[PF] Fun tricks for Gunslingers

[Certified]

We have a new player joining the group and they have decided to take on the role of a Halfling Gunslinger. This is their first table top RPG and our first time using the class.

Are their any recommendations for simple builds, or Feats to help make the class shine? Generally, I'm looking for fun tricks or stunt type things the character can do to help spice up combat beyond the basic, I shoot it.

Note: We are using Pathfinder only. No Third Party Publishers.

[Bhaakon]

What level?

Unfortunately, the gunslinger is fairly one-dimensional class. If the character is going to be 7th level or higher, then Startling Shot and Targeting will provide some completely RAW combat options beyond "I shoot at it", but they're still fairly simple. Which is potentially a good thing with a new player.

The "Daring Act" optional rule might be what you're looking for, since it's a mechanic that rewards the player to attempt the sort of dramatic and cinematic actions that you don't often see in 3.5/PF, like dropping a chandelier on your opponents or tossing a powder horn at group of enemies and shooting it to cause an explosion (often because the rules for such things are often obscure and ill-defined, if they exist at all).

[Malroth]

1 lv dip in synthesist summoner for extra arms and grab multiattack

[The Boz]

Houserule away the small size damage penalty of firearms. They're firearms, ffs.

[MagnusExultatio]

The "Daring Act" optional rule might be what you're looking for, since it's a mechanic that rewards the player to attempt the sort of dramatic and cinematic actions that you don't often see in 3.5/PF, like dropping a chandelier on your opponents or tossing a powder horn at group of enemies and shooting it to cause an explosion (often because the rules for such things are often obscure and ill-defined, if they exist at all).


It should take a good deal of guts, and its outcome should have a low probability of success.

This generally means that trying to regain grit through a daring act is a waste of time when you could be just killing something or shooting in hopes of a crit.


1 lv dip in synthesist summoner for extra arms and grab multiattack

Waste of time, the eidolon's stats supersede your stats.

[Doorhandle]

It's also a late option, but bleeding shot it good to use signature deed with because it can allow you to stack up a LOT of bleed damage: Ability bleed or otherwise.

As for interesting things you can do with gunslinger: try being a Mysterious stranger? you use cha instead of wisdom, with all the accompanying benefits for skills.

[Bhaakon]

This generally means that trying to regain grit through a daring act is a waste of time when you could be just killing something or shooting in hopes of a crit.

The definition of "low probability of success" is up to the DM, as are the potential benefits of success. It can be something as pointless as a 1-in-20 chance of dazing an opponent for one round, or it could be a 30% chance of ending the encounter outright. If the DM is trying to get his players to do something other than shoot every turn, there's plenty of room in that language to interpret the daring act rules in the player's favor (especially if it's a particularly clever move on the player's part).

[Ravens_cry]

Mysterious stranger mixed with paladin could be nice. Or Ninja, especially once you have a means of full attack Sneak Attack.

[Acanous]

If he wants to be a small thing with CHA bonus, Gnome is a really good option. Gnome Ninja 2/Gunslinger the rest is a really good build. You can get Bewildering Koan and smoke bomb, then go Mysterious Stranger Gnomish Gunsmith and take the alchemical chamber. Get yourself Lenses of Fogcutting. Now you're a World War One infantryman, shooting out of clouds of smoke.

Enemies can't see you, so they are flat-footed. Guns shoot against Touch AC for the first Range incriment. Take Far Shot, your range incriment is now doubled. Have a Shotgun. Shoot a 120 foot cone.

Oh, and you get a D6 of Sneak Attack damage if they're within 30 feet. So that helps offset the small size penalty.

[Chained Birds]

Double Hackbut. 2d10 (For Small Size!). Has 2 shots before needing a reload.

This! This is a Halfling Gunslinger's (Mysterious Stranger) best friend.

[grarrrg]

1 lv dip in synthesist summoner for extra arms and grab multiattack

Waste of time, the eidolon's stats supersede your stats.

I agree, mostly.

Synthesist is NOT FOR DIPPING.
Multiclassing maybe, but you get next to nothing for a "dip".

