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Renen
2013-04-19, 02:46 PM
With the help of The New, Virtually No-Nonsense Guide To Psions (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10238.0)

This guide only incorporates the Psion/Wilder lists and the psion's disciplines. It does not talk bout psionic warrior powers and other similar lists.

Books Included:

Expanded Psionics Handbook (XPH)
Complete Psionic (CPsi)
Stormwrack (SW)


Ratings Key

Purple: Powers that only the rarest of psions should be without.
Blue: Close to the top. Worth serious consideration in any build.
Green: Above average. Less versatile, but still generally useful.
Black: Average. Usefulness outclassed by other options.
Orange: Sub-par. Limited uses or one trick poines.
Red: Nowhere near as good as advertised. Avoid.


Level 1

Astral Traveler (XPH)
Cant be used on it's own. Requires someone to have astral caravan. Will save prevents you from bringing an enemy along. Multiple other ways to get to astral plane. This will simply not find many uses in an average campaign.

Attraction (XPH)
Makes the target attracted to specified person or object. Will save. Mostly useless in normal game. Could be black, in a game primarily focused on political intrigue, as it does give you +4 checks on social interaction with the afflicted.

Bolt (XPH)
You create ectoplasmic arrows/bolts. The bolts dont even last very long. Could be good for bow oriented gish, or if your archer is too cheap to buy arrows. Does have the ability to give +1 arrows at level 1, and can eventually be augmented for better arrows.

Call to mind (XPH)
Grants a re-roll and a +4 bonus to a knowledge check. Re-roll is the only reason its not red. Knowledge checks can have their uses. The 1 minute cast time is a problem, but can be tolerated in some instances or quickened in others.

Catfall (XPH)
Straight from No nonsense guide: There are better ways to avoid falling damage. Exception: if you have access to Linked Power, you can link a power to this one and still manifest another power in the first round. That bumps this power up to black

Conceal thoughts (XPH)
Good for helping party face succeed in a bluff. Could have its uses in political intrigue heavy games. Can be used to help resist mind reading, but unless you are willing to have this on you the whole day, you cant manifest it fast enough to gain the effect in a pinch.
Exeption: This power is blue for Psychic Rogues, "because it works with feint checks as well (Feinting is opposed by Sense Motive too.) Combine with Hustle + Surprising Riposte for full sneak attacks on demand" (Psyren)

Control Flames (XPH)
Can extinguish, or fuel a fire. Can take an already burning fire, and have yourself a nice little flame elemental. Combine with matter agitation, to light an inn on fire, and have yourself a nice walking flame elemental of collosal size.

Control Light (XPH)
Can turn off all the light, or double amount of light in an area. Has its uses. No light would hinder anyone with even low light vision. If you can convince DM that +100% light blinds the enemy, this might become green.
Exeption: This power is Blue for anyone who has darkvision, as it can provide total concealment, if used against opponents without darkvision.

Create Sound (XPH)
Creates... sound. Could be useful for creating distractions, leaving messages, or scaring off the enemy. Plethora of possible uses.

Crystal Shard (XPH)
One of our #1 pew pew powers. Starts at 1d6. Great augmentation. Augments at rate of 1d6 per 1pp. Just aim and fire.

Daze, Psionic (XPH)
Will save allowed. Only 1 round of duration. Have to augment constantly just for it to affect anything above 4HD. And daze effect is kinda bad too.

Deceleration (XPH)
Crap. You spend an action and PP to HALF someone's speed? There are powers to completely stop the enemy in his tracks. Or hinder speed AND something else. This also doesnt stack. Complete waste of PP AND power slot.

Deflection Shield (CPsi)
Grants +4 deflection bonus to your AC for as long as you concentrate (up to 1 min per lvl) + 1 round. Similar effect to Force Screen but different type of bonus, which allows them to stack. Protects from incorporeal touch attacks, as it is a force effect. The downside is that you have to keep concentrating, and lack of augmentation. Exeption: goes up to green if used with Solicit Psycristal, to allow your Psycristal to take over concentration.

Deja Vu (XPH)
Make the enemy repeat it's action for one round. Not bad for a first level power. Enemy moved towards you, while you have your back to a bottomless pit? Sidestep him, and manifest Deja Vu to make him keep walking in that direction until... SPLAT! Will save does hurt it. If you have access to 3rd level powers, drop it for Causal Loop.

