Need help populating a P6 world

[The Boz]

Dear forumites, I require your assistance in preparing a world so that my party can experience the days of high adventure. Or years. Whatever.

Disclaimer: if you know me personally, leave this thread now. Thank you.

So, the world in question was once Golarion, but no more. As far as we know, the gods have died. All of them. Don't know how, don't know why, not important right now. As you can imagine, an event like this can change a world.
Magic began to fail; starting with high level permanent stuff, and going down from there. There are no more enchanted items in the world at all, the best enchanters can forge a magical sword and have it last for a day at most before it loses all the magical properties. Spell durations are HIDEOUSLY shortened; what was once a whole day is now an hour at most.
There are no more creatures that actively depend on magic to sustain them, such as most undead, golems, elementals and the like. This made technology flourish; early gunpowder weapons, while not common, can definitely be seen on the battlefields and clockwork mechanisms grew in power, complexity and popularity.
The event echoed politically as well. The races which depended on magic, especially magical items, were suddenly at a severe disadvantage. The drow, for example, have been all but wiped out by the dwarves.

And here is where you come in. I have the general political ideas, potential storylines and plots all planned out, but I need help. This world is unlike the Golarion that was, and entirely new challenges are bound to appear. What monsters could survive such an event (vampires are an example of creatures that survived the event, but have lost some of their power, and no new vampires have been made since the event) or even thrive in the wake of it (dragons, while somewhat weakened by the event, soon found that not much in this new world could challenge their power)?

[Empedocles]

This sounds a lot like certain eras of the Dragonlance setting. One interesting thing that happened there when the gods would disappear was that wizards would lose access to their magic, and then begin draining the magic from ancient artifacts to power their spells.

Also, I think you need to work out why the gods disappeared. Depending on what did it, it could impact the campaign world hugely as well.

[The Boz]

Fueling magic by using artifacts does not work, most artifacts are now junk.

I have that reason for the event worked out already, it just isn't important to the topic at hand. It ties neatly to the entire campaign.

[Regitnui]

It's pretty important, actually. The reason for the gods' deaths will massively impact the world. For example, if the gods were killed off by an evil god, than there could be a cult still with access to magic, and they're willing to use it to destroy their depowered foes. If the gods naturally passed on, there may be locii; areas of the world that still have some magic, but not enough to sustain spells.

[The Boz]

It's pretty important, actually. The reason for the gods' deaths will massively impact the world. For example, if the gods were killed off by an evil god, than there could be a cult still with access to magic, and they're willing to use it to destroy their depowered foes. If the gods naturally passed on, there may be locii; areas of the world that still have some magic, but not enough to sustain spells.

Magic still exists, but on a short-term basis in the form of spells. Further difficulties may apply.
And yes, doomsday cults are springing up all over the place, but they're not followers of the godkiller or something like that. Noone knows what exactly happened and why the gods died.
And if you must know, here's a very brief summary.
There's an entity that is not of this set of planes, or of any universe at all. He eats universes. He is horribly strong. But the kicker is, he can not materialize in a universe at all. Most he can do is touch a universe with his magic (and he can only do this once), and that touch eradicates the entire godhood of a particular universe, together with some other godlike beings.
That is step one. Step two is cleanup. You see, when he eradecates a pantheon, the gods shatter and leave almost undetectable shards of their former power all over the universe. These remnants, godshards if you will, prevent the entity from consuming the universe, so before he can devour it, all traces of the godlike creatures in that universe must be removed. For this purpose, he has set apart one universe which he has so far spared, and one race that he uses as pawns. They are called the Vore. So, step two, cleanup. A select few Vore appear on several planes of the target universe. They are "friendly", but they do not appear in public. They choose a select few plane dwellers (PCs included) and promise them incredible power in return for their services.
After step two and enough of the godshards have been removed from this universe and transported to the Vore one, and magic has been sufficiently sapped (as the very existence of godshards makes magic still possible at all) the Vore attack in force. They wipe out all resistance, locate all the godshards, and take them away. After that, nom nom time.
Now, on the nature of godshards: they are intangible and invisible unless you know they are there, and they have no known application. They naturally seek each other and power, in that order. Expect a fair few of them to be near the dwelling of an elder dragon, for example. Initially, godshards can not be located without using a Vore device, but once their existence becomes known, it is likely that other methods would emerge.
The entire campaign takes place in step two. The PCs would be a bunch of people down on their luck, deep in debt, disillusioned, and desperate, and quite soon approached by a Vore emissary with first a mundane task to test them, and then sent off to get shards for POWERRR. Step three happens if the PCs really mess up and fail at every intelligence check ever, or intentionally choose to become Vore themselves after realizing what the plan is.

[Fouredged Sword]

Beholders are dead.

