Eldritch Disciple / VoP Build:

[Os1ris09]

Hello Fellow Gamers,

I'm trying to find a way to make the best use out of the VoP feat in BoED and was wondering what the playgrounds advise is?

Right now I have an idea where I use the following build to try and take advantage of cleric buffing with monk-i-ness

Human
1 monk/ 4 cloistered cleric / 10 Sacred Fist / 5 XXXX


Feats:
Sacred Vow
VoP
Knowledge Devotion (non sacrificed)
Stunning Fist

If there is no good ideas to help compliment the VoP aspect then I was looking into an Eldritch Disciple Build

Human
1 Cloistered Cleric / 1 Warlock / 3 C. Cleric / 10 E.D. / 5 XXXX

Feats:
Sacred Vow
Vow of Poverty
(feats as necessary)


Basically taking advantage of the best aspects of the class. Can be an Off tank but is mainly support and only goes into MAN MODE when necessary.

Hopefully the playground can help me out solidify these concepts.

[dascarletm]

Here is an idea a friend of mine came up with.

Monk 1.
Shifter Druid rest. (PHBII Variant)

focus' on natural attacks, and gets wis to AC while shifted.

[Snowbluff]

Cloistered has 1/2 BAB. You might want less levels of that of you are melee focused.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If I was going to combine Eldritch Disciple with VoP, I'd probably go Warlock 7/ Apostle of Peace 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Paragnostic Apostle 1. See if you can use Nonlethal Substitution with your EB, since it's a +0 metamagic anyway.

Beguiler 7/ Eldritch Disciple 2/ Mystic Theurge 8/ (arcane PrCs) 3 is one of the few VoP builds I'd consider playable. Druid 20 is another one, and (unarmed) Sworsage could even work, but definitely not Monk.

[Snowbluff]

If I was going to combine Eldritch Disciple with VoP, I'd probably go Warlock 7/ Apostle of Peace 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Paragnostic Apostle 1. See if you can use Nonlethal Substitution with your EB, since it's a +0 metamagic anyway.

Warlock has Charm and Suggestion as possible SLAs, making a VoPe build a pretty fun option. This is actually something I tried in a few builds.

I named her Motte. Her outfit was pretty mothy (http://ekmars.deviantart.com/art/Motte-324194003?q=gallery%3Aekmars%2F32586880&qo=5). The first time I used her it was against a bunch of undead, which was sad. The second time, I owned the game. The boss of an area of was beating up the party, so I pretty much mind-bent him into submission.

[Os1ris09]

So what would a suggested build for VoP be then?

[Snowbluff]

Hmm...

If you are doing Cloistered, I suggest Naenhoon or DMM on Divine Power to fix help with the BaB problem. Travel Devotion would do pretty well. Keep in mind these cut into your Turning Pool, which is used for your gifts as well.

Warlock1/Cleric4/ED10. You may be able to finish with Mystic Theurge, using Precocious Apprentice or Southern Magician. Ordained Champion refluff and a CG War God would let you cast Divine Might as a Swift Action.

For Invocations, make sure to pick up Eldritch Glaive (Healing Glaive!), and Vitriolic Blast.
Spell: Luminous Armor, Shield of Faith should help out your AC. Divine Might and Righteous Might make you int o a melee powerhouse.

Feats:
Sacred Vow, VoP, Power Attack (Use with Glaive for more damage... or healing. :smallamused:), DMM/Naenhoon, Quicken SLA (Works great with Glaive as well).

[Os1ris09]

Hmm...

If you are doing Cloistered, I suggest Naenhoon or DMM on Divine Power to fix help with the BaB problem. Travel Devotion would do pretty well. Keep in mind these cut into your Turning Pool, which is used for your gifts as well.

Warlock1/Cleric4/ED10. You may be able to finish with Mystic Theurge, using Precocious Apprentice or Southern Magician. Ordained Champion refluff and a CG War God would let you cast Divine Might as a Swift Action.

For Invocations, make sure to pick up Eldritch Glaive (Healing Glaive!), and Vitriolic Blast.
Spell: Luminous Armor, Shield of Faith should help out your AC. Divine Might and Righteous Might make you int o a melee powerhouse.

Feats:
Sacred Vow, VoP, Power Attack (Use with Glaive for more damage... or healing. :smallamused:), DMM/Naenhoon, Quicken SLA (Works great with Glaive as well).

I went to read your warlock guide and you have chameleon as purple. Would it be worth the 2 lvl dip for the ability to have that extra changeable feat and the ability to get some CC from the 2nd lvl arcane spells?

I am thinking this is the build so far (the campaign I'm going to be playing in will go from 1-30)

Human
Warlock 1/C-Cleric 4/E.D. 10/Chameleon 2/Mystic Theurge 8/ Warlock 5

Able Learner
Practice Spellcaster (or whichever feat to boost CL)

One thing I am not sure of is if Mystic Theurge will lvl the Chameleon class since it's spellcasting is dependent on a constant choice of Arcane focus.

[Snowbluff]

I went to read your warlock guide and you have chameleon as purple. Would it be worth the 2 lvl dip for the ability to have that extra changeable feat and the ability to get some CC from the 2nd lvl arcane spells?