Demoralize (XPH)
AoE shaken effect. Makes all enemies in the area feel like they are nearly dead, and makes them act accordingly. Doesnt hurt allies or idiots (no INT core). Will save. Can augment to increase DC. And fear effects do stack...

Detect Psionics (XPH)
Hurray! We can detect things. Only keep it until you can get it incarnated, and then use the slot for something else. Exception: If there is no magic/psionics transparency, this is Orange. If you are literally the only Psion in the world, and here's no transparency, then its Red

Disable (XPH)
Takes care of weaker minions while you deal with the big bad. Sadly, creatures that heal, or are attacked are immediately freed from the effect. Will save will push this into black later in the game.

Distract (XPH)
-4 to some spot skills. Cant really be used for RP either. Very situational.

Ecto Protection (XPH)
Protect your astral construct from being dismissed. You waste an action and PP, on the off chance that the enemy is stupid enough to attack your minion instead of killing you. Most enemies will just focus you. Not worth wasting your time on.

Eidetic Lock (CPsi)
Allows you you put a non moving image or up to 500 words of non magical text into someone's memory. Lasts for 1 day per level or forever with 4pp augmentation. Really, will likely never be used in a game, unless its some kind of murder mystery. Would be a nice power for a quest giver, who puts answer to some impossible puzzle into your head for a short time, and you have the limited time to find the puzzle and solve it to get treasure.

Empathy (XPH)
Can give you some weak boosts to communication skills, and provide some insight into target's emotions. Poor man's Sense Motive.

Empty Mind (XPH)
+2 to your already good Will save. For only one round. Not worth it. Exception: Orange for Erudites, who dont have max powers limit, and only if in a campaign where your DM loves throwing Will save or die at you.

Endure Elements, Psionic (CPsi)
Protects you from extreme conditions in which you would have to make Fortitude saves otherwise. Very situational. Can go up all the way up to blue or purple, in a game where you are always in extreme conditions.

Energy Arc (CPsi)
Worse version of Energy ray. You have to stand closer, and it does less damage (d4). Has the same ability to choose the different energy types. Augments at + d4 per 1pp. Compared to Energy Ray it does affect everyone caught in a cone. But if you have more than 1 creature standing 15 ft or closer, you are likely doing something wrong as a psion.

Energy Ray (XPH)
Another one of your good PEW PEW powers. Needs ranged touch attack. Great augmentation of +d6 per 1 PP as well as the ability to choose the energy type. Cold and Fire types add another +1 damage per d6. Electricity has greater chance to hit people in metal armor, and has +2 bonus on manifester level checks for the purpose of overcoming power resistance. Sonic does -1 damage per d6, but bypasses hardness. Great power.

Entangling Ectoplasm (XPH)
This is one of the reasons why Deceleration is bad. This power Lasts 5 rounds, and provides entangled effect on the victim. They have the 1/2 speed in addition to reduced chance to hit, DEX penalty, and spell failure chance. Since this power affects both casters and fighters, its one of the best lvl 1 powers.

Far Hand (XPH)
Decent utility power. Like mage hand, but can be augmented. Has some uses, like retrieving an object you cant reach, but wont always be much help, as there is such a small amount of unattended objects, that are both light, and relatively close, that you would use this on. And walking Piano's are better.

Float (XPH)
Helps you swim faster in water, or gives you a swim speed if you dont already have any. But lets be honest, just how often will you be swimming? Could go up to black in swimming-heavy campaign (and thats actually swimming, not swimming in boats, as this will never help you if you fall out of a boat).

Force Screen (XPH)
For just one PP, you get a +4 AC shield bonus which stacks with your inertial armor. Doesnt take up your hands either, as it acts like an animated shield. If using psionic Abjurant Champion, this is purple.

Grease, Psionic (XPH)
Can make enemies flat footed. Can help you escape grapple and ropes. Enemies that are especially clumsy can fall if they fail a balance check. Only downside is the lack of scaling.

