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Kol Korran
2013-04-29, 03:20 AM
Hey folks, my party just agreed to try the FATE core system. They asked me to run an introductory game (Similar to what you make in cons, with premade characters and such). for them to try the new concept and rules of Fate, and decide whether they like it or not.

I may have some time to prepare this, as I need to familiarize myself with the rules (I have very very little experience with Fate) so I thought to use this thread to get advice on such matters.

What I'm looking for:
- Any general advice for an introductory game.
- Any general advice for a FATE game.
- Once we decide on a genre/ style of game, specific advice and ideas for that.

A few things about us:
- The session is supposed to last about 6-7 hours.
- Non of us have any experience in the Fate system, we come from D&D 3.5 and shadowrun background.
- We're in our 30-40, so darker/ more serious stuff is ok, but we like goofing off and humor too.
- We're not used to the level of player involvement in the game that Fate encourages (I assume) so this may take getting used to.
- We're not used to failures/ complication being parts of the story instigated by the players (compels) so this may take getting used to as well.

My current general ideas:
- The characters are a part of a small- mid sized community that gets attacked by... something (Seven Samurai scenerio, zombie apocalypse, bandits, "Return the slab" chapter from Courage the cowardly dog show)- Basically they have to fend off periodical attacks, and try to find a more encompassing solution in the meant time (kill of the leades of the opposition, find out why they are attacking, evacuate everyone, find a cure to the zombie plauge and so on)

- A race! the party are part of some crew (space ship/ air ship) who tries to win some sort of race against opposing forces (current though is in Eberron a race around the Mournland). Sort of like the Amazing Race, only potentially lethal.

- The contained world: during a festival/ convention/ somethign else some supernatural phenomena happens, trapping the characters in some alternate world/ demi planes where some rules are different. they need to find out why this happened, and how to get out.

I think all 3 could work for a 6-7 hours session. I intend to do a short start, quick turn to the action, in about mid session one small reveal and twist, and at the end at a final confrontation another reveal and small twist. What do you think?

Please help making this a successful intro session! :smallsmile:

Johnoghue
2013-04-29, 10:40 AM
Heya,

First off, AWESOME! Fate is spectacular.

Right now, until the new Fate Core hits stands (SO AWESOME), my money is on Bulldogs! or Spirit of the Century as the Best fate game out there. Dresden Files is MAGNIFICENT but doesn't quite sound like what you are looking for (though again, It kicks ass and takes names.)

A couple cool GM hacks, Pointers and Whatnot that help, stop me if I go to Fate geeky.

Aspects
Aspects are the Awesome sauce that makes the FATE engine Run. I am guessing you know this, but I like saying it. The key with Aspects is to walk the line of utility and cleverness. I have seen aspects like "Paging Dr Wight" which seemed like a really good idea at the time, but the utility wasn't there. Aspects like "Trust me, I'm a Dr" or "I'm not that Kinda Dr" while thematically similar, have more utility.

Now when I say Utility, I do mean more then just its easy to spend a FP and get a +2. The double edge is the key. The dream aspect is one that perfectly describes your character, is useful in some instances and creates complications in others. You can have some that weigh one way or the other, and that's gonna happen. But make it clear to your players that if you are all aspects are rocking the upside, they will be A: a boring character and B: Never get FP. Both problematic :)

the Blank Sheet
Tucked away in various editions is the Blank Character sheet start rules. You Slap on a name, and GO! Skills, Stunts, Aspects are picked up on the fly. In theory this is really Terrifying to some people. In practice, its awesome... but there are some catches. Mostly its stunts.

Even if you don't go full blank, have people leave a few slots empty for skills ans aspects and even stunts. During the course of game, BRILLIANT aspects will just Pop up... and you wanna have room for them. Moreover, let people ditch aspects whenever they want if they haven't used them in a memorable way yet.

Stunts
The Stunts can be a little... onerous to dig through so I recommend Looking at them for flavor and they winging it. The Fast and loose rules for Stunts are they Give a Bonus in a certain situation (Usually +2), let you use a Skill in an unusual way, or generally cover the weird/cool/interesting stuff that falls between. The big thing to remember about stunts is they are basically consist reliably abilities that are applicable whenever it is clear they should be. Moreover, if a player has an idea for a Stunt that you aren't sure about, charge them an extra refresh, or make it cost a fate point... or maybe even both if its crazy.