I am thinking this is the build so far (the campaign I'm going to be playing in will go from 1-30)I would say it depends. The floating feat can be nice, but you could keep your CL for Warlock and Cleric. 2nd level arcane spells might as well be cantrips for you. Your invocations and cleric spells should easily cover anything you could get out of low levels of chameleon. If you are keen on these spells, I would suggest grabbing Anyspell instead.


Human
Warlock 1/C-Cleric 4/E.D. 10/Chameleon 2/Mystic Theurge 8/ Warlock 5

Able Learner
Practice Spellcaster (or whichever feat to boost CL)Mystic Theurge may not be necessary in this progression. Ask your DM for an epic progression of ED. Probably full Divine/Invoker CL and extra Gift every 4 levels.

Consider what Epic Invocation feats you might want to pick up as well. You'll need a few invocations to qualify for any of them, so planning ahead is best.


One thing I am not sure of is if Mystic Theurge will lvl the Chameleon class since it's spellcasting is dependent on a constant choice of Arcane focus.
I don't think Mystic Theurge would be allowed to progress Chameleon, since it's not always a spellcasting class.

[Fouredged Sword]

Chameleon is very nice 2, It opens up every crafting feat + any invocation you want that day but don't have.

Also you can use it to pick up a situation feat like skill focus (diplomacy) for when you go into more social sections of play, or the healing reserve feat for when you are low on resources.

[SaintRidley]

Chameleon is very nice 2, It opens up every crafting feat + any invocation you want that day but don't have.


Only problem there is you need to hit Warlock 12 for those feats to do anything for you as a Warlock/Chameleon, which doesn't leave much room for other things.

[Snowbluff]

Only problem there is you need to hit Warlock 12 for those feats to do anything for you as a Warlock/Chameleon, which doesn't leave much room for other things.

Yes and no. While the warlock imbuing is not an option, crafting from cleric casting is possible. I don't think the 2 levels would be worth it.

Don't bother using it for skill fears. Guidance of the Avatar and Divine Insight are cleric spells and they stack.

[Phelix-Mu]

There is a web article out there somewhere with the epic level feats that WotC put out there for epic warlocks. While there might be some hoops to jump through invocation-wise (if memory serves all of them required a list of 2-3 invocations), the boost in power level was impressive.

Definitely worth a few google attempts. I can't recall the name of the article, but it was on the Wizards site and talked about epic warlocks.

[os1ris]

So after reading everyone's responses I think I now have the build I want... :smallconfused:

Warlock 1 / C-Cleric 4 / E.D. 10 / Contemplative 1 / E.D. 14

Gets Warlock 25 Invocations and 29 CL Cleric Casting without any feats or items

I want to specialize a little bit more and get some versatility but I can't seem to find the spot for it. I think I can afford to lose 3 more CL's and take the feat that raises your CL by 4 but I don't know where to spend those 3 lvls...

Any advice or is it good as is?

[Os1ris09]

Accidently replied on friends account. :smallconfused:

The above post was from me

[Snowbluff]

There is a web article out there somewhere with the epic level feats that WotC put out there for epic warlocks. While there might be some hoops to jump through invocation-wise (if memory serves all of them required a list of 2-3 invocations), the boost in power level was impressive.

Definitely worth a few google attempts. I can't recall the name of the article, but it was on the Wizards site and talked about epic warlocks.It should be linked in my handbook. I wrote a short section on it.


So after reading everyone's responses I think I now have the build I want... :smallconfused:

Warlock 1 / C-Cleric 4 / E.D. 10 / Contemplative 1 / E.D. 14

Gets Warlock 25 Invocations and 29 CL Cleric Casting without any feats or items

I want to specialize a little bit more and get some versatility but I can't seem to find the spot for it. I think I can afford to lose 3 more CL's and take the feat that raises your CL by 4 but I don't know where to spend those 3 lvls...

Any advice or is it good as is? If you are using armor spells, Monk or Battledancer is a good sources of AC. Monk is lame, however.

Don't worry about skills. The spells I mentioned earlier should help.

Keep in mind the epic progression rules. Ask for epic VoP rules.

[Os1ris09]

It should be linked in my handbook. I wrote a short section on it.

If you are using armor spells, Monk or Battledancer is a good sources of AC. Monk is lame, however.

Don't worry about skills. The spells I mentioned earlier should help.

Keep in mind the epic progression rules. Ask for epic VoP rules.

Im not just referring to skills. I'm referring to my ability to help the team with whats needed. When I said versatility I wasn't meaning skill monkey. I was literally meaning I can switch from Primary Buffer to Crowd Control in fights. I know of ONE invocation that can do that. The tentacle invocation but I'm looking for other ways to manipulate the field or serve other roles as needed.

Edit: Also are crafting feats worth their cost? You don't spend as much gold but you lose XP and time.

[Snowbluff]

Im not just referring to skills. I'm referring to my ability to help the team with whats needed. When I said versatility I wasn't meaning skill monkey. I was literally meaning I can switch from Primary Buffer to Crowd Control in fights. I know of ONE invocation that can do that. The tentacle invocation but I'm looking for other ways to manipulate the field or serve other roles as needed.Ok, take Eldritch Chain (Or cone) and Noxious Blast/Other CC Essence. Word of Changing. Curse of Despair (Disembodied Hand can deliver your Touch Spells and Invocations). Painful Slumber of Ages.

