[3.5] Creating effective utility characters

[SciChronic]

While rogues are amazing at covering most things outside of battle, i always feel that their extreme dependency on precision damage to deal any effective amount of damage at all made them become a real pain to play in campaigns that feature large amounts of enemies without discernible anatomies, or undead traits.

What solutions do you have to make a utility character that can effectively open locks, find and disable traps, as well as do scouting work (hide & move silently) yet still have some combat effectiveness without relying on precision damage at around level 9-10?

[Amphetryon]

Ranger and Barbarian have effective Trapfinding ACFs and can still contribute as normal in combat; if you find them effective in combat without the Trapfinding, you should find them well suited to your purposes.

Wizards get Knock, making them efficient at bypassing most traps while otherwise excelling as expected at a utility role, while Clerics can do likewise with the Kobold domain.

Druids can use their SNA spell line to deal with most traps.

Look up the "Lists of Stuff" for a comprehensive list of Trapfinding methods.

[Arc_knight25]

Multiclass ranger and take favoured enemy of whatever your running into. I know its not much but +2 is better then not getting your sneak.

Also there is crystal in MIC that help against undead. I think and extra 1d6? don't have the book with me unfotunatley. Also Deathstrike bracers. Buy 2 or 3 of em Sneak attacks all around.

[ericgrau]

I've had multiple characters magic and mundane that used 50 utility scrolls to handle every situation imaginable. A wand of invisibility may be important for your purposes.

Anyone with a 1 level rogue dip can find and disable traps just as well as a single classed rogue.

Locks are trivial. You can just break the obstacle with an adamantine weapon. Or carry a couple scrolls of knock if they're uncommon.

For a high damage face beater with utility you could get barbarian X / rogue 1 / sorcerer 1 / dragon disciple Y. Alternatively barbarian 1-2 / fighter 2 / rogue 1-2 / sorcerer 1 -2/ dragon disciple Y. Extra bonus: no multi-classing penalties. You can use plenty of scrolls and wands and yet casting isn't your main thing. Stabbing is. Oh, and you can find traps too. If you want you could grab track. The extra strength and so on more than makes up for lost BAB so you actually melee better than a single classed barbarian.

[kulosle]

My go to response is bard. Bards the best utility class. Huge amounts of buffs, can do most anything skill wise, you need to get trapfinding somewhere else unfortunately, and if you build them right are strictly better than sorcerers, you can thank heartfire fanner and sublime chord for that.

[SciChronic]

i think the best character i've theorycrafted was a martial rogue4/fighter2-x/dervish1-x. by taking flaws i would contribute through trips Jack B Quick (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869062/6_hits_to_1:_Jack_B._Quick) style, but possibly with dervish dance on top of it.

this way i was able to utilize the skill points from 4 levels in rogue to give myself a good chance at utility (at least traps and locks).

[Demorden]

I did it a couple of times. And it was fun.

Rogues have quite a lot of skill points. Spend them in craft (traps), profession (engineering), craft (alchemy), craft (weapons and armors), craft (siege weapons), knowledge (architecture), and stuff like that and be Leonardo Stark lol. Now, invent silly damage dealing stuff, and have fun!

(This kind of build assumes there is already a more traditional rogue in the party. You may have decent scouting skills, but I think you won't be able to max them)

Some examples of things I created with the help of our wizard.

- a wagon that was a freakin' tank. Mechanical weapons and traps, magic weapons and abjurations.

- antitheft system. All my bags were tied to my clothes. Take away? Poisoned darts come from my armor. Try to cut the strings? Nice try. Gas trap from my armor.

- my armor, as you now imagine, was a silly prototype of iron man. 90% mundane stuff, just a little of magic help.

- magic wins everything? maybe. That's why I had a wand-slot in every forearm of the armor.

- two blowgun-like weapons in the shoulders. Usually loaded with shrunk (as per the spell) boulders.

- enemy approaching? There's a trap for that!

- quite obviously, max UMD.

Yeah, you get the idea.
Melee ready?! Not at all.

Funny way to deal damage in creative ways? Absolutely. Though, from mid to high levels you will need the help of your wizard. From a RP point of view, the wiz should be glad to experiment innovative uses of his magic. Works even better if you're a spellthief.

