[PF] Cleric with no idea what hes doing

[king.com]

So I'm playing Pathfinder for the first time (pretty much first time for D&D in general) and from what I understand it I made a terrible character and was looking for some help to fix it.

Im Str: 12, Dex: 7, Con:10, Int:13, Wis: 18, Cha:14, my HP 14(17 with toughness) at level 3.

The party consists of a fighter, paladin, ranger, wizard. Often not everyone makes it to the session. I seem to end up bleeding on the flood or pretty badly damaged and im not sure what I should be doing, what feats to take or what spells to use.

My feats current are: Combat Casting, Toughness, Improve Intiative (which I've been told is not exactly good, apparently toughness is a trap feat?).

I've been using things like Hold Person, Doom, Bless, Magic Weapon as my spells.

I dont seem to do much damage (was advised to use Bulls Strength to fix this) or live very long. Any idea what I should be doing?

EDIT: Also we're only using the core book.

EDIT2: Since a multiple people asked I'm using Travel and Liberation Domain.

[Malroth]

depends on your class. thats a pretty respectable stat spread for a druid or cleric especially since you could concentrate on disabling enemies with entangles and leave the dealing of damage to a big fuzzy pet of deah.

[king.com]

depends on your class. thats a pretty respectable stat spread for a druid or cleric especially since you could concentrate on disabling enemies with entangles and leave the dealing of damage to a big fuzzy pet of deah.

I'm playing a cleric.

[avr]

With those stats (all 3 mental stats higher than any of your 3 physical stats) you should be assisting others via spells or otherwise rather than fighting yourself, if at all possible. That's tricky in a small group, but your group does seem to be melee-heavy. It may be that the main problem is with your groups tactics rather than your character's abilities.

On the spells, Bless is iffy when you don't have all 3 of the fighting types present. Summon Monster I to add someone else to the front line (or Sanctuary to remove yourself from the front line) might be more useful if one or more of those is away. Doom just isn't a good idea most of the time; Command (or Murderous Command) is a better replacement.

Bulls Strength on one of the fighting types, not yourself is a fine idea.

[navar100]

Toughness is not a trap feat. It's not must have, but it's also not never have. It's worth taking if you're going to use your favored class bonus for hit points. Together, that's a virtual +4 CO for hit points. If you're using your favored class bonus for something else, Toughness is still ok but you've already decided extra hit points aren't important to you for that character unless you took Toughness as compensation for using your favored class bonus for something else. With a CO 10, you should use favored class bonus for hit points and Toughness along with it does make a difference. You "have" a 14 CO.

With your low physical skills, you don't want to be in the thick of combat. You are a spellcasting cleric. Use your spells to buff party members and attack enemies. The occasional healing in battle is not a bad idea. This is where Channeling comes in real handy to heal everyone in the party at a range. You want Selective Channeling Feat. You're not obligated to do only healing, but you shouldn't ignore it either. Keeping another party member conscious one more round so he can get the kill is an effective tactic. There is no commandment that says you must get the kill yourself. Still attack enemies with spells. Get the kill. Great. You just don't need to all the time, and remember bad guys do make their saving throws sometimes.

For buffing, you want to the warrior of your party a juggernaut. He gets the Bull's Strength, not you. He gets the Shield of Faith or Protection From Evil before you cast on yourself. For your own defense that's what Obscuring Mist and Sanctuary are for, but if you need a Protection From Evil on yourself sometimes that's ok.

Hold Person is a fine attack spell. Command is also useful. Bad guy grappling a party member? Command him to "drop". However, pick your targets. Since they're will saves, use them against opponents you believe have low will saves. As the levels progress, look for attack spells that hit the other saves so you can tailor your attacks against the appropriate opponent. However, sometimes you have to take that risk and use a spell against an opponent's good save. Sometimes you need to Command a flying wizard to "fall". It's also worth it to cast Summon Monster.

[MukkTB]

You've got bad constitution but toughness makes up for that. The character build isn't bad overall. I think if you have problems its because of your play style in game. Magic weapon as a spell of choice seems to be the indicator.

