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View Full Version : Silly idea: Potion of Gain Level?



Jon_Dahl
2013-04-19, 04:54 AM
Everybody loves Nethack, right?
What do you think about introducing Potion of Gain Level to D&D, in 3.x specifically? Should be a minor artifact? An epic potion? Or is it simply too tasteless?

LordErebus12
2013-04-19, 05:01 AM
Depends on how readily available they are.

id say one potion is enough for the entire group, no matter what, then becomes empty at the end of the group drinking from it, teleporting to another plane of existence, at which point it refills itself.

that way you only see one of them generally.

TuggyNE
2013-04-19, 05:06 AM
You could reasonably* have it as a minor artifact, since there is one of those already: the Deck of Many Things can level you up as soon as you next slay any foe.

Not sure how great an idea it is on the whole, though at least it's less disruptive than some other existing artifacts.


*OK, OK, using the DoMT as a baseline is a bad idea, but that's one of the least wacky things it can do.

Dumbledore lives
2013-04-19, 05:26 AM
I'd like it to be a legend amongst adventurers, a potion which makes you more powerful permanently. The party will hear about places that the potion might be, and go out and explore them. They will fight evil heroes and terrible monsters to find this treasure, and then at the very end of their journey they find a single does left, and fight each other for it. Once the final one left alive takes a drink they realize it's cursed, and lose a level. Then the GM laughs for days.

LordErebus12
2013-04-19, 05:28 AM
I'd like it to be a legend amongst adventurers, a potion which makes you more powerful permanently. The party will hear about places that the potion might be, and go out and explore them. They will fight evil heroes and terrible monsters to find this treasure, and then at the very end of their journey they find a single does left, and fight each other for it. Once the final one left alive takes a drink they realize it's cursed, and lose a level. Then the GM laughs for days.

thank you for my next adventure. :smallbiggrin:

Arcanist
2013-04-19, 05:32 AM
I'd like it to be a legend amongst adventurers, a potion which makes you more powerful permanently. The party will hear about places that the potion might be, and go out and explore them. They will fight evil heroes and terrible monsters to find this treasure, and then at the very end of their journey they find a single does left, and fight each other for it. Once the final one left alive takes a drink they realize it's cursed, and lose a level. Then the GM laughs for days.

YOU- YOU'RE A MONSTER! :smalleek:

CombatOwl
2013-04-19, 08:37 AM
There are plenty of example of level-raising items in d&d, including the DMT and the Netheril Scrolls from forgotten realms. Dragonlance also has a few examples of conditional level increases for clerics. In most cases, these level-raising items have dangers or strict conditions under which they function. For example, it might only work for one type of class, or might only work for a particular type of spellcaster, or it might require a particular day of the year to function. Or it could have dangers with it, like the DMT does.

inuyasha
2013-04-19, 08:37 AM
does anybody play the card game munchkin? In that game theres a card to gain a level

and in munchkin d20 they had a potion that made you gain 10 levels for the next 10 minutes

Yitzi
2013-04-19, 09:33 AM
I'd like it to be a legend amongst adventurers, a potion which makes you more powerful permanently. The party will hear about places that the potion might be, and go out and explore them. They will fight evil heroes and terrible monsters to find this treasure, and then at the very end of their journey they find a single does left, and fight each other for it. Once the final one left alive takes a drink they realize it's cursed, and lose a level. Then the GM laughs for days.

Careful...that's the sort of thing that can get the likes of Old Man Henderson sicced on you.

Tanuki Tales
2013-04-19, 09:37 AM
Careful...that's the sort of thing that can get the likes of Old Man Henderson sicced on you.

It's a classic "Head of Vecna".

It's the PC's damn fault for drinking it without getting it inspected.

Deepbluediver
2013-04-19, 09:58 AM
id say one potion is enough for the entire group, no matter what, then becomes empty at the end of the group drinking from it, teleporting to another plane of existence, at which point it refills itself.

There was another thread, a while back, with some very interesting artifacts and unique magic items, and one of them was very much like this. The potion bottle refilled itself, but a single person could only every drink from it 3 times, ever. (I forget exactly why) I'll try to find that thread.
(one of the items was also a sword that turned into a dragon or soemthing, if anyone knows what I'm talking about)

As a literary device, a one-time powerup style item can be interesting and enhance the story if done well (or just be regarded as an ass-pull/deus ex machina if done poorly) but I don't really think it has the same level of effect for a tabletop game.

Unless there is some obstacle that can't be overcome without leveling up, that will be made possible by the addition of a single new level, most players will just drink the potion as soon as they can, and move on, a little stronger than before. And of course, if there's only 1, then the entire party may fight over it (which can be a good or bad thing, depending heavily on your group).



A potion that just grants you an additional level is a nice perk from a mechanical POV, but from a storytelling perspective I don't think it will have a huge impact. If you want to make something like this in your game, I would put a little more effort into making it significant and interesting.

