Is Knight of the raven "core"?

[CyberThread]

Knight of the raven comes from a book based on greyhawk, does that make it core and open for normal use versus the usual faerun eberron bans?

[Flickerdart]

Core is PHB, DMG, and MM. I am not familiar with any "usual" bans of Faerun or Eberron materials, and believe that banning content based on what book it's from is ridiculous.

[ArcturusV]

Yeah, that's kinda weird for a ban. Though the more reasonable one I've seen has been "No, you cannot have stuff that is from Eberron, Faerun, AND Krynn, etc, one, sure, but not more than one, pick a setting and use that."

But yeah, it's not "core". Core referring to the only 3 books you really need to play, Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual. Anything else is "non-core", including setting books, "Complete ____", "____ Compendium", etc.

[JoshuaZ]

Knight of the raven comes from a book based on greyhawk, does that make it core and open for normal use versus the usual faerun eberron bans?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Core is generally taken to be PG1, PG2, MM and DMG, with some people including XPH, but more because it listed in the SRD than anything else. Knight of the Raven is not in those so it isn't core. Yes, the default setting assumed for some things in core is Greyhawk, but that doesn't make Greyhawk things automatically core.

[Telonius]

Absolutely not core. It's from an adventure module. Honestly I'd think most DMs would be more likely to allow Faerun or Eberron than an adventure module (unless they happen to be running that module).

[Fable Wright]

Core is PHB, DMG, and MM. I am not familiar with any "usual" bans of Faerun or Eberron materials, and believe that banning content based on what book it's from is ridiculous.

A lot of people ban setting specific materials--what sense does a Medici Prophet make in a setting made primarily of underground colonies surrounded by desert and hostile beast-human hybrids? Mostly, these bans aren't used in real life, where you can just ask the DM for approval for a concept, but for internet based games with a pool of applicants, it really cuts down the workload for the DM to make arbitrary bans based on setting-specific books rather than allowing an all-books open OP game if they're not looking for it, or having to look up every single prestige class from the obscure sourcebook, or having to look up and evaluate homebrew. (It's usually accompanied by bans on other sources, as well, not just setting specific, though it can be.) When you have to go through sources with 4 or less people from meatspace? It's acceptable work. When you have to do it with around 10 on the internet, half or more of which you're not going to take into the game anyways? Much less so.

[SaintRidley]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Core is generally taken to be PG1, PG2, MM and DMG, with some people including XPH, but more because it listed in the SRD than anything else. Knight of the Raven is not in those so it isn't core. Yes, the default setting assumed for some things in core is Greyhawk, but that doesn't make Greyhawk things automatically core.

Who takes the PHBII to be core?

[CyberThread]

question answered, ty


/thread

[JoshuaZ]

Who takes the PHBII to be core?

Me when I'm not thinking and it is late at night apparently?

[KillianHawkeye]

A lot of people ban setting specific materials--what sense does a Medici Prophet make in a setting made primarily of underground colonies surrounded by desert and hostile beast-human hybrids? Mostly, these bans aren't used in real life, where you can just ask the DM for approval for a concept, but for internet based games with a pool of applicants, it really cuts down the workload for the DM to make arbitrary bans based on setting-specific books rather than allowing an all-books open OP game if they're not looking for it, or having to look up every single prestige class from the obscure sourcebook, or having to look up and evaluate homebrew. (It's usually accompanied by bans on other sources, as well, not just setting specific, though it can be.) When you have to go through sources with 4 or less people from meatspace? It's acceptable work. When you have to do it with around 10 on the internet, half or more of which you're not going to take into the game anyways? Much less so.

Well personally, I ban content from any setting-specific book if my game is not taking place in that setting. It just makes things easier and it makes the most sense to me.

[Urpriest]

question answered, ty


/thread

Question not answered, actually. What in particular was your misconception about the definition of Core?

[ArcturusV]

Seems he was thinking that since Core details, mostly deities, were borrowed from Greyhawk, that therefore all Greyhawk is core?

