PF Battle Bard help?

[Sajiri]

As I recently stated in another thread looking for class suggestions, I'm going to be playing a solo game soon in which I get to make a pirate captain. I decided to just keep it simple and not deal with converting 3.5 classes, and settled on bard.

I've been looking at the archetypes Dervish of Dawn, and Dervish Dancer, I can't really tell which is better. Initially I found some big long page about why Dervish Dancer is the best option for a melee bard, but then I've seen on some threads asking the question that Dervish of Dawn is better (without much explanation as why). Or, is there something better than that out there again?

I'm not too worried about optimization with this one, but any tips (useful feats, tactics, etc) that could be suggested would be greatly appreciated :)

Edit: I'm open to 3.5 content too, just not classes

[Xerxus]

Battle focused bard pirate captain?

Battle Herald might be your thing! See if you can't get a shark or dolphin (or whatever) as your cavalier mount, get cavalier to level 4 in order to be able to take the horse master feat, get that level of bard then just go battle herald all the way!

[stack]

Dervish of dawn gets dervish dance for free, plus double inspiration (self only). The dervish dancer gets self only bonuses, but they aren't doubled. If you bring in the 3.5 inspire courage boosts, the dawn gets fun fast since you'll double all those boosts (song of the heart, inspiration boost, badge of valor, words of creation).

However, I'm not sure either is the best bet for a pirate captain. Consider arcane duelist for some melee bonuses without losing the ability to inspire your crew. Probably some other archetypes as well. You'll be a better captain by making the whole ship better. Though again, if you want to be a melee damager first and foremost, dervish of dawn + maxed IC.

[Sajiri]

I want to make it a melee focused bard before support. I had actually been considering making a gunslinger buccaneer instead until the DM said he was going to make one as a crew member (at least I hope it was a crew member, all he said was 'I was going to make that' when I said I was considering slinger), so I turned to this idea instead.

[Chained Birds]

I'd go with (same thing I do with every Melee Bard I make), Dervish of Dawn + Savage Skald. Now, you grant some bonuses to your allies for being awesome in combat (confirming crits on that 18-20 weapon of yours).

If you get to level 6 with this combo, and you have a Barbarian friend, you can induce Rage onto him and have him Rage for free as long as you keep on performing and being awesome.

[Chaosvii7]

I currently play a Dervish Dancer(level 8 or so), and despite the fact that it doesn't come on as soon as Dervish of Dawn(Dervish Dancer comes on around level 3 whereas Dervish of Dawn is good to from level 1) I enjoy it very much. The Dervish Dancer's alternate dances are really good at making him a decent combatant, but I agree that Bard is generally not the way you may want to go with this kind of a character. I like the idea of the Battle Herald - you really only need light armor, too, so you can take some of those exotic archetypes if you'd prefer. The spells combined with the performance combat doesn't really suit the pirate feel as much, especially considering that dervish dancer is definitely more of an eastern concept and pirates are largely western in origin. Battle Heralds are combatants with a panache for inspiring and rallying the crew.

You could also start out as a bard and perhaps segue into one of the pirate-themed prestige classes(they exist somewhere in PF, I promise). Take some levels in Fighter(Cad would be a good archetype for pirates, especially given that it's all about underhanded combat) for some battle heartiness.

[Daftendirekt]

Whatever you do, pick up Arcane Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/arcane-strike-combat) for essentially free bonus damage.

[Acanous]

First thing I did when opening this thread was Ctrl+F Sound Striker.

Nobody's suggested it yet.

Sound Striker.

At lv 6, you start winning the game with ranged Touch attacks that deal 1d8+CHA (fort for half) and you get to assign Bludgeoning. Piercing or Slashing (So it bypasses those DRs)
Six levels of Bard, then go Rogue (Ninja) 1 and you can apply SA damage to your Weird Words. By lv 11 you're dealing 10d8+10xCHA (Save for half) +10D6 per round, as a swift action, so long as you: Flank the enemy, are acting before they have this combat, are invisible, or otherwise deny them dex to AC.
So you take a 2nd level of Ninja and grab the invisibility trick...

you've got the skill ranks to doanything you want. You've got decent capablities in every other aspect, and it costs you almost nothing to do this.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I would go with Dervish of Dawn. It's the best melee bard class. Dervish Dancer and Arcane Duelist both give you decent perform options (the haste dance and bladethirst, respectively) that compete with Inspire Courage. Can only have one up at a time. Dervish of Dawn simply makes inspire double awesome for you, and the dex-only combat dependency is great, too.

[stack]

I feel the need to reiterate, for melee awesomeness, adding the 3.5 stuff as the OP said was allowed makes the dervish of dawn IC doubling awesome. Heck weasel dragonfire inspiration in if you want to just do damage. Song of the heart at level 3, inspiration boost spell as a swift when you start performing puts you at +6/+6 attack/damage. Snag power attack/arcane strike, grab the 3.5 IC boosting item (badge of valor?), you'll be fine in melee.