You should be using magic to fight from range. You don't have the stats to be a melee guy. More hold person, less magic weapon. See how that does for you.

[king.com]

You've got bad constitution but toughness makes up for that. The character build isn't bad overall. I think if you have problems its because of your play style in game. Magic weapon as a spell of choice seems to be the indicator.

You should be using magic to fight from range. You don't have the stats to be a melee guy. More hold person, less magic weapon. See how that does for you.

I was using the magic weapon (I think I may be confusing the name, its the level 1 spell that gives you a +1 to your weapon) to give a bonus to other players equipment previously but if theres better bang for what I get then I'll use that. I'll try to hang back more but I keep seeming to get stuck in close combat even as I'm standing way at the back with the wizard.



For buffing, you want to the warrior of your party a juggernaut. He gets the Bull's Strength, not you. He gets the Shield of Faith or Protection From Evil before you cast on yourself. For your own defense that's what Obscuring Mist and Sanctuary are for, but if you need a Protection From Evil on yourself sometimes that's ok.

Hold Person is a fine attack spell. Command is also useful. Bad guy grappling a party member? Command him to "drop". However, pick your targets. Since they're will saves, use them against opponents you believe have low will saves. As the levels progress, look for attack spells that hit the other saves so you can tailor your attacks against the appropriate opponent. However, sometimes you have to take that risk and use a spell against an opponent's good save. Sometimes you need to Command a flying wizard to "fall". It's also worth it to cast Summon Monster.

Firstly, what does CO stand for?

I've not been rushing into melee I've been hanging back with each fight being jumped from behind and surrounded (god I hate ghouls). I'll make better use of my spells though. How do I know what a monsters save is though, do I just have to throw a spell on it and guess based on the DC vs whether it saves or not?

Definitely some good advice, thankyou.

[Eldaran]

I don't understand how your HP is so low. With toughness + favored class (and first die being maxed) you should have 2d8 +14, even if you rolled two ones you should have more hp. Did you not add favored class?

Also since it looked like you used point buy I'd ask your DM if he'd let you switch the 12 strength to con.

[king.com]

I don't understand how your HP is so low. With toughness + favored class (and first die being maxed) you should have 2d8 +14, even if you rolled two ones you should have more hp. Did you not add favored class?

Also since it looked like you used point buy I'd ask your DM if he'd let you switch the 12 strength to con.

OOh whoops, I'm 14 before adding +3 to toughness. Also we did not use point buy, we rolled stats, I was human and put my +2 in wisdom though he did let us assign where stats go.

[Slipperychicken]

I'm guessing your objective and preferred strategy is to hit stuff and deal damage? If so, you can drop Wisdom down to like 15, and just put the ability increases into it as you level up. If you're mostly hitting stuff, you need physical ability scores more than a maxed-out casting stat.

If you want to hit stuff in melee, Strength should be roughly 14-16. You want to two-hand the nastiest weapon you're proficient with so you get that x1.5 Str to damage. I got good results from a Longspear and spiked gauntlets; the reach is wonderful, and you can still punch people who get too close (and you don't provoke for using the gauntlets).

Constitution should be 14 on any character, especially melee. Absolute minimum of 12 for a character who is never expected to see melee, and even then you're squishy. If you're stuck with 12 or less, stay off the front lines at all costs.

Dexterity is nice to have at 12, but that's as high as it needs to go, because your job is to wear the biggest Medium armor you can. Scale Mail at this level, upgrade to a Breastplate later, and then Mithral Fullplate at high levels. You can sometimes get away with dropping Dex to 8, but 7 hurts your AC and Initiative too much, especially at these levels where every point of AC counts. Also, your CMD and Reflex save suck without it.

Favored class bonus goes into hit points every level. You're sitting on a d8, and you need those extra hit points to not die so quickly.

