A Single Arcane Cleric Spell

[Ruethgar]

I am looking at a sorcerer build that would GREATLY benefit from having Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a), but I don't want to have a three level dip in a divine class to cast it. Is there any way to get the spell as arcane or otherwise cast it as a sorcerer?

[Wookie-ranger]

Not as far as I know.
But you a sorcerer and therefore probably have a descend Cha. This makes UMD an option if you can effort the skill points.
Along the same line you could dip a level in cleric and buy a wand with it. It would be an expense, but you also get the benefits of some low level cleric spells and emergency healing.

[Amphetryon]

Have you checked here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6082.0)?

[sleepyphoenixx]

2 levels in Unseen Seer let you add any Divination spell to your class list. It requires a bunch of rogue skills though.
2 levels in Wyrm Wizard let you add any spell from any list but you lose 1 CL.

[Ruethgar]

I don't like having to rely on items at all, they are too easily lost. I would rather be able to cast it as soon as possible as part of the character's whole shtick making PrCs a less desirable option, but thank you, I'll look into the Wyrm Wizard and Unseen Seer.

Upon rereading Precocious Apprentice, however I noticed that it does not require the spell be normally available to your class, just a school you have access to (divination). However it also doesn't say that I actually learn the spell, so it would be lost as a sorcerer once I'm able to cast 2nd level spells.

Extra Spell doesn't specify that it must be from the same class, but waiting until I can cast 3rd level spells as a sorcerer is a long wait. I suppose I could Earth, Sanctum a spell up to 3rd and take extra spell at level one with loredrake, but that is a pretty high feat investment and opening a door to cheese I'ld like to skirt away from.

[Krobar]

Have you checked out Arcane Disciple?


Choose a deity, and then select a domain available to clerics of that deity. You can learn to cast the spells associated with that domain as arcane spells.

Prerequisite
Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks, able to cast arcane spells, alignment matches your deity's alignment.

Benefit
Add the chosen domain's spells to your class list of arcane spells. If you have arcane spellcasting ability from more than one class, you must pick which arcane spellcasting ability this feat applies to. Once chosen, this decision cannot be changed for that feat. You may learn these spells as normal for your class; however, you use Wisdom (rather than the normal ability for your spellcasting) when determining the save DC for the spell. In addition, you must have a Wisdom score equal to 10 + the spell's level in order to prepare or cast a spell gained from this feat. Each day, you may prepare (or cast, if you cast spells without preparation) a maximum of one of these domains spells of each level.

Special
You can take this feat more than once. Each time, you must select a different domain available to the same deity you chose the fi rst time you selected the feat. For example, a character who chose Heironeous and the Good domain with his fi rst selection could choose Law or War with successive selections of the same feat. He couldn't choose Protection, since that domain isn't available to clerics of Heironeous.

[Barsoom]

Have you checked out Arcane Disciple?
That would have been my first suggestion, but alas, Guidance of the Avatar is not in any domain.

[Nettlekid]

I second Wyrm Wizard, and also suggest Recaster. It's Changeling only, from Races of Eberron, and works similarly to the Wyrm Wizard in that you can grab a spell from any list.

[Krobar]

That would have been my first suggestion, but alas, Guidance of the Avatar is not in any domain.

Gotcha. Didn't think of that.

[Gildedragon]

If you could learn spells from stuff:

Archivist 1
Feat: alternate spell source
Scroll of Guidance of the Avatar
Transcribe to arcane

But as a sorcerer... Have a Mystic Theurge dragon teach you?

Grab anyspell from the Spell domain, do the shenanigans above to get it in a spellbook...

[Curmudgeon]

Upon rereading Precocious Apprentice, however I noticed that it does not require the spell be normally available to your class, just a school you have access to (divination). However it also doesn't say that I actually learn the spell, so it would be lost as a sorcerer once I'm able to cast 2nd level spells.
What's the level of Guidance of the Avatar to someone who doesn't use the Cleric spell list? It's undefined. Spells have level numbers only with reference to particular classes. Look at Control Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWater.htm), then tell me what its level is to an Assassin. If you come up with any answer other than "—", you're making stuff up.

[nedz]

Well there's the Rainbow Servant route, but since you need 10 levels of that, this would be a very long term solution.

[Amnestic]

Hang out with a Cleric buddy until you learn how to cast it yourself?


A sorcerer’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of your choice. At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study. The sorcerer can’t use this method of spell acquisition to learn spells at a faster rate, however.

SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm)

My emphasis.

[Curmudgeon]

Hang out with a Cleric buddy until you learn how to cast it yourself?
The problem here is that your "Cleric buddy" really has nothing for you to study. They simply pray, and their deity either grants the spell or doesn't. There aren't any writings, lectures, or other study materials. You see your Cleric buddy kneeling/staring at his navel/whatever for an hour, and that's it.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I don't like having to rely on items at all, they are too easily lost. I would rather be able to cast it as soon as possible as part of the character's whole shtick making PrCs a less desirable option, but thank you, I'll look into the Wyrm Wizard and Unseen Seer.

Upon rereading Precocious Apprentice, however I noticed that it does not require the spell be normally available to your class, just a school you have access to (divination). However it also doesn't say that I actually learn the spell, so it would be lost as a sorcerer once I'm able to cast 2nd level spells.

Extra Spell doesn't specify that it must be from the same class, but waiting until I can cast 3rd level spells as a sorcerer is a long wait. I suppose I could Earth, Sanctum a spell up to 3rd and take extra spell at level one with loredrake, but that is a pretty high feat investment and opening a door to cheese I'ld like to skirt away from.

