So, Xykon remembers Roy?

[Copperdragon]

At least he remembers something. Is this a sign of respect or that the Lich takes him at least a bit serious?

Roy has tussled directly with Xykon twice by now and they, at their last meeting, had a long talk where Xykon recognized Roy as some sort of necessitiy for himself, as the Hero that makes the Villain to actually be the villain.
When he killed Roy, this is confirmed by The Giant, he did it with a certain respect.

So, how much is Xykon going to remember?

I also think there's some sort of Teamup coming. The Order has no other choice. If they now fight Team Evil, then Tarquin will grab the gate (even if they win). The smart thing would be to team up with the evil they know to the stop the evil they do not know, especially if the evil they do not know has already stombed your own team twice and made sure you have no chance. Is Roy going to turn Xykon as weapon against Tarquin?

[TRH]

Of course he remembers Roy. He's that guy. You know, the one who kept getting pissed off about, um, something:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0430.html

[Finagle]

I don't think Xykon pays enough attention to know Roy by name yet...but he definitely remembers this guy, whoever he is. The one who jacked up his ride last time.

Xykon enjoys being opposed by heroes because they are interesting and give him something to do. He can never rest, he's awake 24/7 and he has to fill those hours with something. Besides, whenever he fights a hero, he always wins.

[Admiral]

It seems pretty likely to me that this Xykon is an illusion: perhaps a shadow or a phantasm (such that it can deal real damage to the party and even kill them unless they disbelieve). This is what the runes along the wall were for: they read the thoughts of the party and presented them with their greatest fear.

Girard was an epic illusionist, and this is exactly what we'd expect for his final defense of his gate.

[Scowling Dragon]

We will see if its an illusion or not depending on the next panel. If Redcloak lacks his Eyepatch then we know whats coming.

[137beth]

Given that he remembered Roy last time, why wouldn't he this time?

[The_Tentacle]

I think it seems pretty likely that these guys are illusion, but we can't know for sure. I think that if Redcloak does have an eye-patch, then they're real. The Cloister prevents them from being scryed upon (unless Girard's epic spells can pierce the Cloister) so illusions of Xykon and Redcloak will appear as the Order knows them. Another indicator will be Redcloak's holy symbol; the new one is a different shape than Xykon's phylactery.

[Gift Jeraff]

Of course. He's the guy who won him a prize on World's Funniest Protagonist Deaths.

[Roland Itiative]

Of course Xykon remembers Bluepommel. He just doesn't pay enough attention to remember his name is Yellowedge. Redguard* will just have to deal with it.

*TES reference unplanned.

[Olinser]

Of course Xykon remembers Bluepommel. He just doesn't pay enough attention to remember his name is Yellowedge. Redguard* will just have to deal with it.

*TES reference unplanned.

I'm guessing he's going to go with Craterhilt this time.

[Sunken Valley]

Xykon would also remember the buddy roy song. Which he sings part of in the strip after it is sung.

[JSSheridan]

Looks like Roy has found replacement casters for his party.

:smalltongue:

Edit: Actually even if Xykon doesn't remember who they are, Redcloak will recognize them. He did all the way back in Comic 426 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0426.html).

[durron597]

We will see if its an illusion or not depending on the next panel. If Redcloak lacks his Eyepatch then we know whats coming.

Does Roy know about Redcloak's eyepatch? O-chul definitely had a meeting with the Order... http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html

[Gift Jeraff]

But they don't know about Xykon and Redcloak's personal drama. Even if O-Chul did tell them about the eye, they would've assumed he could easily Regenerate it. Unless the Resistance told Hinjo who told the OOTS for some reason.

[factotum]

Does Roy know about Redcloak's eyepatch? O-chul definitely had a meeting with the Order... http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html

O-Chul would not expect a high level cleric like Redcloak to *not* have cast Regenerate to restore his eye, and he certainly wasn't present when Xykon ordered him not to--so he wouldn't have said anything about an eyepatch.

[gallagher]

Its not that he recognizes Roy

He recognizes Elan, because he looks like Nale, who worked with Team Evil.

If only because that would piss off Roy even more

[SaintRidley]

Xykon would also remember the buddy roy song. Which he sings part of in the strip after it is sung.


Not exactly. He riffs on it - "Oh Guy I killed...." At no point does he use Roy's name.

[Morty]

Someone has already pointed out that the Order is lucky V's not with them. Xykon remembers Roy as that annoying guy with a sword who keeps getting mad at him for some reason... but I think he remembers V much better and in much worse context.