Spells: Command is a good one, use the "Fall" command, so allies gain a bonus to hit against him (+4 because he's prone), he needs to spend an action to stand up, and provokes AoOs for standing up.

Feats: Selective Channeling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/selective-channeling---final) is good, because it means you can use Channel to heal allies without healing your enemies. You want to hurt your enemies, not heal them. With your Constitution so low, PF Toughness isn't so bad for you, but I'd swap it out if my Con score went up. I strongly agree with Improved Initiative, though.

Equipment: Use a masterwork two-handed weapon if possible, spiked gauntlets, and the biggest Medium armor you can get your grubby paws on.

Tactics: Find the list of things which provoke attacks of opportunity, memorize it, and never do them within someone's threatened area. Especially spells, never cast spells when you will provoke for doing so (casting defensively is really hard in PF). If you need to cast a spell, 5-foot out of the threatened area first. Don't rush ahead of the party, try to maneuver into a flank with your allies. Remember things which give you bonuses to hit, like charging (+2), flanking (+2), and higher ground (+1), and have as many of those as you can. Don't get flanked, remember you can take 5-foot steps to avoid provoking AoOs.

[king.com]

I'm guessing your objective and preferred strategy is to hit stuff and deal damage? If so, you can drop Wisdom down to like 15, and just put the ability increases into it as you level up. If you're mostly hitting stuff, you need physical ability scores more than a maxed-out casting stat.

If you want to hit stuff in melee, Strength should be roughly 14-16. You want to two-hand the nastiest weapon you're proficient with so you get that x1.5 Str to damage. I got good results from a Longspear and spiked gauntlets; the reach is wonderful, and you can still punch people who get too close (and you don't provoke for using the gauntlets).

Constitution should be 14 on any character, especially melee. Absolute minimum of 12 for a character who is never expected to see melee, and even then you're squishy. If you're stuck with 12 or less, stay off the front lines at all costs.

Dexterity is nice to have at 12, but that's as high as it needs to go, because your job is to wear the biggest Medium armor you can. Scale Mail at this level, upgrade to a Breastplate later, and then Mithral Fullplate at high levels. You can sometimes get away with dropping Dex to 8, but 7 hurts your AC and Initiative too much, especially at these levels where every point of AC counts. Also, your CMD and Reflex save suck without it.


I just want to not die horribly at this point, I don't really want to go into melee as I'd be massively outclassed by the fighter and paladin and being one upped constantly would make me lose interest in the game. Hence why I tried to be a spellcaster.

What would you suggest I do to change my stats around to get those two values? Additionally I don't really have any gold so I'm not going to be thinking about gear for now.

[Malroth]

Stick to save or suck spells, buffs or summons and use your domain powers at every opportunity.

[Chained Birds]

What Domains do you have. If any of them have a Ranged Touch Attack, or a nice buff, you don't have to get too far into combat.

I'd also say to switch around your Dex and Int scores if you can. Seeing as you are a Human, you'll get some extra skill ranks to balance out the -2 from the horrible 7 score... It will also make you at least harder to hit than the broad side of a barn.

Feat Wise:

Improved Initiative is good.
Toughness is fine as it essentially makes you Con score a 12 instead of a 10.
Combat Casting... Well you probably don't want to be in combat, so changing this to Selective Channeling is a good idea. Though if you can't, this feat is not too horrible... I guess.

Guided Hand (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/-guided-hand) may be up your alley if you are looking to be able to hit things with a weapon. Though the required Channel Smite (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/channel-smite-combat) feat may not be that useful unless you happen to fight many undead.

Spell Wise:

Summon Monster 1: can net you a nice battle buddy.
Bless: a pretty decent buff for everyone.
Murderous Command: helps you out if there are 2 or more enemies surrounding you.
Burning Disarm: if you are frequently attacked by enemies with weapons.

Spiritual Weapon: can be helpful if you need a decent source of damage.

[Gnaeus]

When people say how bad Toughness is, they usually mean 3.5 Toughness. Pathfinder toughness is more like the Improved Toughness feat in 3.5, so is less terrible. Especially at low levels, it isn't too bad. if you ever get a chance to swap out feats later Toughness should be the first one to go.

