About Time for the MitD to Defect?

[DaggerPen]

*clings to the forum* I'm so glad the server's okay again.

But to the topic at hand: with the newest update, we've seen that the Order is, well, in pretty serious trouble. No spellcasters outside of Elan, Belkar a hard sneeze away from death, Haley - does Haley even have a way to hurt Xykon? - Roy surprised and demotivated and Xykon and Redcloak right there.

There've been a few suggested ways to avoid a TPK. V showing up at the last minute, the Linear Guild and Team Evil duking it out, et cetera, et cetera. But with the imminent danger of Xykon and co. here, I think that something else might save their hides.

I think the MitD might well defect here.

It does seem like it's a bit early in the storyline for that to happen, but at the same time - MitD knows Belkar, Haley and Roy. Roy was Mr. Flopsy at his tea party, and Haley and Belkar identified themselves as O-Chul's friends during said tea party. The MitD has been looking for O-Chul, and has been questioning his loyalties.

So, given the possibility of the people most likely to help him find O-Chul being killed, I think that MitD might turn against Team Evil here.

[thereaper]

It feels too soon if what we know is correct.

MitD defecting would be something that would have to happen at the end of his character development. We have at least one more gate to go (never mind the world within the world).

Also, we still have the Chekhov's Gun of

the spell Xykon put on MitD to eat Redcloak if he ever betrays Xykon

[Antipode]

Wait a tick, when was that lovely spoilered contingency put there?

[thereaper]

Supposedly in SoD, or so I've heard.

[dtilque]

Yes, in SoD.

I agree that it doesn't feel like the time for the MitD to defect. However, if Roy tries to take on Xykon again (could his anti-spellcaster feat work here?), and Haley goes against Redcloak (I'm sure she can dodge an Implosion), then we'll see Elan vs MitD. That has much potential for hilarity.

[Lord Torath]

I suspect we'll need O'Chul to be present for MitD to defect. Granted, Roy was a guest at the Tea Party, but he wasn't really around long enough to have a big impact. Might get a "Mr. Flopsy! I've missed you!" remark, but not much more. There's also the fact that Hailey and Belkar stole one of the MitD's guests (well, two, but they gave one back), and that they were identified as people he's supposed to eat. And only that very brief interaction links the Order to Mr. Stiffly in MitD's mind. (Because V was not identified as a member of the Order when she rescued O'Chul).

[Gift Jeraff]

What if he was left in Xykon's fortress, to scare/annoy anyone who manages to gets past the defenses? But in a different room from the fauxlactery so he can't break it. And with the demon-roaches babysitting him.

For meta reasons, this would be to clear up "character space" (as Nale noted in the Battle for Azure City) as things are getting pretty crowded, and because the roaches always scurry off when a scene gets too dramatic.

[King of Nowhere]

no, too early for that. it will have to take place in the climatic last batle, when the mitd will be revealed

[ThePhantasm]

I don't think MiTD will defect before meeting O-Chul again.

[Magesmiley]

I don't think that it is the right time yet.

Durkon's demise (and what may be a long stint as a vampire) opens the interesting possibility that another character may join the Order for a bit, and O-Chul is at the top of the candidate list IMO.

I think that O-Chul being with the OOTS or at least assisting them in battle is going to be a necessary ingredient for MitD to change sides.

[Olinser]

I could ALSO see Elan pulling out a, "Hey dude in the darkness, we're all going to meet O-Chul at the last Gate and have a tea party - want to come along?"

[Dumbestupidiot]

The next Gate has all sorts of terrifying strong monsters, It seems far more likely that that is the sort of place for MitD to be affected by a spell, or meet his parents, or, like other's have said, meet O'chul. So defection is unlikely although further faith shaking of his faith in his travelling companions might be due, though it that might feel like that would be putting another character's development on top of this potent and barely restrained volcano of action

[thereaper]

I don't think that it is the right time yet.

Durkon's demise (and what may be a long stint as a vampire) opens the interesting possibility that another character may join the Order for a bit, and O-Chul is at the top of the candidate list IMO.

I think that O-Chul being with the OOTS or at least assisting them in battle is going to be a necessary ingredient for MitD to change sides.

This makes a strange sort of sense. O-Chul joins the group to replace Durkon, they get Durkon back, Belkar dies, and O-Chul stays on as Belkar's replacement.

[Finagle]

no, too early for that. it will have to take place in the climatic last batle, when the mitd will be revealed
Yup. Xykon will finally do something so repulsive MITD will turn on him. MITD needs a lot more character development before this happens, though. Note that
Xykon's spell won't protect him, it only protects him if Redcloak betrays him. Didn't say anything about MITD deciding on his own to do it.

[Aasimar]

Like others have said, it's not even close to that time yet.

Though it might be time for him to witness something that pushes him all the way up to the edge, which will cause him to have to think about this seriously, up to the moment where he does.