Ok on to other stuff if I haven't lost you yet.

Johnoghue's patented Epic Zombie Attack:
Ok, a zombie horde. There are a couple ways to handle it, but here is how I do it in a pinch. Zombies are Mediocre (+0) at everything on their own. Computer Geeks kill zombies one on one without breaking a sweat. A group though... I crank it up. Night of the living dead zombies? Divide their number in half, that's their new +. 8 Zombies are SCARY, and are great in a fight (28 days later zombies might be 1 for 1, Walking dead might be 1/4). They attack as one, though feel free to describe it however you want. When they kill them, just remove a number of zombies equal to the shifts. As they number thins, they get easier.

This can work really well as a ramp up as well. Can they kill zombies fast enough to stop them from being a real threat? Can they set up Scene aspects to make it easier to kill groups of zombies? They killing it to easily, What if there are two Hordes? or three?

You can also have aspects that unlock at a certain point. So Zombies have the aspects say... "Braaaaaaaaaains" "The Undead" "Walking Corpse" "drawn to sounds" or whatnot. When say a six pack of Zombies get together they might Unlock "The Horde" or "Unending Wave". When a Horde is formed, it might even create scene aspects like "Bodies, everwhere" or "Horror beyond measure" They might even loose some aspects, which can be a great shock of they players go to call on them and they aren't there anymore while they group.

Suddenly the simple zombie is part of a horde, the tactics chance, they flavor changes, but its still zombies. And best of all its SUPER easy to track, and players will FEEL their success and failure. I would get a feel for how dangerous you want it to be, a Pack of 16 Zombies swinging +8... That can be Super Bad. I tend to break that up into 2 Hordes at +4 each

Plus, there are always more zombies.

Ok I'l done for now, good luck!

Kol Korran
2013-04-29, 02:39 PM
First of all, an update. The group have decided to go for a post apocalyptic kind of setting, something on the lines of Fallout, but perhaps with a bit of supernatural stuff going on. Haven't decided where to place it yet. Thinking of either The US (Since that is where the Fallout series takes place, and probably what the players might be expecting.) Or perhaps Israel/ middle east setting (since that is where we live and I can build on twisting and breaking all kind of premises we're familiar with.

I'm thinking to use on of the ideas I mentioned above- the party are people from some sort of town beset by bandits/ zombies/ ghouls/ bandits or the like, and they have to find some way to deal with the situation, with the enemies coming at waves after dark, and in the day the party investigate/ barricade/ deals with the frantic populace.

Thoughts and Ideas:
1) What sort of menace should befal this little community? which sort of enemies? I need enough surprises for 2-3 waves.

2) what is the mystery behind the attackers? what drives them on?

3) what sort of challenges can I build, what options to include in the town to enable a use of most kind of skills?

4) And what sort of 6-8 interesting cool characters can I make to fit this little game? what aspects, skills and concepts?

Also, some good news- One of the players have got real interested in the game and read the entire thing! He might be able to help me in game.

And now to reply...


Heya,

First off, AWESOME! Fate is spectacular.

Right now, until the new Fate Core hits stands (SO AWESOME), my money is on Bulldogs! or Spirit of the Century as the Best fate game out there. Dresden Files is MAGNIFICENT but doesn't quite sound like what you are looking for (though again, It kicks ass and takes names.)
Thanks for the enthusiasm! I got the latest digital draft the publishes allowed to share. Once the book comes out I'll be buying it, as well as the Toolkit supplement (at least), but for now I think we'll just use the rules of the draft.


Aspects
Aspects are the Awesome sauce that makes the FATE engine Run I agree. This will probably be one of the parts most hard to grasp for D&D players. I think I get the balance needed, but we'll learn as we go along.


the Blank Sheet
I don't know how this works, But I think I sort of understand from your explanation. I'm not sure it will work for new players, inexperienced to the system. They don't understand quite how the skills and stunts and aspect work, now they need to make them on the fly? Um... not for this game.