Hammer (XPH)
Lets you add 1d8 bludgeoning damage to your punches. You really shouldn't be punching things. Only use I can see is possibly breaking down walls, but you should really have someone else doing that. Even if your astral construct. Bump this up to orange if you yell "HULK SMASH" every time you use it. Exeption: This power is Green for psychic rouges and other melee psions, as it allows for extra 1d8 damage on every hit, for the duration.

Inertial Armor (XPH)
Mage armor on Steroids. +4 AC for only one PP. Can be augmented for +1AC to 2PP. Even protects against incorporeal attacks. Have best armor in the party, without paying for armor. Exception: Orange to adamantine body warforged, as it will not do anything for them until high levels, and then it will equate into a loss of a feat.

Know Direction and Location (XPH)
Very vaguely tells you where you are. If you are ever so lost that you dont know where you are, this is unlikely to help you. Not worth the PP or the power slot.

Matter Agitation (XPH)
Sets the target on fire. No save. Has the potential to deal good damage over time, provided you maintain your concentration. Can also be used for torturing, or setting something on fire as a distraction. You only wish it could be augmented.

Mind Thrust. (XPH)
One of the highest damaging powers. You get 1d10 damage out of 1pp. Scalable DC doubly nice when you dont have to separately pay for it.. Sadly, it is mind affecting, and a will save negates all damage. Also allows for Power resistance.

Missive (XPH)
Like message spell, but better. Allows you to send a message to someone w/o a chance to be overheard. Can be augmented to increase range. Very useful for schieming against your friends! MWA AHAHAHA!

My Light (XPH)
Makes you look like a walking street lamp. One of the worst see in the dark powers. There are others that let you see more, further and in darkness. This doesnt.

Precognition Offensive/Defensive (XPH)
Grants +1 insight bonus to attack or Defence respectively. 3pp gets you another +1 and 6pp allows to use this as swift action. This would be blue, but the low duration, means you have to cast once fight started, wasting an action, or spending 7pp to make it swift for only +1 to AC.

Prescience, Offensive (XPH)
Adds +2 to your damage. 3pp gets you another +1 and 6pp allows to use this as swift action. But really, its not significant enough to waste an action or 7pp to get the measly +2.

Primal Fear (CPsi)
Makes one opponent shaken for a round. Will save, mind affecting. Worse than Demoralize, which is also a level 1 power. As such, there is 0 reason to get this.

Sense Link (XPH)
Allows you to see/hear/taste/smell what your target feels. Only works on willing targets. Augments allow to link more senses than one (4pp) or have the target have your senses (2pp) Allows you to be the back up eyes of the party rouge. Another way to use this would be manifesting on the party negotiator, and waiting outside the room they are in. If things go south, you will see it, and know to rush in.

Skate (XPH)
Increases your or target's movement by 15 feet. Good for those moments when you absolutely must haul ass. Even better if you must do the hauling downhill. Also, ever found yourself in a situation where you REALLY wanted to push a boulder off a cliff onto someone, but it was just too heavy? This power makes pushing or pulling anything 10 times easier. Use it to pull that big dragon hoard out o the cave with you.

Slow Breathing (CPsi)
Helps with altitude sickness. How often does altitude sickness come into play? Only in a small number of campaigns, with a DM that really likes realism. This is not worth our time.

Stone mind (CPsi)
Buffs a skill you shouldn't be using, as its not a class skill. Gives +4 to search only if you are standing on earth or stone. Also gives a measly +2 to notice unusual stonework. Way too situational. Not worth a slot.

Stygian Discernment (CPsi)
Detects Undead foras long as you concentrate. But as a Psion, you should probably leave the undead to divine casters.

Synchronicity (CPsi)
Allows you to use an action later in the round. For 2 pp, you dont have to decide the action at the time you cast synchronicity. Allows you to wait and see what is needed. With a few feats, allows you to break the action economy. Just beware of flying books.

Synesthete (XPH)
This is how you see in the dark. Allows you to feel sounds, and lights without magic mushrooms. You get a bonus for spot if you see sound and your ears are also functioning. As a nifty bonus, you are immune to gaze attacks, as long as your actual eyes are closed. Have fun by telling your DM that you will play a blind PC, make him give you pity bonuses, and then use this power to see better than normal people. If only Duration was more than 10 min per level.