[Divide by Zero]

Question not answered, actually. What in particular was your misconception about the definition of Core?

By my understanding, CyberDrag though Core meant Greyhawk material (because it's the default setting) rather than just the PHB/DMG/MM.

[Urpriest]

Seems he was thinking that since Core details, mostly deities, were borrowed from Greyhawk, that therefore all Greyhawk is core?


By my understanding, CyberDrag though Core meant Greyhawk material (because it's the default setting) rather than just the PHB/DMG/MM.

That also applies to most other books, though, especially the setting-neutral ones. I just would rather hear from him about this, since it might be he still has some misconceptions.

[CyberThread]

am a her.....

[Fable Wright]

am a her.....

Given a male avatar and no gender indicator under it, there's no way someone could logically guess that. If you're offended by the assumption, try changing one of the above factors.

[hamishspence]

Wasn't the adventure book Expedition to Castle Ravenloft?

Which has sidebars for use in Eberron and Faerun?

[Vertharrad]

Core is universally accepted as being PHB1, MM1, and DMG1. And DM's can ban pretty much any amount of material they want to. Some ban campaign setting specific material not pertaining to their campaign world.

[KillianHawkeye]

Core is universally accepted as being PHB1, MM1, and DMG1.

Acceptance isn't even an issue here. That is the precise definition of the term. No books other than the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual have the words "Core Rulebook" printed on them.

[Ashtagon]

By my understanding, CyberDrag though Core meant Greyhawk material (because it's the default setting) rather than just the PHB/DMG/MM.

The official core books seem to use "Greyhawk lite" as a default setting. The PHB gods are clearly from Greyhawk, for example. If playing in a campaign that has established deities, most sane GMs switch to using those gods specifically noted as being in that setting.

However, one DMG class is specifically a Forgotten Realms class, and I woudn't allow that in a campaign not taking place in Faerun. Similarly, classes and materials that come from a book that is setting-specific I would generally ban if the campaign is not based in that setting.

ymmv

[CIDE]

The question was answered but the topic of discussion is still a good one. To hopefully avoid derailment and potential divinemod intervention I also made this thread here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15094227#post15094227)

[Evard]

You can add in Unearthed Arcana to the "core" list. Most people I've talked to calls it the 4th core book.

May have something to with being free to use under the OGL though :p

D20srd.org is my core

[KillianHawkeye]

You can add in Unearthed Arcana to the "core" list. Most people I've talked to calls it the 4th core book.

It is not core. Being OGL or part of the SRD does not make it core. Psionics is not core, either.

You are conflating two entirely different things.

[Draz74]

Ironically, aside from the Grayhawk deities, the most blatantly setting-specific material in Core is not from Grayhawk, but from Forgotten Realms. (Red Wizard of Thay.)

Also, Grayhawk actually has a lot of deities besides the ones that became the Core pantheon, so even conflating Grayhawk and Core as far as deities are concerned is an oversimplification.

Out of curiosity, what other Grayhawk classes/PrCs are out there? I didn't know that Knight of the Raven was Grayhawk-based. I know Suel Arcanamach is, and I've heard that the Core Assassin is pretty recognizable as a member of a Grayhawk organization if you've read the books. What else is out there?

[Prime32]

Well personally, I ban content from any setting-specific book if my game is not taking place in that setting. It just makes things easier and it makes the most sense to me.So in a Faerun game you'd ban a feat that gives you +1d6 damage when charging, because its fluff doesn't fit the setting, but a feat that gives you double damage when charging makes perfect sense? :smallconfused:

(Powerful ChargeECS and Headlong RushRoF respectively)

[Khedrac]

I didn't know that Knight of the Raven was Grayhawk-based.
Actually both the original I6 Ravenloft and Expedition to Castle Ravenloft are set in Barovia (I have both) which is very setting neutral - it is not Greyhawk (note the spelling) and Knight of the Raven is tied to Castle Ravenloft.