[137beth]

Someone has already pointed out that the Order is lucky V's not with them. Xykon remembers Roy as that annoying guy with a sword who keeps getting mad at him for some reason... but I think he remembers V much better and in much worse context.

Why would he remember V?

EDIT: Nope! Nothing in this post at all! Move along!

[hamishspence]

The big fight? Where V and O-Chul escape from him?

[137beth]

The big fight? Where V and O-Chul escape from him?

....I totally did not forget about that, and I totally was not thinking about how V didn't do anything to Xykon in DCF or WaXP:smallredface:

[SaintRidley]

Why would he remember V?

That elf who seriously tried to challenge his reputation and made Xykon actually take the fight seriously enough to use an Epic spell... No, no reason to remember V at all.

[cheesecake]

He always remembers him, but doesn't know his name. He remembers him as oh that guy, or that one who was mad at him for taking something.

He is real.

[Morty]

That elf who seriously tried to challenge his reputation and made Xykon actually take the fight seriously enough to use an Epic spell... No, no reason to remember V at all.

More importantly, the elf who was suddenly whisked away when Xykon was about to turn him into a smoking crater.

[137beth]

More importantly, the elf who was suddenly whisked away when Xykon was about to turn him into a smoking crater.

And who he assumed was dead (he asked who stole his kills, not who saved them).

[SaintRidley]

And who he assumed was dead (he asked who stole his kills, not who saved them).

Well, kill stealing doesn't necessarily imply killing them. When Xykon next sees V, he'll be pissed beyond belief.

[137beth]

Well, kill stealing doesn't necessarily imply killing them. When Xykon next sees V, he'll be pissed beyond belief.

I assumed it meant "killing someone who I was about to kill," but I suppose it doesn't make any differences.
EDIT: Also, in case you hadn't noticed, everyone on this thread agrees...

[The Pilgrim]

He's an illusion, that's why he can remember Roy.

[AngryHobbit]

It seems pretty likely to me that this Xykon is an illusion: perhaps a shadow or a phantasm (such that it can deal real damage to the party and even kill them unless they disbelieve). This is what the runes along the wall were for: they read the thoughts of the party and presented them with their greatest fear.

Girard was an epic illusionist, and this is exactly what we'd expect for his final defense of his gate.

I think that runes say "No Secret Message".

[RNGgod]

Wild crazy theory time:


Xykon is not an illusion. He has, however, been trudging through a dungeon full of illusions.
He thinks Roy is an illusion.

Pretty crazy, huh? Well, here's the twist: "Not this guy again" means Xykon has been running into dozens of illusory Roys, and he's tired of it.

[AngryHobbit]

Wild crazy theory time:

Pretty crazy, huh? Well, here's the twist: "Not this guy again" means Xykon has been running into dozens of illusory Roys, and he's tired of it.

:xykon::"Hmm... this one actually bleeds! Interesting..."

[Stormlock]

I think that runes say "No Secret Message".

Yeah, they pretty clearly do, but that doesn't mean they have no magical function.

That said, Halley made a very good point; whatever they were intended to do, they should have done it by now. Which means they are either not going to affect the Order, or they already did. A sort of modified Weird spell (fight your own worst fear) would be pretty fitting for Girard, but also pretty predictable, so I doubt that is it. If it is an illusion, I'd expect it to be something really convoluted that throws them way off track, like some scenario resulting in the gate's apparent destruction. Or maybe an elaborate distraction while the REAL defenses come online. Just because he's an illusionist doesn't mean he barred every other school of magic. Another trap could be summoning real monsters, or preparing to destroy the whole pyramid, or teleport everyone away, or who knows what.

I expect V is the one actually nearing the gate, so whatever the fancy door and these runes are guarding, it wouldn't be that. Which would make it REALLY weird for Xykon to be in there. Likelyhood it's an illusion of some sort is fairly high, unless less Xykon knows something about the pyramid that I don't.

[Olinser]

Yeah, they pretty clearly do, but that doesn't mean they have no magical function.

That said, Halley made a very good point; whatever they were intended to do, they should have done it by now. Which means they are either not going to affect the Order, or they already did. A sort of modified Weird spell (fight your own worst fear) would be pretty fitting for Girard, but also pretty predictable, so I doubt that is it. If it is an illusion, I'd expect it to be something really convoluted that throws them way off track, like some scenario resulting in the gate's apparent destruction. Or maybe an elaborate distraction while the REAL defenses come online. Just because he's an illusionist doesn't mean he barred every other school of magic. Another trap could be summoning real monsters, or preparing to destroy the whole pyramid, or teleport everyone away, or who knows what.