Telempathic Projection (XPH)
Makes your target one step friendlier towards you. You get interaction bonuses with the target. Mind affecting and Will save make this iffy. Duration of 1 min per level is also bad, but I suppose long enough to have a conversation. Nearly useless in normal campaign. Slightly better in political intrigue campaign. But why make the target friendlier, when you can just mind control them and make them MUCH friendlier.

Urban strider (CPsi)
Allows for greater mobility, and avoiding some skill checks in the city. For 8pp more, allows you to be spiderman, and walk on any surface in the city. But how many cities are you really going to be in? And you can always use other powers instead of this. Exception: In a campaign that only takes place in the city, this is green

Vigor (XPH)
Get 5hp for the cost of 1pp, augments the same. This will save your life more than once, as most psion classes have HD d4. This makes you more than twice as durable (for every ML and therefore HD, you get extra 5pp). Gets even better with share pain power. Pity its only 1 min per level.













Disciplines

Seer

Level 1

Destiny Dissonance (XPH)
Touch attack that sickens enemy for one round per ML. No save is nice. Having to be so close isn't. Why would you be so close? :-(

Precognition (XPH)
And ok boost. To a single check. It's saving grace is that it can stack with many other boosts, as its unlikely you would have many other "precognition" ones. Another good point is it's good duration, and ability to apply it AFTER you failed a roll, allowing you to use the +2 to juuuuust reach the target.




Shaper

Level 1

Astral Construct (XPH)
Summons a construct to fight/scout/trip traps for you. Summon monster I-IX all rolled into one power. Sadly, does not have the versatility of the summoned monsters. Summoned monsters have all sorts of abilities that provide simply more utility, such as healing, wishes (god is that broken), realm hopping and much more. However the casters dont have it in a single spell, instead spreading the monsters across 9 different spell levels.
Becomes even better with Constructor PrC.

Astral Construct (CPsi)
Like the XPH Astral Construct but you cant have more than one at a time. If you are 5th level Ectopic Adept, you CAN make another one. Pretty big nerf to a power. This is why many pretend CPsi doesn't exist.

Minor Creation, Psionic (XPH)
Like minor creation... just psionic. Allows you to make a simple non magical object for the cost of sitting down and contemplating your navel for one minute. Great utility. No need to carry that heavy rope with you anymore. You can make plant based poisons with it, but they might still require poison making skill check. For mages this is a 4th level power.



Kineticist

Level 1

Control Object (XPH)
Decent power. Make a lock unlock itself, or make jailer's keys walk to you. For most fun, pull a "Beauty and the Beast" and make dancing furniture. Including furniture that can fall on others. Whats the damage for a piano falling on you? Seems the max weight is 100 lb, but atleast you can add INT to the damage.

Level 2

Control Air (XPH)
You can control te direction and strength of wind. You can fly using this and Levitate. Effective way of handling swarms. Render missile weapons unusable.

Energy Missile (XPH)
One of the best damage to PP ratios of any blast powers. 1 to 1 PP to DC ratio. And thats even without hearing the best part: You can hit up to 5 enemies with it. So for the cost of d6 per pp you can hit up to 5 enemies with that damage.

Energy Missile (CPsi)
Nerfed version of the above. The hit was to the DC, making it a 2pp for 1 DC.

Level 3

Energy Cone (XPH)
Another generic energy damage power. Damage enemies in a 60ft cone. You get to choose between four different energies for slightly different results. Augments at a rate of d6 per 1pp.

Telekinetic Boomerang (CPsi)
Good for a throwing gish-type build. Not good for anything other than that. Unless you are planning to make full attacks using thrown weapons, you dont need this.

Level 4

???

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Level 5

???

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Level 6

???

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Level 7

???

Level 8

???

Level 9

???



Egoist

Level 1

Thicken Skin (XPH)
Like Precognition Defensive, with different bonus type, so it would stack. But really, has the same problems of those powers. Waste an action and 1pp or no action but 7pp to get +1 to AC. Not really worth it.

Level 2

Animal Affinity (XPH)
Grants +4 to any given ability score. Wont give you bonus PP, but will boost DC's by 2 if you choose to select your casting score. All for the low low cost of 3pp. Sadly, becomes redundant as you gain more WBL, as for 16k you can buy a similar item that has permanent duration.

