Gestalt - Bard/?, Beguiler/?, or Psion/?

[jderk]

Hello!

I am going to be a player in a gestalt campaign(my first one), and I am having trouble finding a suitable passive class to pair with my chosen active class options listed in the title. What are some options I could pick?

The rules for choosing classes are as follows:
1. No tier one classes allowed.
2. If you choose a tier two class, you must choose a tier four or lower as the second class.
3. You may only have one prestige class at a time.

Thanks for the help!

[Aegis013]

Just a heads up, I'm the DM for the campaign, so if there are any relevant rules questions/restrictions I'll be around to answer.

Additionally, the game starts at third level, theurge PrCs are not allowed, and fractional BAB/saves will be used.

[thethird]

I have had a lot of fun with:

Beguiler / Warblade

At fifth level take a couple of levels of prestige bard (in the beguiler side) and then at seventh take levels in war chanter (in the warblade side).

Other than the prc levels (that add some buffing capabilities) it plays as a sturdy beguiler or a tricky warblade.

If that doesn't fit your fancy, if Aegis allows it the prestige bard works really well on a beguiler base. Perhaps adding unseen seer over it from more sneakyness...

Other than a character that uses those classes what would you like it to do?

[Aegis013]

If that doesn't fit your fancy, if Aegis allows it the prestige bard works really well on a beguiler base. Perhaps adding unseen seer over it from more sneakyness...


While it's a good suggestion, the base class-PrCs (Prestige Bard, Prestige Paladin, et cetera) are not used in my game, as they are variants which replace the base class, and the base class assuredly exists in the campaign world.

[gorfnab]

Bard // Crusader
Bard // Paladin of Freedom
Bard // Binder
Bard // Dragon Shaman
Bard // Paladin / Hexblade / Marshal (insert Cha synergy here)

Beguiler // Warblade
Beguiler // Rogue / Swashbuckler (Daring Outlaw)
Beguiler // Factotum
Beguiler // Duskblade

Psion // Warblade
Psion // Factotum

[yugi24862]

Those Psion ones wont work as Psion is T2 so the other half must be T4 or above. Psion/Rogue maybe?

[Grod_The_Giant]

I've always kind of wanted to try Beguiler//Warmage. Cast all the damage-dealing and all the non-damage-dealing spells! Spontaneously!

[Amnestic]

Bard // Binder
Beguiler // Factotum


Big fan of both of these.

[Waker]

For Bard you could do just fine with Dragonfire Adept. Gives you access to several all-day buffs, some damage with your various breath weapons and a few other little options. Wouldn't have to change your stat arrangement at all.

Beguiler could mix with Incarnate or Totemist. Both classes have excellent passive options as well as granting big boosts to skills, saves and immunities. Incarnate will grant you more immunities as well as some magic boosts, like Illusion Veil. Totemist grants movement options and more offensive choices.

Psion could benefit from the defensive traits and skills from the Monk class. Carmendine Monk or Kung-Fu Genius will reduce MADness.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Desert Half-Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertHalfOrcs), combine with Frostblood Half-Orc in Dragon Magic (tundras are technically deserts), use the Half-Humans variant on Races of Destiny p150.
Two flaws: Bravado (can't use the withdraw action, can't benefit from dodge bonuses to AC) and City Slicker (-4 to Handle Animal, Kn: Nature, and Survival checks). Flaws may be taken "when creating a character" so starting at 3rd level, your flaws may fall at any level from 1st-3rd.

Plan to get Menacing Demeanor via the Otyugh Hole in Complete Scoundrel, do it during play for a time/RP investment, or behind the scenes during downtime for 3,000 gp.

1. Bard 1// Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon) 1, Dreadful Wrath, Melodic Casting, Endurance
2. Bard 2// Fighter 1, EWP: Ritiik (Frostburn)
3. Bard 3// Fighter 2, Dungeoncrasher, Obtain Familiar, Improved Familiar (Krenshar, CW)
4. Bard 4// Zhentarim Fighter (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) 3, Skill Focus: Intimidate
5. Bard 5// Dread Witch 1, Never Outnumbered skill trick
6. Bard 6// Fighter 4, Imperious Command, Combat Reflexes
7. Bard 7// Zhentarim Fighter 5
8. Bard 8// Nightmare Spinner 1
9. Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) 1// Mindbender 1, Mindsight
10. Nightmare Spinner 2// Fighter 6, Dungeoncrasher
11. Sublime Chord 1// Fighter 7
12. Sublime Chord 2// Fighter 8, Haunting Melody, Combat Expertise
13. Nightmare Spinner 3// Zhentarim Fighter 9
14. Nightmare Spinner 4// Fighter 10, Improved Trip
15. Nightmare Spinner 5// Warblade 1, Fell Frighten Spell
16. Dread Witch 2// Warblade 2
17. Dread Witch 3// Warblade 3
18. Dread Witch 4// Warblade 4, Practical Metamagic: Fell Frighten
19. Dread Witch 5// Warblade 5, Iron Heart Aura
20. Paragnostic Apostle 1// Warblade 6

Note, the limit of 1st level maneuvers at 1st level specifically states, "You begin play with knowledge of one 1st-level stance from any discipline open to warblades." If your DM would force you to take a 1st level stance at Warblade 1 despite an initiator level of 8, then you get that stance when you begin play, regardless of its prerequisites. In this case get Bolstering Voice, and promise to get at least one level in both Crusader and Swordsage in the epic levels to also start with Martial Spirit and Hunter's Sense.