I expect V is the one actually nearing the gate, so whatever the fancy door and these runes are guarding, it wouldn't be that. Which would make it REALLY weird for Xykon to be in there. Likelyhood it's an illusion of some sort is fairly high, unless less Xykon knows something about the pyramid that I don't.

Me personally, I think the runes are going to zap whoever casts a spell near them first that isn't a Draketooth (or possibly any spell outside the Illusion school).

[Quantum Glass]

Actually, he's mistaking Roy for someone else.

Perhaps the King of Nowhere?

[Chaotic Queen]

Actually, he's mistaking Roy for someone else.

Perhaps the King of Nowhere?

But Roy's not the King of Anywhere!

[TRH]

But Roy's not the King of Anywhere!

He's gotta be the king of Somewhere!

[Xenrei]

He's gotta be the king of Somewhere!

Great. In one fell swoop everyone thinks that he's the king of Someplace Else...

[Chaotic Queen]

Great. In one fell swoop everyone thinks that he's the king of Someplace Else...

Don't be ridiculous. Someplace Else has a democracy!

[rodneyAnonymous]

Given that he remembered Roy last time, why wouldn't he this time?

No, he didn't. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0430.html)

:roy: "Remember me, Xykon?"
:xykon: "No, should I?"

Later, on, Xykon remembers: "Hey--wait a second! I know who you are now!"

This time he remembered without talking to Roy for a while first.

[Starwaster]

Why would he remember V?

EDIT: Nope! Nothing in this post at all! Move along!

Why would he... oh for....

What post?

[davidbofinger]

Wild crazy theory time: Xykon is not an illusion. He has, however, been trudging through a dungeon full of illusions.
He thinks Roy is an illusion. "Not this guy again" means Xykon has been running into dozens of illusory Roys, and he's tired of it.

So he brushes past Roy and doesn't waste a spell. That's a very cool idea. But Roy would attack Xykon, so it may not work.


When Xykon next sees V, he'll be pissed beyond belief.

Probably only because of the phylactery. Up until that point Xykon's memory of V would be "So I was sitting at home, nothing to do, nothing on Teevo, and this elf wizard attacked me. That was all right for a few minutes, passed the time..."

Contrast that with his memory of Roy: "So I was killing paladins, having a great time, and this idiot jumps up, kills my ride and forces me to waste him." Much more annoying. And he doesn't seem that annoyed with Roy.

After that, though, V and O'Chul got his phylactery lost. That's a sideline to the main story from V's point of view, but it's the main story from Xykon's.

[paladinofshojo]

I can only come up with one logical explanation: Xykon, being a long-lived being who probably puts the same effort and moral conviction into killing sentient life as we normal humans do to brushing our teeth, simply killed so many people and lived so long that he just doesn't remember how many people he had killed on an individual basis. I mean from what we know, he's killed his dog, his family, the S-men, and many, many more BEFORE the Comic began, including 5 guys named Fyron in Cliffport. It could be that Xykon is just so desensitized to killing others, that he doesn't need a traditional connection or personal motive for killing, such as revenge, greed, jealousy or whatnot.

Another thing I want to point out is that Xykon only met Roy in two skirmishes during a campaign story which supposedly had lasted for months if not years so it is understandable that he forgets Roy's existence what with his villainy plots and torturing O'chul during his captivity...

[Emanick]

I can only come up with one logical explanation: Xykon, being a long-lived being who probably puts the same effort and moral conviction into killing sentient life as we normal humans do to brushing our teeth, simply killed so many people and lived so long that he just doesn't remember how many people he had killed on an individual basis. I mean from what we know, he's killed his dog, his family, the S-men, and many, many more BEFORE the Comic began, including 5 guys named Fyron in Cliffport. It could be that Xykon is just so desensitized to killing others, that he doesn't need a traditional connection or personal motive for killing, such as revenge, greed, jealousy or whatnot.

Another thing I want to point out is that Xykon only met Roy in two skirmishes during a campaign story which supposedly had lasted for months if not years so it is understandable that he forgets Roy's existence what with his villainy plots and torturing O'chul during his captivity...

I don't know, I still think it's pretty implausible that Xykon doesn't actually remember Roy. He's only ever had his undead body destroyed once - and that was very obviously at the hands of Roy, epic doodad notwithstanding. Also, the days when Gates have been destroyed are arguably among the most important of his entire life/unlife, and Roy has met him on two of these three days.

