How to blow up a moon?

[Yogibear41]

So after our groups finishes up the current quests we are on(if we survive) I would like to switch my gaze to destroying a certain celestial body in the sky.

Now i'm not talking about the regular moon, but an evil red moon that appears in the sky for a few days several times a year.(the days are always the same and it follows a normal cycle wanning waxing full etc.)

Basically all I know about the moon is that it is a bad bad thing. On days when it is visible in the sky it has effects on certain evil creatures, and could potentially boost the powers of evil spell casters or have other similar effects.

The moon has appeared in the sky on the same days for as long as recorded history has been around, although certain elvish myths/legends (likely thousands of years old) tell of a time before the red moon was in the sky.


Now the reasons for me wanting to do this, I am currently playing a warlock who was born with his fiendish powers as well as horrific prophetic nightmares. He has spent his life trying to find a way to use his powers for good, despite fear and hatred from all especially those in his homeland( they tried to kill him after he saved his village :smallfrown:)

Due to his recent dealings with a paladin of a CG god he will now be going into the enlightened spirit prestige class next level. It seems he will finally be able to separate himself from the darkness he was born with, or at least be able to channel it with celestial power to use for good.

However, the red moon is a painful reminder of his birth every time it rises within the sky, you see this character happened to be born during one of the cycles of the red moon, when it was full, in the particular cycle on the particular day that is considered the most evil and foul.


So tell me playground, how do I turn my eldritch blast into a moon destruction ray? lol

[Kerilstrasz]

1st thing that comes to mind, is to ask your DM (by rolling an int check, a survival or knowledge nature?) if by any means that red moon is destroyed, what the enviromental consequences will be...
because you may actually think and believe that by destroying it, the world will be rid of those OP Evils Days, but actually you may cause a chain reaction of earthquakes and tsunami that will kill millions..

If in the end "destroying the moon" is not a good idea cause of the above, you may consider try a different approach, as to "hide" the moon of world view..

On days when it is visible in the sky it has effects on certain evil creatures, and could potentially boost the powers of evil spell casters or have other similar effects.
maybe gather enough power and wealth to hire wizards to research a invisibility spell that will render the hole moon invisible? maybe use the stronghold builders guidebook to build a (space)ship and "cover" the moon with something? (maybe lead line cloth)

on the other hand if there are no enviromental issues maybe i should let the rest playgrounders help you with this :smallsmile:

[Twilightwyrm]

Does it have to be your eldritch blast? The issue is, to the best of my knowledge, you cannot destroy more than probably about a 5ft./5ft. piece of an object at any given time with your EB. Even if you could increase this area, the process would still be difficult to the point of impossibility.
Unfortunately, as you are already a Warlock going into the Enlightened Spirit PrC, this makes things doubly difficult. Don't get me wrong, Enlightened Spirit isn't strictly a bad PrC, but it isn't particularly well geared for the destruction of celestial bodies. At best, it coupled with your Warlock levels will make use of the UMD skill much easier.
Let me ask you a quick question before proceeding though. Is the moon psionic/does it have any psionic component/is there any way for you to give is a psionic component? Because if so, you might be able to destroy it with the Annulus.

[MesiDoomstalker]

There was a thread like this a while back. I did some calculations and I don't remember specifics, but crafting 1 Round Self-Resetting Disintigrate Traps endlessly would take several millennia to destroy an object the size of our moon. Now granted, you could say its destroyed when you've dusted enough of its mass for it to implode or something, but thats a bit harder to calculate when it hits the critical implosion point.

Getting an Eldritch Blast high enough to one shot the moon? Not without some Epic Spell cheese.

[tyckspoon]

So tell me playground, how do I turn my eldritch blast into a moon destruction ray? lol

Well, it'll take a while, but: take the Blast Shape Eldritch Cone and the Essence Hammer Blast. Find a way to comfortably survive in the environment of that moon (the flight invocation and a Necklace of Adaptation would be a good start, probably.) Start firing Hammer Blast Cones at the surface. Assuming you're doing 11d6 or so with your Eldritch Blast (9d6 max Warlock progression + 2d6 from a Greater Chausuble of Fell Power), you'll do an average of 30.5 damage after Hardness over a 30-foot radius circle. Unhewn Rock has 900 HP per 5-foot thickness, so.. it'll only take you 30 rounds to chew out that first 5 foot worth of surface. It'll take a while to get through the whole thing, but hey, you're a Warlock, it's not like you run out of spells or anything. Although you might want to look into becoming a Necropolitan or something in case the time to destruction turns out to be larger than your remaining lifespan.

(The more time-efficient way to do this would be to get to Warlock 12 and use your ability to craft whatever magic item you feel like to replicate somebody else's mass-destruction tactic.)

