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View Full Version : Overwhelming Hits Deal Maximum Damage (3.5/PF game mechanic)



Vadskye
2013-04-21, 09:07 PM
One of the slight oddities of D&D is that the quality of your hit never matters. You could beat a creature's AC by 1, or you could beat it by 20, and it makes not a sliver of difference - you roll the same damage die either way. Yes, there are specific options like Power Attack which can be used to translate excess accuracy into damage, but I'd really like to see it more fundamentally written into the game; it just feels so intuitive that hitting really well should mean that damage is at least somewhat affected. The closer you get to hitting a creature's weak point directly, the more it helps!

There are two main problems with implementing this in game, however. First, game balance dictates that attack bonus should not directly translate into damage. I respect that - it could have strange effects that I don't foresee. (And true strike would certainly need a rewrite if that were the case!) Second, it's really slow. If the exact difference between an attack roll and the target AC becomes a significant gameplay mechanic, the process of rolling attacks will get a lot slower. I don't want that - if anything, I want to make rolling dice in combat faster!

Thus, we come to my proposed solution. If your attack hits by 10 or more, you deal maximum damage with your weapon. Very simple and streamlined. Sneak attack dice and other extra damage dice aren't maximized in the interests of sanity and balance.

This means that, if your first attack has a nigh-deific attack bonus and always hits, you can save the trouble of actually rolling the damage and get on to the other attacks which are more variable. There is only a minor impact on game balance; at high levels, most damage doesn't come from the weapon's damage die anyway, so it just saves some time and gives a nice reward for rolling well.

The only major exception I can think of is for builds which optimize weapon size, which can yield damage dice that get startlingly high and shouldn't be maximized. My response to that is that I don't like those builds for other reasons (your six foot tall fighter should not be walking around with a 15 foot long sword) and I am going to ignore them for the purpose of deciding the balance of this change. (In my system, some mechanics changed so that maximizing weapon size is not an effective build choice).

So... what do you think?

Shyftir
2013-04-21, 11:22 PM
I think that's a really great idea. It also boosts melee a small but meaningful amount. Suddenly Fighter's (and rangers/paladins etc.) are back to being the ones who get the most out of weapons. I like it very much.

ngilop
2013-04-22, 12:25 AM
I have this built into my game already except its d4 (or d8 in teh case of fighters) when the attack is 5 over the needed number here is (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268577)some stuff for it

it does a lot to increase melee's damage as while a wizard cna unleahs 150_200 dmg with a basic spell NORMAL melee cna do maybe what.. 40-50 dmg with their attack, this way it doulbes that number.

nonsi
2013-04-22, 01:48 AM
If you go for that angle, don't stop midway (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249375).

For those that find the extra damage formula a bit complex, normal crit can be incorporated on top of the attack-roll extra damage.

Deepbluediver
2013-04-22, 11:29 AM
So... what do you think?

This isn't the first relatively simple and easily implemented idea you've come up with; keep them rolling. You just need to come up with a new name to differentiate it from being Overwhelmed (your replacement for flanking :smallsmile:).

Quick question though- how does it interact with crits? Do you maximize normal damage then roll for the crit bonus? Do you just maximize the crit? Does one cancel out the other? Something else entirely?

Vadskye
2013-04-29, 02:42 PM
If you go for that angle, don't stop midway (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249375).

For those that find the extra damage formula a bit complex, normal crit can be incorporated on top of the attack-roll extra damage.

I explicitly want to avoid making D&D combat a fully threshold-based system. That slows down the game by forcing people to fairly precise math. And it makes it harder to take into account circumstantial modifiers which players have a consistent habit of forgetting.


This isn't the first relatively simple and easily implemented idea you've come up with; keep them rolling. You just need to come up with a new name to differentiate it from being Overwhelmed (your replacement for flanking :smallsmile:).
Thanks! You're right - it is now called a "devastating blow".


Quick question though- how does it interact with crits? Do you maximize normal damage then roll for the crit bonus? Do you just maximize the crit? Does one cancel out the other? Something else entirely?

I did some thinking on this. My primary goal is to make what happens intuitive; game balance is of a secondary priority here. So when you get a crit on a devastating blow, you check if the threat is also a devastating blow. If it is not, the "normal" weapon damage is maximized, and any additional dice of damage are rolled normally. If both the initial crit and the threat are a devastating blow, all weapon damage for the crit is maximized. Is that about what you'd expect?