How does friendly fire work with spells?

[Kafana]

I'm pretty sure that a fireball affects everyone in the area, friend or foe, but lets take a look at some other spells (and invocations), like Chilling Tentacles (or Evard's Black Tentacles if you're not familiar with the warlock) and Obscuring Myst.

I chose Chilling Tentacles because they deal 2d6 dmg per round to all characters in the area regardless of the characters being grappled or not. Now, I have three dilemmas with this spell: Does the cold dmg affect friendly characters? Does the reduced movement speed affect friendly characters? Do the tentacles grapple friendly characters? I think the answer to the first two is yes, while the answer to the last is no. However, this produces a new question: "If the caster were to switch sides via some magic affliction, who would the tentacles grapple, the original enemy or the new enemy (former allies)?"

Now, Obscuring Mist. The description states that everyone in it gets concealment from melee attacks (with a reach of 5ft) and total concealment from ranged attacks. However, is the mist one way? People looking from the outside can't see in, but people looking from the inside can see out?

Let's say there is an archer outside the mist. If I move from one corner of the mist to the other, does he know in which square I'm in?

Another scenario: Let's say I cast Obscuring Mist in front of myself and the archer is on the other side. Neither of us are in the mist, but it is between us. Do both of us get concealment?

Does Obscuring Mist function differently for friend, caster or foe?


No additional spells come to mind, but please write if there are any that can be difficult to asses how they work with friendly fire.

[Ranting Fool]

Most (but not all) spells work the same for friend, foe and yourself.

Damage spells like Fireball hit everyone in the area.

Fog spells effect everyone equally depending on where they stand in relation to it.

AoE spells like entangle or grease effect everyone in the area.

But some spells like bless effect "Friendly creatures within x" or spells like Ghouls Touch which make a nasty smell on the target which effects everyone except the caster of the spell (or those with no sense of smell)

You can get a feat (meta magic one I think but don't remember the name) which allows you to avoid hurting friends with spells like fireball.

[Ashtagon]

I'm pretty sure that a fireball affects everyone in the area, friend or foe, but lets take a look at some other spells (and invocations), like Chilling Tentacles (or Evard's Black Tentacles if you're not familiar with the warlock) and Obscuring Myst.

I chose Chilling Tentacles because they deal 2d6 dmg per round to all characters in the area regardless of the characters being grappled or not. Now, I have three dilemmas with this spell: Does the cold dmg affect friendly characters? Does the reduced movement speed affect friendly characters? Do the tentacles grapple friendly characters? I think the answer to the first two is yes, while the answer to the last is no. However, this produces a new question: "If the caster were to switch sides via some magic affliction, who would the tentacles grapple, the original enemy or the new enemy (former allies)?"

Now, Obscuring Mist. The description states that everyone in it gets concealment from melee attacks (with a reach of 5ft) and total concealment from ranged attacks. However, is the mist one way? People looking from the outside can't see in, but people looking from the inside can see out?

Let's say there is an archer outside the mist. If I move from one corner of the mist to the other, does he know in which square I'm in?

Another scenario: Let's say I cast Obscuring Mist in front of myself and the archer is on the other side. Neither of us are in the mist, but it is between us. Do both of us get concealment?

Does Obscuring Mist function differently for friend, caster or foe?


No additional spells come to mind, but please write if there are any that can be difficult to asses how they work with friendly fire.

Chilling tentacles: Not familiar with that spell. Sourcebook? Assuming it works like E's black tentacles, I'd say the tentacles affect all in the area. You control the overall spell's existence, but not the tentacles.

Obscuring Mist: It's two way. Can't see in or out. The archer outside won't know exactly where you are if you move after casting. If the mist is between you and an enemy, it obscures vision same as for any mundane large object.

[CaladanMoonblad]

AoE spells effect everything in that blast radius. So yes, Black Tentacles (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blackTentacles.htm) hits everyone. Unless a spell specifically mentions "allies" or "enemies" the spells are dumb and effect everything in their radius.

Obscuring Mist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/obscuringMist.htm) does not allow you to see outside of it. If there is 5 ft between you and an opponent, and both are in the mist, both get the 20% concealment bonus. If you are targeting someone at 10 ft or beyond, and both enemies are in the mist, they both get 50% concealment. What matters is who is in the mist and who is not. But anyone IN the mist is just as impeded as someone OUTSIDE of the mist.

If an archer is inside the mist, any targets outside the miss still get the 50% concealment... because the Obscuring Mist is causing visual loss of data. As a GM, I'd even require Listen checks to even target a specific square in the mist.