Chameleon (XPH)
Grants +10 to hide. Dont try being stealthy as a psion, because if you get caught, you will likely die very fast. Exception: Green stealthy psions, like psionic rouges.

Empathic Transfer (XPH)
One of the only healing powers you get. Heals for alot, but makes you take 1/2 of the damage you healed. With the Psicrystal + Share Pain + Vigor combo, you can effectively nullify the downside.

Level 3

Ectoplasmic Form (XPH)
Transforms you into flying goop. You lose armor bonuses, but retain any other bonuses to AC. Makes you immune to poison, crits, and gives you DR/10 psionics. You can also fit through small holes. However, to manifest, you need a DC 20+power lvl Concentration check. Cant physically manipulate things either. This would be a good power in a dungeon with traps, as being flying goop, most wont hurt you. You can also slither into most cracks, to spy or get away through metal (like jail) bars.

Hustle (XPH)
Great for running away. Allows you to move and regain focus in one round. Even better for gish psions, who need to move around the battlefield alot more than normal psions.

Water Born (SW)
One of the better powers if you wanna go swimming. Gives you aquatic subtype, swim speed equal to move speed, and water breathing. Granted, you will only use this if your campaign involves swimming.

Level 4

Metamorphosis (XPH)
Transforms you into a creature with HD equal or less than your ML (max 15). You get new form's physical scores and any extraordinary special attacks, but not templates or other SLA's. You keep you mental scores and all your powers. Upon transforming, you are healed as if you rested for a night (but only HP is healed, not ability damage). This power can transform you into pretty much anything. One of the best utility powers in the game. Best used with Metamorphic transfer feat.

Psychic Vampire (XPH)
Either drains target's PP. Or does 2 damage to a mental stat. Not worth spending a standard action to ready this.

Level 5

Psionic Revivify (XPH)
Revives a target with no level lost. Your only Revival power. Aside from the time restriction, one of the best revival abilities, as it carries no negative level penalties. Just be sure not to wait too long, as every round you wait, will cost 100 more xp to revive someone.

Psychofeedback (XPH)
Reduce other ability scores to boost one physical score by same amount. Sadly, the boost goes away quickly, but the damage stays longer. Not worth it.

Restore Extremity (XPH)
Restores a lost limb. Unlikely to see much use, unless you have an evil DM. Even then, will he really de-limb you so much, that its worth having this power, instead of a dorje of this power? If anything, settle for a dorje.

Level 6

Restoration, Psionic (XPH)
Restores lost ability damage, and drained levels. Also removes fatigue and exhaustion. Very handy tool to have. Green only because you dont encounter ability drain all THAT often. In a game where DM focuses on such things, this would go blue

Level 7

Fission (XPH)
Creates another you, but with two negative levels. Now you and your clone can do twice as many things in the same amount of time. Make your DM cry for example, as you break the action economy.

Level 8

Fusion (XPH)
Combine yourself with someone else. You are now effective a gestalt character, in a non gestalt game (or possibly even better than a gestalt character). Can be made permanent with some cheese and Astral Seed.

Level 9

Metamorphosis, Greater (XPH)
Remember how metamorphosis was purple? Well, this is even better. You can become anything, with HD up to 2x your ML level. You can be nearly any size. You gain your new form's EX and SU abilities. And you can share this with your psicrystal. All for the low low price of 200xp.



Nomad

Level 1

Burst (XPH)
+10 ft movement for one round. Can be used as a swift action, but you only have a limit of one per round. There are other things to spend it on.

Detect Teleportation [Nomad] (XPH)
How often are you going to use this? Un-scalable duration, and doesnt tell you much, except for where teleport occurred.



Telepath

Level 1

Mind Link (XPH)
Creates a telepathic link with a target for 10 minutes per level. Can be augmented to include multiple participants. Great for using on scouts or if your group needs coordination breaking into some place. Can argue with DM that if one of you spots an enemy, you all know about the enemy fast enough not to be surprised. Good utility. If you dont mind will saves, you can also manifest this on an enemy. "Hello I'm in your head"

Charm, Psionic (XPH)
Better than Magic version. Can be augmented to affect non humanoids and extend duration to day/lvl rather than hour. One of the only powers, where Regardless of there you spent your PP, you get +1 DC per 2 pp spent. Have a personal minion follow you around.