Read the Fear Handbook (http://web.archive.org/web/20120520034053/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0), specifically the second post.

Plan on getting armor (mithral breastplate) with the Fearsome property (DotU), a Circlet of Rapid Casting (MIC), a Mask of the Matriarch (DotU), a Shadow Cloak (DotU), an Eternal Wand (MIC) of Hound of Doom (CW), and anything else listed in the above handbook.

Remember that your familiar can use your own Intimidate ranks to demoralize opponents.

Almost forgot, swap Inspire Courage for Inspire Awe from Dragon Magic, trade Bardic Knowledge for Bardic Knack in PH2, and replace Countersong with Spellbreaker Song from CM.

[FleshrakerAbuse]

That last one is ungodly. Ungodly cheesy.:smalltongue:

Well, he did say prestige classes can't be paired.

I'd suggest a simple bard/crusader song of the white raven for the cha.

[Mithril Leaf]

Bard/Binders are quite fun, especially if you can grab some supplemental vestiges from Secrets and Villains of Pact Magic.

[DMVerdandi]

I have had a lot of fun with:

Beguiler / Warblade



That always sounded like a fun mix to me.
Awesome illusions and enchantment to take control of the battlefield and wreak havoc.

[Aegis013]

Desert Half-Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertHalfOrcs), combine with Frostblood Half-Orc in Dragon Magic (tundras are technically deserts), use the Half-Humans variant on Races of Destiny p150.
Two flaws: Bravado (can't use the withdraw action, can't benefit from dodge bonuses to AC) and City Slicker (-4 to Handle Animal, Kn: Nature, and Survival checks). Flaws may be taken "when creating a character" so starting at 3rd level, your flaws may fall at any level from 1st-3rd.

Plan to get Menacing Demeanor via the Otyugh Hole in Complete Scoundrel, do it during play for a time/RP investment, or behind the scenes during downtime for 3,000 gp.

1. Bard 1// Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon) 1, Dreadful Wrath, Melodic Casting, Endurance
2. Bard 2// Fighter 1, EWP: Ritiik (Frostburn)
3. Bard 3// Fighter 2, Dungeoncrasher, Obtain Familiar, Improved Familiar (Krenshar, CW)
4. Bard 4// Zhentarim Fighter (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) 3, Skill Focus: Intimidate
5. Bard 5// Dread Witch 1, Never Outnumbered skill trick
6. Bard 6// Fighter 4, Imperious Command, Combat Reflexes
7. Bard 7// Zhentarim Fighter 5
8. Bard 8// Nightmare Spinner 1
9. Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) 1// Mindbender 1, Mindsight
10. Nightmare Spinner 2// Fighter 6, Dungeoncrasher
11. Sublime Chord 1// Fighter 7
12. Sublime Chord 2// Fighter 8, Haunting Melody, Combat Expertise
13. Nightmare Spinner 3// Zhentarim Fighter 9
14. Nightmare Spinner 4// Fighter 10, Improved Trip
15. Nightmare Spinner 5// Warblade 1, Fell Frighten Spell
16. Dread Witch 2// Warblade 2
17. Dread Witch 3// Warblade 3
18. Dread Witch 4// Warblade 4, Practical Metamagic: Fell Frighten
19. Dread Witch 5// Warblade 5, Iron Heart Aura
20. Paragnostic Apostle 1// Warblade 6

Note, the limit of 1st level maneuvers at 1st level specifically states, "You begin play with knowledge of one 1st-level stance from any discipline open to warblades." If your DM would force you to take a 1st level stance at Warblade 1 despite an initiator level of 8, then you get that stance when you begin play, regardless of its prerequisites. In this case get Bolstering Voice, and promise to get at least one level in both Crusader and Swordsage in the epic levels to also start with Martial Spirit and Hunter's Sense.

Read the Fear Handbook (http://web.archive.org/web/20120520034053/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0), specifically the second post.

Plan on getting armor (mithral breastplate) with the Fearsome property (DotU), a Circlet of Rapid Casting (MIC), a Mask of the Matriarch (DotU), a Shadow Cloak (DotU), an Eternal Wand (MIC) of Hound of Doom (CW), and anything else listed in the above handbook.

Remember that your familiar can use your own Intimidate ranks to demoralize opponents.

Almost forgot, swap Inspire Courage for Inspire Awe from Dragon Magic, trade Bardic Knowledge for Bardic Knack in PH2, and replace Countersong with Spellbreaker Song from CM.

Very nice, though may I ask where those two flaws are from?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Very nice, though may I ask where those two flaws are from?

Bravado is in Dragon 328, City Slicker is in Dragon 324.

[Aegis013]

Bravado is in Dragon 328, City Slicker is in Dragon 324.

Thank you.