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Leliel
2013-04-15, 03:03 PM
Anyway, I decided to ask this here, since we have a lot of intelligent superhero fans here.

Basically, I am writing a story in which the main protagonists are a bunch of supervillains (Masks, in the world's terminology, while Capes are superheroes). They aren't really evil, in that they don't enjoy causing pain or bloodshed, but they are very much proud of the chaos they cause and are rather selfish, looking to use their power to line their pockets and gain worldwide acclaim (this is also a world where both Masks and Capes are celebrities, and a sufficiently likable, powerful, and intelligent Mask can gather quite the fanclub, especially if they're striking against people the general public dislikes).

Of course, it turns out the Capes who live in Hyperion City, the main setting, have been largely corrupted into nothing more than hypocritical, arrogant, shiny bullies who only get away with it because the public is blinded by the fame. I want to show, however, that there is something to redeem in Hyperion's Capes, and that the spreading rot in the city hasn't killed its better nature yet.

Even better, I plan to initially present him as comic relief-more of an irritation the protagonists, the Midnight Crew, regard as a ferocious puppy-more cute and annoying, than anything, and in fact his cuteness is why the Masks haven't killed him-it feels like kicking a baby.

So, partially reposted from TV Tropes, I give you....BEAGLEMAN!

Beagleman, HOUND OF JUSTICE!!! aka Marion Poindexter

Age: 19

Personality: First, watch Ben 10 and then imagine Ben with Superman's morals. That is Beagleman's personality in a nutshell-he's basically every idealistic "naive fanboy turned superhero" stereotype known to man, and is quite cheerfully mocked by the main characters for that fact. A kind-hearted idiot and fearless fool due to his near-invulnerability (the Fearless Fool bit, the Idiot Hero bit is all him) powers, Beagleman is the living embodiment of Silver Age cheese combined with the archetypal shonen manga protagonist. He is also rather gullible, regularly falling for faked injuries and obvious traps, no matter how many people spring them on him. This is actually one of the reasons he's survived so long and has managed to earn Hyperion City's respect despite being a complete doofus; most Masks, being largely not malevolent outside their jobs, can't bring themselves to really hurt him; it's like kicking a puppy.

Relatively early in the story, however, he becomes infected by Pathos, a substance created from the grudges and anger of the dead seeping into the Nether, the realm of ghosts. This causes him to become progressively Darker and Edgier as it feeds on his own understanding of his failures as a Cape. At the nadir, he becomes a shallow nineties anti-hero character (you know, a two-dimensional badass with nothing really likable about him) with Youngblood's disease (the perpetual squint they often have), and his complete swerve from his previous self freaks out our actual protagonists. Thankfully, Phantasmic and company are also rather honorable and have come to regard him as their favorite enemy, and beat the Pathos out of him, causing him to return to his normal, cheery, personality, after a brief freak out due to the horrific experience of being corrupted. Of course, this goes from heartwarming to annoying when his misunderstand of the story's genre kicks in and immediately assumes that this is a set up for Phantasmic's redemption and begins treating her team like best buds. Whether or not he's right is something I haven't decided.


Abilities: As mentioned by the personality write-up, he's a Flying Brick (super strength with flight) who is nearly impossible to injure, and literally develops new superpowers as the plot demands as one of his abilities (another reason why Masks try to avoid hurting him-fighting him is unpredictable enough to be entertaining). He's also a poster child for not giving up or emotionally breaking par excellence, and can neutralize magic thrown directly at him (very useful ability to have in what is essentially a modern high fantasy setting with a comic book coating and themes). Also, his sense of smell is massively amplified, which is how he got his name.

During his Pathos infection, he also gains no small amount of skill with a gun and some very lethal powers as well, which is part of the reason Pathos!Beagleman calls himself Deathbringer Bloodhound.

That, and he's actually not nearly as stupid as it appears-he's actually quite intelligent and perceptive, it's just that he doesn't really want the fame, he wants to make the world better. Thus, he does a bunch of deliberately dumb actions to make himself seen as the Tick rather than Nanoha, since he realizes he'd be in a rather precarious position if people realized there's a mind behind his sheer power and decided to take him out before he became a threat.

