New to 4e, reccomend me a class?

[shadow_archmagi]

After an initial bad experience with 4e, we've decided to give it another chance. There's one member of the group that's quite enamored with it and he's volunteered to run the game.

So, in 3.5, I was really fond of the artificer, sorcerer, and psion. Obviously I won't have an infinite number of world-changing options at my fingertips at all times in 4e, but I'd like something similar, something with a lot of bells and whistles to keep me occupied.


I have access to the entire 4e library, and all races are allowed. We'll be starting at level 1.

EDIT: GM has banned artificers and psions, since they don't fit into his homebrew setting thematically.

[Kurald Galain]

...wizard?

We were just discussing that in another thread here. If by world-changing you mean putting up big walls, zones, and clouds, then nobody does it better.

[neonchameleon]

I think you're looking for the 4e Wizard or Mage for three reasons.

1: Cantrips. Wizards get four utility spells for free that allow them to mess with stuff.
2: Ritual casting. It's where all the big magic has been stashed. (Although it won't really happen at low levels as it's expensive).
3: A huge variety of spells, turning them into a swiss army knife in combat. And lots of forced movement allowing them to rearrange the battlefield.

(If you go mage, there are plenty of feats to get you Ritual Casting).

Three other candidates:

The Bard. Vicious Mockery at will as an attack spell is just plain fun. They are (like Wizards) ritual casters. They can take as many multiclass feats as they want - which means each time they get a new feat they can have a new power in addition to their class powers. And being leaders they need to be involved with every part of the battlefield, tracking everyone's hit points and getting to heal and slide them.

The Fighter. Out of combat they are a little weak (one skill down) but you can make them ritual casters quite happily - and skills aren't exactly hard to get in 4e. In combat the entire battle pivots round a fighter, who wants to get where the fighting is thickest, monitor the whole thing, and dominate the enemies, jumping into the middle of their turns to attack them when they take their eye off you. A 4e PHB fighter with no powers is about equivalent to a 3e Lockdown fighter with six feats. It's all on the tactical positioning in combat.

The Feylock. Fey Warlocks are normally considered a weak class because they are tricky to play well. First they, being Warlocks, do relatively low damage - and need to curse enemies for decent damage, which is fiddly. Next they debuff the enemy with their attacks. Their standard at will makes them invisible to their target, for interesting shenanigans. (Make them invisible to the enemy, take Eldritch Strike as your other at will in place of Eldritch blast, and then walk up to them - if they walk past you you get an Opportunity Attack - if they try to attack you, you are invisible). If they move far enough they get Shadow Walk - i.e. concealment. They aren't weak but you need to work hard to make them effective.

[Kaiisaxo]

Well, how about an actual sorcerer? No ritual casting by default, sadly. (Though Cosmic and Dragon sorcerers usually can manage to have some good Int and you get diplomacy and nature as class skills so the potential is there). But they have some serious daily potential, and are very reliable with damage (and very unfiddly unless you go for the spellfury feats).

Storm sorcerers are very focussed into repositioning, wild sorcerers are quite unpredictable but condition happy, and dragon sorcerers durable.(haven't played cosmic ones though) They have some good sustainable dailies and can deal a good amount of conditions, not to mention some at-will and encounter utilities that allow for great mobility (teleport, shift, fly) and their utility dailies are terrific.

[Akodo Makama]

Fighter, or maybe Warlord.

Now that the chorus of "WHAT?!?" has dies down, I'll explain.

1) One of the biggest reasons people have bad experiences with 4e is by trying to make their favorite concept from 3e and having it fail miserably (due to some lacking feat, or a combo that doesn't anymore, or a change to some effect). By choosing something completely different, you won't be temped to think in 3e terms, or have 3e expectations for what abilities, powers, spells, feats, etc would do.

2) It will make a clean break for the 4e setting. It will be less likely for you to compare the 3e and 4e game experience, as they will be completely different. This way you can focus on the fun you're having now, rather than lamenting the fun you had before.

3) Fighters sucked in 3e, and rock in 4e. Playing one showcases just how different the underlying assumptions of the systems are; far better than looking at the books ever could. Specifically, fighters embody the teamwork aspect of the game: while dealing respectable damage, their tricks focus on keeping the enemy away from their buddies; Their buddies focus on keeping the baddies dead, or otherwise crippled.

4) Trying something different forces you to think in new and different ways, and everyone should do that from time to time anyway. It keeps your brain from getting old.

[Yakk]

Human Axe&Shield Fighter, one handed Weapon technique, 18 strength, 16 con, 14 wis, Weapon Prof (Waraxe), Axe Expertise (reroll a 1 on damage, +1 to hit), Brash Strike (+10 vs AC, 1d12+7 damage, grant CA to target), Tide of Iron (+8 vs AC, 1d12+4 damage, push 1 and shift into empty space), Threatening Rush (mark everyone adjacent on hit, +8 vs AC, 1d12 damage, can be used on a charge), wearing Scale and a Heavy Shield (19 AC).

Or same with a Dwarf (18 str 18 con 14 wis) and Dwarven Weapon Training (-1 to hit, +2 to damage (+1 extra damage on Brash Strike) compared to above fighter, same weapon).

Villian's Menace or the Dark Sun daily (forgot its name).

Pressing Attack encounter (make an attack, shift, make another attack on another target).

Figure out the Marking and OA mechanics (OA on leaving a square via "move" action, and ranged attacks, one per opponents turn) (mark punishment is an immediate interrupt, which is different than an OA: one per round but not on your turn, and doesn't take your OA so you can use it and an OA on the same turn). When someone provokes an OA by moving, you get a +2 to hit (from wis) and a hit stops the move, which makes you seriously sticky.

The 4e fighter is a joy to fight with -- they really are the anchor of the battlefield.

[Kaiisaxo]

I would advise against going too much counter-type. My first ever 4e pc was a fighter and found it too overwhelming and alien to play, however once I went back to casters that feeling went away. I suggest staying true to character type, the easiest way to abhorr 4e is to play the wrong kind of PC, remember we are talking about someone who got a bad experience before. A staff wild sorcerer with ritual casting or a bard should do fine (speciall because this is going to be a low op group), don' make the misake of playing somehing too complex at a first go. Yes fighters are awesome, but they are also complex to play at a first try, If one is having a bad time playing 4e with a very different kind of character than usual it is easier to blame it on the system instead of realizing it is just because of playing the wrong kind of character.