Edit: even better if you're an eberron artificer. That would make you like batman. (The actual batman, not the wiz concept)

[ericp65]

My go to response is bard. Bards the best utility class. Huge amounts of buffs, can do most anything skill wise, you need to get trapfinding somewhere else unfortunately, and if you build them right are strictly better than sorcerers, you can thank heartfire fanner and sublime chord for that.

Have you seen the alternative bard class from The Complete Book of Eldritch Might? If so, how would you compare it to the core bard?

[Vaz]

Wizards get Knock, making them efficient at bypassing most traps while otherwise excelling as expected at a utility role, while Clerics can do likewise with the Kobold domain.

I keep seeing this; how do Clerics qualify for the Kobold Domain? I though you had to be a Kobold to get the benefit of the Kobold Domain, not just worship Kurtulmak?

[SciChronic]

As of posting this, this is my best non-magical, utility character who can still be highly useful in fights.

{table]ECL|CL|Feats
1|Martial Rogue 1|WF(guisarme)[Human], Dodge/Expeditious Dodge[Flaw 1], Mobility[Flaw 2], Combat Expertise[CL1], Combat Reflexes[MRogue 1]
2|Martial Rogue 2|Improved Trip[MRogue 2]
3|Martial Rogue 3|Knockdown[CL3]
4|Martial Rogue 4|Deft Opportunist[MRogue 4]
5|Martial Rogue 4, Fighter 1|Karmic Strike[Fighter 1]
6|Martial Rogue 4, Fighter 2|Short Haft[CL6], Power Attack[Fighter 2]
7|Martial Rogue 4, Fighter 2, Dervish 1|-
8|Martial Rogue 4, Fighter 2, Dervish 2|-
9|Martial Rogue 4, Fighter 2, Dervish 3| Elusive Target[CL9], Spring Attack[Dervish 3][/table]
Every time you hit and deal more than 10 damage with the guisarme, you get a free trip, and then another attack if you successfully trip, with their now -4 AC from being prone. Pair this with the fact that you have Dervish Dance and get to move around the field while you trip everyone, its really nice. Also the guisarme is a reach weapon, paired with spring attack you can play really defensively if you want and never let anyone do more than a standard attack to you, in which case you can karmic strike with short haft to reduce the reach of the guisarme and do another attack-trip-attack combo. The same tactic applies when you move out of a threatened square and abuse mobility with Elusive Target. If you feel that you have too little HP instead go 4 levels fighter 2 levels Martial Rogue at the cost of some skill points and Reflex save.

[Amphetryon]

I keep seeing this; how do Clerics qualify for the Kobold Domain? I though you had to be a Kobold to get the benefit of the Kobold Domain, not just worship Kurtulmak?

In most non-FR campaigns I see discussed, the worship of an ideal is perfectly kosher. By worshiping an ideal, you can pick any two Domains that suit you.

Also, Touchstone Feat.

[CombatOwl]

While rogues are amazing at covering most things outside of battle, i always feel that their extreme dependency on precision damage to deal any effective amount of damage at all made them become a real pain to play in campaigns that feature large amounts of enemies without discernible anatomies, or undead traits.

What solutions do you have to make a utility character that can effectively open locks, find and disable traps, as well as do scouting work (hide & move silently) yet still have some combat effectiveness without relying on precision damage at around level 9-10?

Wizard. You can open locks (knock spell), find and disable traps (one level of rogue gives trapfinding), do scouting work (invisibility, and lots of ways to boost perception and dexterity). And you can kill stuff with spells. Do yourself a favor and pick up craft wand for utility spells (or craft wondrous item and use eternal wands, if the DM allows such things)

Alternately, cleric with anyspell and the trickery domain.

[WhatBigTeeth]

Have you seen the alternative bard class from The Complete Book of Eldritch Might? If so, how would you compare it to the core bard?
That bard is vastly weaker than the standard version in nearly every way (its one advantage being low-level novas).

[Vaz]

In most non-FR campaigns I see discussed, the worship of an ideal is perfectly kosher. By worshiping an ideal, you can pick any two Domains that suit you.

Also, Touchstone Feat.

I always forget about that; I've never even really TO'd a Cleric; as I've found an Archivist to be "Cleric+", even without DMM, but for a Cleric in game, I can't really think of an reason for a Kobold/refluffing as Trapbuilding Domain as a Cleric without being a VDK.