Weaknesses: As mentioned, he's also a complete moron, due to his inability to realize what story he is actually in (one of his first scenes is when he automatically assumes the Big Red Button he found at the end of the long hallway of minion robots is the self-destruct...when it's the escape antigrav, and this is in a verse where you need to show you don't make Bond villain errors in order to be officially accepted as a supervillain, and everybody knows this). He also has no freaking idea of how any of his new powers beyond the normal ones work, and he loses them soon enough (though it could be he forgets they exist), and everybody knows he's immune to direct magic, so they use magic for environmental attacks. His Nigh Invulnerable nature makes it so that a lot of it only stuns him, but he's also weak to his own powers and bad smells. Thus, fighting him is really more of a test to see how long it takes before he develops a power that thrown back at him or is identical to his opponent's own. More than once he's also been knocked out by tricking him into the men's locker room or a sewer.

During his corruption, he becomes a lot more lethal, but he's still just as daft, if not more so due to his real personality fighting back. What's more, Bloodhound can't fly (because honestly, what Nineties Anti-Hero does?), and has a hard time seeing due to his squint. He can also be tricked into a soliloquy on his "tragic past", despite he not actually having one at all, and is in fact normally one of the most chipper and cheerful characters in the story (thus a lot of his "tragic past" involves amnesia; "You think you're a tragedy!? Let me tell you about my...Army buddies? Girlfriend? Parents?....well, thanks to my near death experience that I must have had, I can't even remember what relation they were."

In reality, he's smart, but he's psychologically incapable of breaking his own moral code, and very underconfident in his own abilities due to them backfiring in the worst way during his early years. Thus, he's tried to become a quiet moral example, but he's not very good at getting people to follow his idealism.

Backstory: Marion Poindexter was originally a very normal teenager living in Hyperion City, with Good Parents (I'm not editing this because they are so rare they deserve caps), not particular popularity but not hated, an average amount of friends...statistically speaking, the only think notable about him was the lack of anything notable, not even his grades (he was a B student, in case you were wondering-he's a space cadet, honorable beyond all reason variety of dumb, not a complete idiot incapable of learning even the most basic info). Personality-wise, he was as notable as anyone else-perhaps a bit hyperactive for his own good, perhaps a bit obsessed with the adventures of the various Capes and Masks in his world, but nothing special.

And then he, through a series of events that, to this day, he cannot get straight (the haze of memories involve driving while drunk, a magical idol of Set, a dimensional portal to the Nether, playing fetch with Ammut, and the three-time winner of the Mister Hyperion male beauty contest, and only start getting clear when he woke up next to a very embarrassed Hathor), he found himself becoming the "Dog of Duat", Anubis' hand to enforce justice on Earth. He then immediately went to Anansi to take away his more threatening death powers, on the basis that in fiction and generally in his world, death powers are not associated with Capes, and he wanted to be a Cape (which is why Anubis will not speak to him unless he really has to: nobody likes being snubbed like that). Of course, Anansi, being a trickster archetype obsessed with making interesting (read: hilarious) stories, proceeded to play "exact wording" and grant Marion's wish of "make me more like a classic superhero" by making him exactly like the cheesy aspects. Beagleman, for his part, is okay with this, seeing as how his new Flying Brick powers have saved his bacon on more than one occasion, and made him one of the more popular capes (he doesn't seem to realize that it's because of the sympathy vote and the citizenry find him hilarious).