Here is my suggestion:

Potion of Past Lives
This blue glass bottle is about the size of an adult's hand, and is covered in swirls and intricate designs which seem to hint at shapes and pictures that you can never quite figure out, no matter how long you examine it.

If you try to pour out the contents of the bottle, only a few drops will spash onto the ground, but when some one goes to drink, the bottle will always be full. Drinking from the bottle immediately plunges your body into a deep and dreamless sleep for 1 hour, while your soul is pulled into an isolated demiplane. Here you must challenge and defeat a mysterious figure.

Most often the figure will demand a trial by combat, but sometimes will be open to a contest of skill or wits instead. The challenge can be of any kind and in any environment the figure/DM chooses. If you are beaten, you awaken in your own body once again, no worse off than before, but from that point on whenever you attempt to drink from the bottle it will contain only pure, cold, water.

The figure you must challenge will be relatively equal to your own level of strength, and if you defeat them they reveal themselves to be an ancient ancestor of yours, and will impart to you both power and knowledge in the form of 1 level of a prestige class, of either your or your ancestor's (DM's) choice that is appropriate for you. [i.e. casters get a caster-appropriate PrC, Melee'rs get a melee-oriented one, etc] You can ignore and prerequisites for PrC's gained in this manner, assuming your DM approves the PrC for use in the game.

If you defeat your ancestor's spirit, you awaken with your new level and HD, and fully recovered as if from a full night's rest. Once at least 24 hours have passed, you may again drink from the bottle, and challenge another of your ancestors, but each time you do so they become stronger.
The first time you drink from the bottle your challenger is equal to your ECL, but each subsequent time they have an ECL 25% greater, stacking. [so if you are level 10 the first time you drink, they will be level 10. The second time you will be level 11 (having gained at least one level) and they will be level 14. If you drink a third time you will be level 12, and they will have an ECL of 18, etc.]

If you are even beaten by your ancestor, you may never again drink from the bottle (or rather, you can, but it will only be water that you taste).




Something like that gets you what you want, I think, but it a lot more memorable and interesting than a potion that just goes "ding! you level up!".

Yitzi
2013-04-19, 09:59 AM
It's a classic "Head of Vecna".

It's the PC's damn fault for drinking it without getting it inspected.

Sure, if you want the PCs to take the time out to investigate everything they come across.

And even then, the GM laughing about it is bad taste.

drew2u
2013-04-19, 10:01 AM
(pathfinder rules)
If we look at it of starting gold packages are what a character of that level should have of GP-worth by that level, then we should be able to reverse-engineer a GP:XP ratio.

For (rough) instance:

2nd level - 2,000XP : 1,000GP = 2xp per 1 gp.

so were a potion be made using GP as the "spell level" to increase XP, then a potion of 2nd level would be (1,000x2x50=100,000gp). Upon drinking a Potion of 2nd Level, the character gains 2,000 experience points.

20th level - 3,600,000XP : 880,000GP = 4.09XP per 1 gp.
Potion of 20th Level: 880m GP - upon drinking a Potion of 20th Level, the character gains 3,600,000 experience points.

Of course this is all just silly, using gold to buy experience points, but why not, if the game is going to be silly-that-way anyways? :)

Tanuki Tales
2013-04-19, 10:03 AM
Sure, if you want the PCs to take the time out to investigate everything they come across.

It's a minor artifact. You don't use items of that kind of potency willy nilly, like they're just your common Healing Potion from the bargain bin of the local backwater Magic Mart.


And even then, the GM laughing about it is bad taste.

It's poor taste depending on the context of how the players ended up treating one another over the squabble for the thing.

If they devolved into a Bob/Dave/Brian tug of war, or, even worse, a Newt/Stevil/Weird Pete open warfare, then the GM laughing is in taste.

Yitzi
2013-04-19, 10:13 AM
It's a minor artifact. You don't use items of that kind of potency willy nilly, like they're just your common Healing Potion from the bargain bin of the local backwater Magic Mart.

Why would a minor artifact be more likely to be cursed than something more common?


If they devolved into a Bob/Dave/Brian tug of war, or, even worse, a Newt/Stevil/Weird Pete open warfare, then the GM laughing is in taste.

Ok, I'll grant that.

Tanuki Tales
2013-04-19, 10:16 AM
Why would a minor artifact be more likely to be cursed than something more common?

Because "Head of Vecna".

Just because its totted as a miracle artifact and you followed all the clues to where it was located, does not mean that:

A. There are no downsides to its use or that what you heard about it was the truth.
B. That you found the genuine article and not a cursed replica left there or that was spread far and wide just to mess with adventurers in revenge.




Ok, I'll grant that.

