[3.5] Making an Aristocrat a Threat

[Thurbane]

Hey all...

If you had to work in the confines of making a Human Aristocrat a credible threat, how would you go about it?

Aiming for a CR of about 7 to 9. The only set variables are that Race is Human and the only class levels allowed are Aristocrat (NPC class). Other than that, templates, tweaking feats and gear (within acceptable NPC WBL) etc. are fine. You can also get "free" Vile feats (1/5 levels) by assuming the character worships an Elder Evil. Known cheese and abuse of skills and feats is fine.

Assume elite array for stats.

It's part thought exercise, part inspiration for a NPC in an upcoming campaign.

Cheers - T

[hymer]

UMD. At CR 7, he would be level 8, so he could have 5½ ranks in UMD. Make Charisma his priority stat, take Skill Focus (UMD), and you're up to about +11. Get charisma boosts to go further, and a custom item to get him a nice big (+5 to +10) Insight bonus (and which can only be used by the rightful heir to that noble line). Plenty of scrolls and wands of various kinds. Then have him act as a veritable tier1.

Edit: Oh, if you're short on wealth for his stuffs, have there be some encounters ahead of him which yield less wealth, and transfer the goodies to this encounter.

2nd edit: I don't disagree with those further down suggesting that the CR system doesn't do very well with NPC classes, btw. I'm just following the rules in my DMG.

[The Boz]

Leadership is the first thing that comes to mind.

[nedz]

Aristocrats should be able to take levels in any class with amateur status such as Bard or Sorcerer, but definitely not "trade" classes such as Wizard or Cleric — far too common. The exception are martial classes such as Marshal.

[Thurbane]

For my purposes, I'm talking Aristocrat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/aristocrat.htm) as in the NPC class...

[Ashtagon]

For my purposes, I'm talking Aristocrat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/aristocrat.htm) as in the NPC class...

To make him CR 7-9, you'd need to make him character level 20.

[Demorden]

Hey all...

If you had to work in the confines of making a Human Aristocrat a credible threat, how would you go about it?

Aiming for a CR of about 7 to 9. The only set variables are that Race is Human and the only class levels allowed are Aristocrat (NPC class). Other than that, templates, tweaking feats and gear (within acceptable NPC WBL) etc. are fine. You can also get "free" Vile feats (1/5 levels) by assuming the character worships an Elder Evil. Known cheese and abuse of skills and feats is fine.

Assume elite array for stats.

It's part thought exercise, part inspiration for a NPC in an upcoming campaign.

Cheers - T

A credible threat, or specifically a credible combat threat?

[Amnestic]

To make him CR 7-9, you'd need to make him character level 20.

I concur.

20th level Aristocrat:
BAB +15, Fort +6, Ref +6, Will+12, 20d8 (90HP), 4+IntMod skill points per level, 220,000gp (WBL)

Arrange stats as:
10 Str
8 Dex
12 Con
14 Int
13 Wis
15 Cha

He might get above CR9 simply by virtue of his WBL, but compare him to the Frost Giant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/giant.htm), Bone Devil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm) or the Androsphinx (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sphinx.htm) (all CR9) and our friendly Aristocrat doesn't do too well, even at 20HD.

[Yahzi]

If you had to work in the confines of making a Human Aristocrat a credible threat, how would you go about it?
Give him an army.

He should have a high CHR and Diplomacy skill, and should be surrounded by at least twenty 5th level fighters, all of whom have +1 weapons and armor.

An aristocrat without an army is a servant. As in, your butler.

[Eslin]

UMD. At CR 7, he would be level 8, so he could have 5½ ranks in UMD. Make Charisma his priority stat, take Skill Focus (UMD), and you're up to about +11. Get charisma boosts to go further, and a custom item to get him a nice big (+5 to +10) Insight bonus (and which can only be used by the rightful heir to that noble line). Plenty of scrolls and wands of various kinds. Then have him act as a veritable tier1.

Edit: Oh, if you're short on wealth for his stuffs, have there be some encounters ahead of him which yield less wealth, and transfer the goodies to this encounter.

2nd edit: I don't disagree with those further down suggesting that the CR system doesn't do very well with NPC classes, btw. I'm just following the rules in my DMG.

I think this guy has it about right. An intelligent, wealthy human decides to use UMD and magic items in general to make himself more powerful, it works absolutely fine - especially since he'll likely be able to tailor his abilities to his opponents.

Regarding other CR 9 creatures - wand of shivering touch/spectral hand for the sphinx as well as something to ignore fear, scrolls of dismissal, see invisibility and greater invisibility for the devil.