Renen
2013-04-19, 02:47 PM
Reserved.
I have just started. Much more to come. I would greatly welcome feedback from anyone, in particular Psyren and Rubik. Any feedback welcome, including what books contain psionic powers. Mostly looking for feedback on coloring of the powers. Im not the best ad judging power levels.
This is also my 1st handbook. I probably suck. Let me down easy, ok?

Renen
2013-04-19, 02:49 PM
One more reserved just in case of... I dont know >_<

tyckspoon
2013-04-19, 03:38 PM
One of my pet favorites:
Primal Fear, Races of Eberron.
Level 1
Telepathy, Mind Affecting, Medium Range

Why it's good: Causes one or more intelligent living creatures to be shaken. No Save. No SR. Just spend X power points, inflict Shaken on X susceptible targets with Medium range. As a natural Swift action.

Why it's not so good: It only lasts one round, it has the usual issue with Fear/Mind-Affecting immunities, and more importantly, it explicitly does not fear stack. Which is a shame, because this would have been an excellent setup for a Demoralize (still pretty good if you have other feats/class features/items that trigger off inflicting a fear effect.)

Still, it's a cheap, reliable, and ranged debuff. Native Swift manifest time and low cost makes it a good candidate for Linked Power use, and it helps set up other powers that allow saves. I'd rank it Green, primarily on the back of No Save/No Spell Resistance, but that might be my personal fondness for it speaking.

Renen
2013-04-19, 03:40 PM
Will include eventually. Now, I am just going through XPH still >_<

tyckspoon
2013-04-19, 03:42 PM
Oh, you already know that one? Nice, it's kind of obscure :smallsmile:

WhatBigTeeth
2013-04-19, 04:00 PM
Wasn't that one of CPsi's errataed powers?

@OP, I know this guide has hardly been started, but I'm not clear what the draw of this index is going to be instead of the No-Nonsense guide. I see you're shifting a couple ratings by +/- 1, but any chance you could exaggerate the major differences between your approach and Saeomon's?

Rejusu
2013-04-19, 04:17 PM
To echo WhatBigTeeth, so far I'm not really seeing anything that'd cause me to look at this guide instead or even in addition to the Psion guide. Since all you're doing is replicating a portion of what that guide does you need to look at offering something that the other guide doesn't. For example going into more detail on powers, and how they might be used. Adding powers that were missed off the other list or reassessing powers ratings. Or looking at all Psychic powers from all lists rather than just the Psion/Wilder list.

I realise you've just started but so far you go into less detail, discipline powers like Astral Construct are just lumped in with the rest of the powers. I see you've marked them, but it'd probably be clearer to simply segregate them from the other powers in the list. Secondly you haven't yet made notes on the changes Complete Psionic made to certain powers.

Finally there's not really much justification for your ratings. Why is it exactly that Astral Construct lacks the versatility of Summon Monster? Given that Astral Constructs can be configured to your liking when they're summoned they're pretty versatile.

At any rate if you're going to do something that's already been largely covered in another guide then the first thing you need to ask yourself is what does your guide offer that the first guide doesn't. Hope that helps.

tyckspoon
2013-04-19, 04:37 PM
Wasn't that one of CPsi's errataed powers?


... *checks* :smallsigh: effing Comp Psi. Straight from 'hey, that's pretty neat, I can use that' to 'why the heck would I bother with this?'

Complete Psionics: Ruining nice things for Psions since 2006.

Renen
2013-04-19, 05:04 PM
To echo WhatBigTeeth, so far I'm not really seeing anything that'd cause me to look at this guide instead or even in addition to the Psion guide. Since all you're doing is replicating a portion of what that guide does you need to look at offering something that the other guide doesn't. For example going into more detail on powers, and how they might be used. Adding powers that were missed off the other list or reassessing powers ratings. Or looking at all Psychic powers from all lists rather than just the Psion/Wilder list.