I was afraid you wouldn't get the reference, but good. :smallsmile:

Geordnet
2013-04-19, 11:28 AM
Once the final one left alive takes a drink they realize it's cursed, and lose a level.
No, a cursed potion of gain level makes you rise up through the ceiling! :smalltongue:

Yitzi
2013-04-19, 11:59 AM
Because "Head of Vecna".


That's an example of clever roleplaying by one party against another; it is not an example of what the GM should do with the vastly greater resources he has available.

"Head of Vecna" is "something is claimed to be an artifact when it's really nothing, but attempting to use it is deadly because it's a fake", not "cursed artifact."

If a GM played "head of Vecna" on a party, they'd be right to be upset at him. It's only when one group plays it on another equally resourced group that it's good.

Tanuki Tales
2013-04-19, 12:13 PM
-Snip-

And you're missing my point and getting hung up on unimportant specifics.

I'm using the HoV as an example of something turning against the PCs. The fact that it was set up by one party against another isn't important. The fact that an "artifact" turned out to not be as it was thought by the party that ran afoul of it is.

Just because you hear legends, follow the trail and find the loot doesn't mean you weren't being landed hook, line and sinker. If you take things at face value and assume nothing bad will happen to your character because you're on "Quest for Awesome Artifact", then that's your own death you're bringing down on your head.

And it's a wee hypocritical to say it's alright for PCs to do a behavior but its not alright for the GM to do it. While the PCs don't have access to UNLIMITED COSMIC POWER, anything that they are validly allowed to do is also something the GM is allowed to do in turn and as well.

Yitzi
2013-04-19, 12:25 PM
And you're missing my point and getting hung up on unimportant specifics.

If you think that "DM did it" as opposed to "another party did it" is an unimportant specific, then you are completely missing my point.

The DM (or, more generally, GM) is there to provide a fun gaming experience to the players. For that purpose, he has complete control over the game world. If he uses that control to "cheat", via creating hazards that the PCs can't be expected to know, or can't counter, then that makes the game not-fun, which means that he is failing in his job.

Now, he can have NPCs pull that sort of trick (if such is in their character, and they have a motive), but then it has to be done with the resources that those NPCs would have, which usually does not include creating minor artifacts.

Tanuki Tales
2013-04-19, 12:42 PM
-Snip-

Obviously we just have different tastes and opinions on the definitions of "fun" and the responsibilities and expectations of a GM.

Durazno
2013-04-19, 02:25 PM
The PrC potion gives me a notion - what if there were potions that only offered levels in specific classes? You know, like a barbarian potion and a ranger potion and a sorcerer potion?

Depending on the degree of investment in the characters, it might be good clean fun to have the wizard drink up only to gain d12 hit points, proficiency with martial weapons and some anger-management problems. Oops!

Gorfnod
2013-04-19, 02:43 PM
I much prefer the old magical item that really isn't magical after all idea.

Something along the lines of this.

Players hear about magical potion that can raise their power permanently. They search for clues and eventually find the tome of some long lost fountain of might. They have to fight through hordes of monsters, mountains of traps, and in the end the fountain they drink from just ends up being water. But SURPRISE, all the monsters and traps and searching have made them stronger and faster and smarter and what not. So DM says DING, level up. Magical fountain of leveling indeed.

Geordnet
2013-04-19, 02:55 PM
Players hear about magical potion that can raise their power permanently. They search for clues and eventually find the tome of some long lost fountain of might. They have to fight through hordes of monsters, mountains of traps, and in the end the fountain they drink from just ends up being water. But SURPRISE, all the monsters and traps and searching have made them stronger and faster and smarter and what not. So DM says DING, level up. Magical fountain of leveling indeed.
Now that would be a good trick to pull. The PCs are tricked into doing their own dirty work. :smallbiggrin:

Deepbluediver
2013-04-19, 05:07 PM
Players hear about magical potion that can raise their power permanently. They search for clues and eventually find the tome of some long lost fountain of might. They have to fight through hordes of monsters, mountains of traps, and in the end the fountain they drink from just ends up being water. But SURPRISE, all the monsters and traps and searching have made them stronger and faster and smarter and what not. So DM says DING, level up. Magical fountain of leveling indeed.
Now that would be a good trick to pull. The PCs are tricked into doing their own dirty work. :smallbiggrin:

Eh, I dunno. It's not like without a super-secret treasure to find the PC's are just gonna sit around twiddling their thumbs. Going out, killing, monsters and leveling up are all things they do normally, so the only real new part of this potential scenario is that you lied about how much of a reward their getting.

Its the kind of thing that you need to be careful with, unless you never want the players to take your storylines seriously again.

Ir0npanda
2013-04-19, 05:47 PM
What about a potion that causes you to age at a faster rate but also to gain proportionally more XP from all sources?

So if your dudes needed to stop some massive BBEG from causing the apocalypse before the year ends, they would sacrifice the duration of their lives in order to be able to level up fast enough to pose a threat to the baddie.