Aboleth are forced to retreat into the deep because they lost their mind control

Illithids are severely weakened. They are fighting a bitter slave uprising. They are not dead yet, but they may be soon.

Dragons are alpha predators, but lost their magic.

Elementals are harder to find, but are still around.

Goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs are ravaging the countryside nearly everywhere. They are more used to combat without spells, and the pale skin forces are struggling without magical healing.

Elves are struggling to survive. Their archers are all they have left.

Humans have adapted to the situation.

Dwarves are struggling to feed their underground kingdoms. They are trading a lot more than they used to, seeking contracts for grain and other foodstuffs.

Kobolds are in a panic. Their holiest of holy, sorcerery, has disappeared. The race is still around, but the warrens have fractured and groups of Kobold wander the country seeking a meaning for the loss of everything they hold dear. Some cling to serving a dragon, but others just wander.

Gnomes lose their illusions. They have become instead interested in the new clockworks that are being invented.

Druids and rangers still mind the woods, but using more normal skills. They still have animal companions and woodland abilities, but they lost the supernatural connection with nature.

[The Boz]

Beholders are dead.

Aboleth are forced to retreat into the deep because they lost their mind control

Illithids are severely weakened. They are fighting a bitter slave uprising. They are not dead yet, but they may be soon.

Dragons are alpha predators, but lost their magic.

Elementals are harder to find, but are still around.

This is exactly the kind of stuff I need. I would appreciate more detail, though. Mentioning a few specific monsters and how they'd fit in this world would be most appreciated.


Goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs are ravaging the countryside nearly everywhere. They are more used to combat without spells, and the pale skin forces are struggling without magical healing.

Elves are struggling to survive. Their archers are all they have left.

Humans have adapted to the situation.

Dwarves are struggling to feed their underground kingdoms. They are trading a lot more than they used to, seeking contracts for grain and other foodstuffs.

Kobolds are in a panic. Their holiest of holy, sorcerery, has disappeared. The race is still around, but the warrens have fractured and groups of Kobold wander the country seeking a meaning for the loss of everything they hold dear. Some cling to serving a dragon, but others just wander.

Gnomes lose their illusions. They have become instead interested in the new clockworks that are being invented.

Druids and rangers still mind the woods, but using more normal skills. They still have animal companions and woodland abilities, but they lost the supernatural connection with nature.

This is mostly what I already had in mind, but I love the bit about dwarves going hungry and desperately expanding and trading. Kobolds are nice, too, I completely forgot about those little guys!

[Yogibear41]

If the gods are dead shouldn't divine magic be almost if not completely gone, but arcane magic should be perfectly fine?

[The Boz]

If the gods are dead shouldn't divine magic be almost if not completely gone, but arcane magic should be perfectly fine?

Pathfinder explicitly allows for godless divine casters, and all magic is somewhat dependant on the existence of gods. At least in this world.

[Fouredged Sword]

Mindflayers - Well, they use mind control to force whole populations of creatures into servitude/food. They use a days/level dominate power or spell to make this work.

Well, now it doesn't. They can maintain control for hours at best. They are expending all their resources controlling a dedicated band of fighters and enough brains to survive. They have fallen from a civilization to a hunter gather society despite their massive intellects. This has made them more dangerous and aggressive, but less world threatening.

Beholders - having lost their magic and ability to fly at will, Beholders became rolling balls of eyes. They fell victim to underdark predators in short order.

Aboleths - They suffer the same problem as the mindflayers, but less so. They retreated to the deep and wait and plot. They don't need people for food so disengagement is an option.

[The Boz]

I love the mind flayers and aboleths, there's an easy underground cavern city quest I can picture with those two and slaves and dwarves and what not.

What iconic monsters would you imagine to get more powerful after the event? I'm really not that well acquainted with the Pathfinder bestiary and fluff to know of such, as most of the ones I think of (besides dragons) are likely to die (cockatrice, chimera) or be severely weakened (basilisk, etc.).

[Larkas]

Hmmmm... Is psionics a thing in your world? How does it relate to magic? Is it widespread? I can sort of imagine a group of psionic heroes racing to stop the demise of their multiverse.

Furthermore, how did the catastrophe affect the spells in terms of power? Was duration the only thing that is affected, or are circle of spells, say 7th-9th, not even possible to be cast any more?

[The Boz]

Hmmmm... Is psionics a thing in your world? How does it relate to magic? Is it widespread? I can sort of imagine a group of psionic heroes racing to stop the demise of their multiverse.

I dislike psionics. I don't hate or ban it, but noone has wanted to play a psion so far...
In any case, full transparency, and psionics are somewhat affected, just like magic.
However, if it turns out that noone in the party uses a psion, there just won't be any in the world at all; fluff-psions such as mind flayers use regular old SLAs.


Furthermore, how did the catastrophe affect the spells in terms of power? Was duration the only thing that is affected, or are circle of spells, say 7th-9th, not even possible to be cast any more?