I mean, I believe that he really doesn't remember ol' Redblade, but it strikes me as a running joke that works only if you fail to take it seriously. Which is fine, of course.

[Copperdragon]

Later, on, Xykon remembers: "Hey--wait a second! I know who you are now!"

He did not, he was mocking Roy then.

What we're seeing now is clearly "progress". But if it is enough progress for a name remains to be seen.
I fear for Roy: We've another gate left. :smallbiggrin:

[Chantelune]

Now that I think about it, Xykon seeming to remember Roy enough to label him "that guy again" is pretty damn suspicious and gives more fuel to the illusion theory. I mean, he didn't remember him after Roy "killed" him, why would he even remember him after he was the one killing him ? :smalltongue:

[Grim Portent]

Illusion: On the one hand Xykon has never been able to remember Roy so him doing so now seems suspect to me.

Not Illusion: On the other hand this might just mean that Roy made an impact on Xykon during their last meeting. (Not dissimilar to the one he made on the ground shortly after they parted.) :smallamused:

Ah the wonder of wondering. I'll just wait and see which it turns out to be, leaning towards illusion myself though.

[Stormlock]

I don't know, I still think it's pretty implausible that Xykon doesn't actually remember Roy. He's only ever had his undead body destroyed once - and that was very obviously at the hands of Roy, epic doodad notwithstanding. Also, the days when Gates have been destroyed are arguably among the most important of his entire life/unlife, and Roy has met him on two of these three days.

I mean, I believe that he really doesn't remember ol' Redblade, but it strikes me as a running joke that works only if you fail to take it seriously. Which is fine, of course.

I dunno, Xykon's memory for fleshbags seems pretty sketchy. I mean, his second in command is 'Redcloak'. He really does not give a ****, and Roy is way less important than Redcloak.

[137beth]

I dunno, Xykon's memory for fleshbags seems pretty sketchy. I mean, his second in command is 'Redcloak'. He really does not give a ****, and Roy is way less important than Redcloak.

AFB, but I seem to recall Redcloak making up the name (as oppose to his previous name, "bearer of the crimson mantle"), because Xykon killed someone for having a long name, so he needed to shorten his own. Again, I'm away from books, so correct me if I remember wrong.

[hamishspence]

Bearer of the Crimson Mantle is more of a title than a name. He had a name, but you are right as to why he didn't use it.

[Psyren]

I'm guessing he's going to go with Craterhilt this time.

...I'm really hoping he does this now :smallbiggrin:

[Olinser]

...I'm really hoping he does this now :smallbiggrin:

Xykon: What's up Craterhilt, you gain 7 or 8 levels yet and ready to entertain me? :smallamused:

Roy: No :smallfrown:

Xykon: Meh, come back when you're ready for a shot at the title, I'm off. :smallcool:

[Anteros]

It would be interesting to see Xykon become more and more aware of Roy as the comic progresses. Watching him go from "who's this guy again?' to "I'll get you Sir Greenhilt! You and your little dog too!" could be amusing.

Of course this Xykon is likely not real as everyone has pointed out so that's out the window.

[Snails]

Of course this Xykon is likely not real as everyone has pointed out so that's out the window.

Likely not real? Hardly.

I do not question the plausibility of an epic illusion here, but there is no direct evidence this is not Xykon, and Xykon suddenly popping up somewhere within the pyramid is to be expected. The fact we are seeing exactly what we expect is non-evidence that what we expect is not.

In fact, I would point out that Roy seemed to expect Xykon to be occupied for a bit more (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html) (even if we recognize this as wishful thinking).

[Olinser]

Likely not real? Hardly.

I do not question the plausibility of an epic illusion here, but there is no direct evidence this is not Xykon, and Xykon suddenly popping up somewhere within the pyramid is to be expected. The fact we are seeing exactly what we expect is non-evidence that what we expect is not.

In fact, I would point out that Roy seemed to expect Xykon to be occupied for a bit more (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html) (even if we recognize this as wishful thinking).

However, if this means what I think it does, the fact that he came that quickly after Niu's message, then Xykon and Redcloak just finished in the Astral Plane and came straight here, bringing up the possibility that the two of them used a fair amount of spells warding/reinforcing his fortress-tomb-thingie.

If the cutaway to Niu's message is accurate time, even if she spent a little time running away from Azure City before using the scroll, then it certainly hasn't been 24 hours since Xykon and Redcloak went to the Astral Plane.

Xykon/Redcloak with half of their spells already gone is significantly less scary than a fully rested pair could be.

