Strength 18 and twohanded fighters

[Xerxus]

Given a sufficient point buy and the set concept of twohanded fighting, to what lengths would you go to have strength 18 as a fighter twohanding it? How many other attributes would you sacrifice while still attempting to have a reasonable roleplaying concept, given that the campaign is at least tough for a basic party.

[BWR]

How many points to buy with?
Because you are going to want a solid Constitution score as well. Unless you don't mind being a glass cannon.
What is the concept of the character, other than "2H 18 Str"? If you don't mind having crappy stats and just playing off a guy who's not terribly bright, not the most observant and awkward in social settings, you can dump the mental stats and focus on the physical.
I'm afraid your question is a bit too vague to give more than vague answers.

[Seharvepernfan]

Well, you don't need your mental stats. I just would never put less than 12 in con on any sort of melee bruiser. Dex is up to you - it helps, but again it's not strictly necessary.

I never see anybody use less than 25 point buy, so you should be packing something like Str 18, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 8, at least.

[Vizzerdrix]

Personally, even on my beatsticks I like to have decent mental scores. cha can go. I have no use for it, but wis is for controlling shapesand and int is for skills. Dex can be worked around, but con should be high (preferably starting higher than Str).

[Xerxus]

I'm being a bit vague yes. I mean over a range of point buys, from very low to medium in both PF and 3.5, how prepared would you be to sacrifice your strength stat in order to accomodate a character concept based on being a martial character twohanding a greatsword given that the campaign isn't tailormade to suit your character ie it won't go easy on you if you gimp yourself?

Would you be prepared to drop your strength to 14 to get your int up to 16 for a really smart soldier? Or would you just put your int at 12 and pump your strength higher?

It's a roleplaying versus competence question directed to any taker, I'm just wondering what the forum thinks. Remember that this is a game and since the rest of the party likely includesa wizard and a cleric, it's mostly a question of staying relevant. Assume that the constitution stays at maybe 14 so there is some chance of survival.

[Vizzerdrix]

Ah. Then I wouldn't have any problems dropping the 18 to a 16, and using those extra points to further bump Con instead. Str is easy to buff with spells and gear, and shouldn't be your sole form of damage enhancement anyways. If it is, then you are not going to be more than a speed bump in the mid to late levels.

[BWR]

In general, playing to the strengths of the class is necessary. Sure, a very intelligent fighter who is allowed to use that intelligence in practical situations is a dangerous foe (ask Roy), but in most campaigns it will end up being a useless stat compared to Strength.
If other people on the party can fill the role of brains (like a wizard), there really is no mechanical reason for you to sacrifice your Strength in favor of Intelligence. Fighters are already pretty weak mechanically, and will soon be overshadowed by the casters. I would not put Strength 12 in order to get Int 16, but I would choose Str 16/Con 12 over the reverse.

[eggynack]

I don't really understand why a guy with 16 int and 14 strength would become a fighter in the first place. There's some room out there for the smart fighter archetype, but I would never put more points into a fluff stat than a main stat, particularly because it runs counter to the fluff of the class in the first place. I might try to avoid dumping int to fit a character concept, but unless I'm doing an AoO trip build, and can't find a way to bypass the 13 int requirement on improved trip ( which is pretty easy to do) I'm probably not putting anything more than a 10 or 12 into int, and probably nothing above 10 in a low point buy game. If I want to play a smart fighter, I'll find some mechanical way to actually use that intelligence. Otherwise, the stat is just kinda sitting there like a lump.

[Xerxus]

Now, for a more detailed question, would you drop cha from 10 to 7 to get strength from 17 to 18 in pathfinder? If your concept is grim tough soldier? If your concept is strapping young clever lad?

Expanding on the strapping young clever lad, let's say that concept demands that all your mental stats be 12, but this would force your physical stats down to str14 dex10 con14. In a party with an int 18 wizard and a wis 18 cleric, how much will you actually be able to contribute? Is there any reason to keep that fighter around, and if yes then until which level?

[BWR]

If you are supposed to be at least somewhat likable, I probably wouldn't drop from 10 to 7 Cha for Strength 18. If all you care about is maxing combat effectiveness, then I would.

If your fighter wants to use Combat Expertise and the feats that build on it, then Int 13 is a good choice and worth sacrificing some Str.
But since you have already stated that this is a 2H guy, and I assume Power Attack++ based, then it's not worth it.

[Xerxus]

Assuming that all mental stats are fluff and power attack is the base.

[Matticussama]

(Note: I'm not very familiar with Pathfinder, so I'm mainly going to comment from 3.5 experience)

The big issue for me is whether we are discussing a fighter character, or a Fighter. If you want to play an intelligent fighter character, choose a class that can get more benefit from high Int than just skillpoints. Warblade is probably the best fighter class that I can think of which benefits from high Int, since it gets several class features that use Int.

If you want to play a high Int Fighter, then the character should be smart enough to multi-class seek out new forms of training after picking up prereq bonus feats learning the basics of their chosen combat style.

[Tengu_temp]

18 in a stat is too expensive in point buy, unless you're going with some ridiculously high number of points. I prefer to start with 16 in whatever my main stat is, and spend the extra points somewhere else.

