Flavorful but decent blade user?

[MiME]

Hey guys!

I needed to create a stylish, rapier-like-sword using character that would be a great sword user but also a capable character, hopefully without (much) use of magic. Like what the swashbuckler is supposed to be, except, you know, actually useful.

I ask because, while I've been trying to look through every book I can find, the huge amount of classes is a bit overwhelming, and the ones that do seem to be kind of what I'm looking for are all a bit crap, it seems (like the Bladesinger, for instance).
Thus I turn to you, my most knowledgeable pals.

So, what do you think is the most appropriate class/prestige class for the task? Is the Warblade kinda like that? Or is the swordsage a closer match? Are there any other decent classes/prestige classes I should take a look at?

Thanks in advance!

[DeltaEmil]

Yes. The Tome of Battle classes Warblade and Swordsage do work as fencers.

[Shining Wrath]

If you want flavor, go ToB Swordsage or Warblade and the progress into Eternal Blade or Master of Nine.

[Sith_Happens]

Yes. The Tome of Battle classes Warblade and Swordsage do work as fencers.

Warblade probably fits better, due to Iron Heart being pretty clearly inspired by Western fencing styles.

[Shining Wrath]

Warblade probably fits better, due to Iron Heart being pretty clearly inspired by Western fencing styles.

For a straight-up fighter, Warblade is clearly superior to Swordsage.
D12 better than D8.
Full BAB versus 3/4 BAB.

Where Swordsage beats Warblade is in the other capabilities, like being able to teleport 50' every 12 seconds (once you have adaptive style feat).

[MiME]

Thanks for the responses guys!



Where Swordsage beats Warblade is in the other capabilities, like being able to teleport 50' every 12 seconds (once you have adaptive style feat).

Um, is that teleporting magic-based or more like a super martial technique of awesome speed?

And also, do you guys think a Swashbuckler dip is worth it? Like, maybe three or five levels?

[Gnome Alone]

Three levels of Swashbuckler lets you be more deadly specifically because you're smart. That's gotta feel good.

[Snowbluff]

Three levels of Swashbuckler lets you be more deadly specifically because you're smart. That's gotta feel good.

It also gives you weapon finesse. 3 is the correct number.

Swordsage's teleportation is supernatural in nature.

[Urpriest]

If you do go with Warblade, three levels of Swashbuckler (with maybe one more of something else like Fighter) will let you pick up a 3rd level stance at your fourth warblade level. This is nice since normally then you can only get a first level stance. Also, Warblades like having high Int, so it synergizes well.

[RunicLGB]

If you want to make the Swashbuckler work take Daring Outlaw from complete scoundrel and take levels of Swashbuckler. NOt as good as initiators of course but still good.

Straight from the Rogue handbook:


SwashbucklerCW, CS – Swashbuckler is a fantastic multiclass for the rogue due to a single feat: Daring Outlaw. A build like Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16 with Daring Outlaw is a simple but effective melee rogue build, getting nearly full base attack, mostly d10 Hit Die, and 10d6 Sneak Attack. Swashbuckler nets you Weapon Finesse and Int to damage as well, which is fairly nice too. If you are going with a Daring Outlaw two-weapon fighting build, the Swift and DeadlyDotU ACF is worth considering, since you don’t trade away much and you get to play games where you full attack an enemy, move 10 ft away, and be out of range for their full attack. The Arcane StuntCM ACF is worth considering as well, giving you a few useful SLAs in place of Grace. The Shield of BladesPHB2 ACF is very much worth it for two-weapon fighters.

[tyckspoon]

Swordsage's teleportation is supernatural in nature.

Reference? Nowhere in Tome of Battle that I can find does it actually say that. It does say that some maneuvers can be Supernatural, and if they are the specific maneuver will mention that (most of Desert Wind and a good chunk of Shadow Hand is, for example- the things that make fiery explosions and turn you invisible are Su.) The teleports do not have any such mention, and I don't believe there is any general rule that says a [Teleportation] effect has to be magical.

@ related question: although described as 'teleporting through shadow', the Shadow Hand teleporting maneuvers still require both line of sight and line of effect, so they operate more like 'martial arts superspeed'- you have to see where you're going and there can't be a big wall in the way, so if you want to describe them as dashing really really fast the mechanics support it pretty well.

[ZeroSpace9000]

Huh, it doesn't actually state that Shadow Jaunt and co. are actually supernatural. With that said, I believe it likely should be supernatural anyways, as it does carry the teleportation tag, which generally tends to be overtly magical.

[DeltaEmil]

Strangely enough, the teleportation stuff in the Shadow Hand school aren't supernatural. They're still teleportation effects, however, so if you're barred from entering the astral plane (like for example being dimension-locked), you can't use them.

[Shining Wrath]

Thanks for the responses guys!



Um, is that teleporting magic-based or more like a super martial technique of awesome speed?

And also, do you guys think a Swashbuckler dip is worth it? Like, maybe three or five levels?

It's a 2nd level Shadow Hand maneuver called "Shadow Jaunt". As a standard action you disappear into a puff of shadows and reappear 50' away. At higher levels you can do that 50' thing as a swift action, which is cool beans. But you can only do it once per encounter, or until you refresh your maneuvers, which for a Swordsage is a full-round action *after* you take the Adaptive Style feat. :smallannoyed: Warblades refresh their maneuvers by attacking something (including an empty square) which is pretty much superior in every way.

[Seharvepernfan]

If you want to make the Swashbuckler work take Daring Outlaw from complete scoundrel and take levels of Swashbuckler. NOt as good as initiators of course but still good.

Straight from the Rogue handbook:

This, if you want a duelist/swashbuckler/dashing-swordsman type character with plenty of skills.

Warblade if you want a Liono/HeMan/Conan type character who is fantastically physically capable and the best at actually killing **** (regardless of whether or not it's vulnerable to sneak attacks and crits) than anybody else, with a sword.

Swordsage if you want a mix of the two with plenty of unique powers on its own (swordsage covers a lot of archetypes).

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

It takes some time to really get going, but I always found Jack B. Quick (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869062/6_hits_to_1:_Jack_B._Quick) more flavorful than most initiator builds, but I've never been too fond of the Tome of Battle.

[Waspinator]

For Tome of Battle, I would look through the maneuver descriptions and see which ones you like. Then look at which disciplines those are in and pick the class that gets those disciplines.

[MiME]

Awesome guys!

Thank you all so much!