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Meeky
2013-04-20, 06:14 PM
Alright. This is very much a work in progress, but a friend and I have been doing some serious thinking on how to capture the Elder Scrolls "Be whatever class you want" feel, how to institute a decent Magicka system, and how to make D&D based around that.

Right now, this is what we have: A single Google Documents page and some Magicka-related tables that we haven't posted online yet.

What I'm looking for is some input on how solid this system sounds (being based off of D&D 3.5 / Pathfinder) for a group of 3-5 players, suggestions on how to balance it, and whether there is an alternative to making it a gestalt game.

So, without further ado, here is the link to the document:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14cAI2uH2uGCI_Lzo0-13g_P3ZER4NLIXEBZY6rK2x_o/

Meeky
2013-04-20, 08:57 PM
A few notes to be made, since my friend and I just sat down and discussed it more:

Every character uses that exact same formula for Magicka. Not every character uses it, but a lot will. Some classes that formerly had "<X> per day" abilities will now simply pay Magicka to use the ability and can otherwise use it as many times per day as they like. Consequently, as that ability gets more powerful, it will cost more, and it drains their Magicka from the same pool they cast spells from.

Also, Charisma has been updated just recently to also reduce the Magicka Penalty armor incurs.

We will be working on races next and posting statistics for them (or, rather, linking another Google document). Stuff will be better organized eventually.

Silvernale
2013-04-20, 10:09 PM
I started a Pathfinder/TES thing but after like 200 pages I gave up

Meeky
2013-04-21, 01:01 AM
I started a Pathfinder/TES thing but after like 200 pages I gave up

We're hoping to avoid that. Namely, when it comes to monsters, we'll use things out of the monster manual and adjust their stats to fit the new rules (gaining ability scores based on their Hit Die). When it comes to spells, we really don't have to change much except maybe ignore alignment-related things. Really, once the ground rules are out of the way (most special abilities costing magicka instead of being "<X> per day," sticking to the core rulebook and just adding things as players ask), updates should only be necessary when the situation comes up in a game.

Organizing this all may be the very hardest part, as will random, minute details. They take a lot of thought. For instance, we decided to go ahead and work on the Paladin and try to give it a bit of love, and we wanted to make sure the paladin could use Smite Evil at an enjoyable rate; we also decided that since Magicka Regeneration pretty much eliminates the 10 minute workday, we can assume that each fight is equal to a "day" in normal D&D in terms of resources.

Let's assume our Paladin has 8 Wisdom (perfectly viable here). Smite Evil costs Magicka equal to 5+((Lvl-1)*2). Put into chart form, it looks like:

1 - 5
2 - 7
3 - 9
4 - 11
5 - 13

Since our paladin has 8 wisdom, he gains 9 Maximum Magicka per level. Let's assume he's level 3 and thus has a maximum of 27 Magicka. He can smite three times in one battle before running out of Magicka (assuming he's not currently being affected by Magicka Penalty from armor), but come the next fight he should have enough Magicka to at least Smite at least one more time. This gives the paladin a little more oomph, but we don't feel it's too much oomph, though with more wisdom he can obviously use more Smites per battle...

...This one topic took some discussion and number comparisons, and it's just one class ability. The fact that we're going to have to do this for many other abilities, and also for a few Birthsigns and racial abilities (such as Berserker Rage, Adrenaline Rush, Lover's Kiss, and more). Some of them are easier to make than others, since there are spells that are functionally the same or similar enough to qualify (such as Adrenaline Rush function as an At Will Swift Haste - http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-adventurer--54/haste-swift--424/ ).

It shouldn't end up being terribly long, and it's not going to be written up as a huge document, necessarily (though I won't rule that possibility out). I remain optimistic.

Grinner
2013-04-21, 02:49 AM
It looks like you're trying to emulate Elder Scrolls' mechanics through D&D, but the fact that the Elder Scrolls uses a computerized skill-based system (rather than a pen-and-paper class-based system) makes that a very awkward proposition. The two are just so different.

I think you could do better if you chose a more suitable system. How deadset are you on playing a d20 game?

Meeky
2013-04-21, 10:13 AM
It looks like you're trying to emulate Elder Scrolls' mechanics through D&D, but the fact that the Elder Scrolls uses a computerized skill-based system (rather than a pen-and-paper class-based system) makes that a very awkward proposition. The two are just so different.

Sort of, but not entirely. We're trying to emulate Magicka simply because a Mana/Magicka system fits the theme better. All necessary changes to the primary stats have been made, and those were easy to make. Now, we just have to worry about things that aren't spells costing Magicka and that's about it.

Though you are right. We wanted to draw some pieces of Elder Scrolls into the d20 game, easily evidenced by more frequent, more powerful level-ups (which will have to impact the enemy NPCs as well)...

One thing we DON'T want to do is actually use that computerized skill system you mentioned. You're not going to level up One-Handed Blades, Two-Handed Blades, Alchemy, Destruction, Illusion and so forth. No. You just gain XP for completing a "quest" in whatever way you complete it, or for good roleplaying, just like in any D&D game. To improve your abilities in those things, you progress in your class and get appropriate feats. No skill-ups.


I think you could do better if you chose a more suitable system. How deadset are you on playing a d20 game?

Personally, I'm not entirely set on d20. The other person working on this, however, IS fairly deadset on a D&D game, but also not entirely. If we could find a system that would work better as a conversion, we may hop at it.

One system that I'm hoping to get a good look at tomorrow (and possibly adapting) is the Dragon Age RPG. The biggest problem I foresee in trying to use that system is trying to make the players feel like they could play at least as diverse a class cast as available to them in, say, Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall or Elder Scrolls: Morrowind. Otherwise, it has a mana-based system, interesting enough combat, and all that jazz.

We still feel that d20 should work out just fine, since we aren't trying to turn the game upside down on itself. We're just setting some baseline differences, after all: Magicka and not Vancian, remove the ten minute workday, make ability scores interdependent, and get more stat points as you level up. It's mostly a question of making sure that's "balanced" now.

Grinner
2013-04-21, 02:21 PM
The Magicka mechanic sounds fine. After all, it's really just a spell-point magic system.

What worries me is how you're trying to accomplish character freedom through gestalt characters. Gestalt characters could work, but they're certainly not the best tool for the job. If you really want to capture the Elder Scrolls' sense of freedom, I think you need to work with a true skill-based system