[PF] Mailman

[The Boz]

I need a sorcerer somewhat optimized for blasting and not much else.
I know that PF has options for that, but the key 3.5 Mailman feats and spells were changed... so how do I do it now?

[Corlindale]

It's pretty hard to do in PF, you can't achieve anything close to the damage that was possible in 3.5.

Optimized blasting in PF, assuming you're going for damage and not CC with Dazing Spell, is generally achieved by taking crossblooded sorceror, grabbing two arcanas that together get you +2 damage/dice in one element. Then take magical lineage in your favourite spell and apply metamagic(s) of choice. It's arguably better to go crossblooded sorceror 1/Evoker 19 - you get the full benefit of the two arcanas and STILL get your spells faster than a pure crossblooded sorceror. But full sorceror works too, and the crossblooded penalty will hurt less for a sorceror heavily focused on metamagic.

Spell choice is also tricky - unfortunately no "Orb" spells in PF, so it's hard to get a very potent option here. But focus on a specific spell to take advantage of Spell Perfection eventually. Remember Elemental Spell to deal with possible immunities.

While it won't work with crossblooded sorceror, it is interesting to note that the closest thing PF has to the Orb spells may be Deafening Song Blast from the Bard list, of all obscure places. 5th level, 9d10 damage (roughly equal to the old 15d6), no save, no SR, Sonic. You just need some way to get it on the sorceror list - easiest is to be a Samsaran, but it can also be done with Arcane Savant.

[Krazzman]

It is pretty "easy". But affords a certain level.

Look at the Geyser Spell and Havok of Society. A member of the playground here has a pretty nice build for that.

[Blyte]

What level are you starting?

[The Boz]

Level 1 human.

That Geyser seems interesting, if a bit limited in the application.

[Blyte]

I'm currently playing a sorc optimized for magic missile damage.. before you laugh, check out his damage. eventually he can make a shift over to nice area damage spells, but still have good peppering magic missiles he can quicken meta magic rod into to drill down a foe.

human sorcerer 1 (tattooed sorcerer) (dual bloodline orc+brutal)

traits- metamagic master (magic missile) + trait that gives +1 CL (magic missile)

feats- varisian tattoo (bonus class archetype), spell focus (evocation), spell specialization (magic missile) (bonus human)

magic missile damage progression
lvl 1 3d4+8 [15.5 avg]
lvl 3 4d4+10 [20 avg]
lvl 4 4d4+10 (x1.5 empowered) [30 avg]
lvl 5 5d4+13 (x1.5 empowered) [38.25 avg]

feat progression
3 empower spell
5 extra traits (havoc of the society & magical lineage[choose your next spell to focus on])
7 blood mage adept, toughness(blood line)

at level 7 you want to pick up a rod of intensify spell so you can open the limit to magic missile

so at level 7 you have +5 CL to magic missile (great for piercing SR), +2 CL to all evocation, +1 DC to all evocation

[Karoht]

Toppling Spell + Magic Missile is hilarious.
However, easily countered by Shield, and high amounts of Spell Resistance.

[The Boz]

I'm currently playing a sorc optimized for magic missile damage.. before you laugh, check out his damage. eventually he can make a shift over to nice area damage spells, but still have good peppering magic missiles he can quicken meta magic rod into to drill down a foe.

human sorcerer 1 (tattooed sorcerer) (dual bloodline orc+brutal)

traits- metamagic master (magic missile) + trait that gives +1 CL (magic missile)

feats- varisian tattoo (bonus class archetype), spell focus (evocation), spell specialization (magic missile) (bonus human)

magic missile damage progression
lvl 1 3d4+8 [15.5 avg]
lvl 3 4d4+10 [20 avg]
lvl 4 4d4+10 (x1.5 empowered) [30 avg]
lvl 5 5d4+13 (x1.5 empowered) [38.25 avg]

feat progression
3 empower spell
5 extra traits (havoc of the society & magical lineage[choose your next spell to focus on])
7 blood mage adept, toughness(blood line)

at level 7 you want to pick up a rod of intensify spell so you can open the limit to magic missile

so at level 7 you have +5 CL to magic missile (great for piercing SR), +2 CL to all evocation, +1 DC to all evocation
I rather like this. I'm quite fond of magic missile damage, and would never laugh about the metamagic'd single target damage potential of it. All it takes is me DMing a single encounter vs a single insane level 10 wizard that placed magic missile in every. Single. Spell. Slot.

[Saidoro]

Consider using words of power (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power). It takes away a lot of the useful overpowered spells on the normal list but gives far more versatility at low levels and better scaling on things like the magical lineage trait at higher levels.
Sample Build:
Human Tattooed Crossblooded(Red Dragon/Primal Fire) Sorcerer 1
Traits: Metamagic Master(Burning Flash), Magical Lineage(Burning Flash)
Feats: Varisian Tattoo, Empower Spell, Elemental Spell

So at first level you can toss around 3d4+6 fire damage or 2d4+4 any other damage burning flashes in a variety of shapes.(Remember, elemental spell doesn't actually change the descriptor so your extra damage still applies.) As you level up you pick up intensify spell and abuse the way it interacts with combining spells to have damage caps far higher than normal for your spell level used. (Intensified Burning flash/Shock arc can deal 20 dice of damage out of a fourth level slot.)