[navar100]

CO is short for Constitution.

[king.com]

What Domains do you have. If any of them have a Ranged Touch Attack, or a nice buff, you don't have to get too far into combat.


I have Travel and Liberation Domains.

[Slipperychicken]

What would you suggest I do to change my stats around to get those two values? Additionally I don't really have any gold so I'm not going to be thinking about gear for now.

My bad. I thought you had already decided to retcon/rebuild your character's ability scores.


In terms of not dying horribly, staying far out of harm's way, using cover. Alternatively, your Cleric might decide to retire from adventuring after so many close calls, interpreting those near-death experiences as a sign that he shouldn't throw his life away. Once he retires to his monastery/cathedral/congregation of choice, you can then bring in a character with a higher Con score to replace him (perhaps from the same religion, even). I recommend that option if you want to play a holy melee guy instead of a squishy priest.

[king.com]

My bad. I thought you had already decided to retcon/rebuild your character's ability scores.


In terms of not dying horribly, staying far out of harm's way, using cover. Alternatively, your Cleric might decide to retire from adventuring after so many close calls, interpreting those near-death experiences as a sign that he shouldn't throw his life away. Once he retires to his monastery/cathedral/congregation of choice, you can then bring in a character with a higher Con score to replace him (perhaps from the same religion, even). I recommend that option if you want to play a holy melee guy instead of a squishy priest.

I don't want to play a melee character as I dont want to be feeling overshowed by the others. I just don't know how to play a character period was my problem. This is my first D&D game, I don't know what I'm doing.

[JusticeZero]

The way you are describing the combats, and since you aren't exactly giving a lot of detail since that wasn't what you originally asked, you're not doing half bad here. The problem is that your fighters are not able to keep the enemy from running around them to attack the support (you and the Wizard). This is admittedly hard when you're in an open field. What is happening to your fellow support characters that you're hanging out with? My suspicion is that for the moment, you and your fellow artillerists need to look into things like Fly or Sanctuary that remove you from reach, rather than upping your combat prowess.

[Arbane]

As people have already said, your best tactic is to hide behind the fighty-guys, keep them buffed with your spells, and throw save-or-cry spells like Hold Person at the enemy.

Spiritual Weapon's a good one - my group's cleric swears by it and Spiritual Ally.

[Zubrowka74]

I don't want to play a melee character as I dont want to be feeling overshowed by the others. I just don't know how to play a character period was my problem. This is my first D&D game, I don't know what I'm doing.

No worries : in a few levels you and the wizard will be the ones overshadowing the melee guys.

[eggynack]

You can change your stats? In that case, I'd advise assigning them as follows:
Wis: 18, Con: 14, Cha: 13, Dex: 12, Int: 10 and Str: 7. If you don't care about turning, then I'm pretty sure that you can dump charisma in pathfinder, though I don't know offhand. In that case, toss charisma all the way to 7, and bump everything underneath it up by one. If you care more about punching than skills, and there's a high possibility that you do, you can also switch intelligence and strength. I'm not hyper familiar with the PF spell list and its idiosyncrasies, so I'll possibly look into a good spell list later.

Edit: The critical thing here though, is that you bump up con. 10 is really low, and you can boost your current hp by 6 points with the change I listed. It's effectively like taking PF toughness twice over, and doesn't cost you that much.

[Tsriel]

With your stats, you're a straight up support cleric. Your lack of constitution really scares me. It should be one of, if not the highest stat (Wisdom a close second) so you can take a few hits. At level 3, you're not all that exciting, but then again support clerics generally aren't terribly difficult to play.

Your first couple of turns should be spent dropping down buffs. At your level, bless, protection vs (evil, chaos, law, ect), and shield of faith are you main buff spells. Sanctuary is a must have for you. With your high wisdom, this will allow you to waltz around the battlefield casting single target buffs and heals as needed. This spell will fall off in usefulness at higher levels and be replaced by Grace (lvl 2 spell, swift action to cast).