Stunts
I've looked at the stunts suggested in the book. I haven't read how to make your own stunts yet though. I probably will till I get to the game. But currently I think of sticking mostly to the stunts suggested, to give the players more grounding. If a character feels like it should have a special stunt though, I'll try to make one.


Ok on to other stuff if I haven't lost you yet.
Not at all! I came asking for advice, didn't I? It's most appreciated!


Johnoghue's patented Epic Zombie Attack:
Wha...? Ok, here is where I started losing you, getting confused... As I've said above, I'm not sure I'll be using zombies, but Maybe I can learn fro ma similar example.


Ok, a zombie horde. There are a couple ways to handle it, but here is how I do it in a pinch. Zombies are Mediocre (+0) at everything on their own. Computer Geeks kill zombies one on one without breaking a sweat. A group though... I crank it up. Night of the living dead zombies?
divide their number in half, that's their new +.
"Night of the living dead"? some sort of well known movie I don't know? What makes them tougher? And by "that's their new +" you mean they now have a +1 skill check?


8 Zombies are SCARY, and are great in a fight (28 days later zombies might be 1 for 1, Walking dead might be 1/4).
Again... Wha...?


This can work really well as a ramp up as well. Can they kill zombies fast enough to stop them from being a real threat? Can they set up Scene aspects to make it easier to kill groups of zombies? They killing it to easily, What if there are two Hordes? or three? This I understand. variable numbers, and objectives outside just "killing them all". Can work nicely.

Y
ou can also have aspects that unlock at a certain point. So Zombies have the aspects say... "Braaaaaaaaaains" "The Undead" "Walking Corpse" "drawn to sounds" or whatnot. When say a six pack of Zombies get together they might Unlock "The Horde" or "Unending Wave". When a Horde is formed, it might even create scene aspects like "Bodies, everwhere" or "Horror beyond measure" They might even loose some aspects, which can be a great shock of they players go to call on them and they aren't there anymore while they group.
This is really cool! I like that! maybe as a horde, or with a more horrific aspect they might be able to cause mental stress as well?


Suddenly the simple zombie is part of a horde, the tactics chance, they flavor changes, but its still zombies. And best of all its SUPER easy to track, and players will FEEL their success and failure. I would get a feel for how dangerous you want it to be, a Pack of 16 Zombies swinging +8... That can be Super Bad. I tend to break that up into 2 Hordes at +4 each Ok, may have lost you there- a group becomes a sort of a... single mob creature? with greater skill, perhaps more shifts, that gets easier to deal with as shifts are taken down?


Ok I'm done for now, good luck!
Thanks a lot!

Johnoghue
2013-04-29, 03:27 PM
Heya,

Whoops... I might have been a tad over enthusiastic.

So if you have the FATE Core stuff, you should be golden. I totally understand the use of Pregen Stunts, they make things flow really quick and are pretty awesome in their own right.

As to the Zombie Horde thing, I was kinda throwing it out there as an example but should have been more clear. It is sorta out of the box/rules idea I have used in the past to mix it up to make a classic intro scenario.

You start with a Critter, whether is Zombies, CHUDS, mutant chimps, Skeletons, or whatever. You have a single creature that is not super threatening once you get passed the initial "Oh **** its a <WHatever>." Players fight them, they learn the system, they prepare for what will obviously be a fight with more of them, prepping the house, making traps, whatever. They make scene aspects to help them later.

They fight more of them and then suddenly there are two, or three or 10 working togetherish and now its different. Its the same creature, but how you deal with it might change, its weaknesses might change, it's strengths can change. In some lights, it might as well be a new creature. There are a bunch of ways or representing this, and Fate is nothing if not Flexible as all heck. I was just floating one out there that has worked for me in the past, but it might not be what you are looking for.

~~Edit~~~
Also: Zombies inflicting Mental Stress? Oh Yes! Call it fear, call it exhaustion, call it what you will. Zombies at the Door Moaning, pounding, their relentless smell permeating the air... Sure they are "safe" behind the walls, but who can sleep with that moaning. Who is would not be unnerved by them being mere feet away... mental stress that people will not necessarily see coming. Someone takes a Consequence like "I Can't take it any more" and you are in business... Plus then you touch upon the awesome that is a good zombie movie. The people are often worse then the zombies...