The Walls can be handy as well. Glove of the Blast Barrier can use your SLAs to break LoE with a barrier.



Edit: Also are crafting feats worth their cost? You don't spend as much gold but you lose XP and time.

In most cases, not really. The more effective crafters spend more resources to make it more effective.

[Os1ris09]

Ok, take Eldritch Chain (Or cone) and Noxious Blast/Other CC Essence. Word of Changing. Curse of Despair (Disembodied Hand can deliver your Touch Spells and Invocations). Painful Slumber of Ages.

The Walls can be handy as well. Glove of the Blast Barrier can use your SLAs to break LoE with a barrier.

Where are you finding these invocations? Most notably the ones after Noxious Blast. I have never even heard of those invocations.

[Snowbluff]

Where are you finding these invocations? Most notably the ones after Noxious Blast. I have never even heard of those invocations.

Complete Mage for Disembodied Hand (Lesser) and Painful Slumber (Greater).

Word of Changing is a Dark Invocation from Complete Arcane. Curse of Despair is a lesser Invocation.

[Os1ris09]

Ok, so as of right now I'm planning on the character to go from 1 - 20 however he will be played until 30 if I get the opportunity.

That being said here is the current build as I am abandoning the VoP aspect (build is completely item dependent).

EDIT: HUMAN!!!! (forgot to include in original post)

1 Warlock / 4 Cloistered Cleric / 10 Eldritch Disciple / 1 Contemplative / 2 Divine Oracle / 3 Hellfire Warlock / 9 Eldritch Disciple

DM wont allow Epic progression for ED until we hit epic levels. So I fill those levels with useful prestige classes for Clerics in general (to get bonus domain and evasion in mithril breastplate)

My question now is what feats to take outside of DMM(Persist) chain. I have to ok that series with the DM before I invest into that strategy with items and other feats.

[Os1ris09]

NO more help from the playground? :smallfrown:

[Fouredged Sword]

The freedom and Knowledge devotion feats are nice. Knowledge devotion plays well with an intrinsic +6 to knowledge skills from that warlock invocation, and it greatly helps in the damage and hitting department. Freedom devotion lets you float up and glaive a fool.

[Snowbluff]

Travel Devotion, Power Attack, and Extra Turning.

[Os1ris09]

well I'm going cloistered cleric so I will already have the knowledge domain. I'm also going to have the travel domain and might trade it for travel devotion. What I'm trying to decide on is that second domain so I know what deity to worship.

As of this moment I do not know if Power Attack works with Glaive since its still evocation energy and not an actual blade just your blast mimicking the blade.

Any ideas on a second domain and if its worth trading the travel/knowledge domains for their feats or if I should just take the feats normally?

[Snowbluff]

Any ideas on a second domain and if its worth trading the travel/knowledge domains for their feats or if I should just take the feats normally?

I'd trade of Knowledge and Travel Devotion. I'd suggest keeping your last domain so you have something to do with your last slots.

[Os1ris09]

Why would you trade away freedom of movement though?

Its X rounds per day and useful if you end up getting caught by a web or something that needs a reflex save.

Also to clarify does a cloistered cleric get all knowledge skills as class skills because of the class or is it because of the knowledge domain power?

EDIT: Also I am trying to figure out that third domain that would be most beneficial since I get knowledge from cloistered cleric and travel normally.

[Snowbluff]

Why would you trade away freedom of movement though? FoM is a cleric spell.



Also to clarify does a cloistered cleric get all knowledge skills as class skills because of the class or is it because of the knowledge domain power?
I think it means to say that the knowledge skills are a result of Knowledge Domain. The regular Cleric Knowledge skills should be good enough for most campaigns.



EDIT: Also I am trying to figure out that third domain that would be most beneficial since I get knowledge from cloistered cleric and travel normally.
Trickery is nice.

[Os1ris09]

Ok... so DMM(persist) FoM now :smallbiggrin:. Forgot it was on the spell list.

Looking back at the knowledge domain spells I agree that I'll trade that away for the devotion feat.

That being said, I was looking over the travel domain again and it has some useful spells that are great for a non-main arcane caster class.

What I'm thinking of is the following domain list
Knowedge (traded for devotion feat)
Travel (debating between keeping if DM says no to the Cloistered Cleric)
Animal (due to the campaign we're playing this is this best domain I can find with the other domains still as an option)

Human
Cleric 1 / Warlock 1 / Cleric 3 / Eldritch Disciple 10 / Hellfire Warlock 3 / XX 2 / Eldritch Disciple 10

Feat Progression:
Domain Trade - Knowledge Devotion
Domain Trade - Travel Devotion
Human - Extra Turning
1st - Extend Spell
3rd - Persist Spell
6th - Mitigate Suffering
9th - Divine Metamagic Persist
12th -
15th -
18th -

I need help figuring out the last of my feats including going into Epic Progression. Any advice playground?