[BWR]

If you're talking about turning an Aristocrat (class) into a credible combat threat, you're doing it wrong. Aristocrats are leaders and commanders of others; they have people for fighting. Getting in combat means they are likely screwed. Sure, they might have a few nifty surprises up their sleeve, the kind that comes with having money and powerful friends, but they should not pose a serious threat in combat. That's what heroic classes are for.

What they should have are lots of followers. Mooks, soldiers, powerful cohorts, lieutenants, allies in the local aristoracy, powerful politicians who owe them favors, a brother who's an archmage, etc.
Give them a couple of days and your name is mud in their community. Give them a sword in hand and they are laughable.
Let them work their stuff and no inn-keeper will have an empty room, no merchant will buy or sell to you, local constaublary harrass you for no reason, get you tangled up in pointless bureaucrasy on trumped up charges, and if you do anything but meekly submit to this treatment you will soon have the full might of the country bearing down on you.

[mangosta71]

To be a credible combat threat, the aristocrat hires a team of highly-skilled assassins and goes elsewhere while the party fights them.

[WhatBigTeeth]

Intimidating Strike+Wild Cohort+Master of Poisons+Imperious Command?

[Fouredged Sword]

Sir Hubert McClarin
Prince of Dogs

Hubert is a cruel man. He is vicious and mean, but he dislikes getting his own hands dirty.

Instead he uses his dogs. He breeds a particularly nasty breed of magebred Warbeast dog.

Hubert is a Aristocrat 7 with 5 ranks in handle animal and a +4 charisma. His feats are Wild Cohort, Animal Affinity, Skill focus Handle Animal, and leadership.

In combat he simply drops the leads of his four magebred warbeast riding dogs. These are medium animals with 3HD, 22Str, and 20 Con. They are each CR 3 each. They used their 3rd level feat on Improved natural armor. They are equipped with studded leather armor.

He uses his actions to direct his dogs to better focus on weak targets. His fifth and favored dog (his wold cohort) remains at his side to attack anyone who would threaten him.

If encountered on the hunt he is accompanied by his huntsman, Smee, and a pair of falconers (ranger 1 followers). Smee is a level 5 ranger who's animal companion is a riding dog. Smee holds the leads for another two dogs and helps in directing the dogs and wields a longbow to fight.

The falconers each carry a magebred warbeast falcon. These are sent after any target who stays at range and claw at faces of spellcasters.

You should be able to balance this encounter from CR6 to CR9ish as you so desire, adding animals or companions as needed. Zero magical equipment is needed.

[Psyren]

You could use the Noble from Dragonlance Campaign Settin; it's basically a PC version of the Aristocrat. Also, they get to choose one skill to be a class skill (which would obviously be UMD in this case.)

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Shivering Touch is a third level spell. Boom, he has a wand of shivering touch and max ranks in UMD. Other than that, he just needs some things to keep him safe while he paralyzes everyone with dex damage. Cloak of resistance, a miss chance, some juicy deflection bonus. . .

[nedz]

Aristocrats are reasonable skill monkeys, so you can use many of the well know skill abuses. I'll not document these here — since you probably already know them.

Some, possibly obvious, NPC types follow.

Country Gentleman
Loves his hunting and Fishing
Max out Ride, Survival, Handle Animal, Spot, Listen, Knowledge (Nature)
Add Track and either TWF or the Archery tree to Rapid Shot and you have a 2nd rate Ranger

City Gent
This guy knows what's going on in town.
Max out Appraise, Gather Information, Knowledge (local), Listen, Sense Motive, Spot
Knowledge equals power here — Stockbroker or Banker

Amateur Thespian
Max out Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate, Sense Motive, Perform
You won't take this guy seriously, until it's too late.

Art Critic
Max out Appraise, Bluff, Disguise, Forgery, Knowledge (history(Art))
Makes his living by forging old masters

Explorer
This guy travels to see the world
Max out Disguise, Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (the planes), Ride

[Thurbane]

Some excellent suggestions, thanks. :smallsmile:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Kobolds with levels in NPC classes have a CR equal to their character level -3. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/kobold.htm)

A Dragonwrought Kobold Dracolich Aristocrat 8 is CR 7.
A Vampire Kobold Aristocrat 8 is CR 7.

[Monticularis]

Aristocrats have all knowledge as class skills, so maybe knowledge devotion for combat. You can flavor it as a tactician or a scholarly aristocrat.

[Slipperychicken]

The Aristocrat offers the PCs a reward to go to the bottom of an absurdly-lethal dungeon to retrieve a plot item.

I'm sure that's somewhere in the top 10 causes of PC death :smallbiggrin:

[Skysaber]

Quintessential Aristocrat has some Aristocrat-only feats. One adds his Cha mod as a Deflection bonus to AC, another adds his Cha bonus to all saves.