[veti]

Xykon is immune to phantasms, so if he's seeing illusory-Roys, that means someone is deliberately casting illusions of Roy. (I.e. it's not an image taken from Xykon's mind, but chosen specifically by the caster.) Who would do that, and why? And if Xykon didn't remember Roy anyway, what would be the point of using his image for an illusion?

At their first encounter, Xykon saw Roy as one of a party across a crowded room. When they got to close quarters, the whole encounter lasted about 3 rounds. (Round 1 - Xykon casts Shatter, Roy spends 1 round accessing his hitherto-unknown Lunatic Berserker feat. Round 2: they both stand around for dramatic effect. Round 3: Roy grapples Xykon and throws him into the gate. All in a room that's so dark, the MitD doesn't even need a shade or box.)

At their second encounter, they were face to face, far from the distracting crowds, for what looks like a good few minutes, and in broad daylight. They had what may be the longest single conversation we've ever seen Xykon engage in. Roy succeeded in hurting him (with a slashing weapon, no less).

So I think Xykon genuinely remembers him.

[Querzis]

I don't know, I still think it's pretty implausible that Xykon doesn't actually remember Roy. He's only ever had his undead body destroyed once - and that was very obviously at the hands of Roy, epic doodad notwithstanding.

Actually, the way he was destroyed the first time was obviously at the hand of Durokan Epic Spell which had already stalled him for months at that point, Roy throwing him in it notwithstanding. Xykon would remember Durokan for sure but Roy was just incredibly lucky, he has no reason to remember him anymore then the hundreds of less lucky adventurers who didnt have an epic ward spell nearby to throw Xykon into.

[F.Harr]

"So, Xykon remembers Roy?"

Yes. But only when it's FUNNY!

[Stormlock]

Xykon is immune to phantasms, so if he's seeing illusory-Roys, that means someone is deliberately casting illusions of Roy. (I.e. it's not an image taken from Xykon's mind, but chosen specifically by the caster.)

I'm not sure I'd trust Rich to remember/enforce such a subtlety of the rules. You are technically right though.

[Silverionmox]

Of course, we can't rule out that Xykon is perfectly capable of remembering names but doesn't use them correctly because that is just one more way to piss off lawful characters..

[Mantine]

I assumed it meant "killing someone who I was about to kill," but I suppose it doesn't make any differences.
EDIT: Also, in case you hadn't noticed, everyone on this thread agrees...
No, we don't.
"Kill stealing" means that someone took your kill from you, one way or the other. It doesn't necessarly mean that they killed your supposed victim.

[137beth]

No, we don't.
"Kill stealing" means that someone took your kill from you, one way or the other. It doesn't necessarly mean that they killed your supposed victim.

.........
You don't think Xykon would remember V:smallconfused:?
Or do you have some other meaning for "we don't agree"?

(also, as I already said, it doesn't really matter what kill-stealing means, other than that it annoys Xykon.)

[Mantine]

.........
You don't think Xykon would remember V:smallconfused:?
Or do you have some other meaning for "we don't agree"?

No, it was solely about the kill-stealing matter.
Of course he remembers V.

[martianmister]

I mean from what we know, he's killed his dog

When? :smallconfused:

[137beth]

When? :smallconfused:

It was in SoD.

[hamishspence]

I thought Xykon's dog Barky was shown dead, without an actual reason given?

[factotum]

SOD spoilers:


That's quite correct. We see Xykon weeping over the corpse of the dog, but there's absolutely no hint that he is the cause of the beast's demise...seems just as likely that the dog died of natural causes.

[Copperdragon]

The fate of the dog was left open.

Was it an accident? Was it a Xykon-induced accident (his powers)? Was is age? Some illness? Someone else killing it?
We do not know. But his reaction really did not indicate he killed Barky on purpose.

[The Succubus]

I'm guessing he's going to go with Craterhilt this time.

Ladies and gents, I think we have a winner here. :smallbiggrin:

[Emanick]

The fate of the dog was left open.

Was it an accident? Was it a Xykon-induced accident (his powers)? Was is age? Some illness? Someone else killing it?
We do not know. But his reaction really did not indicate he killed Barky on purpose.

I know this is sort of off-topic, but I cherish a mad hope that Zombie Barky is still around and that, a few panels after Xykon dies for good, the dog appears and starts chewing on his bones... :smallbiggrin:

[martianmister]

He also calls him "Roy". They are really close, aren't they? Sadly, that was an illusion.

[theinsulabot]

in the words of tarquin's mask



NOPE!