I'm not one to advocate min-maxing, but there is alot of great advice in this guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1h6-_4HvPvV-Tt7I67Gi_oPhgHmeDVA5SBl-WrJSgf5s/edit?hl=en&pli=1). It's definitely worth a look.

[Der_DWSage]

Well, one thing you mentioned was saves. So here's a general guide so far as that goes.

If they're intelligent, using spells, and/or commanding others in battle? They probably have a high will save.

If they're big, tough, and can take a few hits? They probably have a high fort save.

If they're quick, nimble, and especially if they're animals? They're almost guaranteed to have a high reflex save.

These are not exclusive to each other. They can be big AND nimble, which is when you really want to use that Hold Person and screw over their will save.

On to other matters, though...

You definitely want to pick up Sanctuary, and start using that first thing. You won't even be visible to others so long as you focus on buffing and healing...so long as they fail that will save.

So far as other tactics go...frankly, it's up to the meaty types to ensure you stay alive if you're coming under heavy fire. Like it or not, you're their undo button. Also, drop Doom and Magic Weapon, pick up Sanctuary and Cause Fear. A -2 to everything is great. Getting them to run screaming, removing an opponent from combat for a while-and letting your meatshields get attacks of opportunity when they do? Even better. And even if they make the save with Cause Fear, you still get the effects of Doom for 1 round. (Look up the rules on Frightened and Shaken conditions.)

[Os1ris09]

My expertise is Clerics so hopefully I can be of some assistance in this.


Your primary job in lvls 1-6 is dont die and support your front line as best you can. Basically you keep your buffs on the front line and only use spells defensively on a as needed basis. Good spells for this are obscuring mist and such. To boost your AC and give you more survivability is to use Luminous Armor (+5 AC / -4 to hit in melee for your enemies).

Once you hit 7+ you start overshadowing your melee allies by being able to cast spells that can directly effect the outcome of a fight. Divine Might can come into play and make you a front line tank as far as Combat power is concerned (BAB = LVL).

To play a cleric you have to learn what your limitations are and what the party expects of you. Based upon what I've read about how you feel and what your stats are you are a supporting cleric that uses his spells to aid the front line. YOU DO NOT BELONG on the front line. For you to be on the front line you need GOOD STR/CON/WIS in that order. You dont have that. So stay in the back and look for ways to keep yourself safe and keep the front line alive.

Also look for cleric handbooks to help you understand the class as well. There are several spread out on the internet.

Hope this helps out.

[Karoht]

When you have 8000g to spend...
A +1 Conductive weapon. It allows you to use any of your Domain powers as part of an attack, at the cost of two charges instead of one. It also allows this for things like Lay on Hands for paladins and other such features.
It is a great way to use those domain powers that require an attack roll and still go ahead an hit something. Superb action economy and offensive/defensive capability. It can be devastating at low level, though I am completely aware that 8000g is a lot of money where you are right now.

Which brings up the natural question.
What Domains did you take?

[king.com]

Which brings up the natural question.
What Domains did you take?

Travel and Liberation Domains.

Also 8000g? Thats so far into the future I don't want to think about that. I'm currently running around with scale mail (I think? The armour under chain mail), a warhammer (favoured weapon), steel shield plus a handful of assorted equipment. Only magic item I have is a +1 sickle we found which I keep handy every now and again. I'm mostly living off of hand me downs of better things we find.

EDIT: Not that people are denying me stuff but I've more into giving the better stuff to the people who are better off with it as they get more out of it anyway.


You can change your stats? In that case, I'd advise assigning them as follows:
Wis: 18, Con: 14, Cha: 13, Dex: 12, Int: 10 and Str: 7. If you don't care about turning, then I'm pretty sure that you can dump charisma in pathfinder, though I don't know offhand. In that case, toss charisma all the way to 7, and bump everything underneath it up by one. If you care more about punching than skills, and there's a high possibility that you do, you can also switch intelligence and strength. I'm not hyper familiar with the PF spell list and its idiosyncrasies, so I'll possibly look into a good spell list later.