But yeah, gotta agree with the others. Leadership all of the way (in fact, most of the feats and abilities in Quint Aristocrat are leadership focused).

Fighting a properly built aristocrat isn't an encounter. It's a campaign, as you carve your way through his seemingly endless hordes of followers and hirelings - and every time you so much as lay eyes on his he gets whisked off elsewhere to safety like some sort of comic book villain (because he's got the wealth, the people and connections to always have an escape route or two handy - and why settle for less than scrolls of teleport read for you by your handy wizard?).

In fact, if you think comic book villain you suddenly gain lots of tools to work with: kidnapping the PCs' parents, siblings or other relatives to use as hostages, messages to meet him at such-and-such a place at so-and-so time that turns out to be a death trap populated by mercenaries, etc.

[Seharvepernfan]

I'm sure most of this has been mentioned, but:

-minions/followers/hired-whatevers
-UMD+circlet of persuasion
-handle animal+magebred dire whatevers
-greater-than-WBL/pimped-out full-plate/halberd
-THE LAW
-half-fiend and spellwarped are my go-to templates, but CHA prodigy would be interesting on a character like this

[Zonugal]

How about someone like this?

http://jimhillmedia.com/mb/images/upload/potc-secrets-beckett-web.jpg

“There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed.”

Lord Stormwrought
Male Middle-Aged Human Aristocrat 10
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Human)
Hit Dice: 10d8-10 (70 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 12 (+0 armor, +2 Dex), touch 12, flat-footed 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+5
Attack: Rapier +5/+0 melee (1d6-2/18-20x2; slashing)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: --
Special Qualities: --
Resistances: Immunity to Mental-Effects
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +5
Abilities: Str 7, Dex 14, Con 11, Int 16, Wis 6, Cha 14
Skills: Bluff +15 (13 ranks +2 cha), Diplomacy +22 (13 ranks +2 cha +6 synergy +1 polite), Gather Information +9 (5 ranks +2 cha +2 synergy), Knowledge (Arcana) +11 (7 ranks +3 int +1 absent-minded), Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) +5 (1 rank +3 int +1 absent-minded), Knowledge (Geography) +5 (1 rank +3 int +1 absent-minded), Knowledge (History) +5 (1 rank +3 int +1 absent-minded), Knowledge (Local) +17 (13 ranks +3 int +1 absent-minded), Knowledge (Nature) +5 (1 rank +3 int +1 absent-minded), Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) +8 (5 ranks +3 int +1 absent-minded), Knowledge (Religion) +5 (1 rank +3 int +1 absent-minded), Listen +9 (12 ranks -2 wis -1 absent-minded), Sense Motive +11 (13 ranks -2 wis), Spellcraft +7 (0 ranks +3 int +2 apprentice +2 synergy) and Use Magical Device +15 (13 ranks +2 cha).
Skill Tricks: Collector of Stories
Feats: Apprentice (Spellcaster) [1st], Mercantile Background [Human], Silver Tongue [Flaw], Favored in House [Flaw], Knowledge Devotion [3rd], Willing Deformity [5th], Leadership [6th], Landlord [9th] & Deformity (Madness) [10th].
Flaws & Traits: Feeble & Frail; Absent-Minded & Polite
Languages: Common, Drow Sign Language, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Orc, & Undercommon.

[Sivarias]

Sir Hubert McClarin
Prince of Dogs

Hubert is a cruel man. He is vicious and mean, but he dislikes getting his own hands dirty.

Instead he uses his dogs. He breeds a particularly nasty breed of magebred Warbeast dog.

Hubert is a Aristocrat 7 with 5 ranks in handle animal and a +4 charisma. His feats are Wild Cohort, Animal Affinity, Skill focus Handle Animal, and leadership.

In combat he simply drops the leads of his four magebred warbeast riding dogs. These are medium animals with 3HD, 22Str, and 20 Con. They are each CR 3 each. They used their 3rd level feat on Improved natural armor. They are equipped with studded leather armor.

He uses his actions to direct his dogs to better focus on weak targets. His fifth and favored dog (his wold cohort) remains at his side to attack anyone who would threaten him.

If encountered on the hunt he is accompanied by his huntsman, Smee, and a pair of falconers (ranger 1 followers). Smee is a level 5 ranger who's animal companion is a riding dog. Smee holds the leads for another two dogs and helps in directing the dogs and wields a longbow to fight.

The falconers each carry a magebred warbeast falcon. These are sent after any target who stays at range and claw at faces of spellcasters.

You should be able to balance this encounter from CR6 to CR9ish as you so desire, adding animals or companions as needed. Zero magical equipment is needed.

+1

along with aristocrats are campaigns with hordes of mooks