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Just to Browse
2013-04-17, 08:15 PM
I'm trying to define what the major types of magic are for a homebrew high-magic, all-caster campaign.

Not like evocation, enchantment, etc. but more along the lines of shadow magic, fire magic, demon binding, holy smiting, that sort of thing. They should be on the smaller side in scope (e.g. Fire Magic is more appropriate than Elemental Magic, Mind Control is more appropriate than Psychic), and I'm trying to pick out the top 6 most interesting ones to focus on first.

So what does the Playground think? What kinds of magic are there, and which are the most important/interesting from a player's perspective?

Magic from Monsters:

Fey
Demons
Angels
Genies
Wildshaping
Communing with Spirits
Pact Magic


Mental Magic:

Astral
Mind Control
Ki
Telekinesis
Lasers


Granted Magic:

Smiting Powers
Divine Health
Power Rangers-style cohorts
White/Black Lasers
Mending Wounds
Summoning Minions


Self-Made Powers:

Dragon Stuff
Artifice, Golem-Crafting
Alchemy
Keen Senses
Truenaming
Bard stuff

Kane0
2013-04-17, 08:41 PM
What about using the subschools of magic instead of the regular, broader schools? Or are you looking more specific than that?

Just to Browse
2013-04-17, 08:44 PM
I'm looking for fantasy-defined "schools" of magic. Like not Fire-Typed Evocations, but all Fire Magic (which would include insanity spells like mindfire or teleport spells like walk of flame). And not Conjuration (Summoning) but Devil Summoning or Angel Summoning (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw).
I'm sorry, it was just too good not to link.

Thugorp
2013-04-17, 11:42 PM
Well, I would say that there is nature magic(Druids, Shaman, Spirit shamen, Rangers, Blighters, etc), Holy magic(Clerics, favored souls, paladins, Archivers, etc), Arcane magic(Sorcerers, Wizards, Warlocks, Dread Necromancers, etc), Truename magic(Trunamers + Pr.C., + Words of Creation), Vestige binding(Binders, + Pr.C.s), Shadow Magic(Shadow mages + Pr.C.s), Incarnum(Totomists, soulborn, incarnate), and the gray area, Ki Magic(Monks, book of nine swords peeps) It is possible that Bards fall into a class all there own, the magic of language perhaps, but other wise... That is all of the different types of Magic that I am aware of in the 3.x/pathfinder universe. I hope this helps.

ben-zayb
2013-04-17, 11:58 PM
Well, I would say that there is nature magic(Druids, Shaman, Spirit shamen, Rangers, Blighters, etc), Holy magic(Clerics, favored souls, paladins, Archivers, etc), Arcane magic(Sorcerers, Wizards, Warlocks, Dread Necromancers, etc), Truename magic(Trunamers + Pr.C., + Words of Creation), Vestige binding(Binders, + Pr.C.s), Shadow Magic(Shadow mages + Pr.C.s), Incarnum(Totomists, soulborn, incarnate), and the gray area, Ki Magic(Monks, book of nine swords peeps) It is possible that Bards fall into a class all there own, the magic of language perhaps, but other wise... That is all of the different types of Magic that I am aware of in the 3.x/pathfinder universe. I hope this helps.

Pretty much these, and add Psionic magic (Psion, Wilder, Ardent, etc) to that as well.

The problem I see with these classification is the possible overlap. Say, Warlock power source. This can be nature (fey), unholy magic (demon), holy magic (celestial), or frankly anything you can come up with if your DM is cool with that. Dread Necromancers, blackguard, etc may also be either arcane and divine magic, respectively, or unholy magic.

Just to Browse
2013-04-18, 02:06 AM
Pshaw, I am the DM. So I'll start a list, categorized in a way that kind of makes sense to me.

Ninjadeadbeard
2013-04-18, 02:16 AM
I notice Truenaming isn't on your list.

What the [REDACTED] is the matter with you!? Best Magic Ever. :smallcool:

Just to Browse
2013-04-18, 02:20 AM
I notice Truenaming isn't on your list.

What the [REDACTED] is the matter with you!? Best Magic Ever. :smallcool:

Ah! You're right... I guess that's a self-made power, right? You study how to pronounce the words, so it would make sense as something that comes with training.

Deepbluediver
2013-04-18, 10:37 AM
I'd like to help out, but I'm honestly very confused on how you are dividing things up.

It seems sort of like you are trying to work out the different ways people can develop or obtain magical or psuedo-magical powers from a storytelling perspective. And then there are lines like "Dragon Stuff", which I don't know what they mean, or why it isn't listed with the "Magic from Monsters".
Better descriptions for how each category is determined might help.