[Olinser]

Yup. Xykon will finally do something so repulsive MITD will turn on him. MITD needs a lot more character development before this happens, though. Note that
Xykon's spell won't protect him, it only protects him if Redcloak betrays him. Didn't say anything about MITD deciding on his own to do it.

Yes, but it could very well be that the trigger to make the MiTD realize that he doesn't want to hang out with these guys anymore is the spell going off and being forced to eat Redcloak.

Being forced against your will to eat a living being that you've spent a LOT of time with would definitely cause him some angst.

[Snails]

I don't think MiTD will defect before meeting O-Chul again.

I doubt we have seen the last of O-Chul or Thog. Kraagor's Gate seems like a more likely venue for a battle where the Sapphire Guard and Team Evil and LG to throw all their meatshield chips into the mix.

I don't think MitD will defect until after seeing O-Chul perish, probably saving Roy's or other member of the Order's life, probably by Redcloak's hand.

I like the suggestion that Elan pairs off with the MitD in an upcoming brawl. Elan is exactly the kind of person who might catalyze character development in the MitD. I bet MitD would love to meet Banjo.

[Redgoblin]

I'm not convinced that the scene from SOD is actually a Checkov's gun. Rich explicitly said that we wouldn't need SOD to understand why something happens, and MitD eating Redcloak for no apparent reason would definitely qualify as needing explanation. I suspect it was just thrown in to show that Xykon doesn't trust Redcloak.

Additionally, MitD could defect now and still satisfy the foreshadowing if Rich wanted to.
Because, the final climactic battle between OOTS & Team Evil is the most likely place for a betrayal to happen. If MitD defects he would be there for that event, and could still eat Redcloak.

[Snails]

The hypothesis that O-Chul will die by Redcloak's hand at Kraagor's Gate looks even more attractive then.

[Bulldog Psion]

Yes, that could certainly be a turning point. O-Chul is headed to Kraagor's Gate right now, isn't he, along with Lien?

[Kish]

I'm not convinced that the scene from SOD is actually a Checkov's gun. Rich explicitly said that we wouldn't need SOD to understand why something happens, and MitD eating Redcloak for no apparent reason would definitely qualify as needing explanation. I suspect it was just thrown in to show that Xykon doesn't trust Redcloak.

He said that when anything introduced in print-only content becomes relevant to the main plot, it will be spelled out in the main plot. This is often misquoted as "nothing introduced in print-only content will ever matter"; I even remember someone posting and acting angry and betrayed when Redcloak told Tsukiko the truth about the ritual. But the most what Rich actually said might mean, as far as Xykon's enchantment on the creature in the darkness, is that its presence will be spelled out at least one panel before the creature eats Redcloak--and I think even that is pushing it. "Why is the creature in the darkness nomming Redcloak?" :xykon: "You thought I wasn't prepared for Redcloak to betray me?"=any commitment Rich ever made is fulfilled.

[Lord Ensifer]

O-Chul is headed to Kraagor's Gate right now, isn't he, along with Lien?

As I recall, the Giant said in that Don't Split the Party introduction that
O'Chul would have a major role to play, though not in the next book (i.e. he's probably not showing up in the desert).

So he's definitely going to be a big deal at Kraagor's Gate.

[_Jarlaxle_]

At the last gate after Xykon defeated everyone he will gloat over them and while he is slowly killing O'Chul the MitD will turn on him and throw him in the rift that has opened over the gate.:smallamused:

[Fish]

I agree: not yet.

My hypothesis is that the runes in the hallway prevent the use of spellcasting. Rich has gone out of his way to eliminate all non-magic-wielders arrayed against the Order (Thog, Sabine, the ranger kobold, presumably Tarquin and Kilkil) and remove or exempt all magic from the Order (Vaarsuvius, Durkon, and Elan "doesn't count"). This means that the showdown will be largely a physical battle between all the groups concerned.

That leaves Roy, Haley, and whatever non-spell power possessed by Elan, Zz'dtri, Xykon, Redcloak, Durkon, Malack, Kilkil, Nale...

...and two others. The Monster in the Dark, and Tarquin. I presume he must return at a dramatic moment.

How does the ultimate it's-all-according-to-my-plan fighter defeat the ultimate nobody-knows-what-he-is monster? Plus ... Tarquin will be trying to hurt Roy (Mr Flopsy). MitD won't like that.

That's my take.

[ZarDaranth]

I don't think the MitD will ever "defect" per se; I think he'll have a dramatic change in the final encounter for Kraagor's gate. I mean, that's where he'll meet O-Chul again, right?

I'm calling it right now. O-Chul's gonna die, possibly to the Order/Team Evil fighting (as a collateral damage death), and MitD will snap, losing the immaturity/stupidity/ignorance and he'll have full control over his power. And he'll be pissed* at both sides, and anyone who wants to pass will have to get past him.

In the lair of great beasts of strength, the MitD will be the last barrier to the gate for either side.


*(I'm thinking like Thog without ice cream, mixed with a rampage that make's Belkar's mountain of corpses look like a joke)