I've run Obscuring Mist recently; my players were not thrilled to be engaging in a game of Marco Polo to find their villain (who was adept at hiding/move silently).

EDIT: Ashtagon and Ranting Fool beat me to it. Was still typing while s/he hit Post.

[Kafana]

What about if I'm standing on the edge of the mist, and the enemy is say 30 feet away, outside the mist? I suppose he doesn't get total concealment, but he does know where I am, right (though I still have concealment)?

The idea is that I'm standing on the edge of the mist, I peek out to shoot a scorching ray at him, and I lean back into the mist. He knows where I'm standing (unless I move of course), but he still isn't sure how I'm facing, where are my arms etc. Is this a good assumption?

[Dayaz]

Friendly fire with spells is just like the friendly fire from bullets and grenades: It's not friendly.

Edvard's Black Tentacles can be, tho. My DM proved himself to me in a campaign where we had to fight a succubus and a ninja and a WoW Warlock, and when I cast the spell on her her only response was, "This is what you're into?"

This was because my character had turned her down hard when she was trying to get some pre-battle level drains in. Paranoia, it works :D

[Ashtagon]

What about if I'm standing on the edge of the mist, and the enemy is say 30 feet away, outside the mist? I suppose he doesn't get total concealment, but he does know where I am, right (though I still have concealment)?

The idea is that I'm standing on the edge of the mist, I peek out to shoot a scorching ray at him, and I lean back into the mist. He knows where I'm standing (unless I move of course), but he still isn't sure how I'm facing, where are my arms etc. Is this a good assumption?

D&D doesn't really "lean in and out" You're either in a square or you're not. In the above scenario, I'd personally rule that both people involved have partial concealment. (The principle being that if the line of sight path has to enter one space of mist, its partial; if the line enters two spaces, it's total.)

[ericgrau]

You could grab spring attack though and do something interesting, replacing obscuring mist with a smokestick if needed. Or a bow and shot on the run. But casting a standard action spell doesn't qualify for shot on the run. You could instead cast something that allows ranged Attack Actions, like flame shuriken IIRC. Or spring attack with held melee touch spells. Preferably something that gives multiple touches like chill touch so you don't have to keep spending turns replacing the touches.

[Fyermind]

Actually, D&D sort of does lean in and out, look at PHB chapter 8 on cover. To determine cover (and here I believe we can also assume concealment, You look at the relations of any of your corners to all of their corners. So if one of your corners is out of the fog (on the edge counts for this I believe), you target fine, but you will have concealment because the rest of your corners aren't.

[CaladanMoonblad]

You could grab spring attack though and do something interesting, replacing obscuring mist with a smokestick if needed. Or a bow and shot on the run. But casting a standard action spell doesn't qualify for shot on the run. You could instead cast something that allows ranged Attack Actions, like flame shuriken IIRC. Or spring attack with held melee touch spells. Preferably something that gives multiple touches like chill touch so you don't have to keep spending turns replacing the touches.

A Haste could give you the additional move to use Obscuring Mist that way, but seriously, a Wind Gust or Dispel Magic gets rid of it pretty quick. I don't know too many casters willing to spring 3 feats for concealment when there are spells like Blur and Blink to get the same mechanic.

However, for Fighter ranged characters, Spring Attack is awesome combined with Total Cover (useful against say, AoE spells like fireball)...

[ericgrau]

Not just 50% concealment, but also so you can't be easily targeted at all. Not without listen checks or blindsense or such. 98% of foes don't have dispel magic or gust of wind. Get armor of silent moves and even listen checks may fail, meaning foes without the right uncommon special abilities can be in trouble.

Because of the feats it would probably be easier for a fighter-ish type than a caster, or for a gish. But anyone can pull it off. Also works better if you coordinate with your party to make sure they have a similar level of defense.

[mregecko]

You could grab spring attack though and do something interesting, replacing obscuring mist with a smokestick if needed. Or a bow and shot on the run. But casting a standard action spell doesn't qualify for shot on the run. You could instead cast something that allows ranged Attack Actions, like flame shuriken IIRC. Or spring attack with held melee touch spells. Preferably something that gives multiple touches like chill touch so you don't have to keep spending turns replacing the touches.

There's a feat for that!

Mobile Spellcasting (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-adventurer--54/mobile-spell-casting--1973/)!!

One of my favorite feats ever, especially at high levels. Move+Cast as a standard action, which means you still have a move action after too.

Oh how I ruined my DM's days by casting Prismatic Sphere around myself, then popping in and out to plague the battlefield with spells.

Good times, good times.