There are some decent combat feats that require 13 intelligence, so 13-14 int often works for a fighter. Buying more than that is just a waste, though. And playing a fighter whose intelligence is higher than strength is not good roleplaying. There are other classes that represent a cunning warrior using his brains as his primary weapon, like the Factotum.

[gooddragon1]

STR and CON are priorities. The rest is meh but I prefer not to have a penalty in any stat so I try for 10's the rest of the way.

Personally:

Warblade 1.Punishing Stance.Sapphire Nightmare Blade

2h a greatsword with 18 STR
2d6+6+1d6+1d6 (maybe)
=5d6 roughly

Fireball
Physical [Slashing]
Level: Warblade 1
Components: S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Melee
Target: One creature or object
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

A fireball spell is an attack that deals 5d6 points of slashing damage to one creature or object. Unattended objects also take this damage. You must make an attack roll to deal this damage. You must also succeed on a concentration check greater than your targets AC.

Focus Component

Medium sized greatsword.

[Xerxus]

Ignoring all kinds of mechanical advantages while fighting, just putting in those mental stats for the sake of roleplaying. And yes, we are talking about the class fighter, warblade is good with intelligence but the point is putting in points in your mental stats in order to back up your concept - smart soldier etc.

[Scow2]

I work backward from my stats, saving the strongest for last, then tweaking.

10 in all mental stats other than CHA to start, which is bumped down to 8. Might bump WIS up to 12 so my power-attacking remains pointed at the enemies, not my party (Unless I can get a permanent Protection From Evil item)

CON never drops below 14.

Dex can either be 10 or 12.

Rest goes into strength, up to 16. I try to keep STR and CON within 3 points of each other before magic item bonuses.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

A few others have already said something similar, but I wouldn't play a smart great sword fighter with a 14 str. Simply put; it isn't an intelligent choice. If you're intelligent you won't become a greatsword warrior with only a 14 strength. If you couldn't access another class due to a lack of training facilities or a mentor, you'd go with a utility weapon like a guisarme or halberd.

That said, I don't make two handed beatsticks with personalities that require decent mental stats in under 32 point buy. My default set up for a two handed beatstick is 18 Str, 14 Con with a mix of 8's, 10's and 12's that fits my character concept.

[Curmudgeon]

I almost always go for efficient use of point buy, meaning 14 is the maximum before racial modifiers. So I might then pick Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#waterOrcs) as my race, and get 18 STR that way.

[Chained Birds]

I'm terrified of Ability Penalties, Damage, and Drain, so I almost never leave a score less than 10. Only if a race would reduce my point-buy 10 to an 8, would I mildly be okay with it.

Concerning the PA 18 STR Fighter, he can be fine with a 16 STR.

[Xerxus]

I'm terrified of Ability Penalties, Damage, and Drain, so I almost never leave a score less than 10. Only if a race would reduce my point-buy 10 to an 8, would I mildly be okay with it.

Concerning the PA 18 STR Fighter, he can be fine with a 16 STR.

The difference between 16 and 18 is a weapon focus and specialization, it's not a small difference.

[Curmudgeon]

Concerning the PA 18 STR Fighter, he can be fine with a 16 STR.
That's not a very efficient score, though. A +3 STR bonus, multiplied by 1½, rounds down to +4 damage. A +4 STR bonus, multiplied by 1½, gives +6 damage. So that extra +1 STR modifier yields both +1 to attack and also 2 more damage on every THF hit.

[Slipperychicken]

If I'm playing the Fighter class, barring ability requirements for feats?

Dump Int and Cha to 5 (any lower and I'm worried about ability damage)

Dump Wis to 10, maybe 8 if I can afford bonuses. I need to keep my Will save

Dex to 12, maybe 8 if I'm going for Fullplate.

Con (or whatever stat I'm using for hp) never goes below 14 on a melee character. Any lower than 14 and you're getting KO'd every fight or two.

[Flickerdart]

The difference between 16 and 18 is a weapon focus and specialization, it's not a small difference.
No, WF and WS are just extremely rubbish feats.

There are better classes out there for the warrior with brains. Not every fighter has to be a Fighter.

[Shining Wrath]

As a rule of thumb, for a front-line meleer, I'd put 1/3 of the point buy into STR, 1/3 into CON, and then figure out what to do with the rest depending on the details of the class (Warblade, Swordsage, Fighter).

[Seharvepernfan]

Ignoring all kinds of mechanical advantages while fighting, just putting in those mental stats for the sake of roleplaying.

No, unless I intend to use those stats in some way. I tend to roleplay my stats, not assign stats to fit my roleplay. For instance, I like playing rangers with plenty of skills, so I put a 14 in Int, and therefore I roleplay a smart ranger. I would never put a 14 in Int on somebody who didn't need it, just to play a "smart" guy, though of course anybody can benefit from higher Int (for skills, at least).

If I was playing a two-hander fighter with 25 point buy, my stats would be:
Str 17, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 8.

So there, I'd put a little in dex and int over that last point of strength, but even that was a mechanical choice - that last point of strength wasn't important enough for me to lose AC/init and skill points over.