Good luck man, FATE is so much fun!

Johnoghue

Oh and Footnote:
Re: Zombie Movies and toughness - Night of the Living Dead zombies, George Romero's Classic B&W movie from the 60s that was remade in the 80s has push over, slow ass shambling zombies (Famously they actually do push them over) that are only really scary when they get the jump on you or are in a horde. I should have rated them much lower then AMC's (And the Comic of course) Walking Dead zombies. 28 Days later has what are often referred to as "Fast Zombies" which is to say they are more of the "Oh sweet Jebus those are not you daddy's shambling corpses" running, climbing, face eating, etc zombies. Looks like World War Z will also feature this sort of zombie. However, this is a rabbit hole of Zombie trivial and theory you were not really looking for... so I'll leave it at that,

Kol Korran
2013-04-30, 01:52 AM
Hehe I've used the same trick about creatures in D&D Johnoghue. I call it "Something familiar, something different" as a rule to spice up my encounters (Not just creatures). I appreciate your help, even the horror movie anecdotes- every day you learn something new, no?

I've started reading the rules in more depth, and i'm currently in the chapter about aspects and Fate points. I have a few questions about mechanics:

1) Invoking a situation aspect: does this cost a fate point like character aspects do? I'm not talking about creating an advantage, (which if i understand gets a free invoke, or two if you've succeeded with style). I'm talking about aspects allready on the scene ("rough terrain", "welcoming crowd") or aspects the PCs create before hand ("trapped ditches", "explosives", "town support")

2) player compelling another character's aspect: it says this cost a fate point. being compelled also means you get a fate point. do both of these occur? (basically a fate point transferring between compeler and compeled)

3) what if the PCs get allies on their side? significant ones, not just part of the mob? do these get fate points as well? are they tracked separately?

4) what if a compel (most likely a game aspect) is used to complicate the entire party? for example lets say the party is trying to make an argument to flee a besieged town, but the mayor uses a game aspect to convince the town's people to stay, forcing the PCs to stay and help them. who gets the fate point/s?
-----------------------
I am thinking about some of the basics, and I think I'd like to start from the general feel of the game, and the characters. After all- Fate revolves around the characters and their aspects, no?

So some thoughs:
Game aspects
I'm thinking about keeping it to two current issues. one open (detailing the hardships of a post apocalyptic world) and the other will be a secret issue (for a short time) detailing the current problem (whatever i'll decide it to be)

Work in progress names for the aspects:
1) survival theme of a post apocalytpic world:
- "Tough world, tough life. try to stay alive."
- "Ekking an existence out of the wilderness"
- "Broken world, broken civilization, tough people"
- or simply "post apocalyptic world"?

I want to be able to confer problems such as ammo running out, or rifles/ equipment getting broken or jammed, or dealing with the harsh environment or people. But also to showcase these are tough resourceful people. used to survive.

2) current problem, thinking of a besieged town at the moment:
- "Hundreds of them! all around us!"
- "surrounded and alone!"
- "They're coming for us all!"

I want to show case elements of being vastly outnumbered, a "hopeless" situation, nd the panic in the town.


core concepts for characters:
I need 6 characters, I want ot make them part impressive and very skilled, part jaded/ odd balls/ something amiss. I also want them to have widely varied skill sets in order for people not to step on each other's toes. I skimmed the skills chapter, so i'll get more into that in depth later, but here are a few ideas:

the cynical sheriff

1) High concept:"I'm the sheriff of this god forsaken little town!"
Trouble: "Pessimism, realism, what's the difference?"

Basically the town sheriff, responsible for the law and protection of the place, but has seen "too many things" in his life, that he;s somewhat depressed, and always expecting the worst. thinking of giving him an aspect about his shot gun "cranky old Bertha" and.. possibly an aspect connecting him to someone else. not sure.
top skills will be: shoot, investigate and ?

