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Unbalanced
2013-04-19, 05:43 AM
Hey guys. First post. Be kind.

First of all. Hi to everyone.
I've just finished my first D&D 3.5 campaign (levels 1-17)
And we're now looking to base the next one in the PF system.

I've been given the role of the rogue (trapfinder).
We have a team of 3 and the other members are a Summoner (caster) and a Chirurgon Alchemist (healer). Now, being that there's no defined tank/damage dealer, we all need to do a bit. I'm looking at being a front-line combatant and need to make sure that my build is up to that. So basically looking at maximizing chance to hit and AC, with damage falling by the wayside because sneak attack will be the main damage dealer. I've also got a little bit of character in there which is non-negotiable... Ie. wielding either gauntlet/s, spiked gauntlet/s, or punching dagger/s.

Here's my proposed build...

Human (Dual Talent)
Rogue

18 point buy-
STR 12
DEX 19 (+2)
CON 15 (+2)
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 12

Level 1-
Attack: +4 (BAB +0, Dex +4)
Damage: 1D3+1 (gauntlet)
AC: +4
Sneak Attack: 1D6
FEAT- Weapon Finesse

Level 2-
Attack: +3/+3 (BAB +1/+1, Dex +4/+4, TWF -2/-2)
Damage: 1D4+1/1D3 (punching dagger & gauntlet)
AC: +4
Rogue talent: Combat trick (two weapon fighting)

Level 3-
Attack: +4/+4 (BAB +2/+2, Dex +4/+4, TWF -2/-2)
Damage: 1D4+1/1D3 (punching dagger & gauntlet)
AC: +5
Sneak Attack: 2D6
FEAT- Dodge

Level 4-
+1 DEX
Attack: +7/+7 (BAB +3/+3, Dex +5/+5, Weapon Focus +1/+1, TWF -2/-2)
Damage: 1D4+1/1D4 (punching dagger x2)
AC: +6
Rogue talent: Weapon training (punching dagger)

Level 5-
Attack: +7/+7 (BAB +3/+3, Dex +5/+5, Weapon Focus +1/+1, TWF -2/-2)
Damage: 1D4+1/1D4 (punching dagger x2)
AC: +6 or +7
Sneak attack: 3D6
FEAT- Improved feint or Two weapon defense

Re'ozul
2013-04-19, 07:05 AM
The following was written before I saw you wanted to use punching daggers and the like. It concerns natural attacks.
If allowed you could go Catfolk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-catfolk) instead of human and choose claws.
Damage is the same at 1d4 but since its a primary natural atack you can do two attacks at full BAB. (+2 over the current)

Of course once you get iteratives this will lose in usefulness, but they also function as emergency weapons.

Furthermore, taking climber and scent alternate racial features can prove useful as well.

Are you using archetypes?
While they all take away uncanny dodge as a trapfinder the Burglar archetype can be useful (it allows you to fail harder at defusing a trap without setting it off)
Further I'd consider taking the Trap-Spotter Talent for an automatic perception check (DM-rolled usually) whenever you come within 10' of a trap.

Xerxus
2013-04-19, 07:11 AM
If that summoner knows his business then you do have a tank/damage dealer.

Unbalanced
2013-04-19, 07:17 AM
If that summoner knows his business then you do have a tank/damage dealer.

Yeah... Lets just say he doesn't.

Xerxus
2013-04-19, 08:04 AM
Looks like your point buy is messed up, I count 20 Pathfinder points. Assuming I'm wrong about that, I'd cut out the 2 strength points and put them in constitution, drop the dual talent, cut away 1 dex to get int 13, cry because of the miniscule amount of feats given compared to how many are needed, either get the swashbuckler archetype or one level of fighter in there, then start working on this line of feats in this order (interspersed with whatever):

Weapon Finesse
Two-Weapon Fighting
Combat Expertise
Two-Weapon Feint
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Improved Two-Weapon Feint

OR you make it so that you and the eidolon are always flanking one opponent at a time.

The two-weapon feinting style has the advantage of letting you fight competently on your own and rewarding you for focusing on upgrading one weapon almost exclusively - the offhand one.

Unbalanced
2013-04-19, 08:30 AM
Looks like your point buy is messed up, I count 20 Pathfinder points. Assuming I'm wrong about that, I'd cut out the 2 strength points and put them in constitution, drop the dual talent, cut away 1 dex to get int 13, cry because of the miniscule amount of feats given compared to how many are needed, either get the swashbuckler archetype or one level of fighter in there, then start working on this line of feats in this order (interspersed with whatever):

Weapon Finesse
Two-Weapon Fighting
Combat Expertise
Two-Weapon Feint
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Improved Two-Weapon Feint

OR you make it so that you and the eidolon are always flanking one opponent at a time.

The two-weapon feinting style has the advantage of letting you fight competently on your own and rewarding you for focusing on upgrading one weapon almost exclusively - the offhand one.

You're right. There is 20 points in there. My mistake.
Thanks for pointing that one out, haha.

Cross classing is a no go. GM frowns very heavily on it, and to be honest, I don't really think its required.
And the swashbuckler archetype is out because it removes the trapfinding class feature which is the whole reason I'm going as a rogue. Haha.

I basically plan on relying on either 1 of my 3 allies or one of my ally's summons being in constant flank with me to net me surprise attack bonuses. With a class like summoner, you'd think that would be pretty easy to work out. And I was thinking of grabbing the improved feint feat just for those rare instances that we couldn't manage this. The two weapon feint option I think is just too expensive (feat-wise) to be worthwhile...

Xerxus
2013-04-19, 08:40 AM
Well, improved feint compared with twoweapon feint + improved is one feat less, but it's a whole lot more bang for your buck!

Other than that, I avoid dodge like the plague unless I want to do whirlwind attacks or something similar. 1 AC is a lot at first, but you'll be sorry... Toughness being a prime candidate for a frontline rogue.

grarrrg
2013-04-19, 08:46 AM
I've been given the role of the rogue (trapfinder).
We have a team of 3 and the other members are a Summoner (caster) and a Chirurgon Alchemist (healer). Now, being that there's no defined tank/damage dealer, we all need to do a bit. I'm looking at being a front-line combatant and need to make sure that my build is up to that.

Hmmm...if only Rogues came with Full Bab and d10HD....

Oh, wait...they do!

Go with Ranger instead of Rogue.

The Trapper (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/trapper) archetype trades away Spellcasting, and gets Trapfinding and various bonuses when using/creating traps.

Urban Ranger (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/urban-ranger) trades away Favored Terrain and various other abilities, gaining Trapfinding and "Favored Community".

Given your low-end point buy, you may want to go Trapper, as then you don't have to worry about WIS for spellcasting.

Both still keep the normal Ranger Bonus feats.
Two Weapon Fighting (which you seem keen on) is one of the better trees, as you get to ignore Pre-Reqs, which lets you focus more on STR than DEX (you'll still want some DEX of course), make sure you take Double Slice (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/double-slice-combat---final) and Two-Weapon Rend (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/two-weapon-rend-combat---final) (when available).
The higher STR gets more to-hit AND damage, and the lower DEX (and Ranger prof.s) let you get away with wearing Medium Armor.

For Stats, basically switch around your original STR/DEX scores, maybe drop STR a notch to free up a couple more points elsewhere.
You may also want to bump INT up to 12 as Rangers get 2 less skills/level than Rogues do.

Blyte
2013-04-19, 09:13 AM
rogues on the front line take a lot of dirt naps. especially dual wielding ultimate fighter wanabee rogues. don't do it.

ranger(trapper + weapon and shield style) 2 + fighter(brawler) 3