Of course, there's a rather large difference between "doesn't seem", and "is not", and behind closed doors, he's actually aware of how much of a screw-up he is and how frequently his misreading of the plot and honor beyond all reason gets the better of him. Because he is genuinely that much of a boy scout, however, this never really progresses beyond moments of self-doubt, but unlike the typical moments of superhero self-doubt, Beagleman has some pretty awful friends. See, the larger team of which he is a part, the Peacebringers, has long since succumbed to internal corruption due to arrogance and increasingly insane morals, thanks at least in part to their Batman expy, Noir (basically, imagine what would happen if Crazy Steve-Batman as in he appears in All-Star Batman and Robin-was a secret crime lord on the side, wanted to create a utopia by any means needed and owned a PR Firm). Beagleman has the misfortune of being the sole morally pure who hasn't been blackmailed into playing along, both because he's never made a mistake that, with Noir's propaganda, can be turned into a way to ruin his life and he manifests some pretty unbeatable powers to defeat anybody who threatens his loved ones (and angers him enough so he doesn't play around).

This doesn't sit well with Noir, who, getting increasingly fed up with Beagleman fouling up his false flag ops to take control of Hyperion (the Hyperion police department is neither corrupt or incompetent, and Beagleman is an excellent distraction for them to sneak up and nab supervillains and crooks), so he gets Omegaette (looks like female Robin, thinks like Ender Wiggin thanks to Noir's manipulations) to infect Beagleman with Pathos while the latter has a self-doubt session after the utter failure of one of his missions (sabotaged by Noir, of course). Noir hopes that, as the Pathos slowly causes Beagleman to twist into a dark version of himself, he'll turn into a useful tool.

And after that is where our story begins.

So, any comments? Constructive criticism?

EDIT: Edited out the jargon I could and defined the stuff I couldn't without making it unwieldy.

bradstphns
2013-04-16, 02:33 AM
Basically, I am writing a story in which the main protagonists are a bunch of supervillains (Masks, in the world's terminology, while Capes are superheroes). They aren't really evil, in that they don't enjoy causing pain or bloodshed, but they are very much proud of the chaos they cause and are rather selfish, looking to use their power to line their pockets and gain worldwide acclaim (this is also a world where both Masks and Capes are celebrities, and a sufficiently likable, powerful, and intelligent Mask can gather quite the fanclub, especially if they're striking against people the general public dislikes).

Your villain characters really seem interesting, very much different...

Hyena
2013-04-16, 03:02 AM
So... Think Doctor Horrible?

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-04-16, 08:21 AM
So... Think Doctor Horrible?
Sounds like.

endoperez
2013-04-16, 10:03 AM
That's an interesting premise.


Are you familiar with "Soon I Shall Be Invincible"? In it, the villain is actually crazy and evil, and you still can't but feel sorry for him.

It also has a fantastic scene where a pretty nifty fight is told from the heroes' perspective, and the villains' perspective. Lots of tricks on both sides, many of the tricks countered in some way, and all in all it was quite confusing. The heroes think the villain had it all planned out, and did it all on purpose. The villain wonder how the heroes found him, and thinks he's lucky to have gotten away.

Calemyr
2013-04-16, 10:11 AM
Have you ever seen an anime called "S-cry-ed"? Because your idea sounds like the two main characters as they are at the beginning of that anime:

Kazuma (the main character): Layabout and mercenary who grew up in the slums. Exceedingly individualistic and believes in self definition, and rebels against the extremely regimented city. Feels people should learn to stand on their own two feet rather than being told what to do.

Ryuhou (Kazuma's rival): Rich kid from inside the city. Lost his mother to violence, so has devoted his entire life since to upholding peace and justice - generally by brutally decimating threats to that peace and justice. Dismisses Kazuma as gutter trash and does not consider any merit to his perspective.

The key thing is that both sides are not "wrong", per se. There is merit to both ideals, the ideals are just not compatible.

Another would be Firefly. Given that the protagonists in that show are against the Alliance, we don't see much good about primary government, but there are more than a few suggestions that they really do a lot for the people under their care and think they're doing good for the "backward" rim worlds as well. The problem is that the ideals of the rim worlds are not compatible with those held by the Alliance.

It's basically a conflict between freedom and safety. Freedom is in many ways the opposite of safety, because the freedom means you can do the wrong thing as well as the right thing. The more effort you put into making things safe, the more freedoms you take away. As a result, it becomes a balancing act between the two opposing ideals, and everyone has a different perspective. You can have good people on both sides of that spectrum, only to find that their ideals are irreconcilable.