The extreme doctor
2) High concept: "Doctor, Butcher, I'm the man with the knife"
Trouble: "A tidy living leads to a tidy mind"
A quirky but very flavor able character. Functioning as both doctor and butcher of this town, (in the same working space) a very practical and slightly gruesome character, but oddly enough- obssesed with order, cleanliness and having things organized. not yet sure of the other aspects. but something that gives him an aversion of the super/ unnatural I think. perhaps a connection to one of the more rejected characters. I might give him a stunt called "Doctor" that works like psychologist only for physical consequences.
Top skills: Lore, ?, ?

the performer/ harlot

3) High concept: "Madame of the pleasure and delight"
Trouble: ? possibly some incurable disease?
A self taught highly educated lady, very well groomed, stylish. She runs a small theater, possibly a tiny gamlbing place and the like, but she also works as the town's... "pleasure companion". Not sure what her trouble will be. I want her to be a highly social character, but also to have a tough streak in her. I want to make her very direct, very upfront, cutting to the heart of the matter. I heard of a mechanic of same game called "The Ugly Truth", which I think can make a great name for an aspect.
Top skills: rapport, contacts, empathy

The crazy odd ball
4) High concept: "sight beyond sight, worlds beyond worlds!"
Trouble: "The strange weird man from the outskirts of town"
This guy was lived in the town, had a family, and lived a regular life. he then left with them on some journey, but came back alone, traumetized. Some say he is mad, some say he is fine, but he seem to see things- some real, some not.
the character is for a very inventive player I think, the high concept enables a lot of compels, and lot of declarations. It also means dealing with being a reject to the town (the weid guy everyone stays away from). I'd highly like to link him somehow with other characters.
Top skills: Notice, stealth (to skulk around unseen), perhaps burglary? (small time thief. not sure how useful this skills is in this game)

The rich businessman
5) High Concept: "Money making any way I can!"
Trouble: "For the best things in life!"
An ex caravan train manager, now a business man with hands in almost everything- general equipment, guns and ammo, cattle, machinery, and even more dubious stuff like drugs, alcohol and more. The man however is not well liked, as he is scrupulous, a bit arrogant, and tends to spend way too much to the comforts of a post apocalyptic world. he is drawn to fine things, luxurious things, and is willing to go to quite a lot of lengths for them.
not sure about ideas for aspects yet, but a stunt he'll have is "money talks".
top skills: resources, drive/ pilot, deceive.

The mutant

6) High concept: "Strong mutant, only mutant in normies town."
Trouble: "They fear me"
wanted to make something a bit more exotic. a character similar to the intelligent mutants from Fallout, but without the story (except some sort of radiation). I intend for it to be a sort of a gentle giant that knows how to fight. Also knows how to build and fix things, having found a useful job to keep him in town. (/give the character more versatility) but not fully fitting in?
I'm thinking to have some sort of stunt or aspect dealing with radiation, and perhaps some stunt enabling to use physique instead of provoke to intimidate people. other than that i'm a bit lost.
Top skills: physique, fighting, craft or athletics.


your thoughts?

Kol Korran
2013-04-30, 11:49 AM
Small update (to anyone who reads this): There might be a fifth player joining. Anyway, I plan to add two more characters, bringing the total to 8 characters to choose from. Those who don't get picked will be made into NPCs that might get persuaded/ used by the characters to help in the situation.

The preacher in the godless town
High Concept: "Bringing faith to a faithless town."
Trouble: "The weight of past sins."
I wanted an alternate social character (to the Madame) Possibly with some fighting skills (Inspiration from the shepard from Fire Fly). I imagine him once to have been a rough bandit, till he has "Seen the light". He seeks to bring a practical sort of wisdom and faith to his people, a message of hope through hard work and dedication. He is not naive or a zealot though, and knows well the people he face- he has been one, perhaps he still is. I imagine he can have very interesting interactions with the other PCs. Not sure of his other aspects or stunts, but I'd love to enable him to do something either uplifting (perhaps giving others the use of his will or such?) or even slightly supernatural (like a minor miracle).
Top skills: rapport, will, fight (from his past).