LordErebus12
2013-04-19, 05:51 PM
What about a potion that causes you to age at a faster rate but also to gain proportionally more XP from all sources?

So if your dudes needed to stop some massive BBEG from causing the apocalypse before the year ends, they would sacrifice the duration of their lives in order to be able to level up fast enough to pose a threat to the baddie.

Something Like this? Giving up your health to save the world (of warcraft) (http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104291/living-to-win)

Geordnet
2013-04-19, 06:45 PM
Going out, killing, monsters and leveling up are all things they do normally, so the only real new part of this potential scenario is that you lied about how much of a reward their getting.
The thing is though, you didn't lie. The treasure you presented them with was new levels, and you gave it to them. Just not in the way they expected. :smalltongue:

It certainly is in much better taste than a "Head of Vecna".


(The point is that it's ironic, and gets the players to laugh at themselves by fooling them without actually hurting them.)

Deepbluediver
2013-04-19, 07:09 PM
The thing is though, you didn't lie. The treasure you presented them with was new levels, and you gave it to them. Just not in the way they expected. :smalltongue:

It certainly is in much better taste than a "Head of Vecna".


(The point is that it's ironic, and gets the players to laugh at themselves by fooling them without actually hurting them.)

First of all, I never said anything about the head of Vecna deal, which I think is a mildly amusing story, but is kind of frustrating for the people who are the butt of the joke.

But my point is, in a normal adventure, the rewards are experience, and treasure (gold, items, etc). In your scenario, at best, they will earn exactly the same thing, except for the fact that you've lied to them about it. If they investigate the rumors or plot hooks, and every line you feed them indicates that there is an actual treasure, then you lying to them. At best, it is a lie of omission or misdirection, but it's still a lie.
Players are paranoid enough already without needing solid evidence that the GM is actively plotting against them.

Why not spend all that time you would have put into tricking the players to just come up with a REAL adventure?

Also, FYI, the definition of irony is "a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated. " emphasis added
Since your stated goal was supposedly to reward the player with levels, and that's what you did, then I think it's the exact opposite of ironic. It's just the DM having a laugh at the player's expense.

Arcanist
2013-04-19, 07:24 PM
I'm not sure if anyone has considered using this adventure hook as a quest that gives the surviving member a level... and than takes it away. If anything it mostly devolves into a Party trust experiment. For an interesting comparison of this, look over the Dead Money DLC from New Vegas where you have to trust your companions, who are complete strangers, in order to escape the dreaded Siera Madra :smallamused:

Tanuki Tales
2013-04-19, 07:30 PM
You know, I don't think the party gets cheated or lied to if the reward they're left with at the end is really the shared memories, experiences, relationships and friendships they forged on their way to attaining the mystical level ups that amounted to being Karin's "Sacred Water" training.

It's cliche and hokey, but there ya go. *shrugs*

Jon_Dahl
2013-04-20, 12:30 AM
Personally, I never screw my players over. I never fudge and I can be hard and deadly, but I don't make them fight for nothing.

If they set out to find the Potion of Gain Level, they will find it they don't fail to overcome the obstacles.

Arcanist
2013-04-20, 12:59 AM
Personally, I never screw my players over. I never fudge and I can be hard and deadly, but I don't make them fight for nothing.

If they set out to find the Potion of Gain Level, they will find it they don't fail to overcome the obstacles.

but who gets it? how could you possibly fairly distribute such an item?

LordErebus12
2013-04-20, 01:02 AM
but who gets it? how could you possibly fairly distribute such an item?

the one who seems the strongest, overall. nerf the powerhouse, never the healer. the most greediest one works.

Omnicrat
2013-04-20, 02:50 AM
I'm not sure if anyone has considered using this adventure hook as a quest that gives the surviving member a level... and than takes it away. If anything it mostly devolves into a Party trust experiment. For an interesting comparison of this, look over the Dead Money DLC from New Vegas where you have to trust your companions, who are complete strangers, in order to escape the dreaded Siera Madra :smallamused:

No... You really don't have to trust them at all, You just can't kill them right away because you're all linked via bomb collars. You can in fact wind up killing everyone once the collars are (mostly) out of the picture.

Jon_Dahl
2013-04-20, 06:38 AM
but who gets it? how could you possibly fairly distribute such an item?

They can't. They just have to make a deal. Probably one that will effect future loot. I've found that it's better to have one strong item per adventure than an assortment of mediocre items per adventure. It evens out in the end.

Calmar
2013-04-20, 07:22 AM
In Icewind Dale II there is a useful manual called How To Be An Adventurer (http://www.gamebanshee.com/showshot.php?/icewinddaleii/equipment/images/howtobeanadventurer.jpg) that does a similar thing like the OP's potion. :smallsmile: