I am so mad

[Immabozo]

I am so mad at my group and DM. So last night we had a campaign and we fought in a tournament. No magical items in the tournament. So we were given mundane weapons and armor, no wondrous items. First fight, our 3 level 13 characters are fighting a group of 5 level 15 characters. We mopped the floor with them no problem. Second fight, our 3 level 13 characters are fighting 5 level 18 characters with not in a million years D&D legal abilities. One guy is braced against my charge (10 foot reach due to being large) and the DM argues with us for 10 minutes about why his 5 foot reach with his longsword should be able to hit me 10 feet away because he was braced. Then my knockback from hitting him came up to a 57 opposed str check to throw him back. he gets a 20 and rules he only moves back 5 feet because the DM says so, he was braced (I'm able to bull rush and throwing around Ancient gold dragons at this point, a medium human is not going to brace against that).

The next one was funny. This character was modeled after a Final Fantasy 2 character and jumps impossibly high in the air (to then fall on us with his spear for massive damage) but I got an attack of opportunity and with knockback, bullrushed him with a 52 and he instead went arching out of the arena, never to be seen again. I was laughing pretty hard.

Next round we are fighting a level 25 dark elf. Not just any dark elf, Drizzit. He is also armored in mundane, so that supposedly leveled the playing field, but so were we, sooooooo.... basically every hit of his still landed and, partially due to bad rolling, were barly hitting him. I finally destroyed him because of good tactics round one and good rolling round two and then round three he surrendered before my turn.

So then is round four, all in one day, I am out of rages, our mage is low on spells, we are all starting every round hurt.

Now, we are facing a 40 HD demon and we only have mundane weapons. There is NO chance to win this fight, except we were given a template the week before to call a celestial paragon when the need was great. So we did and two of our party members fused into it's body for the duration of the summon, summoned a 50 HD celestial paragon. One of our party members fuzed with the demon, giving him 50 HD and the "Chosen of Cyric" template that the player had. I fled the arena, cause **** that. I found my armor and then went to complete the Geas to kill the king, using this as the massive distraction it was supposed to be. So these two are slinging massive spells at each other and out of game, arguing about ridiculous things for about 30 minutes. I am finally allowed to take my turn. I find the king, charge him, its an illusion. Turn around, there's another "looks like the king" (apparently this one was a random minotaur commoner who has the same armor and staff as the king AND has illusions of himself) and I charge him, 3 hits for just shy of 200 damage (I am proud of that).

So this fight of the two titans is some how over and the players are free and they go from outside initiative into the middle of initiative from a location that is impossible for them to see me, they have no idea where I am, and enter at the EXACT right moment. Round one, the one mage, casts scry, teleports to me, casts some spell to steal the staff (the prize we all want) from the (fake) king. Round two, I grapple him and AS AN IMMEDIATE ACTION, force cages me, then the goddess watching (who has the Geas on me) frees me and I grapple him again. Again, as a ****ing immediate action, uses a ring to teleport away, and the activation of this ring requires a move action.

My anger and pleading with the DM to make him follow the rules falls on deaf ears and I am brushed off.

Last week I went with them on a quest where one of the guys got an item worth roughly 95,000 gold, probably more (+4 adamantine exalted full plate intelligent item that grant +30 on spot AND listen check checks AND has 3 spells it can cast 3/day, one of which is cure serious wounds) and in this DM's x2 economy, worth at least 190,000. I cant price the other character's item, but it is an epic item that is insane, making him immune to all mundane weapons and reflex save VS any magical weapon to avoid it, on a mage with abrupt jaunt.

My reward? He gave me 10,000 gold. In his economy, 5,000. But he gave that to everyone. So I got no reward, and he let a player completely break the game to say ""*** you" to me.

[Xerxus]

Haven't you heard? Magic is good because Gary Gygax.




Talk to him, if you fall on deaf ears leave.

[Immabozo]

Talk to him, if you fall on deaf ears leave.

I agree. I just love my character so much, so thats what has kept me. But after now a month of "just because I said so" nerfs and "because I said so" being forced to level in different classes and horribly unfair rewards where I get bumpkiss, I am on the edge of not going back.

EDIT: and a few on-the-fly house rules against me.

[Nettlekid]

I'm going to start by saying that I kind of skimmed this, because there was a lot going on that makes not a whole lot of sense to someone who wasn't actively playing in that game (I don't know how your template 50 HD Celestial paragon thing works, for example) but clearly, this is a high level and high OP game. Everything you described as happening seems not unreasonable. Immediate action Forcecage? Maybe it was a Celerity, or maybe the King's an Anima Mage. You have a Goddess on your side? I don't think you'll be doing too poorly no matter what you're doing. After all, it's totally within the rules for a Celerity+Forcecage to activate, and then without that Goddess intervention you'd be stuck for quite a while. And when push comes to shove (literally in the case of your Knockback battler) the DM's call goes. If the DM thinks that a Nat 20 on a skill check, even if the rules say that's not an auto-win, is worth a special something, then he's allowed. If you want to play, you go along with it. As for the reward items, that's basically like a bible story or something. You aren't made worse for your teammates having good items. If you were so concerned about your standing, you'd be playing some kind of Wizard or Archivist or Artificer. What are you, like a Goliath Barbarian or something? Have fun with it. Don't get so twisted up by what other people do or get.

Also, I was really hoping you were playing a Paladin or a Monk or something. I would tell you that's why you were so MAD.

[Immabozo]

I'm going to start by saying that I kind of skimmed this, because there was a lot going on that makes not a whole lot of sense to someone who wasn't actively playing in that game (I don't know how your template 50 HD Celestial paragon thing works, for example) but clearly, this is a high level and high OP game. Everything you described as happening seems not unreasonable. Immediate action Forcecage? Maybe it was a Celerity, or maybe the King's an Anima Mage. You have a Goddess on your side? I don't think you'll be doing too poorly no matter what you're doing. After all, it's totally within the rules for a Celerity+Forcecage to activate, and then without that Goddess intervention you'd be stuck for quite a while. And when push comes to shove (literally in the case of your Knockback battler) the DM's call goes. If the DM thinks that a Nat 20 on a skill check, even if the rules say that's not an auto-win, is worth a special something, then he's allowed. If you want to play, you go along with it. As for the reward items, that's basically like a bible story or something. You aren't made worse for your teammates having good items. If you were so concerned about your standing, you'd be playing some kind of Wizard or Archivist or Artificer. What are you, like a Goliath Barbarian or something? Have fun with it. Don't get so twisted up by what other people do or get.

Also, I was really hoping you were playing a Paladin or a Monk or something. I would tell you that's why you were so MAD.

No celerity, it's a player who did all this, I've never seen him cast celerity, I doubt he knows it. And the goddess isn't on our side, I am doing her bidding for the moment because of a Geas she has on me.

The DM does do that, but he didn't roll a 20, he rolled a 16, +4 str. Unless I roll a one or he rolls a 20, I should win mush of my opposed str checks. d20 + 15 (str) + 4 (size) + 24 (power attack) + 1 (DM feat, +1 to all rolls)

hahaha, I love your pun at the end, definitely lightened my mood, thank you. I am a dwarven, half ogre, half minotaur (Dragon Mag templates) Barbarian 5/bear warror 1 (this is RAW shinanigans)/war hulk 5/dungeoncrasher fighter 2. With two flaws.

EDIT: we dont understand the celestial paragon thing either, you have as much data as we had. We were confused and lots of lound arguing for 30 minutes and lots of frustrated anger. Later the DM let it slip he was trolling us

[Jon_Dahl]

Also, I was really hoping you were playing a Paladin or a Monk or something. I would tell you that's why you were so MAD.

Glad I wasn't the only one...

[Nettlekid]

I am a dwarven, half ogre, half minotaur (Dragon Mag templates) Barbarian 5/bear warror 1 (this is RAW shinanigans)/war hulk 5/dungeoncrasher fighter 2. With two flaws.

See...here, I lose my support for you. You chose some of the least creative, cheesiest stuff out there. Disregarding whatever DM fiat going on, you're going to win most melee competitions, be it a straight-up brawl or opposed checks like bull rush. But at level what, 15? 16? Spellcasters have 8th level spells. They're throwing around Greater Planar Binding and Polymorph Any Object. If you're versed enough in the metagame to know how strong a knockback dungeoncrasher fighter barbarian with pounce and those template, then you're versed enough to know that at those levels, casters can kill you with a Metamagically boosted fart. If you pit yourself against a caster, the caster will either not take you seriously or obliterate you. If you're in a group that's playing for power, not fun (which is what you seem to be) then the caster will be better than you without the DM's interference. Now, I don't know all the builds involved. But if the DM was okay with the other player, the mage, using that Forcecage, then odds are he had a way to do it that wasn't just the DM ignoring the action economy and screwing you over. If you're so angry, ask the player "Hey, how'd you pull all that off?" or something. But don't fume because you're being outshone by a character that is basically designed to outshine you.

[Yael]

Are you a person and a half?
Half-minotaur, half-ogre. And a dwarf O.o
My DMs always rule that being a ''half-'' something restricts you to be ''half-template + ''half-race''.

[Slipperychicken]

Leave, and don't look back. You can play your beloved character in a better game.

[Immabozo]

See...here, I lose my support for you. You chose some of the least creative, cheesiest stuff out there. Disregarding whatever DM fiat going on, you're going to win most melee competitions, be it a straight-up brawl or opposed checks like bull rush. But at level what, 15? 16? Spellcasters have 8th level spells. They're throwing around Greater Planar Binding and Polymorph Any Object. If you're versed enough in the metagame to know how strong a knockback dungeoncrasher fighter barbarian with pounce and those template, then you're versed enough to know that at those levels, casters can kill you with a Metamagically boosted fart. If you pit yourself against a caster, the caster will either not take you seriously or obliterate you. If you're in a group that's playing for power, not fun (which is what you seem to be) then the caster will be better than you without the DM's interference. Now, I don't know all the builds involved. But if the DM was okay with the other player, the mage, using that Forcecage, then odds are he had a way to do it that wasn't just the DM ignoring the action economy and screwing you over. If you're so angry, ask the player "Hey, how'd you pull all that off?" or something. But don't fume because you're being outshone by a character that is basically designed to outshine you.

So casting three spells on your action that have no meta magic affecting them and then a fourth, as an immediate action, with no meta magic or any kind of spell to make it possible? I know how to play the game. I know that mages will outshine me. Thats not my problem. My upset is with the DM allowing the player to blatantly break the action economy because he wants to and no reasons to be able to do it.


Are you a person and a half?
Half-minotaur, half-ogre. And a dwarf O.o
My DMs always rule that being a ''half-'' something restricts you to be ''half-template + ''half-race''.

thats a house fule. Its RAW legal, just another silly RAW "wait, that doesn't work right"

[Nettlekid]

So casting three spells on your action that have no meta magic affecting them and then a fourth, as an immediate action, with no meta magic or any kind of spell to make it possible? I know how to play the game. I know that mages will outshine me. Thats not my problem. My upset is with the DM allowing the player to blatantly break the action economy because he wants to and no reasons to be able to do it.


See, this is what I find suspect. I strongly doubt the DM just let that happen, or that the player doesn't have reasons. If you think that's the case, ask both the player and the DM together, "How was he able to do these several things before I was able to complete the one action I started?" If they give you a reasonable answer, then suck it up. If they say "Eh, I felt like he could do it," reply by saying "That's not really fair to me as a character, if we're working with the same action economy but you get free actions." If the DM says that you don't get nice things, then stop playing. But don't pointlessly complain to us about it.

For one, you say he cast Scry. Scry has a casting time of one hour. I don't think he cast Scry. If he said he did, take THAT up with the DM, because that just can't work. If the DM's okay with it, then have the player abuse the privilege to ruin all the DM's plans until the DM admits the error of his ways. But I expect that it wasn't Scry, it was just a spell that told him where to do. After that, Arcane Spellsurge could let him cast a couple of spells in a single turn. And Celerity, which I bet he has if this is as optimized a party as you seem to suggest. Now, you said that you attempted to grapple, were Forcecaged, freed, and attempted to grapple again. Your first attempt was interrupted, but it still counts as an action, so you just got two actions where you shouldn't have. So it looks like it's not JUST the mage who's getting the special treatment here.

[Xerxus]

See, this is what I find suspect. I strongly doubt the DM just let that happen, or that the player doesn't have reasons. If you think that's the case, ask both the player and the DM together, "How was he able to do these several things before I was able to complete the one action I started?" If they give you a reasonable answer, then suck it up. If they say "Eh, I felt like he could do it," reply by saying "That's not really fair to me as a character, if we're working with the same action economy but you get free actions." If the DM says that you don't get nice things, then stop playing. But don't pointlessly complain to us about it.

For one, you say he cast Scry. Scry has a casting time of one hour. I don't think he cast Scry. If he said he did, take THAT up with the DM, because that just can't work. If the DM's okay with it, then have the player abuse the privilege to ruin all the DM's plans until the DM admits the error of his ways. But I expect that it wasn't Scry, it was just a spell that told him where to do. After that, Arcane Spellsurge could let him cast a couple of spells in a single turn. And Celerity, which I bet he has if this is as optimized a party as you seem to suggest. Now, you said that you attempted to grapple, were Forcecaged, freed, and attempted to grapple again. Your first attempt was interrupted, but it still counts as an action, so you just got two actions where you shouldn't have. So it looks like it's not JUST the mage who's getting the special treatment here.

See? I told you the magic-proponents would show up.

[Immabozo]

See, this is what I find suspect. I strongly doubt the DM just let that happen, or that the player doesn't have reasons. If you think that's the case, ask both the player and the DM together, "How was he able to do these several things before I was able to complete the one action I started?" If they give you a reasonable answer, then suck it up. If they say "Eh, I felt like he could do it," reply by saying "That's not really fair to me as a character, if we're working with the same action economy but you get free actions." If the DM says that you don't get nice things, then stop playing. But don't pointlessly complain to us about it.

For one, you say he cast Scry. Scry has a casting time of one hour. I don't think he cast Scry. If he said he did, take THAT up with the DM, because that just can't work. If the DM's okay with it, then have the player abuse the privilege to ruin all the DM's plans until the DM admits the error of his ways. But I expect that it wasn't Scry, it was just a spell that told him where to do. After that, Arcane Spellsurge could let him cast a couple of spells in a single turn. And Celerity, which I bet he has if this is as optimized a party as you seem to suggest. Now, you said that you attempted to grapple, were Forcecaged, freed, and attempted to grapple again. Your first attempt was interrupted, but it still counts as an action, so you just got two actions where you shouldn't have. So it looks like it's not JUST the mage who's getting the special treatment here.

This is where you are wrong. I pointed this out and their answers were "because I'm awesome." The player does not ever use celerity, if it was, he would have been dazed. I'll point out the 1 hour casting time, thank you.

The mage is feats to make super high DCs and beat SR and stuff like that. I know his build somewhat well. There is no reason he could do anything he did. And thats why I'm pissed. And asking about it I am told "because I'm awesome"

[Nettlekid]

If that's the case then just quit the group, because there's obviously nothing you can do besides say "I move next to you and you can't cast any spells because that my AWESOME power that I just got now and then I kill you and you can't stop me because I'm awesome." That's what you're playing with right now. So leave.

[Immabozo]

See? I told you the magic-proponents would show up.

I have no problems being out shined, I designed my character this way because I want to, but intentionally breaking action economy for no reason, for free, with no meta magic or spells allowing him to do so, because the player wants to, is breaking the game

[Immabozo]

If that's the case then just quit the group, because there's obviously nothing you can do besides say "I move next to you and you can't cast any spells because that my AWESOME power that I just got now and then I kill you and you can't stop me because I'm awesome." That's what you're playing with right now. So leave.

I think you are right. I think I will pending the next session if things get better.

[Gnome Alone]

Me Hit Stuff Real Hard

Half dwarf. Half ogre. Half minotaur. 100% bear.

Starring Immabozo as "Tiny."

Coming Summer 2013.

"A tour de force!" -Joel Siegel

[Immabozo]

Me Hit Stuff Real Hard

Half dwarf. Half ogre. Half minotaur. 100% bear.

Starring Immabozo as "Tiny."

Coming Summer 2013.

"A tour de force!" -Joel Siegel

Arnold Schwarzenegger staring as Tiny!

[Chained Birds]

Out of curiosity, what big, magical, OP item were you expecting to get out of this encounter that you feel you were cheated out on?

A +3 Greatsword that can be wielded by a Bear and grants a +20 bonus on Bullrush attempts to any Bear that wields it? And it grants you an extra Rage per day.

I really don't know what you want...

[Anium]

Contingency, spell trigger, some kind of delaying efect maybe? there are diferent ways to do it.

[Immabozo]

Out of curiosity, what big, magical, OP item were you expecting to get out of this encounter that you feel you were cheated out on?

A +3 Greatsword that can be wielded by a Bear and grants a +20 bonus on Bullrush attempts to any Bear that wields it? And it grants you an extra Rage per day.

I really don't know what you want...

As far as the bear goes, the entry in the PrC contradicts itself and I was honestly confused and thought I didn't HAVE to turn into a bear, so I am abusing the contradiction. But I decided to not abuse it any further, but the abuse that has accidentally been done, has been done.

So I never transform, but still get the bonuses in a rage.

Honestly? My dream item for this character is a special bag of holding that I ties to my waist that has a never ending supply of naked gnomes in it with a flesh to stone spell cast on them that I can throw (in place of 50 pound boulders) and when they deal damage, they then have a stone to flesh spell cast on them and are hit with a confusion spell and run around causing mayhem and chaos.

[Immabozo]

Contingency, spell trigger, some kind of delaying efect maybe? there are diferent ways to do it.

There ARE ways to do it, but NONE were used. That is my problem. The player could do it because he said so

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Why did the guy in your party try to take the staff from you? It's possible there was a better reason for DM fiat to be on his side than picking on you, even if the methods were inelegant. Besides, if you get the bonuses of being a bear with no drawbacks all the time, it doesn't seem so outrageous that the wizard can break the action economy one time, especially if it's for a purpose that seems relevant to the plot.

[eggynack]

Honestly? My dream item for this character is a special bag of holding that I ties to my waist that has a never ending supply of naked gnomes in it with a flesh to stone spell cast on them that I can throw (in place of 50 pound boulders) and when they deal damage, they then have a stone to flesh spell cast on them and are hit with a confusion spell and run around causing mayhem and chaos.
Wait a sec, now I remember you. You're the guy from a while back who had another player make his wish for him. You should just take this as another strike against the game, and run away at full speed. These folks clearly don't respect the rules, and more importantly they consistently don't respect you and your wishes. In this case, I mean wishes both figuratively and literally. Seriously, it doesn't matter that he broke the rules so much as that they just don't care about the things you say, or your opinions in general.

[Immabozo]

Why did the guy in your party try to take the staff from you? It's possible there was a better reason for DM fiat to be on his side than picking on you, even if the methods were inelegant. Besides, if you get the bonuses of being a bear with no drawbacks all the time, it doesn't seem so outrageous that the wizard can break the action economy one time, especially if it's for a purpose that seems relevant to the plot.

The plot was I was supposed to have the staff to give to the goddess who put a Geas on me. And I have those bonuses completely 100% RAW legal. Not RAI by any stretch of the imagination though.

He had it "because I said so" and that is EXTREMELY aggrevating


Wait a sec, now I remember you. You're the guy from a while back who had another player make his wish for him. You should just take this as another strike against the game, and run away at full speed. These folks clearly don't respect the rules, and more importantly they consistently don't respect you and your wishes. In this case, I mean wishes both figuratively and literally. Seriously, it doesn't matter that he broke the rules so much as that they just don't care about the things you say, or your opinions in general.

Thank you, I am glad I am not crazy. I keep hoping this group will turn around, but I think you are right.