If it has a setting it is the Domains of Dread to where Barovia was moved in 2nd Ed (along with Azazlin (not sure on spelling) from I10).

As for Greyhawk specific prestige classes - to name a few:
Shining Blade of Heironeous
Radiant Servant of Pelor
Suel Arcanamach
Temple Raider of Olidammara
Fist of Zuoken
Ruby Knight Vindicator

basically anything linked to a core deity defaults to Greyhawk.

[Razanir]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Core is generally taken to be PG1, PG2, MM and DMG, with some people including XPH, but more because it listed in the SRD than anything else. Knight of the Raven is not in those so it isn't core. Yes, the default setting assumed for some things in core is Greyhawk, but that doesn't make Greyhawk things automatically core.


Who takes the PHBII to be core?

Core is strictly PHB, MM and DMG. Add XPH and UA, rename a few spells, and remove squid-thingies and a few other monsters, and you've got the SRD.


am a her.....


Given a male avatar and no gender indicator under it, there's no way someone could logically guess that. If you're offended by the assumption, try changing one of the above factors.

'Tis a law of the internet. Male until proven female. Unless you're on a more stereotypically female forum, people will assume you're a guy unless you have a female avatar and/or indicate female.

[Urpriest]

am a her.....

My apologies. Really should get into the habit of using gender-neutral pronouns more often.

Anyway, the question stands. What was your misconception, and what can we do to address it in the community in future?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Prime32
So in a Faerun game you'd ban a feat that gives you +1d6 damage when charging, because its fluff doesn't fit the setting, but a feat that gives you double damage when charging makes perfect sense?


Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye
Well personally, I ban content from any setting-specific book if my game is not taking place in that setting. It just makes things easier and it makes the most sense to me.

Killian's approach isn't exactly radical; it makes organic sense and, most importantly, makes things easier for him. As a fellow frazzled DM, I can appreciate where he's coming from.

I usually run campaigns in Faerûn, and I definitely don't allow Eberron material wholesale, although some things are allowed on a case-by-case basis. But warforged in Waterdeep? No.

[Phelix-Mu]

Given a male avatar and no gender indicator under it, there's no way someone could logically guess that. If you're offended by the assumption, try changing one of the above factors.

I find assuming something based on no evidence to be a bad habit. And there is little basis for thinking of an avatar as an actual representation of someone's irl appearance. And some people might be justifiably not comfortable with making public their gender in a forum that just anyone can see. Unless you know a person's gender, say "he/she" or some other variation thereof. Efforts to not offend people are usually well worth it.

Knight of the Raven is based on Greyhawk, but Core is not Greyhawk specific, so things that expand on the Greyhawk setting don't get the auto-pass.

[KillianHawkeye]

So in a Faerun game you'd ban a feat that gives you +1d6 damage when charging, because its fluff doesn't fit the setting, but a feat that gives you double damage when charging makes perfect sense? :smallconfused:

(Powerful ChargeECS and Headlong RushRoF respectively)

Actually, I don't run my game in any pre-established setting, so I wouldn't allow either of those. And it's not because they're unbalanced, it's because I never bother to look at any of those books. Keeping track of everything from all the generic books is a big enough job already.

[CyberThread]

My apologies. Really should get into the habit of using gender-neutral pronouns more often.

Anyway, the question stands. What was your misconception, and what can we do to address it in the community in future?


Am good thank you, why I said


/thread

[Ashtagon]

Unless you know a person's gender, say "he/she" or some other variation thereof. Efforts to not offend people are usually well worth it.

Personally, I find "he/she" offensive. It's like saying, "Lol ur so mixed up i can't even tell what u r hUr huR".

The pronoun "he" as a general pronoun for unidentified people has a long history; "they" has a history about as long. But "he/she" is an ugly neologism that should be erased from the history books and declared damnatio memoriae.

[TuggyNE]

Personally, I find "he/she" offensive. It's like saying, "Lol ur so mixed up i can't even tell what u r hUr huR".