Something like...

Summoning Magic: You call forth specific, living creatures to aid you, either willingly or through compulsion. They are free willed and may have their own agendas or motivations.

Built Magic: Power derived from building constructs, animating undead, or crafting magical devices. In essence, anything that is a tool completely under your control. It won't turn on you like a summoned creature might, but it also won't act without direct guidance.

Bloodline Magic: Inherently magic because of your heritage, like a dragon, elf, beholder, etc, or are just human with special characteristics, like sorcerers or psions. It's magic that can't really be lost because it's part of you, always, but it also has limits that are built in.

Developed Magic: Standard arcane Wizardry, plus things like Ki or Supersenses, that anyone can use, and are learned or strengthened through study, practice, and training.

Granted Magic: Divine power, White and Black magic, etc. A much more powerful being has granted you a sliver of thier power to use as you see fit, which can be to heal, to harm, or anything in between. It's "your" power for as long as you have it, but it can be recalled if you piss off your patron.


That's 5 different types, sort of, let me know if I'm heading in right direction, or am completely missing the mark.

Thugorp
2013-04-18, 11:07 AM
I'm trying to define what the major types of magic are for a homebrew high-magic, all-caster campaign.

Not like evocation, enchantment, etc. but more along the lines of shadow magic, fire magic, demon binding, holy smiting, that sort of thing. They should be on the smaller side in scope (e.g. Fire Magic is more appropriate than Elemental Magic, Mind Control is more appropriate than Psychic), and I'm trying to pick out the top 6 most interesting ones to focus on first.

So what does the Playground think? What kinds of magic are there, and which are the most important/interesting from a player's perspective?

Magic from Monsters:

Fey
Demons
Angels
Genies
Wildshaping
Communing with Spirits
Pact Magic


Mental Magic:

Astral
Mind Control
Ki
Telekinesis
Lasers


Granted Magic:

Smiting Powers
Divine Health
Power Rangers-style cohorts
White/Black Lasers
Mending Wounds
Summoning Minions


Self-Made Powers:

Dragon Stuff
Artifice, Golem-Crafting
Alchemy
Keen Senses
Truenaming
Bard stuff


I have a couple of questions about your list. First, Why isn't dragon stuff on your monster magic list(maybe you should explain your fluff for each magic you have so far and we will be able to help you with more.) Second, I don't remember the power rangers really getting cohorts. What does power rangers type cohorts mean? Three, are you sure you don't mean low magic? You are clearly limiting the amount of magic each caster would be able to use, to one specific aspect of one specific school of magic, in some cases not even magic. Even if this type of magic was everywhere it would still in many cases would still be low magic when compared to standard D&D.
Also, have you read the Grim-nowar series?(Hard magic and its sequel)
Finally, I am not sure we are getting quite what advice you want? It seems like you already have a pretty strong Idea for what you want to do so... what is it you need?(That isn't meant as a barb, it is an actual question, we want to help. :-) )


Pretty much these, and add Psionic magic (Psion, Wilder, Ardent, etc) to that as well.

The problem I see with these classification is the possible overlap. Say, Warlock power source. This can be nature (fey), unholy magic (demon), holy magic (celestial), or frankly anything you can come up with if your DM is cool with that. Dread Necromancers, blackguard, etc may also be either arcane and divine magic, respectively, or unholy magic.

I actually didn't include Psionics, because that isn't magic. Psionics are Psychic powers, powers of the mind not eldritch lore or blood, or divine gift. it is simply separate.

also I am fairly certain the books state that the blackguard is divine(which is why they later made the hexblade) and that the dread necromancer is archane. If I am wrong please correct me.

Just to Browse
2013-04-18, 01:20 PM
I have a couple of questions about your list. First, Why isn't dragon stuff on your monster magic list(maybe you should explain your fluff for each magic you have so far and we will be able to help you with more.)I tend to associate Dragon-related powers with heritage (Dragonborn, D&D kobold sorcerers) and the other powers with warlock-style grants. But outsider-touched is another power source, so I'll toss that up there.


Second, I don't remember the power rangers really getting cohorts. What does power rangers type cohorts mean?I'm talking about the giant mechs they summon. Like the huge blue triceratops, the red T-Rex, the yellow (pink?) pterodactyl.


