Wierd CHA for swordsage or monk?

[CyberThread]

Wasen't their some wierd feat or such that let monks or swordsages use charisma instead of wisdom?

[Drelua]

Wasen't their some wierd feat or such that let monks or swordsages use charisma instead of wisdom?

Yeah, there's Ascetic Mage from Complete Adventurer. Requires Improved Unarmed Strike and the ability to spontaneously cast second level spells. It's meant for Monk/Sorcerers, but it should work with Swordsages too.

[CyberThread]

oh hmm...that has some synagery, but not sure what to do with one level dip of swordsage

[Drelua]

Well, according to the incredibly useful X stat to Y bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) thread, that's the only way to make the AC bonus base itself off of Charisma instead of Wisdom. There are quite a few ways to get Charisma to AC, with the easiest one to probably being Paladin 2, unless that doesn't work with your alignment. Most of them are either spells, races with a lot of LA, or the second level of a Prestige Class.

[Vaz]

oh hmm...that has some synagery, but not sure what to do with one level dip of swordsage

I hadn't realised that it worked for a Swordsage. Use it to go for a Jade Phoenix Mage build.

[Prime32]

oh hmm...that has some synagery, but not sure what to do with one level dip of swordsageSwordsages don't get the AC bonus until lv2.

[RFLS]

Well, according to the incredibly useful X stat to Y bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) thread, that's the only way to make the AC bonus base itself off of Charisma instead of Wisdom. There are quite a few ways to get Charisma to AC, with the easiest one to probably being Paladin 2, unless that doesn't work with your alignment. Most of them are either spells, races with a lot of LA, or the second level of a Prestige Class.

Easier would actually be a 1 level dip into Battledancer, but it's in Dragon Compendium, so it might not be available.

Also, is there an ACF that gets Paladin's Cha -> AC? I wasn't aware of that. Cool. *adds to list of cool things*

[Vaz]

Yup; Champions of Valour, but it replaces "to Saves"; which may be more worthwhile in the long run against Save or Die spells. After all, your Charisma is not high; you need Charisma for Turn Undead other than that; and if you wanted to Turn Undead, you wouldn't be a Paladin. I cannot remember if it stacks with Armour, however. You could always use the Turn Undead pool for Divine Shield for Cha to Shield Bonus however, and use Hexblade 2 (with the companion) for the Cha to Saves.

[CyberThread]

Hmm...intresting mixes, to bad no charming the arrow melee like things though.

[WhatBigTeeth]

Also, is there an ACF that gets Paladin's Cha -> AC? I wasn't aware of that. Cool. *adds to list of cool things*
As a heads-up, that ACF is terrible. I can't recall the details off-hand, but it has a severe limit on how long it can be activated (something like 1 round/day unless your build really invests in paladin levels), and it may even require an action to initiate. It's very disappointing.

[GreenETC]

Would a Sorcerer/Swordsage/Jade Phoenix Mage actually be viable, or is it just too far behind to actually do anything?

[Ernir]

Would a Sorcerer/Swordsage/Jade Phoenix Mage actually be viable, or is it just too far behind to actually do anything?
You'd probably be able to hack enough power on it to be able to contribute at many tables, but I wouldn't call it a good use of Sorcerer, Swordsage, or JPM.

[WhatBigTeeth]

Would a Sorcerer/Swordsage/Jade Phoenix Mage actually be viable, or is it just too far behind to actually do anything?
If it can even just cast polymorph and teleport, it's drastically more powerful than half the classes in the game.

But having said that, it's going to be sketchy to play in the front lines as a gish for quite a few levels. The Swordsage/Sorcerer/JPM chassis just isn't stellar.

[Vaz]

Would a Sorcerer/Swordsage/Jade Phoenix Mage actually be viable, or is it just too far behind to actually do anything?

It wouldn't get 9ths IIRC.