Here's why (for a Gunslinger/ranged class):
Your options are Biped with 12 DEX and 2 arms, Quad with 14 DEX and NO arms, or Serpentine with 16 DEX and NO arms.
Each gets 3 Evo points at level 1, heck, we'll pretend you took the feat to make it 4 (which considering Ranged classes WANT FEATS this isn't really feasible, but anywho...)
You can spend 2 Evo points on DEX, or 2 Evo points for 2 arms. The DEX upgrade can only be taken once.
So you wind up with Biped 14 DEX and 4 arms, Quad with 14 DEX and 4 Arms, or 16 DEX and 2 arms, Serpentine with 16 DEX and 4 arms.
Obviously the best choice is Serpentine...but not by a whole heck of a lot.


Now if you want to MULTIclass Synthesist... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12152413#post12152413)

[Keneth]

It's also a late option, but bleeding shot it good to use signature deed with because it can allow you to stack up a LOT of bleed damage: Ability bleed or otherwise.

Is that just a figure of speech? Because bleed damage of the same type doesn't stack. And at that level, a good deal of creatures are gonna be immune to it, one way or another, so I don't really see it as a good option.

[Renen]

This is now a gundolon thread!

[grarrrg]

This is now a gundolon thread!

Fact: As the length of a thread increases, so do the chances of someone mentioning the gundolon.

[Certified]

Fact: As the length of a thread increases, so do the chances of someone mentioning the gundolon.

Just a reminder, this is for a first time player. Any suggestions should be relatively straight forward, complex builds are a bad idea.

The rest of the party is level 7. While this is moving into the range where most characters pick up a lot of punch, I'm worried they will have a lot to take in.

[VanIsleKnight]

Magic bullets! I don't know if multi-classing as a sorcerer is an optimal idea, but it would be at least fun. Or, at the very least, make friends with a sorcerer/wizard. I'm sure there are clever tricks people can do with a firearm and/or bullets.

The more advanced firearms are loads of fun too, but I think the new player should pick an idea of what kind of gunslinger they envision themselves doing. There are some cool, useful archetypes for Gunslinger, and they should worry a lot less about optimization than they should what would be fun and cool for them to play.

I'd also consider talking with the GM about being an actual gunsmith so that they can make up their own guns or types of ammunition or other kooky gadgets that are related. Gnomes would be fun for this because of their nature, but if they're set on being a halfling that could work too.


EDIT: They're proficient with martial weapons too, interesting.

- Make use of the Daring Act optional rule, but make sure the DM and player sees it as a 'nice bonus' ruling and not a 'this is the only way I can get grit back reliably' rule.

- Personally I'd say just let the player regain a single Grit point after every encounter they spend one in. Otherwise they'll be liable to hold off on killing someone until the perfect moment so that they can recharge their Grit. I think Killing Blow is dumb that way though, so maybe that's just me.

- You probably shouldn't multi-class if this is their first time, and try to focus on making the most out of the Gunslinger class as possible. Ask the player what they'd like to be able to do more of, and then they can work with the rest of the group afterwards for ways to help them do what they want.

-Mysterious Stranger lets the Gunslinger be more, well, charismatic and encourages them to be full of personality (with mechanical benefits) as opposed to the others, which would encourage wiser types who might be less personable (like Jeff Bridges from True Grit or other angry old cowboys)

-Pistolero and Musketmaster remove the ability to use firearm siege engines. This is not a good thing. Hellsing Ultimate: Abridged touches on this. ***ches love cannons. <.<;

-Discuss other 'Utility Shots' that could be theoretically possible and on the same power scale as the ones the class can do currently.

-If they really want to multi-class, there are some options that I feel are better than others.

Detective Bards (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/detective)can cast spells while wearing light armor, and help everyone else and themselves do things that are done most often in the game. Initiative, perception, sense motive, diplomacy, etc. Plus the supportive spellcasting is useful, and bard are simple(ish) spellcasters anyway so the player hopefully won't get bogged down by the way magic and casting works in the game.

Holy Gun Paladins (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/holy-gun) gives a Gunslinger that multi-classes a bunch of useful benefits, like extra grit, another (potential) cheap masterwork gun, smiting shot, plus better saves and a little extra healing if they take just a two level dip. This works -great- with Mysterious Stranger, but due to being a Paladin, the player is Code Bound (not necessarily a bad thing, mind).