Edit: The critical thing here though, is that you bump up con. 10 is really low, and you can boost your current hp by 6 points with the change I listed. It's effectively like taking PF toughness twice over, and doesn't cost you that much.

Okay that sounds like an interesting idea, I might skip the char as a dump stat though I want to be a talky character and don't really want to sacrifice that.

Also I don't know if I'm allowed to modify my character at all though I don't see my GM making too much of a fuss when I get the chance to ask him.


The way you are describing the combats, and since you aren't exactly giving a lot of detail since that wasn't what you originally asked, you're not doing half bad here. The problem is that your fighters are not able to keep the enemy from running around them to attack the support (you and the Wizard). This is admittedly hard when you're in an open field. What is happening to your fellow support characters that you're hanging out with? My suspicion is that for the moment, you and your fellow artillerists need to look into things like Fly or Sanctuary that remove you from reach, rather than upping your combat prowess.

Okay, yea I'm not describing combat too well though I'm not entirely sure how to describe DnD combat in general.

I feel what ends up getting me killed is that me and wizard are hanging back, something flanks and then I get into melee with it and let the wizard back off, unfortunately I can take 1 maybe 2 hits and im on the floor bleeding so I should probably stop doing that. I have fly as a domain power so I'll definitely use that when I get the chance though I'll certainly be using sanctuary now.

As I said most of the time 1 or 2 people are missing (the paladin/fighter are the most common to not be there so theres usually only 1 front line person and sometimes the ranger steps in for that). The fighter is the int dump stat guy so he tends to run in and smash things, though theres not much we've encountered that doesn't go down in 1 hit from him. Paladin I'm not fully sure of, he tends to stick with us or move in to help the fighter though I cant make a good guess what hes trying to do. The Ranger is...random? I cant describe it more than that, seeming doing whatever they feeling like I guess. The Wizard is mostly just chucking sleeps and scorching rays along with some mage hand trick with throwing spears (not sure exactly sorry). I hand back and have been buffing the paladin to keep pace with the fighter and occasionally debuffing but then when im out of spells I tried wading into melee once (that didn't go so well) and after that just tried sticking with the wizard, saving the hold person for something big to hit.

EDIT: Sorry I'm not responding to everyone but there is a lot of good advice here thanks.

[KillingAScarab]

Okay that sounds like an interesting idea, I might skip the char as a dump stat though I want to be a talky character and don't really want to sacrifice that.

Also I don't know if I'm allowed to modify my character at all though I don't see my GM making too much of a fuss when I get the chance to ask him.Something to be aware of, your charisma score helps you with the channel energy class feature. If you have a lower charisma, it will be easier for things you attempt to harm with channel energy to make a will save and take half damage.


I feel what ends up getting me killed is that me and wizard are hanging back, something flanks and then I get into melee with it and let the wizard back off, unfortunately I can take 1 maybe 2 hits and im on the floor bleeding so I should probably stop doing that. I have fly as a domain power so I'll definitely use that when I get the chance though I'll certainly be using sanctuary now.Actually, you've hit upon one of the sources of confusion with the magic system in Pathfinder and earlier versions of D&D. The level of a spell is not the level you must be in order to cast it. In this case, you're looking at the travel domain's list of spells you can prepare in your domain spell slots. However, as a 3rd level cleric, you are only able to cast 1st level and 2nd level spells. You won't be able to cast a 3rd level spell (or domain spell) until you are a 5th level cleric. It's best if you look at the Spells Per Day portion of the table on page 40 of the Core Rulebook to figure this out. If you do not have the book, you may view just about everything about the cleric on the Pathfinder SRD, here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric).