[Azoth]

3 out the box replacements for the rogue are: Factor um, Beguiler, and Psychic Rogue. Each offers its own ups and downs. A bit more advanced option is the ever fun rogue1/wizard5/unseen seer10/full casting 5 route. all the rogue goodie and still wizard 19 casting ontop of it.

[GreenETC]

Alternatively, you can just take a Rogue and take the Penetrating Strike ACF to deal half your Sneak Attack dice to immune targets that you flank in melee, provided you have an ally. One level in Swordsage lets you get a stance that lets you flank whenever you and an ally are both adjacent to an enemy, so you basically never have to worry about not doing precision damage ever.

Other than that, Factotum is the best skillmonkey, but they get a tiny bit of magic and a lot of other stuff, although their best damage options are also precision damage in the form of Iaijutsu Focus. Personally I'd say a Factotum with a few levels of Warblade dumped on top should be good for dealing pretty decent damage while still having tons of out-of-combat tricks and skills.

[Garret Dorigan]

Warlock/Chameleon.

In this case of a 10th level character, Warlock 7/Chameleon 3.

Great damage (if Glave/Clawlock, decent as Blaster), invisibility, flight, battlefield control, UMD, Arcane Spells off of any arcane list, Divine spells off of any divine list, trapfinding, bardic music, craft shenanigans, etc. All mutable, at that.

Warlock invocations give a lot of options outright, and Chameleon is one of the most utility classes in D&D 3.5

[Talionis]

Binder, Factotum, and Incarnate all are serviceable and very well rounded.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Beguiler is exactly what you're looking for.

Illumian (Krau/anything) Beguiler 1/ Wizard 4/ Ultimate Magus 10/ [Wizard+PrCs] 5, with Able Learner, Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler, and Versatile Spellcaster. You get to apply all ten levels of Ultimate Magus to your Wizard casting, can prohibit Enchantment and Evocation and still get plenty of enchantments, and still dip Mindbender after UM. Illumians are Humanoid (Human) and can take Abler Learner, and with an Int-SAD character you can easily keep up your ranks in those Beguiler class skills. Versatile Spellcaster allows you to spend two spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher, including Wizard spells you've learned. As long as you can use your highest level Beguiler spell slots to cast a Wizard spell of one level higher you get early knowledge of that level of the Beguiler spell list as well.

[Waspinator]

Beguilers are basically magic rogues who use illusions and enchantments instead of stabbing people.

If you want to still stab people and are just having problems with monsters, consider getting the weapon crystals from MIC that let you sneak attack undead and constructs.

[NichG]

Factotum can be a good chassis if you combine with various tricks. The Factotum-Warblade suggestion is good, as both run off of Int. Factotum 8 for an extra Standard action once a fight or so combined with ToB standard action maneuvers is a nice combo.
With Inspiration to spare, add your Int to damage as well and multiply it with stuff like Ruby Nightmare blade so you aren't spending one Inspiration per (effective) attack per round.

[TuggyNE]

I keep seeing this; how do Clerics qualify for the Kobold Domain? I though you had to be a Kobold to get the benefit of the Kobold Domain, not just worship Kurtulmak?

Besides what's already been mentioned, "you have to be a kobold" isn't all that much of a drawback (although the Con penalty is unpleasant, certainly).

[SciChronic]

is it possible to be more non-magical, while still being able to be an effective utility character who can still do well in fights?

[Gildedragon]

Go factotum. They are the non plus ultra of utility.
Keep the spells in the utility category; reflux them to be clever tricks.
Get a familiar to aid you.
Bashing locks is for brutes. You can melt them with acid or a rust monster wand (use the ensuing rust to make mithril thermite)
Combat up with trip weapons, initiative, IF and int to damage.

[ericgrau]

is it possible to be more non-magical, while still being able to be an effective utility character who can still do well in fights?

Ranger then. Perhaps 1 level rogue dip for trapfinding & etc. if you want it. If the measly spells really bother you there's probably an ACF to trade them away. Depending on how many skills you really need you might blend in fighter or barbarian levels too. Plus they make a good entry into horizon walker, which is part of a popular versatile build around here.

