Int base UMD?

[Yaitanos]

Is there a way to use intelligence instead of charisma for use magic device? Like a feat or magic item?

[Gildedragon]

Outside of house rules. Not that I know of.
Someone will probably correct me with some arcane cheese, but I've looked a fair bit for that.

[b300mussolini]

there is a feat that will let you use appraise instead of spell craft when it comes to identifying magic items which if you know that the item does and is meant to do lessen the check need to activate it for the first time i think

[Sylthia]

I just house rule it to use Int, since that's always made more sense to me. People like sorcerers who can naturally use magic are the exception, not the rule when it comes to humanoids using magic as I understand it, so using your intellect to deduce how the magical device works seems fair.

Are you the DM? Depending on how by the book your DM is, you may be able to convince him to house rule it.

[ddude987]

I would disagree with the your reasoning for int. At least as far as I've always imagined it umd us more about just randomly trying to make it work rather than actually knowing what you are doing. Knowing what you're doing g comes more from not needing the check in the first place. I suppose the argument for wis could be made though, on the basis that your wisdom gives you insight and a good guess how the item is activated

[Chaosvii7]

No, only the beautiful people can activate wands, because they will obviously look the best doing it.

The best thing you could do is take a 4-level dip in Warlock(though I would hardly consider it a dip after that point) for the ability to take 10 on UMD checks, and then get yourself to at least a +10 bonus on the check. Then you could invest in the Magic Device Attunement Feat from Complete Mage, which allows you to use wands you've activated within the last 24 hours without making a check. It does, however, only work with one wand at a time. But if you're toting something big, it will probably be worth it.

Of course, this whole thing assumes you're using it for Spell Trigger items, but it's not THAT big of an assumption, right?

tl;dr, My suggestion is that you look to getting more bang out of your UMD checks so you don't have to do it as much, if you're INT-Based.

[Curmudgeon]

There's no way to do that without a house rule, and I don't think such a rule would be a good idea. You're already getting more skill points from a higher INT, allowing you to raise your Use Magic Device check. Allowing INT to be used as the base attribute for a skill which allows Activate Blindly seems really cheesy to me. :smallannoyed:

[Demorden]

Indeed, UMD has always reminded me of what happens when my pc freezes and I risk to lose hours of work. I start to look very angry and I yell at my pc, trying very hard to intimidate it.


you'd better run smooth, OR ELSE! :smallfurious:

When it works again, it is clearly because I successfully imposed my force of personality on it.

So UMD basically is something like:


come oooon... work! WORK! abracadabra! work! how on earth is this #@^?"!** supposed to work?! :smallmad:

Whispers: Ok you damn wand, this is an ultimatum: work or I'll lend you to the dwarven fighter to scratch his bottom!
:smallamused:
...

AMAZING! LOOK GUYS, I MADE IT WORK! :smallcool:

So why study an item carefully, when desperate need and a strong personality clearly do the job?

Really, a feat for UMD on INT is needed. Badly.
From a roleplaying point of view at least.:smallbiggrin:

[Sylthia]

A feat seems reasonable to be. (Even though I houserule it.) You could also let people take the greater of the two modifies, since there is more than one way to skin the magical cat.

[Vertharrad]

The way I understand UMD is your tricking/convincing the item you can activate it, not you have the knowledge to activate it. Normally you need to have the spell on your spell list to actually activate the wand.

[Divide by Zero]

Factotum can add their Int to any skill check 1/day, though if you have a really low Cha you'll still take the penalty.

[CIDE]

I'm...seriously failing to see how presence or an aura or how good you look ties into the usage of a magic item... I really don't. Charisma doesn't even work for that "luck" aspect.

I simply call bull**** for Cha based UMD.

[Gildedragon]

Factotum can add their Int to any skill check 1/day, though if you have a really low Cha you'll still take the penalty.

not int, their factotum level

[Duke of Urrel]

I thank Demorden for that vivid illustration of the role that Charisma plays in making a magic item work...!

However, in all likelihood, if you invest seriously in Use Magic Device skill, eventually Charisma will no longer be the greater part of it. Mostly, gaining Use Magic Device skill means studying magic items and how they work, and adding ranks in this skill, as in any other skill, is a function of your class and your Intelligence. So although Use Magic Device is based upon Charisma, it is developed by Intelligence and experience. If you're a low-level bard or rogue with a lot of personal charm, your success in activating magic items may be due mostly to luck, bravado, and play-acting, but if you're a high-level character with many ranks in Use Magic Device skill, your success proves that you've done your homework and know how to make educated guesses.

[Ramza00]

Is there a way to use intelligence instead of charisma for use magic device? Like a feat or magic item?
Is your int bonus that much higher than your charisma bonus that using int would be better +4 bonus to umd as well as spellcraft and decipher script that mage spectales provide? Mage Spectales are a soulmeld which you get via the feat shape soulmeld which only requires con 13.

If your int is already 20 or higher you are probably playing a spellcaster and can use the umd boosting spells to boost it higher.

What are you trying to do for I don't really understand your problem so it is hard to provide a solution?

[tadkins]

No, only the beautiful people can activate wands, because they will obviously look the best doing it.



I always thought Charisma wasn't about beauty so much as a force of personality. Which makes sense for UMD, since you're essentially forcing the magic item to do what it does through sheer will.

It's how people from even ugly races like orcs and ogres can have high charisma.

[CIDE]

So magic items are dates you're trying to get drunk with your personality...?

I still don't see it.

[galan]

So magic items are dates you're trying to get drunk with your personality...?

I still don't see it.

you can use a feat to gain cha bonus to your will save. so for the right people (who took ranks in UMD), their cha means more then social skills. and i think it makes sense if you stop looking at cha as "my bluff\Diplomacy bonus"

[Yaitanos]

Whew buddy this conversation is quickly devolving. So I'd like to put a stop to the arguments forming and clarify a few things.
Charisma is used for Use Magic device since it convincing the magic item to work, coercing it to work through sheer will. A strong personality will have an easier time doing so with a person, than a person with a weak one. It's like diplomacy for magic items. However, the idea is for a warforged artificer, so being able to change out the stat used to int instead would make life a lot simpler. Especially since the campaign is going to be a skill heavy one instead of combat.

[Zaq]

I view it as tricking the item, just as much as "convincing it through sheer will."

[Lapak]

So magic items are dates you're trying to get drunk with your personality...?

I still don't see it.Let me re-contextualize it, then: the most famous use of Use Magic Device is undoubtedly people's attempt to control the One Ring of Power. (And Sauron's highest stat was almost certainly CHA, for a large number of reasons.)

Don't think of getting a magic item to work as tricking it or getting it to like you; you're replacing 'knowing how it actually works' with raw force of will. You're not figuring out how to make it go, you are just MAKING it go. Instead of knowing the command word to activate a wand, you are focusing the iron-edged focus of your mind upon it and binding it to your will. When picking up a magic item that normally is attuned only to those who serve a divine power, you bear down upon the enchantment with your sense of self and force the attunement anyway, warping the metaphysical shape of the enchantment with the weight of your determination.

Practicing makes that easier, which is why skill points help, but all you're doing is training yourself to practice of overriding magical fields with will alone - and having a good, forceful will in the first place helps a lot.