Pathfinder: Enlarge Person question

[Caedes]

Hello all,

This may be a silly question and I may be over thinking it.

A half-orc is on avg. 6 ft - 6.5 ft tall. So enlarge person doubles his/her size. (12 - 13 ft)

So if they are in a 10 ft wide by 10 foot high hallway and get enlarged. Are they perfectly OK because they are a large charector and take a 10 foot space? Or do they have to make the opposing str check to the ceiling?

I may be over thinking this. I am rather tired.

Thanks in advance!!!

[Ravens_cry]

For simplification purposes, the orc should be fine. Orcs tend to be a bit hunched over anyway.

[KillingAScarab]

The spell description says the subject "may" make a strength check. That does not mean they must. The sample half-orc could stoop to be "constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it."

Alternatively, perhaps you would rather say the growth just stops? In 3.5, the Rules Compendium has a table of creature sizes with dimensions for heights of bipeds/body lengths of quadrupeds. The medium size category stops after 8 feet tall for bipeds, the large size category stops after 16. So in general, as long as the creature is over 8 feet but under 16, it counts as large. If Pathfinder has a table like this, I haven't found it just yet, but I only own the Core Rulebook. The Hypertext d20 SRD (again, for 3.5) has a similar table you can see here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreatu resInCombat).

[Keneth]

Pathfinder has one of those as well. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat/space-reach-threatened-area-templates)

[Jeraa]

His actual height doesn't matter. Its his space that does. As a large creature (when enlarged), he occupies a 10-foot cube, so as long as the ceiling is at least 10 feet high he is fine.


Pathfinder has one of those as well. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat/space-reach-threatened-area-templates)

Actually, no. Pathfinder doesn't have that table. (d20PFSRD adds in stuff that isn't actually in the books.) Pathfinders actual table only includes the creatures space and natural reach. Heights and weights aren't mentioned anywhere for the various sizes, as far as I know.

[Ashtagon]

His actual height doesn't matter. Its his space that does. As a large creature (when enlarged), he occupies a 10-foot cube, so as long as the ceiling is at least 10 feet high he is fine.

10-foot cube? i know the floor space is defined very carefully, but I've yet to see any official ruling on how much vertical space a creature occupies beyond an individual creature's "height", and a set of ranges for creature height/length by size category.

[Keneth]

Pathfinders actual table only includes the creatures space and natural reach.

You're right, I checked again and those values are taken from the 3.5 SRD. But general rules for physics that are not elaborated on in PF and can be found in 3.5 are generally assumed to hold true in both systems anyway.


10-foot cube? i know the floor space is defined very carefully, but I've yet to see any official ruling on how much vertical space a creature occupies beyond an individual creature's "height", and a set of ranges for creature height/length by size category.

Space is defined in cubes in 3D. A creature with a 10-foot space, occupies a 10-foot cube, regardless of whether it's tall or long. It even holds true for non-flying swarms, which is a bit weird, but that's what rule 0 is for. Actually, never mind that last part, having checked, a swarm specifically occupies a square if it's not flying.

[Ashtagon]

Space is defined in cubes in 3D. A creature with a 10-foot space, occupies a 10-foot cube, regardless of whether it's tall or long. It even holds true for non-flying swarms, which is a bit weird, but that's what rule 0 is for.

Cite? I've never seen spaces defined as anything other than squares. 3.x tends to use "5-foot-square" interchangeably with "space". And the section on 3d movement makes no reference to the vertical space occupied by a creature.

Edit: PRD refers specifically to squares too, with stuff such as "Large, Huge, Gargantuan, and Colossal Creatures: Very large creatures take up more than 1 square."

[Keneth]

Hrm, I felt like I've seen this ruling in pathfinder as well, but after a quick search it seems like it was only in 3.5, probably the FAQ or RC. To be fair, space is not defined as a square or a cube, but since the game assumes the battlefield is a 2D square grid, square is often used interchangeably with space as you've noted. For the sake of consistency, however, space is assumed to be a cube in 3D. Actual height shouldn't matter in 3D, much like actual length doesn't matter in 2D. Obviously this gets somewhat ridiculous, especially at larger sizes. A great wyrm red dragon still only occupies 30-foot space, even though it's probably closer to 100 feet, both in length and height. If you handle 3D space differently in your games, that's cool, but then you're stuck with the same shenanigans as in 3.0, where length and width weren't the same. :smallsmile:

[HyperInferno]

My group has always ruled it as creatures always occupy cubes unless stated otherwise. The main reason for this, is to make the threatened area make sense.

A creature can shift its weight around within its area, to reach their arms out and hit things. Shifting weight upwards doesn't work quite as well.

Similarly, a 6-foot tall human could easily smack something 5 feet away from him. He may have a bit of trouble hitting something 10-feet above the ground, but could (which would be the square directly above him, which his head pokes into). Hitting something 15-feet above the ground is not going to happen.

[KillingAScarab]

Similarly, a 6-foot tall human could easily smack something 5 feet away from him. He may have a bit of trouble hitting something 10-feet above the ground, but could (which would be the square directly above him, which his head pokes into). Hitting something 15-feet above the ground is not going to happen.You might be interested in the "Time Machine" section of the acrobatics page (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/acrobatics) on d20pfsrd.com. Not suggesting you change your group's rules, just that there's some basis in 3.5 for vertical reach which seems to support this. That covers grabbing ledges rather than swatting targets.

[HyperInferno]

You might be interested in the "Time Machine" section of the acrobatics page (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/acrobatics) on d20pfsrd.com. Not suggesting you change your group's rules, just that there's some basis in 3.5 for vertical reach which seems to support this. That covers grabbing ledges rather than swatting targets.

If anything that supports what I have been saying. At least for large and medium creatures.

Medium has a 8 ft vertical reach, add a weapon in hand and that lets you reach out to 10 ft. Minus out the 5 foot cube you occupy, and you have a reach of 5 feet above your cube. Makes it fit into my groups rules quite nicely.

Similarly. Large has a vertical reach of 16 ft, factor in bigger weapon size (since we used 2ft of weapon for medium, we would use 4 ft for large), and you get a reach of 20 ft. Subtract the 10ft tall cube the large creature occupies, and you get 10 ft of reach above your cube.

Although, admittedly, it falls apart for huge and above.