Three, are you sure you don't mean low magic? You are clearly limiting the amount of magic each caster would be able to use, to one specific aspect of one specific school of magic, in some cases not even magic. Even if this type of magic was everywhere it would still in many cases would still be low magic when compared to standard D&D. Absolutely not. While the Schools are going to be more restrictive, a given player isn't going to be forced to only choose one, but they will build characters out of those. So a player who wants to be a balor would pick up Fiendish Heritage and Fire Magic. A player who wants to be a Fist of the Forest can pick up Ki, Communing With Spirits, and Divine Health.


Also, have you read the Grim-nowar series?(Hard magic and its sequel)I have not, is it high magic?


Finally, I am not sure we are getting quite what advice you want? It seems like you already have a pretty strong Idea for what you want to do so... what is it you need?(That isn't meant as a barb, it is an actual question, we want to help. :-) )Yeah, it seems my point isn't getting across. What I'm looking for are specific fantasy magic tropes so that I can homebrew sets of powers for them. I don't care about them adhering to the current D&D standards because I'm making everything up, so if you have any magical concepts that you don't see in the list, that's what I'm looking for.

I actually didn't include Psionics, because that isn't magic. Psionics are Psychic powers, powers of the mind not eldritch lore or blood, or divine gift. it is simply separate.[/quote]I'm calling anything beyond normal "magic" for this case, so psionics would apply. Also, the distinction between arcane and divine doesn't matter here because it's from scratch.

I should make this much clearer.

SamBurke
2013-04-18, 01:58 PM
Honestly, I think you're mixing where the magic COMES FROM, and what the magic is USED FOR. It might be a good idea to make two seperate lists.

Geordnet
2013-04-18, 03:28 PM
I'd look at the old game, Master of Magic.

Here's a link to a spell list:
http://zeugma440.free.fr/MoM/magic/magic.html


It basically had 5 different catagories, plus one "generic" one (Arcane). There was significant overlap in the various categories, which seems like what you're looking for.

The 5 main domains were:

Life:
White magic, essentially. Life magic had it strong in the healing and buffing, but lacked many summoning spells.

Nature:
Druid stuff, mainly. Nature had lots of good summons, and some good buffs. Elemental earth, in a sense.

Sorcery:
The most "Mystical" magic. Sorcery had control of winds, flying, speed, illusions, and anti-magic.

Chaos:
Straight-up blasting stuff, and fire magic. The most destructive spells are from the Chaos domain.

Death:
Necromancy, black magic. Darkness, fear, the undead...


Nature, Sorcery, and Chaos sort of form a triad, and the order I gave them in is a sort of good-evil axis. None had a monopoly on anything critical to success, although there were some monopolies (like Death with the undead).

Thugorp
2013-04-18, 11:10 PM
Honestly, I think you're mixing where the magic COMES FROM, and what the magic is USED FOR. It might be a good idea to make two seperate lists.

I got to agree here. We could give you hundreds of individual powers. But realistically the flavor comes MOSTLY from where the powers harken not what they do. :-)

Thugorp
2013-04-18, 11:13 PM
quick addendum, my favorite individual power ever, is the ability to see whom is qualified for any particular task. As in you think of a task in your head, and then you can see an O over the head of the person best qualified for that task, and an X over all the people who are strait up unqualified for the task.
second most favorite power, the ability to see what people had for lunch two days ago.

Yitzi
2013-04-19, 12:19 AM
I would say that magic can be classified into four categories:

-Invoking another being to do the job for you (and then they could use one of the other methods, or do it nonmagically). This is what's done by clerics and druids and the like, and can be subdivided based on the nature of the being.
-Taking magical energy from the environment (or other planes) and forming it into spells. This can be subdivided by the type of energy used and (closely related) its source.
-Forming ambient magic into new forms. (These two together would comprise what wizards and sorcerers and the like do; I'll let you decide what classes do which.) This can be subdivided by the type of new forms used (which would determine the effects.)
-Using your own personal energies. This covers psionics, ki, etc., and can be subdivided by the type of energy used.

Just to Browse
2013-04-21, 07:40 PM
Honestly, I think you're mixing where the magic COMES FROM, and what the magic is USED FOR. It might be a good idea to make two seperate lists.

Certainly that would be a good idea, but they're close enough in my mind that I'm just going to wrap them together. Especially because some things get fuzzy (when I have demon pacts for lightning magic, should I be able to get minor demon summoning in addition to lightning? What happens when my pact with demons to summon demons and my demon-summoning powers overlap? What are the restrictions on each source contributing to each power? How on earth do I explain demon-binding from the earth?) and I just don't want to juggle the boundless contingent flavor discrepancies.