Once played with a ranger/barbarian in a campaign full of giants, which was naturally his favored enemy. Between all the attacks, bonus damage and rage we dubbed him the Cuisinart.

[SciChronic]

If i go factotum, how deep into it should i go? The next campaign that my group will go we will start at level 9, so i've been trying to optimize as much as i can.

[NichG]

IIRC the big breakpoints for Factotum are 1,3, and 8. At 1st level you get Int mod to stuff via Inspiration (which you can boost with Font) as well as all skills as class skills. At 3rd level you automatically get Int mod for Str/Dex skills, and can boost AC with Inspiration. At 8th level you can burn Inspiration for extra standard actions.

The other Factotum stuff isn't quite as good though it has bits and pieces of usefulness. Arcane Dilletant is a good source of some utility but its a little slow to start. The emulate Sneak Attack stuff isn't really worth levels (you can get as much from stances and feats). The emulate Turn Undead could be useful to power some divine feats I guess.

Honestly though, if you can afford 8 levels, breaking action economy is very potent and the other stuff you get is nice in aggregate by then.

[SciChronic]

how does inspiration work concerning outside of battle? i.e.: wanting to use the healing function or a spell outside of battle. Do i just use leftover points from the last encounter or do i essentially have full points again?

as for the character i'm creating, it looks like i'll go 8 levels into factotum and then go into fighter maybe for the bonus feats, maybe even martial rogue for 2 levels for even more. weapon-wise though i'm still debating. maybe go spiked chain and use enlarge person on myself for large scale tripping, but i could only do that once between rests.
something like?:
{table]ECL|CL|Feats
1|Factotum 1|Combat Expertise[Human], Improved Trip[Flaw 1],EWP(spiked chain)[Flaw 2], Combat Reflexes[CL1]
2|Factotum 2|-
3|Factotum 3|Knockdown[CL3]
4|Factotum 4|-
5|Factotum 5|-
6|Factotum 6|Power Attack[CL6]
7|Factotum 7|-
8|Factotum 8|-
9|Factotum 8, Fighter 1|Dodge[CL9], Sidestep[Fighter 1][/table]
will probably pick up Deft Opportunist and then Karmic Strike. Flaws would be Shaky(-2 on ranged attacks) and Inattentive(-4 on Spot and Listen)

And since these spells function like SLAs does that mean i can't use them with things such as spell storing weapons?

[Gildedragon]

you essentially have full points out of combat the whole time; refreshing every ~30-60 seconds
This stems from the iffy nature of what constitutes an "encounter"

I am unsure of their function with spell storing weapons. But since you can craft with them...

For very high utility got chameleon 2. You get item creation feats on demand.
While equipment can make those feats superfluous it is very expensive equipment.

[kulosle]

Have you seen the alternative bard class from The Complete Book of Eldritch Might? If so, how would you compare it to the core bard?

no i haven't what is this

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Oddly enough, Warlock.

Open Locks: Wand of Knock

Disable Traps: Summon Disposable Minion (either wand of Summon Monster I or the invocation The Dead Walk. For this purpose, wand is likely better, due to not sucking up an invocation known)

Scouting: Again, Summon Disposable Minion. If you don't like that, then at-will invisibility plus flight.

Your only problem at level 9-10 will be being effective in combat. You can do some nice things (Beshadowed Blast for Save or Screwed at will is never a bad move, particularly when paired with Eldritch Chain for multi-targeting fun), but most of your highly effective combinations either come at level 11 with Greater invocations (better Save or Lose invocations like Hindering, Nauseating, or Bewildering Blast, Vitriolic Blast to ignore SR, Chilling Tentacles for decent battlefield control) or require specific builds (HFW with dip in Binder).

I will say that, while it comes online fairly late, Warlock12 + Chameleon2 = being your own magic-mart when not out in the field. Warlock 12 lets you duplicate any spell for making magic items. Chameleon2 makes sure you have the right item creation feat. It's not 100% perfect, but it's still around 90% ideal. Best of all, it's a bonus Invocation of up to one category lower than the highest you have access to. At the highest levels, this means an extra Greater invocation, which is always a logjam for me.

If you want someone who is Just that Damned Good, then Factotum is probably your best. But if you're willing to branch out, Warlock can be fun.

[tricktroller]

using a planar touchstone as far as I can tell.

aka SHENANIGANS!!!!!!