The pronoun "he" as a general pronoun for unidentified people has a long history; "they" has a history about as long. But "he/she" is an ugly neologism that should be erased from the history books and declared damnatio memoriae.

I'm inclined to agree with this on aesthetic grounds. English just doesn't have certain pronouns, and that's OK; that can be worked around. But ugly verbiage is a sin that can't be blotted out. :smalltongue:

Also, I only use "hir", "s/he", and so on for cases like :vaarsuvius:, who's definitely in the mixed-up category.

[ArcturusV]

Yeah. I used "He" because of two reasons. One, the general use in English which has effectively gender neutralized the male pronoun to stand in for humanity as a whole...

... and honestly playing the guessing game about if someone might be male or female, trying to read into subtext and come up with a best guess tends to drive me insane. So I usually just go with my gut feeling/first instinct on it. 50/50 shot I'm right, more or less. And a lot less SAN loss.

I am sorry for any insult percieved. It wasn't intended, it was just for the reasons listed above.

[CyberThread]

No insult given, and it is only habitual way to address in the past, due to a patriarchal society, not because you had any mental inclination of the value of assuming that addressing everything as He has any sort of hidden meaning, I would guess.

No big deal really though, we are here to talk about D&D, not gender identity.

[TuggyNE]

So I usually just go with my gut feeling/first instinct on it. 50/50 shot I'm right, more or less.

On this forum it's probably closer to 70/30, no? :smallwink:

[ArcturusV]

Maybe. :smallbiggrin: Haven't checked the demographics. But I've been on other boards where it's more like 10 Male, 90 Female. So it probably averages out all told.

[CyberThread]

Does my new avatar, help clarify things?

[TuggyNE]

Maybe. :smallbiggrin: Haven't checked the demographics. But I've been on other boards where it's more like 10 Male, 90 Female. So it probably averages out all told.

Here it seems to be about 50% undeclared, 40% male, 10% female from the first few dozen pages of the member list. (I know there's male-to-female and female-to-male, but those didn't show up at all so far.)

Switching to sorting by post count descending, it becomes roughly 10%/80%/9%/1%/0% respectively in the first 10 pages.

[Namfuak]

Does my new avatar, help clarify things?

Actually, it implies you are a drag queen, especially with the name. Which would still make you a guy. Though I don't understand the why it matters, on the internet no one knows you are a girl. Or, in my case, a dog :smallwink:

[Thurbane]

Core is generally accepted to mean only the three books marked as "core rule books" i.e. PHB, DMG & MM1 (as previously mentioned).

I have seen many people expand it on a personal/group basis to include everything in the SRD and expanded SRD websites (sections of UA, XPH, ELH, Deities and Demigods etc.)...

I've also heard of people referring to "extended core", which usually means PHB, DMG, MM1 + the "Complete" books. Some people bundle PHB2 and DMG2 in with this.

Anyway, Knight of the Raven is not campaign specific as written, but if it was linked to a particular setting, it would most likely be the Ravenloft setting which was 3rd party as of 3E.

[Gavinfoxx]

Neither PHB II nor the SRD is generally considered 'Core'. Those might be 'Core+', though. And setting specific stuff, or even just 'splatbook' stuff is most certainly not core...

[Ivellius]

So in a Faerun game you'd ban a feat that gives you +1d6 damage when charging, because its fluff doesn't fit the setting, but a feat that gives you double damage when charging makes perfect sense? :smallconfused:

(Powerful ChargeECS and Headlong RushRoF respectively)

Powerful Charge is printed in...Miniatures Handbook, I think? I'd say it's not really setting-specific.

*continuing random non-thread related chatter*

[Eldest]

Does my new avatar, help clarify things?

If you want, you can request an avatar here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243803).

[Karnith]

If you want, you can request an avatar here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243803).
There's also an excellent (if old) guide to making one yourself here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33471), done by ol' (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23784) Lanky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93633) himself (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95189).