Illusionists VS non humanoids

[Ubercaledor]

How to stay relevant?

I had my first hit out as a lvl 4 Illusionist, and we came up against a bunch of elementals. I quickly found my character to be a glorified archer, with most of my spells being useless (only target humanoids, immunity to various status effects, etc...)

Party is Dread Necro, Cleric of Chaos, Wizard, Fighter and me.

I've made up to lvl 5 now, so have some room for tweaking. Any advice for an Illusionist in staying relevant? Or maybe a prestige to try?

[Jeff the Green]

Illusionists do fine against non-humanoids; in fact, they really shine when up against unintelligent foes. What spells were you having trouble with?

[Ubercaledor]

It was probably just my spell list.

I couldn't get off Hideous Laughter, Hypnotic Pattern, Charm person or Hypnotism.

Colour spray was useless (immune to stun)
Sleep as well (immune to sleep)
Glitterdust did very little...

Otherwise I seemed to have a list full of useless spells prepared.

[Squirrel_Dude]

That spell list... are you an illusionist or an enchanter?

[TuggyNE]

Use free-form illusions cleverly, assuming your DM doesn't have weird ideas about them being mind-affecting or something.

[Ravens_cry]

Yeah, most of those aren't illusion spells.
Now, a good illusionist needs to be creative, devious in fact.
If you are facing foes with good will saves, the true bane of illusionists, create situations where passing a save hurts them more than failing. This is easier to do as a DM than a player, the classic example being the tangible to those who fail their save illusion covering a pit, but I am sure a truly inquisitive mind can find ways to exploit this as a player.

[Gavinfoxx]

Which are you?

Enchanter?

Illusionist?

Beguiler?

[Ubercaledor]

Yes, I realise that these spells are not all Illusion spells. Mirror Image and Ventriloquism were also not useful, but I mentioned the enchantment spells as I could see that if I had, they would have perhaps mitigated my performance a little.

So what spells should I be taking? I might be able to drop a few spells known for others, especially to focus more on illusions.

Also, should I bother to take Master Specialist with 5th level?

Should also mention I'm core only.

[Urpriest]

Yes, I realise that these spells are not all Illusion spells. Mirror Image and Ventriloquism were also not useful, but I mentioned the enchantment spells as I could see that if I had, they would have perhaps mitigated my performance a little.

So what spells should I be taking? I might be able to drop a few spells known for others, especially to focus more on illusions.

Also, should I bother to take Master Specialist with 5th level?

Should also mention I'm core only.

If you're core only you can't take Master Specialist.

A few versatile image-making illusions should help. I'd prepare at least one Silent Image every day for situations like this.

[Ubercaledor]

Sorry (can you tell I'm new to wizards) I meant core only spells. The other wizard has an OK on everything in the SpC (but for bookkeeping sake I'm sticking with core).

Considering I'm playing alongside a Tomb-Tainted Soul Necropolitan Dread Necromancer, I think I should be able to argue a non-core PrC (as long as it isn't too broken)

[icefractal]

If you're a Beguiler, then you're stuck with an Illusion/Enchantment mix. If not, then get some stuff that's as far from illusory as possible for your non-illusion spells. For example, in a recent PF game I'm playing an Illusionist in, a typical load-out might look like this:

1st: Silent Image x2 (works on everything), Color Spray, Enlarge Person, Obscuring Mist, Unseen Servant (works well with alchemical stuff)

2nd: Minor Image, Glitterdust (we've been fighting a fair number of invisible/stealthy things), Invisibility (no save on that), Summon Monster II (mix actual summons with illusory ones FTW), Web (ditto)

Against a status-immune foe, the majority of stuff still works. Against illusion vulnerable foes, I've still got a fair amount (and can use the bonded item spell for another one). The worse case scenario is someone with Blindsight, and I can still use the non-illusion stuff in that event.


I find that Conjuration mixes well with illusion in general. It provides plenty of spells with no save or a non-Will save, and being able to toss out actual hazards makes your illusions more effective. Foes decide to call your bluff and walk past your illusory creatures? Toss an actual Summon out and they'll take AoOs for that, or an actual Web and they get stuck in it. And once they've been stuck in one, they're a lot less likely to risk checking if a second one is real or not (remember, looking at an illusion from a distance doesn't give you a save - it has to be interacted with).