[Doorhandle]

Is that just a figure of speech? Because bleed damage of the same type doesn't stack. And at that level, a good deal of creatures are gonna be immune to it, one way or another, so I don't really see it as a good option.

Figure of speech. And while elementals, undead and constructs are immune that still leaves a lot of creatures on the slow, bloody path towards death as next to nothing is immune to bleeding specifically. What's more, ether the creature itself or it's support are going to waste actions to get rid of it, and if it's a signature deed you can use it without spending grit as a free action, meaning it's basically free. (ability bleed still costs you, however.)

Spawn of Rovagug , no surprise, are also immune but that applies to basically EVERYTHING you can throw at one.

[Daftendirekt]

Take only 5 levels of Gunslinger, then GTFO. Go for rogue, dip summoner for eidolon shenanigans, etc.

[Chained Birds]

For a Halfling Gunslinger, I'd suggest going:

1 Lvl Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger)
4 Lvl Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)
2 Lvl Ninja

Ninja can net you some useful abilities

Or

1 Lvl Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger)
2 Lvl Paladin (Holy Gun)
4 Lvl Oracle (Lore or Nature)

Oracle is good for the casting and the mystery that changes either your Dex to Reflex or Dex to AC into Cha to Reflex or AC.
Ninja is great for the Ninja Tricks and the extra Xd6 from sneak attack. I suggest ninja over rogue as you get a bit more out of ninja due to having a potentially high Cha. Ninja is also a nice idea if your player is not big on casting.

You could use Anti-Paladin too, if your player isn't up for the whole Paladin thing.

A non-Paladin combo is:

5 Lvl Gunslinger (Musket Master)
2 Lvl Cleric

Just pick whatever Domain you want. Travel (Exploration) is pretty neat. Though this combo is better for a non-Halfling, or at least a race that grants at least a bonus to Wisdom like Dwarf or any of the "+2 to any ability" races.

[Keneth]

Figure of speech. And while elementals, undead and constructs are immune that still leaves a lot of creatures on the slow, bloody path towards death as next to nothing is immune to bleeding specifically.

There's also every creature with fast healing or regeneration, as well as anyone with magical healing or the ability to roll a Heal check. Although the latter two do indeed force them to waste an action. Overall, bleeding is fun at lower levels, but gets progressively more pointless at higher levels. At least in my experience, though the setting does contribute to its effectiveness, clearly.

[Karoht]

Fact: As the length of a thread increases, so do the chances of someone mentioning the gundolon.
Gundolon's Law?

[grarrrg]

Just a reminder, this is for a first time player. Any suggestions should be relatively straight forward, complex builds are a bad idea.

The rest of the party is level 7. While this is moving into the range where most characters pick up a lot of punch, I'm worried they will have a lot to take in.

First time player? Straight Gunslinger then.
There is nothing wrong with the class, and Signature Deed is pretty sweet when you can get it.
Archetype-wise, go with Normal, Pistolero, or Musket Master. The others are...trickier.

There is really no _need_ to multiclass.
But oh are there options too...

A lower powered, but still handy one, would be 2 levels in Monk.
You get better Unarmed strikes (a decent alternative to Pistol Whip).
A boost to your Will Save.
WIS to AC (not useable with armor).
Two Bonus Feats (I'd pick 2 out of Dodge, Deflect Arrows, and Combat Reflexes, although archetypes can REALLY open this up)
And, last but not least, Evasion. On a class with Good Ref, and DEX as the highest stat, this can be SWEET.


So there's my input for the new guy.
Either Gunslinger 7, or Gunslinger 5/Monk 2


Gundolon's Law?
Well...it's either Gundolon or Oradin...

[Doorhandle]

There's also every creature with fast healing or regeneration, as well as anyone with magical healing or the ability to roll a Heal check. Although the latter two do indeed force them to waste an action. Overall, bleeding is fun at lower levels, but gets progressively more pointless at higher levels. At least in my experience, though the setting does contribute to its effectiveness, clearly.

Well, by R.A.W it's unclear weather or nor fast healing/regeneration does stop bleeding... (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mej3?Does-RegenerateFast-Heal-stop-bleed)

[Keneth]

Granted, fast healing and regeneration are both Ex abilities, but even JJ said that both should be able to close bleeding wounds, and frankly any DM should be inclined to agree with that notion.