After you have looked at that for a bit, you may notice a pattern emerge. At cleric level X, you can cast spell level Y.
Y is half of X+1. Rounded down.
So, at 3rd level you can cast 2nd (3+1=4, 4/2=2) level spells. At 5th level, you can cast 3rd level spells. At 7th level, you can cast 4th level spells. At 9th level, you can cast 5th level spells, and so on until at 17th level you can cast 9th level spells. Every two levels, you get access to new spells.


As I said most of the time 1 or 2 people are missing (the paladin/fighter are the most common to not be there so theres usually only 1 front line person and sometimes the ranger steps in for that).This is important. While the ranger can help fill in for either of those two, you generally want someone who is tougher to hit, which the ranger may not be. That usually comes from wearing heavier armor. If the ranger isn't a very nimble sort of character, when those two can't show up the rest of you are probably sitting ducks. Can the DM get permission to include their characters in combat when they are not there, perhaps with the player of the ranger or the wizard controlling them?


You definitely want to pick up Sanctuary, and start using that first thing. You won't even be visible to others so long as you focus on buffing and healing...so long as they fail that will save.Actually, sanctuary doesn't have the ability to avoid detection. It only prevents being targeted with an attack. Which means area of effect spells can still hit, no problem. They don't target individuals.

Hide from undead, however, does actually prevent the detection (by undead) of everyone it is cast upon. As a third level cleric, that's most of the party. Intelligent undead still get a will save, and even if they fail they can still be suspicious that someone is there. But... I don't know how much it would help to have the cleric avoid channeling positive energy at the undead to harm them. You can still buff your allies, I suppose. Seems a bit situational, but could be used to bypass an encounter with undead.


Also, drop Doom and Magic Weapon, pick up Sanctuary and Cause Fear. A -2 to everything is great. Getting them to run screaming, removing an opponent from combat for a while-and letting your meatshields get attacks of opportunity when they do? Even better. And even if they make the save with Cause Fear, you still get the effects of Doom for 1 round. (Look up the rules on Frightened and Shaken conditions.)I think it's worthwhile to note the limitations of cause fear and compare them with the limitations of command. Both only work on living creatures. Cause fear, however, cannot affect a target with more than 5 Hit Dice. king, hit dice for an NPC or a monster represent how many dice were rolled in order to determine their hit points, much as you did for your character. Whenever you gain a level, you gain another hit die. It's possible you may face one particularly tough enemy who exceeds this limit, and you probably aren't going to know if that's the reason why the spell fails.

Cause fear has a minimum duration of 1 round (exactly one round on a successful save) and a maximum duration of 4 rounds. Command's duration is exactly 1 round, but you get more control out of it; if you don't want the target to attack you, say "flee," and you don't need to worry if a penalty was enough to cause an attack to miss since that is all they can do. Three of the other players might still get an attack of opportunity, depending upon which direction the target runs from you.

[king.com]

Actually, you've hit upon one of the sources of confusion with the magic system in Pathfinder and earlier versions of D&D. The level of a spell is not the level you must be in order to cast it. In this case, you're looking at the travel domain's list of spells you can prepare in your domain spell slots. However, as a 3rd level cleric, you are only able to cast 1st level and 2nd level spells. You won't be able to cast a 3rd level spell (or domain spell) until you are a 5th level cleric. It's best if you look at the Spells Per Day portion of the table on page 40 of the Core Rulebook to figure this out.

Domains were listed earlier as liberation and travel, neither of which have domain powers with an attack roll. They seem a bit situational to me, but then if you're a cleric of Desna, your other choices are chaos, good and luck.

Yea I'm aware how every 2nd level gets access to a new tier of spells. When I said 'when I get a chance at casting it' I was referring to when I level up enough to cast it. For now I'm removing conditions with my domain spells.

Though I'm not a cleric of Desna, I'm a cleric with no god worshiping an ideal and those two seem the most appropriate domains for the character.

[KillingAScarab]

Yea I'm aware how every 2nd level gets access to a new tier of spells. When I said 'when I get a chance at casting it' I was referring to when I level up enough to cast it. For now I'm removing conditions with my domain spells.