Since you mention loredrake i assume you have the dragon type.
Whats stopping you from simply taking one of the sovereign archetypes that allow cleric spells as arcane spells?

[Nettlekid]

What's your race and intended build? Let's see where we can go from there. Are you a Mailman Sorcerer?

[Barsoom]

The problem here is that your "Cleric buddy" really has nothing for you to study. They simply pray, and their deity either grants the spell or doesn't. There aren't any writings, lectures, or other study materials. You see your Cleric buddy kneeling/staring at his navel/whatever for an hour, and that's it.
It's called "making a Spellcraft check", and the fluff is whatever you wish it to be.

[DMVerdandi]

You COULD play as a spellcaster in the srd.
It's a sorcerer that can change his casting stat, and cast spells from the wiz,clr,drd lists.

Sounds bad at first, but in reality, is still overshadowed by the tier 1 classes due to their variants, class abilities and casting mechanics.

Archivist,cleric,druid, artificer, and erudite will still put a hurting on the spellcaster when it comes to variety AND combat.

It's just better than a sorcerer. I would say it is at the absolute bottom of tier 1 since it still can't gain more spells known. It just has a bigger and better list.

[Amnestic]

The problem here is that your "Cleric buddy" really has nothing for you to study. They simply pray, and their deity either grants the spell or doesn't. There aren't any writings, lectures, or other study materials. You see your Cleric buddy kneeling/staring at his navel/whatever for an hour, and that's it.

And then you watch him cast it. You watch his magic, make a spellcraft check (as Barsoom) says, and study that part of it. Yes, there's no hard and fast rules for how it should work exactly. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered as a possible method.

WotC included that text for a reason. At the time of writing (as far as I know), the only casters besides Sorc were Wizards (shared list so it's clearly not referencing them), Bard, Druid and Cleric. Bards are spontaneous, like a sorcerer, so they'd learn from watching it be cast. Why would that work for learning Bard spells but not Clerics/Druids?

[Pyromancer999]

If you have the ability to cast 3rd level spells, you could technically use the Extra Spell feat to gain it. It allows you to add a spell of any level up to one less than the highest you can cast to your spell list.

[nedz]

Divine Insight is another option though it does stack with Guidance of the Avatar. It's not in any domain either, but it is in the Paladin list at level 2 as well as the Cleric one; so this might be available via Prestige Paladin.

[Curmudgeon]

If you have the ability to cast 3rd level spells, you could technically use the Extra Spell feat to gain it. It allows you to add a spell of any level up to one less than the highest you can cast to your spell list.
Technically, no, you can't. What's the highest level Cleric spell you can cast? When you can produce that number, subtract one from it. If you can't produce any number, you can't do the arithmetic.

[8wGremlin]

If your allowed look at the Maho-Tsukai (Oriental Adventures pg237)
It's a prestige class, that you can enter with any Divine or Arcane caster.

One of the features is that you can trade in your old spell casting class, to have caster levels of Maho-Tsukai spell casting levels.

You have spells known that can be taken from your old class or the Maho-Tsukai spell list. BUT all spells are Arcane now, and your spell casting stat is now Taint.

Start as a Cleric and become Maho-Tsukai, sack all your cleric levels and have equivalent Maho-Tsukai spell casting.

might work for you.

[Scow2]

Have you tried researching an arcane version of the spell? You're allowed to try to do that (But it might not be as powerful, or require a higher level spellslot)

[Diarmuid]

Slightly off topic, but would most consider that spell "core"? It's got no source listed and is strictly better than other similar 2nd level divine spells that grant bonuses to skills.

I've got a character who would love to use that spell, but I dont think my DM would let it fly when it so badly outclasses Divine Insight (I dont think for a moment the duration difference makes up for the discrepency in bonus).

[Curmudgeon]

Slightly off topic, but would most consider that spell "core"?
No, of course not. The books which say "CORE RULEBOOK" on the cover are just the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual. Nothing else is "core".

[nedz]

Well many people define Core to be the SRD, which also includes some UA stuff, YMMV; but this is academic since GotA is not in the SRD. GotA is in BoED IIRC ?

[Piggy Knowles]

Well many people define Core to be the SRD, which also includes some UA stuff, YMMV; but this is academic since GotA is not in the SRD. GotA is in BoED IIRC ?

Nope. It's an online only spell, of the same caliber as Mirror Move and Acorn of Far Travel, and should face similar raised eyebrows if someone tries to bring it to your table.

[Curmudgeon]

GotA is in BoED IIRC ?
No, Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) is exactly where the link leads: the online D&D Spellbook.

[nedz]

OK — Thanks, but definitely not Core in any event.

[Maginomicon]

I realize everyone rags on the official variants, but have you considered a Generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm) (as opposed to a sorcerer) ?

Sure you lose the sorcerer fluff, but apart from the Draconic Heritage stuff (et al) there's not a whole lot of mechanical stuff only available to sorcerers anyway.

If you take generic spellcaster however, you can specify your generic spellcaster casting-stat as CHA (making you an arcane spellcaster) and then it's almost functionally identical to a sorcerer. Then you can simply add Guidance of the Avatar to your spells known list directly (the "arcane" or "divine" terminology in the class description is just for determining what "type" of magic you have for things like scrolls, almost like the difference between Ruby and Python).

The Generic Spellcaster's spell progression is admittedly slower than a sorcerer, but it's worth it when you can do stuff like this (or get sneak attack as a spellcaster class feature).