Edit: Another ideals conflict that always interested me is the one presented in the anime Trigun: whether it is moral to kill to protect the innocent, or, as they put it, whether it is right to "kill the spider to save the butterfly". The main character, Vash, is so against killing that he goes to obscene lengths to save people without killing his enemies - a goal that has forced him to hone his skills as a gunfighter to superhuman levels and has left his body riddled with scars he has taken as a cost for pulling his punches. In the end, however, this puts him at odds with even other good people who don't agree with his beliefs and can't stand his disapproval when they do what he won't.

Olinser
2013-04-16, 11:57 AM
Anyway, I decided to ask this here, since we have a lot of intelligent superhero fans here.

Basically, I am writing a story in which the main protagonists are a bunch of supervillains (Masks, in the world's terminology, while Capes are superheroes). They aren't really evil, in that they don't enjoy causing pain or bloodshed, but they are very much proud of the chaos they cause and are rather selfish, looking to use their power to line their pockets and gain worldwide acclaim (this is also a world where both Masks and Capes are celebrities, and a sufficiently likable, powerful, and intelligent Mask can gather quite the fanclub, especially if they're striking against people the general public dislikes).

Of course, it turns out the Capes who live in Hyperion City, the main setting, have been largely corrupted into nothing more than hypocritical, arrogant, shiny bullies who only get away with it because the public is blinded by the fame. I want to show, however, that there is something to redeem in Hyperion's Capes, and that the spreading rot in the city hasn't killed its better nature yet.

Even better, I plan to initially present him as comic relief-more of an irritation the protagonists, the Midnight Crew, regard as a ferocious puppy-more cute and annoying, than anything, and in fact his cuteness is why the Masks haven't killed him-it feels like kicking a baby.

So, partially reposted from TV Tropes, I give you....BEAGLEMAN!

Beagleman, HOUND OF JUSTICE!!! aka Marion Poindexter

Age: 19

Personality: First, watch Ben 10 and then imagine Ben with Superman's morals. That is Beagleman's personality in a nutshell-he's basically every idealistic "naive fanboy turned superhero" stereotype known to man, and is quite cheerfully mocked by the main characters for that fact. A kind-hearted idiot and fearless fool due to his near-invulnerability (the Fearless Fool bit, the Idiot Hero bit is all him) powers, Beagleman is the living embodiment of Silver Age cheese combined with the archetypal shonen manga protagonist. He is also rather gullible, regularly falling for faked injuries and obvious traps, no matter how many people spring them on him. This is actually one of the reasons he's survived so long and has managed to earn Hyperion City's respect despite being a complete doofus; most Masks, being largely not malevolent outside their jobs, can't bring themselves to really hurt him; it's like kicking a puppy.

Relatively early in the story, however, he becomes infected by Pathos, a substance created from the grudges and anger of the dead seeping into the Nether, the realm of ghosts. This causes him to become progressively Darker and Edgier as it feeds on his own understanding of his failures as a Cape. At the nadir, he becomes a shallow Nineties Anti-Hero with Youngblood's disease, and his complete swerve from his previous self freaks out our actual protagonists. Thankfully, Phantasmic and company are also rather honorable and have come to regard him as their favorite enemy, and beat the Pathos out of him, causing him to return to his normal, cheery, personality, after a brief freak out due to the horrific experience of being corrupted. Of course, this goes from heartwarming to annoying when his misunderstand of the story's genre kicks in and immediately assumes that this is a set up for Phantasmic's redemption and begins treating her team like best buds. Whether or not he's right is something I haven't decided.


Abilities: As mentioned by the personality write-up, he's a Flying Brick who is Nigh Invulnerable, and literally develops new superpowers as the plot demands as one of his abilities (another reason why Masks try to avoid hurting him-fighting him is unpredictable enough to be entertaining). He's also a poster child for not giving up or emotionally breaking par excellence, and can neutralize magic thrown directly at him (very useful ability to have in an Urban Fantasy setting). Also, his sense of smell is massively amplified, which is how he got his name.