I realise you've just started but so far you go into less detail, discipline powers like Astral Construct are just lumped in with the rest of the powers. I see you've marked them, but it'd probably be clearer to simply segregate them from the other powers in the list. Secondly you haven't yet made notes on the changes Complete Psionic made to certain powers.

Finally there's not really much justification for your ratings. Why is it exactly that Astral Construct lacks the versatility of Summon Monster? Given that Astral Constructs can be configured to your liking when they're summoned they're pretty versatile.

At any rate if you're going to do something that's already been largely covered in another guide then the first thing you need to ask yourself is what does your guide offer that the first guide doesn't. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the feedback. Ill try providing more info on the powers. One of the differences, is that already I have a few powers that arent shown in the previous guide.

Do you think it would be better putting discipline powers separately?

As for astral construct, its less versatile than all the monsters you can summon. Many of those monsters has abilities that far surpass anything the construct can get.

Edit: Sorted for disciplines

Renen
2013-04-19, 06:50 PM
Still updating. Come on, more feedback guys.

WhatBigTeeth
2013-04-19, 07:18 PM
Did you notice that the discipline powers on the No Nonsense list are in the post after the standard psion list? I ask because you mentioned having entries here that aren't on the other list, which doesn't appear to be the case.

I don't mean to be discouraging, but so far, it's really looking like this is just going to be a paraphrased version of a post that already exists.

classy one
2013-04-19, 07:57 PM
If you are going to say astral construct isn't as versatile as regular Simmons then you need to justify it with specific examples. Did you mean something like summoning a creature with wish SLA?

I have to agree with what Big said, why would we need this if another handbook already exists? You would be better served doing something like PF or Dreamscarred press srd instead. Something no one else has done.

Renen
2013-04-19, 08:37 PM
Did you notice that the discipline powers on the No Nonsense list are in the post after the standard psion list? I ask because you mentioned having entries here that aren't on the other list, which doesn't appear to be the case.

I don't mean to be discouraging, but so far, it's really looking like this is just going to be a paraphrased version of a post that already exists.

Just looking at the very beginning of my list, and then at his, I already cant find attraction power. Thats already one thing that I have he doesnt. (Making this a more complete version, as he simply did not put some powers for one reason or the other.)

And in my list, I will have a section for 3rd party powers, like Dreamscarred Press (god bless their souls), as well as books he doesnt mention (Dark Sun, Hyperconcious)

Classy one, I love your Hyperconcious review. I would greatly appreciate if you would help me color code the powers from that book. I would also love it if you would allow me to reference your review, as I might look at your opinion of a power.

classy one
2013-04-19, 08:55 PM
Thanks for the compliment! You are free to reference my review but I did already list my opinions on all the powers there. I'd be glad to where we differed. One project I always wanted to do was the DSP SRD which includes hyperconsciousness. Mainly hampered by all the new base classes as well like society mind and halo knight.
I don't know how comprehensive you are aiming for though.

Renen
2013-04-19, 09:02 PM
So far I am simply looking to color code and briefly explain the powers. After that... maybe make a similar list for all the feats, not forgetting Dark Sun and Hyperconscious.

classy one
2013-04-19, 09:38 PM
Ah I totally didn't color code my rankings. Sorry about that. I'll let you come up with a color and I'll chime in with my opinions like any thread.

Renen
2013-04-19, 09:55 PM
Will do. I am done level 1 XPH, and soon will be moving to level 1 Dark sun, CPsi and Hyperconcious.

classy one
2013-04-19, 11:05 PM
Well there are some colors I disagree with.

Attraction is rather versatile but has little in the way of Combat. I love using this for misdirection on sentries. Of course for diplomatic situations charm is better but lacks the in key areas like you can only make yourself attractive while attraction you can make your teammates better. Giving it the worst rating is really harsh. It is about middle of the road or better.

Bolt has enchantment bonuses that make it viable for all levels.

Control light is just so useful. You can creat huge blind spots for your party while not being blinded yourself.

Detect psionics is great until you can get it incarnated. After that you should get rid of it.

Minor creation is also great for making plant based poisons!

Charm is a telepath power... Another reason people take attraction rather than waste an EK for charm.


As a side note, you should talk about other power lists because psions do get bonus feats that can used to get powers from any list.