[Khantin]

Battering blast plus intensify spell meta magic. At cl 10 does 2 orbs ranged touch attack for 5d6 force damage no save on the damage but a save to prevent bull rush and prone. At cl 15 does 3 orbs for 7d6, at cl 20 does 4 orbs for 10d6 each. It is a fourth level spell before you start meta magic.

With abuild optimized around this spell, you can 1 round cr 23 monsters..

[Keneth]

(Remember, elemental spell doesn't actually change the descriptor so your extra damage still applies.)

That's a loop hole that no sane DM is gonna allow. :smallbiggrin:

[Blyte]

Battering blast plus intensify spell meta magic. At cl 10 does 2 orbs ranged touch attack for 5d6 force damage no save on the damage but a save to prevent bull rush and prone. At cl 15 does 3 orbs for 7d6, at cl 20 does 4 orbs for 10d6 each. It is a fourth level spell before you start meta magic.

With abuild optimized around this spell, you can 1 round cr 23 monsters..

I believe it would cap out at 7d6 per orb, intensify would push the limit from 5 to 7, since it can only push the dice cap 5 levels. Which isn't bad damage at all assuming you hit. Might be worth taking a level of ranger and a wand of instant favored enemy coupled with the feat that gives you full favored enemy bonus. Otherwise you end up taking 2 feats for pointblank and precise. With the ranger route you get 4x favored damage bonus on the orbs and the to hit bonus you need with a wizard to garuntee delivery. I was considering a similar build utilizing fiery shurikens, for a crapton of compounded favored enemy damage.

[Saidoro]

That's a loop hole that no sane DM is gonna allow. :smallbiggrin:
The flavor is debatable, but I don't see why a dm would disallow a way of making a lower power option more competitive.

[Keneth]

The flavor is debatable, but I don't see why a dm would disallow a way of making a lower power option more competitive.

Nothing about a full caster is any kind of low power, wordcaster or not. :smallbiggrin:

That said, effects that deal elemental damage are effects of that kind, and thus receive the appropriate descriptors. I might let a player get away with both descriptors, but there's no way I would ever let them cast an electricity spell with only the [fire] descriptor, and if they insisted on it, I'd just rule that immunities correspond to effect descriptors (which they should).

[The Boz]

Consider using words of power (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power).

*sniff, sniff* Smells like Truenamer.

[Keneth]

Nah, words of power aren't anywhere near as bad as Truenamer. They do considerably impact a caster's power and versatility though, dropping them at least a tier. I actually find them to be a good balancing factor for spellcasters.

[mregecko]

I believe it would cap out at 7d6 per orb, intensify would push the limit from 5 to 7, since it can only push the dice cap 5 levels. Which isn't bad damage at all assuming you hit. Might be worth taking a level of ranger and a wand of instant favored enemy coupled with the feat that gives you full favored enemy bonus. Otherwise you end up taking 2 feats for pointblank and precise. With the ranger route you get 4x favored damage bonus on the orbs and the to hit bonus you need with a wizard to garuntee delivery. I was considering a similar build utilizing fiery shurikens, for a crapton of compounded favored enemy damage.

Agree that it caps out at 7d6, not 10d6. Too bad. :-P

Just some napkin math, assuming 20th caster level:

7d6 * 4 = 4th level (intensified)
(7d6 * 1.5 ) = 6th level (empowered)
(7d6*4*0.5) + MAX(28d6) = 9th level (maximized)

Taking Magical Lineage, Quicken, Dazing, Spell Perfection...

Lets you cast this twice a round -- once quickened and once dazing -- for an average of 217*2 = 434 dmg, out of two 8th level slots.

There might be ways to add more damage onto there... And you can pump up the DC with Spell Focus / Greater Spell Focus... Or the SR with Piercing spell or Greater Spell Penetration.

-----------

The OTHER great spell for pathfinder metamagic stacking is Snowball. It's basically slightly-downgraded (kinda) version of the Orb spells from 3.5. First level, ranged touch, 1d6/CL, max 5d6, with a fort-save-or-staggered Rider. No save on damage, no SR, instantaneous conjuration (creation) spell.

So an intensified, maximized, empowered Snowball is only 7th level (before reducers). For (10d6*0.5)+60 = 95 average.

Not as much damage, but it's only one Ranged Touch attack, and it's SR: No. Which is obviously nice. And it's lower level by two.

:-) Enjoy!

[WhatBigTeeth]

Psionics still have all their no-save, no-SR blasts, if they're still on the table.

[Khantin]

I believe it would cap out at 7d6 per orb, intensify would push the limit from 5 to 7, since it can only push the dice cap 5 levels. Which isn't bad damage at all assuming you hit. Might be worth taking a level of ranger and a wand of instant favored enemy coupled with the feat that gives you full favored enemy bonus. Otherwise you end up taking 2 feats for pointblank and precise. With the ranger route you get 4x favored damage bonus on the orbs and the to hit bonus you need with a wizard to garuntee delivery. I was considering a similar build utilizing fiery shurikens, for a crapton of compounded favored enemy damage.


good catch! I always thought it was 5 dice increase.... d'oh. Now I am thinking of ranger/sorc/ek that spams like 20 projectiles a round with a massive favored class bonus and extra damage per dice bloodlines....