During his Pathos infection, he also gains no small amount of skill with a gun and some very lethal powers as well, which is part of the reason Pathos!Beagleman calls himself Deathbringer Bloodhound.

That, and he's actually not nearly as stupid as it appears-he's actually quite intelligent and perceptive, it's just that he doesn't really want the fame, he wants to make the world better. Thus, he does a bunch of deliberately dumb actions to make himself seen as the Tick rather than Nanoha, since he realizes he'd be in a rather precarious position if people realized there's a mind behind his sheer power and decided to take him out before he became a threat.

Weaknesses: As mentioned, he's also a complete moron, due to his utter Wrong Genre Savvy (one of his first scenes is when he automatically assumes the Big Red Button he found at the end of the long hallway of minion robots is the self-destruct...when it's the escape antigrav, and this is in a verse where you need to show you don't make Bond villain errors in order to be officially accepted as a supervillain, and everybody knows this). He also has no freaking idea of how any of his new powers beyond the normal ones work, and he loses them soon enough (though it could be he forgets they exist), and everybody knows he's immune to direct magic, so they use magic for environmental attacks. His Nigh Invulnerable nature makes it so that a lot of it only stuns him, but he's also weak to his own powers and bad smells. Thus, fighting him is really more of a test to see how long it takes before he develops a power that thrown back at him or is identical to his opponent's own. More than once he's also been knocked out by tricking him into the men's locker room or a sewer.

During his corruption, he becomes a lot more lethal, but he's still just as daft, if not more so due to his real personality fighting back. What's more, Bloodhound can't fly (because honestly, what Nineties Anti-Hero does?), and has a hard time seeing due to his squint. He can also be tricked into a soliloquy on his "tragic past", despite he not actually having one at all, and is in fact normally one of the most chipper and cheerful characters in the story (thus a lot of his "tragic past" involves amnesia; "You think you're a tragedy!? Let me tell you about my...Army buddies? Girlfriend? Parents?....well, thanks to my near death experience that I must have had, I can't even remember what relation they were."

In reality, he's smart, but he's psychologically incapable of breaking his own moral code, and very underconfident in his own abilities due to them backfiring in the worst way during his early years. Thus, he's tried to become a quiet moral example, but he's not very good at getting people to follow his idealism.

Backstory: Marion Poindexter was originally a very normal teenager living in Hyperion City, with Good Parents, not particular popularity but not hated, an average amount of friends...statistically speaking, the only think notable about him was the lack of anything notable, not even his grades (he was a B student, in case you were wondering-he's a space cadet, honorable beyond all reason variety of dumb, not a complete idiot incapable of learning even the most basic info). Personality-wise, he was as notable as anyone else-perhaps a bit hyperactive for his own good, perhaps a bit obsessed with the adventures of the various Capes and Masks in his world, but nothing special.

And then he, through a series of events that, to this day, he cannot get straight (the haze of memories involve driving while drunk, a magical idol of Set, a dimensional portal to the Nether, playing fetch with Ammut, and the three-time winner of the Mister Hyperion male beauty contest, and only start getting clear when he woke up next to a very embarrassed Hathor), he found himself becoming the "Dog of Duat", Anubis' hand to enforce justice on Earth. He then immediately went to Anansi to take away his more threatening death powers, on the basis that in fiction and generally in his world, death powers are not associated with Capes, and he wanted to be a Cape (which is why Anubis will not speak to him unless he really has to: nobody likes being snubbed like that). Of course, Anansi, being a trickster archetype obsessed with making interesting (read: hilarious) stories, proceeded to play Literal Genie and grant Marion's wish of "make me more like a classic superhero" by making him exactly like the cheesy aspects. Beagleman, for his part, is okay with this, seeing as how his new Flying Brick powers have saved his bacon on more than one occasion, and made him one of the more popular capes (he doesn't seem to realize that it's because of the sympathy vote and the citizenry find him hilarious).