[Daftendirekt]

By lv 11 you're dealing 10d8+10xCHA (Save for half) +10D6 per round, as a swift action, so long as you: Flank the enemy, are acting before they have this combat, are invisible, or otherwise deny them dex to AC.
So you take a 2nd level of Ninja and grab the invisibility trick...


I'm fairly certain your numbers are wrong. You're not doing 10d8+(10*cha). You're doing 1d8+cha to up to 10 different targets. Also, I'm assuming that 10d6 is supposed to be sneak attack applied to all 10 attacks, so that again would be reduced to +1d6 per target.


I feel the need to reiterate, for melee awesomeness, adding the 3.5 stuff as the OP said was allowed makes the dervish of dawn IC doubling awesome. Heck weasel dragonfire inspiration in if you want to just do damage. Song of the heart at level 3, inspiration boost spell as a swift when you start performing puts you at +6/+6 attack/damage. Snag power attack/arcane strike, grab the 3.5 IC boosting item (badge of valor?), you'll be fine in melee.

Oh hell, 3.5 is allowed? I missed that. Max Dex and Cha. Dervish Dance + Snowflake Wardance + Crystal Echoblade + Arcane Strike + Power Attack (or Piranha Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/piranha-strike-combat) if you can convince your DM to allow Dervish Dance to replace Weapon Finesse for the prereq, then you don't need 13 str). You're golden.

Also, don't forget Song of the Heart (http://dndtools.eu/feats/eberron-campaign-setting--12/song-of-the-heart--2675/) and Words of Creation (http://dndtools.eu/feats/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/words-of-creation--3168/) for even more IC boosting.

[Sajiri]

Just as some more info.

3.5 when it comes to feats and such- I generally have had no problem with that so long as the DM okays it, he's never turned down anything before but I dont know in future. I just don't want to use too much of it especially if I have to adjust any rules and throw him off.

I'm not sure on the starting lvl, he said he might roll a D6 to determine what lvl.

I'm not making a conventional pirate exactly, I want to base it loosely off Grace O'Malley. Aka Noble (kinda) turns pirate, so the bard stuff was kind of an idea for a flashy type pirate...I dont really know how to describe it I guess.

Edit: Also, pirates of the caribbean style. I'm told there will be pirates of various backgrounds (asian, middle eastern, etc) aaand if he goes with his original ideas he was telling me, chances are the DM might make a lot of use of eastern empires? Dragon Empires? (I forget the name of the pathfinder asian style setting) so eastern concepts aren't that far out there for this.

I may be open to other alternatives, but I just really like melee/mage hybrids. The obvious PF choice for that though would be magus, but my character in the other campaign I've been playing is a magus, so I dont want to do that again. I was originally going to be converting hexblade from 3.5 (even less pirate feeling) but decided I didn't want to deal with that and balancing with PF, especially when the DM has (by his own admission) a tendency to overestimate classes as being overpowered when they're not.

[Chaosvii7]

I'm fairly certain your numbers are wrong. You're not doing 10d8+(10*cha). You're doing 1d8+cha to up to 10 different targets. Also, I'm assuming that 10d6 is supposed to be sneak attack applied to all 10 attacks, so that again would be reduced to +1d6 per target.


It does say that each sound effects one target, but it doesn't say that each sound can only effect one target at a time, so I suppose if your DM is a nice guy then it's a fair ruling to have multiple sounds target one person. It's RAW vs. RAI with a zest of DM, though, so you're walking a slippery slope no matter what happens.

[magwaaf]

dervish dancer is incredible!

[Kudaku]

I'm playing a Dervish Dancer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/dawnflower-dervish) bard at the moment, currently level 4 and I'm loving it. With the battle dance bonus you're a surprisingly effective switch hitter too, I'd keep a bow handy.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'm playing a Dervish Dancer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/dawnflower-dervish) bard at the moment, currently level 4 and I'm loving it. With the battle dance bonus you're a surprisingly effective switch hitter too, I'd keep a bow handy.

People need to stop referring to the Dawnflower Dervish / Dervish of Dawn as the "Dervish Dancer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/dervish-dancer)," it just leads to confusion.

[Kudaku]

People need to stop referring to the Dawnflower Dervish / Dervish of Dawn as the "Dervish Dancer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/dervish-dancer)," it just leads to confusion.

I said dervish dancer to indicate my bard relied on the dervish dancer feat, not the archetype. I added the hyperlink to the Dervish of Dawn specifically to avoid confusion as to what archetype I use.

It should also be noted that the dawnflower dervish is specifically named the Dervish of Dawn at pfsrd, so they may be using that name for ease of reference.

[StreamOfTheSky]

No, d20pfsrd calls the Dawnflower Dervish the Dervish of Dawn.

Dervish Dancer archetype is completely different, from Ultimate Combat, and labelled correctly there.

[Kudaku]

That's what I get for not double checking the archetypes before posting. Either way it illustrates the benefit of links to explain which archetype you mean :smallsmile: