Help me create and optimize a melee character?

[Sivarias]

I'm starting a campaign on Tuesday and I wanted to do a Paladin but I'm not digging all the restrictions coupled with having Int as a dump stat (I don't like playing dumb characters).

This is a Heaven vs. Hell campaign and we are restricted to Players handbooks one and two. We are starting at level four and the dm doesn't want any shinanigans so no multiclassing just yet. (he's new) I suck at creating characters that actually do things. I'm playing with a cleric of Obed-Hai, a ten year old sorc whose possessed by a minor demon, an elf melee ranger (who is my wife) and a fighter. I've been thinking about trying to talk the dm into letting me be a scout, (secondary tracker, traps and ranged support), but I'm not sure.

I want to play a bastard son, noble cast off melee combatant whose signiture weapon is a one handed bastard sword. My stats are one 16 two 14s two 12s and a 10. The ten can become a 9 to give me one more stat point.

any class suggestions, optimization suggestions, or the like?

[bobthe6th]

ditch the +1 to damage weapon... not worth it.

PHB offers the duskblade, the actualy good arcane paladin. a bit of refluffing, and you have a good class.

[Frozen_Feet]

Str 16, Dex & Con 14, Wis & Int 12, Cha 10.

Be a human for a bonus feat.

If you're starting at level 2, just going Fighter 2 would not be too bad. One-handed bastard sword is a waste of Exotic Weapon Proficiency, though. Rather, pick up a guisarme, a greatsword and a longbow to use in different situations.

If you can convince your GM to allow UA / SRD material, a Thug fighter might be worth it for the skillpoints. Alternatively, Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 would also be a good start. Use the guisarme and put that free Improved Trip into use.

[Sivarias]

OH!! some things I forgot.

I just wanted to proficiency to not take a penalty for using a bastard sword one handed,

Cantrips are free all the time in his world

Detect magic is now a first level spell to prevent shinanigans.

I'm most likely going to be party leader/party face.

Would a scout fill in the group dynamic a bit better?

Do you think a paladin kind of fits right in to a heaven and hell campaign?

[Divide by Zero]

I just wanted to proficiency to not take a penalty for using a bastard sword one handed,
No you don't. If you want to fight with a one-handed weapon, use a longsword and call it a bastard sword, the damage difference isn't nearly worth a feat.

Do you think a paladin kind of fits right in to a heaven and hell campaign?
That depends, do you want to play paladin the concept or Paladin the class? If you just want the concept, then I'll +1 the Duskblade suggestion. Fluff is mutable.

[Frozen_Feet]

If you really want to be Paladin, rather use the Prestige Paladin variant from the SRD and start off as a Cleric.

A Cleric with War domain (see if you can find a God with Guisarme as a chosen weapon) would do. Wear spiked gauntlets so you can still attack adjacent enemies. Shift around your stats to 14 Con & Str, 12 & Cha Int, 16 Wis, 10 Dex.

[Sivarias]

1st, I can only use Players handbook one and 2,

2nd, a fluff paladin is cool, I just though smite evil / detect evil would come in handy

3rd, assuming duskblade, what feats would you recommend?

[DMVerdandi]

Well, Sevarias, I honestly think that paladin is probably not the best choice when it comes to this. In ALL cases, it is the optimized method to actually use a CLERIC, and not a paladin.

Paladin is to cleric as the Adept is to a wizard. it's WAY behind, and a cleric literally can use a spells to replace every single feature the paladin has and more. Paladin is a HORRIBLE idea when it comes to that.

And since just listening to me is not going to convince you, why don't we explore the class features of the paladin.

1. Aura of good.
With this, any time any evil creature uses detect good on you, they are stunned for a round. WEAK, and not worth the tradeoff of full spellcasting. Not even close. It is COMPLETELY situational.

2.Detect evil
While it could be said it is good for reconissance, a paladin is just as susceptible to being overwhelmed and stunned by an overwhelmingly evil character, and in this setting that seems to be the norm. So in this case, detect evil is a curse, not a boon.

3.Lay on hands.
Paladin can heal at max around 100 points of damage a day.
Meanwhile, a single HEAL spell does that.

4.Turn undead.
Cleric gets it.

5.Spells
HAHAHAH.

6.Mount
Equivalent to Animal companion, except you are going to be riding it almost all the time. Now if you don't want to be a cavalier, but simply a holy warrior, this thing is a drain on resources. Flying is just a better idea, and unless you specifically want to build a charging character, it just becomes a waste of space and focus.

Not to mention what happens when you have to scale a wall with a warhorse?

7. Remove disease.
A cleric spell, ONLY 3 TIMES A WEEK MAX!!! Instead of 4+ times per day.

8. Code of Conduct.
And now you are restricted in your behavior, which does not enhance roleplay, but restricts it.and if you break the code, you lose all of your powers! If it wasn't enough to be a horrible cleric substitute, now you can lose your powers for acting up!

9.BAB and proficiencies.
Divine power replaces BAB completely, and all martial weapons can be gained with a single level dip in fighter, alongside some fighter bonus feats.

10. Smite
+Charisma bonus to attack and +Paladin level to damage
1-5 times a day. Hardly worth giving up spells.



Now, what is the fluff that can be gained from a paladin that makes it different? A heavily armored knight whom is empowered by the powers of nobility and good, and not a deity?

Well, the cleric can do that too. Divine magic does not need to come from a deity, but faith alone. As per deities and demigods, deities barely ever even bestow spells on clerics. 90% of the time the clerics are USING THEIR OWN DIVINE MAGIC.
So take the nobility and good domains, and suddenly, the cleric is a better paladin than the paladin could ever be.


Wanna horse. Phantom steed.
Wanna smite. Use Inflict spells.
Wanna Turn undead. you already can.
Wanna heal people? Do it correctly.
Wanna Be stronger? Buff like no other. Paladin can't even touch "chasing perfection". Oh my god what a buff...



Build suggestion?
Fighter 1/Cleric of war and good 19 (Spontaneous domain casting ACF)

Make the war domain the one you spontaneously cast from, and load up your domain spells with healing just as backups.
War domain spells kick butt, so spontaneously casting them is going to be AWESOME.

As for feats, You can use those fighter feats for exotic weapons.
You said you wanted to wield a bastard sword with one hand? Boom. There you go. Maybe pick up improved initiative with the other one.
Also pick up some metamagic feats. Extend,Smiting, and reach are all really good for clerics.

Now, one thing people often forget when playing clerics is this.
USE MAGIC ITEMS. Divine spell trigger items are way cheaper, and you can get them for domain spells. Look for the spells you don't usually get to cast, and pick up some wands for it.

Need to make money? Cast spells for a cost, and spend it on more magic items.