Of course, there's a rather large difference between "doesn't seem", and "is not", and behind closed doors, he's actually aware of how much of a screw-up he is and how frequently his Wrong Genre Savvy gets the better of him. Because he is genuinely that much of a boy scout, however, this never really progresses beyond moments of self-doubt, but unlike the typical moments of superhero self-doubt, Beagleman has some pretty awful friends. See, the larger team of which he is a part, the Peacebringers, has long since succumbed to internal corruption due to arrogance and increasingly insane morals, thanks at least in part to their Batman expy, Noir (basically, imagine what would happen if Crazy Steve-Batman as in he appears in All-Star Batman and Robin-was a secret crime lord on the side, wanted to create a utopia by any means needed and owned a PR Firm). Beagleman has the misfortune of being the sole morally pure who hasn't been blackmailed into playing along, both because he's never made a mistake that, with Noir's propaganda, can be turned into a way to ruin his life and he manifests some pretty unbeatable powers to defeat anybody who threatens his loved ones (and angers him enough so he doesn't play around).

This doesn't sit well with Noir, who, getting increasingly fed up with Beagleman fouling up his false flag ops to take control of Hyperion (the Hyperion police department is neither corrupt or incompetent, and Beagleman is an excellent distraction for them to sneak up and nab supervillains and crooks), so he gets Omegaette (looks like female Robin, thinks like Ender Wiggin thanks to Noir's manipulations) to infect Beagleman with Pathos while the latter has a self-doubt session after the utter failure of one of his missions (sabotaged by Noir, of course). Noir hopes that, as the Pathos slowly causes Beagleman to twist into a dark version of himself, he'll turn into a useful tool.

And after that is where our story begins.

So, any comments? Constructive criticism?

You know, that sounds an awful lot like Dr. Horrible (with Nathan Fillion and NPH). (Full name is Dr Horrible's Sing Along Blog).

You should watch it if you haven't, it sounds very similar to what you're describing, where the 'hero' really isn't much more than a bully with good publicity, and the 'villain', is really a wannabe that dreams of the big leagues but doesn't actually have the evilness to pull off a serious crime.

Can be viewed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVBjS22ppdw

snoopy13a
2013-04-16, 12:24 PM
You used quite a bit of jargon in your summary. I realize it is only a summary of a character concept, not the actual story. However, when you write the story, make sure you avoid all jargon.

Kitten Champion
2013-04-16, 12:49 PM
Less genre savvy in concept, but it's similar to the ongoing manga Ratman (http://ratman.wikia.com/wiki/Manga). Who's protagonist wants to be a hero more than anything, that the promise of obtaining super-powers leads him inexorably into becoming the designated villain in the world. The heroes he worshipped are mostly selfish corporately-owned douche bags who are more about appearing good for a camera than being good. He still wants to be a hero, but he's more prone to spreading misunderstanding, fear, and getting attacked by said heroes.

endoperez
2013-04-16, 04:38 PM
Ooh, I just remembered another possible inspiration! Angel Densetsu is a manga about a naive good guy looking scary, getting into a confusing situation, and the other guys surrendering, tripping over, running away etc because he looks scary.

...


We're not actually helping by posting all of these things you should read, are we? :smallbiggrin:

Leliel
2013-04-16, 05:58 PM
Ooh, I just remembered another possible inspiration! Angel Densetsu is a manga about a naive good guy looking scary, getting into a confusing situation, and the other guys surrendering, tripping over, running away etc because he looks scary.

...


We're not actually helping by posting all of these things you should read, are we? :smallbiggrin:

Not really, no.

And this guy's not actually a main protagonist, but a starter antagonist

and later mole in the Peacebringers.

He never actually ceases being a Cape, and part of the point of his character is that he's one of the only really heroic superheroes in all of Hyperion City.

GoblinArchmage
2013-04-16, 06:40 PM
You used quite a bit of jargon in your summary. I realize it is only a summary of a character concept, not the actual story. However, when you write the story, make sure you avoid all jargon.

Especially TV Tropes jargon. I would recommend describing your characters in your own idiosyncratic way, not using shorthand from a silly internet site.

