Can i apply same metamagic twice or more?

[isildur]

like empowered empowered fireball(7th level slot)

yes, it's not so effective, but i'm curious

[Umbranar]

As discribed in the phb and srd online:


A spellcaster can apply multiple metamagic feats to a single spell. Changes to its level are cumulative. You can’t apply the same metamagic feat more than once to a single spell.

[LordHenry]

somewhat on topic: In what order are the metamagics applied? Do they affect each other?

[Namfuak]

somewhat on topic: In what order are the metamagics applied? Do they affect each other?

They are applied in the most beneficial order, which is actually a general rule for interactive positive effects. For example, you would prefer to maximize a spell and then empower it, rather than the other way around (although to be fair, with that example it wouldn't make sense to do it the other way).

[Nettlekid]

They are applied in the most beneficial order, which is actually a general rule for interactive positive effects. For example, you would prefer to maximize a spell and then empower it, rather than the other way around (although to be fair, with that example it wouldn't make sense to do it the other way).

Er, that's slightly confusing, mainly because strictly speaking you can't Empower a Maximized spell due to the fact that there are no variable numeric components to Empower. A Maximized Fireball does 60 damage, not 10d6, so Empower doesn't turn that to 60*1.5=90, while it does turn 10d6*1.5=15d6. You also can't Maximize an Empowered spell, so you can't make it do 10d6*1.5=15d6=>90 damage. What a Maximized Empowered Fireball actually does is 60+5d6. The 10d6 is Maximized, and then it's Empowered as though it wasn't Maximized.

However, it's true that you can apply Metamagic feats in whatever order you want. It's sometimes contested, but most people are of the opinion that if you Extend a Persisted spell, it lasts for 48 hours. Not everyone agrees with this, though. One example of Metamagic feats clearly being applied in order is the Locate City Bomb. It works by applying feats that can be applies only to specific sorts of spells, so it has to go in order. It works by taking the spell Locate City, with its large area of effect. Use Snowcasting (not a Metamagic feat) to make it a Cold spell. Next use the Metamagic feat Flash Frost Spell to make it deal 2 cold damage per level (only applicable to a Cold spell). Then use Energy Substitution (or Energy Admixture) to make it an Electricity spell (usable only on an energy spell). Then use Born of the Three Thunders to make it offer a Reflex save or be prone (usable only on an Electricity or Sonic spell that does damage). Then use Explosive Spell to hurl everyone back (only usable on an AoE spell that offers a Reflex save). So you see, you have to apply the Metamagic feats in that order. You couldn't apply Born of the Three Thunders before Flash Frost Spell no matter what. So order does matter.

[Namfuak]

Er, that's slightly confusing, mainly because strictly speaking you can't Empower a Maximized spell due to the fact that there are no variable numeric components to Empower. A Maximized Fireball does 60 damage, not 10d6, so Empower doesn't turn that to 60*1.5=90, while it does turn 10d6*1.5=15d6. You also can't Maximize an Empowered spell, so you can't make it do 10d6*1.5=15d6=>90 damage. What a Maximized Empowered Fireball actually does is 60+5d6. The 10d6 is Maximized, and then it's Empowered as though it wasn't Maximized.

I have always applied empowered after rolling the dice, so if I were to roll 30 I would add 15, not add another 5d6. Thus, the damage itself, not the way you calculate it, is the variable numeric effect, and they (maximize and empower) can be applied together.

[kulosle]

Empower says how it interacts with maximize. Empower works by increasing the damage that you role by 50%. it does not give you more dice to role. When you put maximize into the mix the empower spells feats says you still role the damage dice and add 50% of that damage plus max damage of the original spell. so in a 10d6 example you would role them say you got 30 then add half of that to the max which would be a total of 75 damage.

[Menzath]

I always thought of maximize working as, you roll, but despite what you actually roll everything counts as being a max die roll.

Does this mean at low levels we can have an extended extended extended creeping cold, and unless they have a dispel or REALLY high cold resist/immunity, I sit back and just win?:smallamused:

Although the Extended extended fell drain thunderhead is also funny.

EDIT:
You can’t apply the same metamagic feat more than once to a single spell.
Did not see that, doesn't make metamagic any less useful, just not uber broken at low/mid level.:smallfrown:

[Khedrac]

The stacking of Empower and Maximise has a specific rules clarification somewhere (though i cannot remember where and am away from books right now).

The empower adds half the spell's rolled damage to the maximised spell.

So for Empower + Maximise on 10d6 goes to 60 + (10d6)/2 which is not the same as 60 + 5d6 (it's very close, but it has a different distribution, especially with D&D's round down rule).