Laser Rifles

[virgileso]

Looking at the DMG, specifically the part with the laser pistol/rifle. What is the damage type for this weapon? The text says to refer to the weapon description, which is annoyingly silent on answering. Is it energy damage (what kind?), or is it weapon damage without type (suffering all DR all the time)?

While we're at it, what kind of costs should I associate with the rifle? I'm thinking 600gp for the rifle, 50gp per energy cell, & 10gp for a recharge.

[DeltaEmil]

They have no damage type.

[Raimun]

Damage type isn't listed? I would think it's closest to Fire damage, if you think about it. A hit by a laser burns.


They have no damage type.

Hmm, that would the case by RAW.

[Curmudgeon]

And because they have no damage type, they never bypass damage reduction.

[Raimun]

And because they have no damage type, they never bypass damage reduction.

Unless you Aligned the laser rifle. :smallamused:

[Rhynn]

If the DMG doesn't say (and the errata doesn't seem to), I doubt you'll find a "real" answer. If no damage type is given, there is no damage type.

Classing the damage as fire/heat seems most reasonable, since lasers burn, but that may interact oddly with some types of fire resistance - since fire resistance assumes actual fire, not exceedingly concentrated heat that actually "cuts." Maybe let lasers ignore (non-magical?) fire resistance but not fire immunity?

For DR/slashing or bludgeoning or piercing, I'd definitely let it bypass them, since it's none of the types excluded from bypassing the DR.

[Raimun]

For DR/slashing or bludgeoning or piercing, I'd definitely let it bypass them, since it's none of the types excluded from bypassing the DR.

However, you need the one correct and exact damage type to cut through DR. Laser has no damage type, so on its own, it won't cut through anything.

Edit: Unless you argued the " - " at the damage type means it can cut through DR/-. :smalltongue:

[Rhynn]

However, you need the one correct and exact damage type to cut through DR. Laser has no damage type, so on its own, it won't cut through anything.

Well, since we're probably talking about someone's actual game here, I think RAW arguments are worthless, and "what makes sense and makes for good play" is much more important.

The logic being thus: skeletons have DR x/bludgeoning because they're not hurt by piercing and slashing weapons. Ergo, a weapon that is none of those three shouldn't be subject to the DR. (Although now that I think about it, how the heck would you hurt a skeleton with a laser anyway? Get lucky and cut through a bone? Okay, lasers are piercing/cutting.)

[virgileso]

Indeed, this is intended for use in-game, specifically for a mounted archer fighter. As it's not going to have Strength synergy like the Composite Longbow, nor the benefit of enchanted ammunition, I'm trying to find the right balance point for the weapon; including cost.

[Deadline]

For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain that D20 Future lists the damage type on them as fire.

[DeltaEmil]

For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain that D20 Future lists the damage type on them as fire.Which is worse, because fire resistance is quite ubiquitous in standard D&D as well as D20 Modern.
The best way to handle this is to say that the lasergun deals force damage, if you don't accept the untyped damage type. That would make it feel enough scifi, and only few stuff really blocks force attacks, like the shield spell.

Another way is to make up a new damage type, I'd guess..

[Ashtagon]

I'd make lasers damage type Fire & Piercing. So the defender has to have DR against both of these to defend against it effectively.

Except that has all sorts of awkward interactions, because vanilla 3.x treats physical and energy damage types very differently.

[GoatBoy]

Considering they're in the optional rules section of the book, I'd say their damage type is "Whatever the DM lets you get away with, and feel lucky you're getting that."

I don't think we're supposed to think about it too hard.

[BWR]

Dragonstar has them as fire, and I'm sure I've seen other d20 SF settings with them as fire, though I can't recall off hand which. It's what I would rule in this case, simply because the effect is extreme temperature increase in the target. I can't imagine why it would be piercing.