The world is now firmly P6. As far as magic goes, no spell above level 5 has been successfully cast in the past decade or so. Creatures that could use such magics as spell-like abilities either lost them or can use much weaker versions.

[Larkas]

Okay, last two questions:

- Could this be the disaster that made the mind flayers go back in time?

- What is, ehm, P6? :smallredface:

[The Boz]

Hmm... This... I had not thought about it.

Anycakes, P6 is the Pathfinder version of E6 aka Epic 6. The short of it is, you level up to 6, and then stop. After that, every 5000 experience gives you either a feat or a 1/day higher level spell or a DM-approved class feature.

[Joe the Rat]

I'm guessing something has happened to the Starstone as well.



Kobolds are in a panic. Their holiest of holy, sorcerery, has disappeared. The race is still around, but the warrens have fractured and groups of Kobold wander the country seeking a meaning for the loss of everything they hold dear. Some cling to serving a dragon, but others just wander.

Alternatively, they fall back on the old teachings and become vicious little ambush trap-monkeys again. Less spellcasting means they will have a harder time dealing with the larger critters, and will likely be pushed out of prime mining areas by stronger or more technologically advanced groups. Or they become more mercenary and subversive, "working" for the larger races and biding their time.

I could see them becoming obsessed with clockwork (better trap technology), or absolutely hate it (because the gnomes like it).

[Larkas]

Oh, do I know E6! I just never saw that acronym thrown around! :smallredface:

Well, if that is the disaster of Mind Flayer myth, then it is probable that they made some contingencies to prepare for it. Maybe they were preparing the world for what is coming, or maybe they are simply out for themselves. Regardless, their relation to the cataclysm could be much more than meet the eye. They could be apparent villains, but really be the good guys (or at least the neutral guys trying to save the world). They could be unsuspecting allies. And they could be the only ones around able to make heads or tails of the godshards.

[The Boz]

Oh, do I know E6! I just never saw that acronym thrown around! :smallredface:

Well, if that is the disaster of Mind Flayer myth, then it is probable that they made some contingencies to prepare for it. Maybe they were preparing the world for what is coming, or maybe they are simply out for themselves. Regardless, their relation to the cataclysm could be much more than meet the eye. They could be apparent villains, but really be the good guys (or at least the neutral guys trying to save the world). They could be unsuspecting allies. And they could be the only ones around able to make heads or tails of the godshards.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like this would be a good idea. Thank you!

[Larkas]

No problem!

On fey: most fey might be, if not extinct, very close to it. They rely on magic on a fundamental magic, and the lack of it might strike directly at their souls! The few remaining ones should be savagely trying to survive. Think Wild Hunt, only even more barbaric. If in ages past fey appeared related to the elves, nowadays they are seen more as orc- and goblin-like. As a result, the "civilized" races might be striking back at them, driving them back to the woodlands where their bloodlust will be contained. But everyone knows that the only safe way to deal with these fey creatures is to wipe out their home forests...

[The Boz]

No problem!

On fey: most fey might be, if not extinct, very close to it. They rely on magic on a fundamental magic, and the lack of it might strike directly at their souls! The few remaining ones should be savagely trying to survive. Think Wild Hunt, only even more barbaric. If in ages past fey appeared related to the elves, nowadays they are seen more as orc- and goblin-like. As a result, the "civilized" races might be striking back at them, driving them back to the woodlands where their bloodlust will be contained. But everyone knows that the only safe way to deal with these fey creatures is to wipe out their home forests...

Nice, this might work.

Trolls and manticores are two examples of creatures that would become incredibly powerful now. Trolls because enchanted elemental weapons are no longer a problem, and Manticore because, although a magical beast, it has no innate magic by itself, and does not rely on it. Both are pretty badass, beefy creatures with the potential to do some serious harm.
What other single creatures could become a good challenge for a low-ish level party?

[Empedocles]

Monstrous humanoids such as minotaurs, ogres, and giants have suddenly become an exponentially larger threat. Perhaps one particularly intelligent member of the species has even begun to mobilize the monstrous hordes against the now magic-less, civilized kingdoms.

[Empedocles]

What other single creatures could become a good challenge for a low-ish level party?

Rust monsters. They're are both hated and feared now. Without magic, steel becomes the way of war, making rust monsters a huge threat to the adventurer's very way of life. And lacking a sorcerer to blast them to little pieces, killing one gets a whole lot harder.

[The Boz]

Rust monsters. They're are both hated and feared now. Without magic, steel becomes the way of war, making rust monsters a huge threat to the adventurer's very way of life. And lacking a sorcerer to blast them to little pieces, killing one gets a whole lot harder.

Holy crap, you're right! Those critters would go on a RAMPAGE!