Edit: Having said that, it sounds like you have an interesting character, but it's difficult to give feedback on what is basically an outline to your story. Don't get me wrong, outlining can be a very important and useful step in the creative process, but it's hard to say what works and what doesn't work without an actual story to read. Keep up the good work, though.

Leliel
2013-04-16, 07:05 PM
Especially TV Tropes jargon. I would recommend describing your characters in your own idiosyncratic way, not using shorthand from a silly internet site.

Yeah, sorry. Didn't catch all that. I also posted this to That Guy With The Glasses, where they know some of that jargon from other sources. Flying Brick, for instance.

I'll edit it out.

Shyftir
2013-04-16, 07:23 PM
Most of the jargon you used is pretty common to superhero fandom in general. TvTropes got that stuff from somewhere after all.

Dr.Epic
2013-04-16, 07:29 PM
Making An Antagonist Superhero Who Is Actually a Hero? Well, this guy comes to mind:

Seriously, major spoilers ahead! Do not continue unless you've read Watchmen.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Ozymandiascomics.jpg

Metahuman1
2013-04-16, 11:13 PM
Best way I see this working?

He becomes disenchanted with the Capes. Then something really, really, REALLY big and bad happens. Think Something Superman or Dr. Strange level attacking the city, and it has zero compulsions about killing, and enjoy's inflicting pain and misery and death along with the rest of what it does.

And the Capes are sitting it out because they don't want to loose on camera, claiming emergency's that aren't really there so they have somewhere else to be.

And the Masks are sitting it out because there's no payday and it's not there fight.

And then Bagel Man shows up, and tries to solo this guy, and starts getting his ass kicked cause this is the guy that LIKES kicking puppys. But he won't stay down, not only that, he's giving people time to get away by sucking up the hits and keeping this thing talking.

Now, from here, three possible roads.

Option 1: He survives, he wins, and he knows why everyone was sitting it out, and he publicly calls them on it while he can barely stand (If he can stand at all.) And it shames most of the capes enough that they start to fly right afterwords. And the same, in an ironic twist, goes for a lot of the masks.

Option 2: He survives because the superhuman community finally hits a point in watching him get savaged by the new bad guy that they say "Enough." and go out to fight. Kinda like the neighborhood kids all rallying against the new bully on the block, en-mass, because the new bully made the mistake of kicking everyone's favorite puppy like he meant it and trying to go for a second and third hit.

Bagel man doesn't know why they took so long, but he's glade they came. And after the fight, he just says when asked why he kept getting up that it was the right thing to do. And this, between guilt and dazzling awe, leads to an epiphany among most of the capes and masks that they've been doing it wrong. Which leads to changes for the better.

Option 3: They do nothing, they sit back, and he finally get's beaten to death. And that's when a portion of the Capes, and most of the Masks if not all of them, goes out to take this guy down, for no other reason then after killing Bagelman, they cannot suffer him to be the winner. And afterwords, the changes happen, the Masks start flying straighter, doing things that don't always have a payday, and some of the capes start to do it the way they did once, back when they were all new at it. Of course you've still got people on both sides too far gone, but the majority are galvanized by seeing Bagel Man give his life for the Ideals of a super hero, and this ends up leading them to save themselves at it were, from themselves.

Leliel
2013-04-18, 09:35 PM
Good idea.

Although not Dr. Strange level-our Shuma-Gorath expy is the Goddess of Not-Evil-But-Still-Not-A-Particularly-Nice-Entity-Okay-She-Is-But-It's-A-Very-Alien-And-Strange-Definition-And-She's-Still-Lovecraftian that ultimately sponsors many of the Masks.

She doesn't control them, being an omnibenevolent maternal entity and all, but they still call on her power whenever they have the resources and need help only a sapient cosmic force of pure entropy and raw creation can grant.

The Glyphstone
2013-04-18, 10:05 PM
Dr. Strange-level doesn't necessarily mean a Dr. Strange expy, just someone/thing on his raw level of power. A Darkseid or a Doomsday grade threat.

turkishproverb
2013-04-18, 10:28 PM
Sympathy for one but not for the other is probably key here. make the hero a bit of a jerk, but still a hero.