The biker girl
(Silverkiss, if you happen to read this, it's a sort of a merge between Olam and Laras, with a bit of other inspiration)
High concept: "Biker girl mercenary for hire"
Trouble: "Looking out for number one!"
I'm seeking to make a mobile fighting character, to have an extra in case people don't want the sheriff. Also this is a bit of a more easy character to play, simple and direct. Inspiration comes from Harley Quinn from the bat man series. Having lost her parents at an early age to bandits, her older brothers taught her after their own fashion. she learned to be a good mechanic (crafts skill), and a sort of a tom boy. after losing her brother who tried to be a hero and save some people, she decided to take care of her first and foremost, which sometimes distance her from others. living in the town's junkyard with her remaining brothers, she is the mechanic (she does the fine stuff, while the mutant deals with more heavy stuff). her bike (need to look at designs) is her pride and joy. I'm thinking of having one of her aspects present her "Shiny cool harley!" which she can use for stunt, but also weary of endangering. Another idea is that despite her general self reliance, she has one quite unhealthy relationship with one of the male character (like the batman character and the joker). It might replace the Trouble aspect, but i'm weary of that since There is no guarantee that character will be picked. I need to figure something out.
Top skills: drive, shoot, crafts.

thoughts?

Kol Korran
2013-05-02, 11:14 AM
I've been working on the main PCs a bit more, but i'll write about that later. A player suggested I'll write 4 aspects for each, with the 4th aspect's story vague enough to attach to any of the chosen PCs. Also do a bit of collaborative work through emails: Each person gives his character a fifth aspect, connected to another chosen character aspect (the last step of the Trio). This gives the new players a bit of sense of how character aspects are made, collaborative work, and quite as important- their own little touch and attachment to the character.

As to the game: I'm thinking to make it a little town (about 250 adult inhabitants), who are on the whole fairly regular hard working ekking an existence of the wilderness. The PCs (not yet actually a party in the D&D sense) gets called to some sort of a town meeting. this scene is to enable them to use their social skills and basic aspects before the fun get starts. it should be some social contest (perhaps even between PCs). It also lets them get into their characters skin a bit, get the feel of the game a bit.

near getting a conclusion, the town is alarmed that it's being attacked. perhaps with a more focal point (near the water tower, the junk yard and so on. I intend to give the town a few simple locations, potentially with simple zones and aspects each). As the PC rush to investigate/ help (or not) they meet the attackers- Extra quick, very pale barbaric looking marauders. They attack the town people but actually bite pieces off them, starting to eat them between attacks. the PCs may fight them, route them, try to protect the children, all kind of stuff. the aim for this is to feel horrific, a bit overwhelmed. A sort of a running scene. But at some point the attackers retreat, though not seeming defeated, perhaps with yelling stuff like "been tasty, see you tomorrow night!"

My thought for the attackers is that it's a band that calls itself the Vampirs or some misunderstood minomer. They are ravaneous victims of radiation or some other disaster, that made them extremely vulnerable to day light (Hence coming only at night) and makes their brains deteriorate unless they consume a fair deals of raw meat every once in awhile. it also made their bodies stronger and faster (some have better athletics or fight skills? perhaps even physique? not sure how to model this). They may have a stunt of getting improved after a decent meal (which is an action that takes 1-2 turns?) most resemble animals more than humans now, but they have more intelligent leaders, and some can use vehicles, guns and surprisingly smart tactics.

they are based currently in a near by decimated town, which the party might travel to (or not) in their investigation to learn more or even try and defeat them). The party might also investigae/lore/ notice other stuff about them to learn aspects that might help them. I need to fleh them out. (or they might just decide to run?)

The idea is that the daylight is used to recuperate/ investigate/ barricade/ Discussing and finding a solution (which can be many things), while at night they are attacked, but with a different tactic, perhaps bringing new surprises to arm (The wasteland is scarce with resources, You use your top guns only when it's needed). Need to think of ideas. Currently thinking of a quick ride motorcycle hit gang that goes after the leaders, and possibly some small steam punk mecha construction/ roughly armored vehicle and such.

I want the PCs to be able to use the town- it's people (including characters that aren't chosen as NPC support), maybe some small factions (like a ruling family which is widespread, or lowly squatters), And of course it's buildings and aspects.

I'll try to see if I can show the work on the PCs later, but any thoughts so far?

Kol Korran
2013-05-03, 08:44 AM
No one has any thoughts? :smallfrown: Do you need any informtion I'm not supplying?