Though I'm not a cleric of Desna, I'm a cleric with no god worshiping an ideal and those two seem the most appropriate domains for the character.Free spirited cleric. I can dig it. Sorry for misunderstanding you.

[king.com]

Free spirited cleric. I can dig it. Sorry for misunderstanding you.

Heh, no problem I said I wasn't an expert so assuming I didn't understand a rule was probably the best one.

Also, less free spirited and more scottish liberation freedom. Playing a chaotic neutral who pushes the be who want to be as long as it doesn't stop other being who they want to be.

EDIT: Though from what I hear chaotic neutral tends to be a bad alignment to play? Though thats off topic question, is it just because people play it as a random person instead?

[KillingAScarab]

Though from what I hear chaotic neutral tends to be a bad alignment to play? Though thats off topic question, is it just because people play it as a random person instead?Yeah, the alignment system and how people interpret it is a bit beyond the scope of this sort of thread. Best to stay on topic, so I will tell you that being a chaotic neutral cleric will have an affect upon which spells you can cast. This is one of the things which has come up regarding Durkon in Order of the Stick, lately. So, you can't cast any spells with the lawful descriptor, such as Protection from Chaos or Magic Circle against Chaos, or cast a summon monster spell to summon something with the lawful subtype. You can still summon other things, though, and the Core Rulebook was nice enough to include a table which lists subtypes (though my printing needed errata).

Come to think of it, I just assumed your character channels positive energy, but being neutral on the Good-Evil axis means you had a choice. Did you choose to channel positive or negative energy?

[king.com]

Yeah, the alignment system and how people interpret it is a bit beyond the scope of this sort of thread. Best to stay on topic, so I will tell you that being a chaotic neutral cleric will have an affect upon which spells you can cast. This is one of the things which has come up regarding Durkon in Order of the Stick, lately. So, you can't cast any spells with the lawful descriptor, such as Protection from Chaos or Magic Circle against Chaos, or cast a summon monster spell to summon something with the lawful subtype. You can still summon other things, though, and the Core Rulebook was nice enough to include a table which lists subtypes (though my printing needed errata).

Come to think of it, I just assumed your character channels positive energy, but being neutral on the Good-Evil axis means you had a choice. Did you choose to channel positive or negative energy?

I channel positive but I was thinking of taking the feat to do both later, not sure if its worth it or not. Though that choice was tied into my idea of turning into a necromancer (though that might be saved for a later character) given events in game.

[KillingAScarab]

I channel positive but I was thinking of taking the feat to do both later, not sure if its worth it or not. Though that choice was tied into my idea of turning into a necromancer (though that might be saved for a later character) given events in game.A feat which allows you to channel both positive and negative energy? I'm not familiar with this feat. I'm also not seeing it on pfd20srd.com, as all that it lists are the same channeling feats (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/channeling-feats) available in the core rulebook, according to the source column. Is it in a different feat category?

[king.com]

A feat which allows you to channel both positive and negative energy? I'm not familiar with this feat. I'm also not seeing it on pfd20srd.com, as all that it lists are the same channeling feats (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/channeling-feats) available in the core rulebook, according to the source column. Is it in a different feat category?

Oh...I misread the alignment channel feat given it says "heal or harm" but it only works on outsiders. Oh well.

[Marlowe]

If you're of non-good alignment (and you are) you can channel negative energy as many times a day equal to your wis modifier with the Spontaneous Wounder feat from Complete Divine.

[king.com]

So I got to change all my stuff around, ended up with:

Str 7, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 14.

Domains: Travel, Liberation

Skills: Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Heal.

Feats: Toughness, Improved Intiative and Selective Channelling.

I really like the idea of ignoring attacks and just putting on plate mail without the feat to stand and take it while chucking spells. My GM said the unless I'm doing something ridiculous he's not going to pay attention to weight so I'm fine with using whatever gear I want.

Really feel like I'm much more solid and with the spell list I'm nowmore helpful. Thanks for everyone's input and linking that google doc!