[Chained Birds]

Granted, fast healing and regeneration are both Ex abilities, but even JJ said that both should be able to close bleeding wounds, and frankly any DM should be inclined to agree with that notion.

What if the bleeding is caused by a supernatural or spell-like ability? One might think that natural healing can't recover from unnatural harm like with DR -/X only working on physical damage.

[Keneth]

What if the bleeding is caused by a supernatural or spell-like ability? One might think that natural healing can't recover from unnatural harm like with DR -/X only working on physical damage.

Such wounds are extremely rare. The only example that comes to mind is a barbazu's infernal wound ability, and even in that case the wound is just harder to heal. I would only rule against it if the bleed came from a creature whose wounds are specifically noted not to heal naturally, such as a clay golem.

[Tokuhara]

I'm kind of a fan of the Drifter-style Gunslinger, so here's one I made for a Pathfinder game with my friends

Goblin Witch 1/Mysterious Stranger 19

Minus the TWF tree (using Prehensile Hair to reload), I took No Name (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/no-name-grit) and Without a Past (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/without-a-past) for pure fluff reasons.

[Theprettiestorc]

I've got a suggestion. It's one that peaks out at 9th level.

Step 1: Be a ratfolk. Not much different from a halfling, mind you, but you can get access to scent and stuff, if you like. Plus, they get a bonus to Int. instead of Cha. Perfect for skills.
Step 2: Take on the Gulch Gunner archetype. This is a special archetype which starts off with giving you bonuses as long as you're close in combat, with this build. Extra damage and such as you get higher for shooting adjacent foes.
Step 3: You need Dodge, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload(firearm of choice)(comes with the class), Shot on the Run, and Deft Shootist Deed.
Step 4: Take a firearm with a short range increment, that does high damage. I prefer the Double Barrel Shotgun.

Now, if you use the DBS, here's what your build amounts to at 9th level: you can hit adjacent foes with a single attack from both your barrels, at a -4 penalty to the roll. However, this brings two attacks with 1d6 each to one attack with 4d6. Add the 1d6 to every attack anyway. You have Rapid Reload, which means you can reload your Advanced Firearm as a free action, now - I've heard arguments both ways as to whether you can still reload both barrels between shots, though. In addition, you can wade through enemies and such(at 20 ft. per round), and still get a 5d6+(gunslinger bonuses) attack each time. You will not incur attacks of opportunity for reloading or firing at adjacent foes as long as you have grit.

However! If you run out of grit, remember that you provoke Attacks of Opportunity as normal for firing at an adjacent foe. But every time you do this as a Gulch Gunner, you gain one grit point. In essence, you've got a recycling grit pool, as long as you can handle being attacked for every point you get back. Which shouldn't be too hard, with the right armor and buckler(since you can use a buckler with a firearm at no penalty).

As I said, this peaks at 9th level, with some perks and such for sticking around until level 20. However, if you want to take a nice Prestige class, that's easily done without losing any functionality, and could be beneficial for something that, say...increases armor class. Heck, take a level of Wizard or such - you've got the extra Intelligence, and spells like Featherfall or Air Bubble are infinitely useful to be able to cast for yourself, in case you fall from heights or need to shoot underwater.

This is probably my favorite gunslinger build. =P. Let me know if you like it!

*Note: For 7th level, your best bet is to wait to take Shot on the Run, and take Deft Shootist at 8th level. Since you're not necessarily needing to be in melee range to get extra damage anyway, yet, you can stay out of range for now...with bonuses if you're within 30 ft.

[magwaaf]

well i played a human gunslinger6/fighter1 but it was a mix of 3.5 and pf (mainly pf) it was a imp initiative build that was going to be crit build. yes i know its hard to make a crit build on guns but our house rules fix it a little.

our house rules are that if you have a keen/impact weapon and imp critical the first one works as normal and the second only makes the range only 1 bigger and we have a rune system that we use in our games that if you get a keen rune on your weapon its an additional 1 lower. our dm is very good at balancing things so it doesn't get too out of hand.

dual wielded revolvers,

[Daftendirekt]

Except you can't put keen (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/keen) on guns by RAW. Piercing and slashing melee weapons only.