Fjolnir
2013-04-18, 10:46 PM
You want the group of villians to have goals that seem "Noble" though the methods they use are anything but, have a scene where there is a stereotypical racist mask causing havok and show beagleman and some of the more or less "nice" masks coming to stop him, for example. There needs to be a reason besides his partial face/heel turn that we root for the masks over the young cape.

Fiery Diamond
2013-04-19, 12:15 AM
This sounds really awesome. I also would like to know more about the briefly-mentioned protagonists. Please actually write this so I can read it!:smallbiggrin:

Leliel
2013-04-19, 11:56 AM
This sounds really awesome. I also would like to know more about the briefly-mentioned protagonists. Please actually write this so I can read it!:smallbiggrin:

Well, that's the problem. I'm in the very early stages of it, the brainstorming. I'm still ironing out metaphysical kinks.

The protagonists, the Midnight Crew, however, are my love letter to everything World of Darkness, with each member being made in the image of one of the gamelines. Phantasmic, for example, is a mage (more Awakening than Ascension, but one could argue that she would be a classic Euthanatos, albeit one with an unusual fascination with Spirit), Count Strige is a vampire (literally, though he's actually a Roman variety-a literal strige, one of the owls who feed on victims of war), etc.

All of them have a fundamental twist on the archetypes to them, however-Dr. Thrope, our werewolf, is actually a brilliant biochemist who induced her pseudo-lycanthropy (her powers come from a salve she rediscovered, and she needs regular doses to shapeshift-it's not a natural power or a disease) as a way to finally release herself from the restrictive gender roles and timidity her mother instilled her with (ergo letting out the beast locked away by civilization and returning to a primal state), for example. I want to show how each of them is emblematic of a fundamentally human trait despite apparent inhumanity; the balance between superego and id (Dr. Thrope), the allure and dangers of having power (Strige), the mentality of survivalists (Wildfire, our Hunter expy), religious faith (Bhuta, the ghost animating his own corpse-though he's really of a Specter, albeit a cute and cuddly one), and what one will do to see dreams realized (Phantasmic).

Thus, one of the many ironies-the inhuman Midnight Squad, monsters all, are infinitely more human than many of the "human, only with superpowers" Capes.

Leliel
2013-04-19, 02:37 PM
Also, said Shuma-Gorath expy who patrons them? Grandmother Void, embodiment of Entropy and the primal universe?

Her defining emotion is maternal love, to the point where she tends to accidentally woo people over to her side when easing their pain after their despair calls her. Being exposed to the mind-bending compassion she embodies, her desire to see the world reborn better than before after it dies on its own time, and the fact that she will always be there for you no matter what happens or what you do. Knowing that she's a patron of supervillains tends to generate good feelings towards said supervillains.

(if you're wondering why she patrons Masks, let me put it this way-she loves everything, including the wicked, ugly, and corrupt. In fact it could be said she loves the wicked, ugly, and corrupt most of all, because who else other than Void is there to love them?)

Brewdude
2013-04-19, 03:29 PM
You should watch "tiger and bunny" on hulu or crunchyroll and compare.

turkishproverb
2013-04-19, 06:25 PM
You should watch "tiger and bunny" on hulu or crunchyroll and compare.

Yes. Not even to compare. Just watch it. Everyone should. Everyone.

Metahuman1
2013-04-21, 01:31 PM
Dr. Strange-level doesn't necessarily mean a Dr. Strange expy, just someone/thing on his raw level of power. A Darkseid or a Doomsday grade threat.

Yes, or to use some Marvel Examples, Something on Par with the Emperor Doom version of Dr. Doom/ Thanos when he posses the Infinity Gauntlet/Cosmic Cube/ or Galactus.

Not them exactly, not even necessarily there actual powers or copy's, just something where your sitting there going "If my guy ever had to throw down with *Which ever character you pick inserted here.* they'd fight to a draw.

The reason being it needs to be something amazingly formidable to play it's role in the story properly. Something even the monsters and the people with powers of demi gods are afraid to face.