Psyren
2013-04-20, 01:45 AM
I would hold off on the houserule/questionable stuff, like using Force Screen to carry things.

Empty Mind is useful for Psywars and Psyrogues because you can use it in response to being targeted by something nasty, like an Illithid's blast or an enemy manifester's Time Hop.

Bolt is useful not just for the enhancement bonus, but the magic arrows can be passed around to the party. It also gives your archers 2-8 +1 attacks at 1st-level that last all combat long. At low levels, getting the most mileage out of your PP is key.

Hammer is a lot more powerful than it looks; it doesn't discharge upon landing, so you can hit with it, then full-attack with your finger poke of doom to land even more damaging blows. With a psychic rogue, you can actually gain sneak attack damage on every hit, including the intial one, all for a mere 1 PP. Arguably, you can even TWF them if both hands are free.

Control Light can get to total darkness (100%) which means total concealment against anyone without darkvision.

Conceal Thoughts is another good one for Psychic Rogues, because it works with feint checks as well (Feinting is opposed by Sense Motive too.) Combine with Hustle + Surprising Riposte for full sneak attacks on demand.

It might be worthwhile to have separate ratings by class - stuff like Control Light and Conceal Thoughts aren't great choices for Wilders, but Psychic Rogues value them much more highly.

Rejusu
2013-04-20, 05:49 AM
Thanks for the feedback. Ill try providing more info on the powers. One of the differences, is that already I have a few powers that arent shown in the previous guide.

Do you think it would be better putting discipline powers separately?

As for astral construct, its less versatile than all the monsters you can summon. Many of those monsters has abilities that far surpass anything the construct can get.

Edit: Sorted for disciplines

Worth pointing out that Summon Monster does place limitations on the use of summons SLAs (no planar travel, teleportation, or summoning), and there's also alignment restrictions on what you can summon. Also while a lot of them have good abilities, the construct tends to make for a beefier combat chassis.

Renen
2013-04-20, 11:26 AM
Edited to put in most of the suggested changes.

@Rejusu Summon monster is more versatile. It is. It's weakness is the fact that its 9 different spells.

Kuulvheysoon
2013-04-20, 11:50 AM
Will do. I am done level 1 XPH, and soon will be moving to level 1 Dark sun, CPsi and Hyperconcious.

I'd hold off on Hyperconscious - being as it's a 3rd party book, there's a good chance that it won't see play at a lot of tables.

Renen
2013-04-20, 12:32 PM
Then I will simply include it in a separate section, and not mash it in with the other books. :-)

Rubik
2013-04-20, 12:38 PM
You may want to look at Control Object again. It's Concentration only (up to 1 round per level), and only up to 100 lbs. The only real saving grace here is that it allows you to add your Int mod to damage, which can be...okay. I guess.

Renen
2013-04-20, 12:55 PM
I guess Ill bump it down to black then.

Rubik
2013-04-20, 01:34 PM
I guess Ill bump it down to black then.Its primary saving grace is the fact that you can use it in lieu of a crossbow if you're low on power points. 1d6 + Int is a lot better than 1d8.

Renen
2013-04-20, 01:44 PM
But costs pp every shot... What color do you think it should be?

alanek2002
2013-04-20, 05:45 PM
Found a complete list, once upon a time. http://www.devinlc.com/psionics.htm
not rated in any way, and only short descriptions, but has everything, I think. And none of the sources are third party, as far as I can tell.

Renen
2013-04-20, 06:04 PM
Found a complete list, once upon a time. http://www.devinlc.com/psionics.htm
not rated in any way, and only short descriptions, but has everything, I think. And none of the sources are third party, as far as I can tell.

OHHH! Hello Sexy!
http://amysnotdeadyet.com/stuff/doctor11-valentine12-c.jpg

Rubik
2013-04-20, 10:43 PM
But costs pp every shot... What color do you think it should be?It costs 1 pp for 1 shot per level (or 2 shots per level, if extended). It's really not anything I'd ever take, and it's definitely not worth having as a discipline power.

On a scale of 1-10, I'd say it rates about a 3, primarily for the fact that it's not as bad as Burst (mostly for the 1 round/lvl bit), but it doesn't scale, requires a regular attack roll, and is generally just not very good.