[Yogibear41]

Got an idea but don't want to spoil spoiler so wil just say, what if enough "broken vase pieces" get put back together and then "super glue" is applied

or the even better duck tape :smallcool:

[Deffers]

Well, the Tarrasque would, if it exists, would essentially become Death Itself. I mean, I know since it's P6 there's no way the PCs, or probably anyone, could ever hope to kill one directly, but imagine its potential as a setpiece. I mean, talk about an "oh ****" moment. A less "oh ****" but more capable of being interacted with version would be a mountain troll. Imagine the party taking on one of these bastards at the height of their power, once they're really close to ECL 10 equivalent through feats and stuff.

Gelatinous cubes and oozes, depending on your fluff for them (are they inherently magical? I mean, I guess they could be, or they could be some sort of strange jumbo-sized amoeba monster thingies) could pose some incredible logistical issues that players have to think laterally to succeed against.

[The Boz]

Got an idea but don't want to spoil spoiler so wil just say, what if enough "broken vase pieces" get put back together and then "super glue" is applied

or the even better duck tape :smallcool:
It will come up, yes. Very late game, though.


Well, the Tarrasque would, if it exists, would essentially become Death Itself. I mean, I know since it's P6 there's no way the PCs, or probably anyone, could ever hope to kill one directly, but imagine its potential as a setpiece. I mean, talk about an "oh ****" moment. A less "oh ****" but more capable of being interacted with version would be a mountain troll. Imagine the party taking on one of these bastards at the height of their power, once they're really close to ECL 10 equivalent through feats and stuff.

Gelatinous cubes and oozes, depending on your fluff for them (are they inherently magical? I mean, I guess they could be, or they could be some sort of strange jumbo-sized amoeba monster thingies) could pose some incredible logistical issues that players have to think laterally to succeed against.
Love the mountain troll idea. I can definitely see someone like that leading an army of orcs or various monstrous humanoids. Oh **** moments would abound.
Cubes, oozes and similar stuff would most likely fall apart after the event. As per the fluff in game, these are very, very magical in nature.

[Empedocles]

I would advise against causing all oozes to fall apart. Maybe the explicitly magical ones, but not all of them. Giant amoebas would be a perfectly fine way to fluff it, and as Deffers said, could provide really interesting challenges to the players.

[The Boz]

I would advise against causing all oozes to fall apart. Maybe the explicitly magical ones, but not all of them. Giant amoebas would be a perfectly fine way to fluff it, and as Deffers said, could provide really interesting challenges to the players.
You might be right, they'd be a bitch to take down without copious amounts of spells and enchanted weapons... I'll give it a thought.

[Arcanist]

Yuck! I detest dead magic campaigns. When I think of D&D and Pathfinder, I imagine magic first and foremost. To each their own however :smalltongue:


Mindflayers - Well, they use mind control to force whole populations of creatures into servitude/food. They use a days/level dominate power or spell to make this work.

If the Mindflayers are Psionic, this would make them MUCH greater threats to the point where they can actually start moving into more open areas.

They have access to Psionics, they can perform autokills with Extract and thematically are going to be surrounded by massive "lesser creatures" (i.e. Anything they can dominate).

These guys are friken deadly without magic :smalleek:


Aboleths - They suffer the same problem as the mindflayers, but less so. They retreated to the deep and wait and plot. They don't need people for food so disengagement is an option.

Same as the Mindflayer really. These guys are REALLY DESTRUCTIVE with the superior abilities. Creatures with Psionics and the like are just... Monstrous in this world :smalleek: Kind of like Darksouls really...

The really scary stuff are things like Oozes, Undead, creatures with Damage Reduction/ Magic and because of Transparency, Golems.

Matter as well make this a survival campaign and include thirst, starving, environmental rules and other hazards :smalltongue:

[The Boz]

Magic isn't dead, it's just severely weakened. By full transparency, psionics are equally affected.
Also, elementals (not elemental outsiders), golems and undead like zombies and liches rely on magic to keep them alive, so they would all pretty much die. Vampires would survive, but they'd be severely weakened.
But yes, lots of survival and "grit", most definitely.

[Empedocles]

Ooooh, well if psionics are also affected, mind flayers would initially have massive slave uprisings (I think that was mentioned earlier), but then become degenerate forms of their former selves. Essentially, they would be brain eating monstrosities prowling the underdark. Relying purely on brute force to get brains. They become a lot less powerful, but a bit more creepy. Like brain vampires. More of this. (http://cdn.obsidianportal.com/assets/146477/thoon_destroyer.jpg"this[/URL], less of [URL="http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060823145009/forgottenrealms/images/3/34/Mind_flayer.jpg)

[The Boz]

What powerhouse physical monsters in the CR1-10 range without SLAs and spellcasting can the giantitp board come up with?

[Larkas]

AFB right now, but aren't Wyverns CR6?