[Slipperychicken]

I'd rule it's untyped energy damage, treated as a spell-like ability for the purposes of bypassing DR. Basically give it the treatment which a Warlock's Laser Eldritch Blast receives. I feel like SR and similar abilities should apply, but I'm not sure how to determine the laser's CL.

[Raimun]

It actually makes sense lasers wouldn't be that effective against supernatural creatures and their DR.

Weapons are made to overcome the enemies their normal wielders are expected to fight. Now, is a Stormtrooper expected to fight animated skeletons? :smallamused:

[Ashtagon]

... I can't imagine why it would be piercing.

Possibly on account of the trope that has them literally burning neat holes in anything from living creatures to armoured hull plating.

Piercing is more troperific than realistic, but games often tend to run on tropes.


Weapons are made to overcome the enemies their normal wielders are expected to fight. Now, is a Stormtrooper expected to fight animated skeletons? :smallamused:


http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/6/13/37911_md-Black%20Templars,%20Necrons,%20Space%20Marines,%20 Terminator%20Armor.JPG

Yes?

[Raimun]

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/6/13/37911_md-Black%20Templars,%20Necrons,%20Space%20Marines,%20 Terminator%20Armor.JPG

Yes?

That's a terminator and he's totally not using a laser rifle against that necron... which is very wise of him.

I was thinking of these guys (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper). :smallwink:

[virgileso]

I'm liking the untyped weapon damage (that penetrates DR/-) and the nonmagical force damage as options.

[Ashtagon]

That's a terminator and he's totally not using a laser rifle against that necron... which is very wise of him.

I was thinking of these guys (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper). :smallwink:

Stormtroopers don't use lasers either. They use blasters (which are specifically noted as being particle beam weapons, not lasers).

[Raimun]

Stormtroopers don't use lasers either. They use blasters (which are specifically noted as being particle beam weapons, not lasers).

They're lasery enough. Yet, I was kind of hoping no one would notice this.

[Slipperychicken]

Weapons are made to overcome the enemies their normal wielders are expected to fight. Now, is a Stormtrooper expected to fight animated skeletons? :smallamused:

http://spencer1984.com/image/m135a.jpg

[Raimun]

http://spencer1984.com/image/m135a.jpg

That's a combat droid, not a skeleton. While thin, that droid has a lot more surface area you can hit with a blade or a spear, if you compare it with a skeleton. For example, the torso isn't full of "holes" like the ribcage of a skeleton.

[Lord Vukodlak]

D20 modern lists lasers as dealing fire type damage.

[Slipperychicken]

That's a combat droid, not a skeleton. While thin, that droid has a lot more surface area you can hit with a blade or a spear, if you compare it with a skeleton. For example, the torso isn't full of "holes" like the ribcage of a skeleton.

In terms of intelligence (only acts when given orders), shape (obvious), and durability (no Con score, squishy as hell), it's close enough to a skeleton.

[CIDE]

Laser Rifle 3d8 20 Fire 80 Feet S, A 50 box 8 lbs 19

From D20 Future. As for damage type Fire is fitting. That is how lasers do their damage realistically; heat. There is nothing else. Is it fair? Not exactly but it's the way the laser works.

Also, converting using the chart for D20 Future the rifle would be $1,500 (not gold) and the power packs just $70.

[virgileso]

That is how lasers do their damage realistically; heat. There is nothing else. Is it fair? Not exactly but it's the way the laser works.Electricity does damage via heat, but it's treated differently from fire damage. The entire function of acid is more in line with rusting and disintegration, and its effects are still described as burning. Half of extant attacks that deal cold damage (and earth damage) are just bludgeoning people with ice cubes. So, there most certainly is something else, because realism doesn't factor into this. What matters is balance & internal consistency. Fire is an option, but not the only one, and has been pointed out that the ubiquity of fire resistance/immunity makes it a poor choice.

Here are all of the options that I've seen here and from friends Fire Untyped weapon damage, subject to all DR (except maybe '-' :P) Force Typeless energy damage Positive