[samuraijaques]

as your character, no, i do not think you could do it in any timely fashion. However, it can be done.

the hulking hurler could do it pretty easily. If you wanted you could take the leadership feat, make your cohort a hulking hurler, create an object massive enough to do millions of damage and have him throw it at the moon. you might have to use something like fly to get him into range of the moon because thrown weapons have a rather limited range. but it is theoretically possible and would only require the investment of one feat (a very good feat) and the materials required to give him flight and a massive object.

sorry if it isn't the answer you are looking for but it was all i could think of.

P.S. actually, you could fly him to the moon and then just have him throw it into space, teleporting him there with a high level teleport spell like teleport without error would get him there immediately, hell, you could even make a contingency spell to teleport him back afterwards.

[Arcanist]

... Well I don't think anyone else is going to suggest this, but have you considered Incantations?

[BoutsofInsanity]

Better, get a bunch of Clerics, teleport to the moon, and consecrate the whole thing into holy land.

[Yogibear41]

No it doesn't have to be eldritch blast, any way that isn't considered cheese and actually makes since is a viable strategy.


For magical means of transforming the moon into something else, in the past when using magic to over write magic or using magic on something already magical the DM uses caster level checks, so in order to sanctify the moon the caster level check would probably be astronomical considering the person that had the power to make the moon was probably obscenely powerful too.

But I still like that kinda of thinking keep it coming :smallsmile:


And what were Incantations again? I can't seem to remeber them off the top of my head (some form of magic obviously)


As far as the time to do something I would prefer a few years time so the rest of the group doesn't feel like im hogging their entire life times lol

I have at least 300 or so years of life time maybe even 400 if I keep myself fit I'm a dwarf.

[gurgleflep]

"That's no moon. It's a space station." - Obi-Wan

Sorry, it had to be done.
In all seriousness though, I've no clue how to help.. I'm curious on if it can be done though and I'm reading everything.

[TuggyNE]

Well, a DFA can do this by stacking metabreaths indefinitely to hit the whole moon and lingering damage it into oblivion. Just a mite cheesy, though. :smalltongue:

Incantations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm) are from UA.

Edit:
"That's no moon. It's a space station." - Obi-Wan

I find your lack of creative references disturbing.

[Yogibear41]

If it can be put up there im positive it can be taken down, the biggest thing I probably need is more information about it, which will be a difficult task all on its own.

[dascarletm]

Have you tried the peasant railgun? (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Peasant_Railgun)

[Rubik]

Find a way to create a massive sheet of paper/parchment/other writing surface (including another moon) in space, and cast an Explosive Spell Explosive Runes spell on it. Make the writing surface large enough that you can see it from the moon from a few hundred thousand miles away, and unfurl it in the sky. The range on Explosive Runes is based on how far away you can see it, so whenever someone looks at it it will explode, and Explosive Spell means it will continue dealing damage until it moves out of sight...which is several hundreds of thousands of miles. And this damage is dealt to every 5' cube on the moon.

Voila. That should be enough to destroy pretty much anything.

Can you turn it into a construct before Plane Shifting it into Limbo?

[Yogibear41]

Have you tried the peasant railgun? (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Peasant_Railgun)

We actually joke about that fairly often while playing.

[Silva Stormrage]

The best option is to get beholders to disintegrate it for you. Try to dominate them and have them just disintegrate the moon with their eye beams. It will take a ludicrous amount of time though. I think some demons have at will disintegrate as well, planar binding them on the moon and have them disintegrate the moon? Not sure what to do about air for them though.

[The Grue]

Have you tried the peasant railgun? (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Peasant_Railgun)


We actually joke about that fairly often while playing.

Unfortunately, while the peasant railgun is an interesting experiment in whether your DM is paying attention...


... Even if they do manage to pass it forward there's one other problem: an improvised thrown weapon has -4 to-hit, -4 to-hit for using a 2h weapon with 1h, and -2 per range increment, and impossible to throw beyond 50ft.

...it is not applicable to this scenario. :smallbiggrin:

Now, I don't know about going all-in and destroying a moon, except by means of a carefully worded Wish spell, but might it be possible instead to move it to another plane? There's the old trick of casting Gate on a Sphere of Annihilation but that would only blow out a 100-meter sphere and I don't think the resulting spatial rift is permanent.

[TuggyNE]

I wonder if there's a way to make a Von Neumann construct. Have it separate a chunk of the moon, animate it into a copy, and so on and so forth. When the whole thing has been turned into constructs, you can either have them all gate to the Plane of Fire, or just use them as an army or something.

[Tvtyrant]

Open a Gate to the surface of a star? The opening would fire out a giant cone of fire capable of destroying anything, so just make it fire only at the moon and vaporize it! Do not fire from the planet of course, or the atmosphere will burn.

[The Grue]

Open a Gate to the surface of a star? The opening would fire out a giant cone of fire capable of destroying anything, so just make it fire only at the moon and vaporize it! Do not fire from the planet of course, or the atmosphere will burn.

You can't open a Gate between two locations on the same plane. A Teleportation Circle might work though.

EDIT: No, wait, it wouldn't. Creatures only.

Hm...what if you made use of two Gates? One from your firing point to a demiplane of your creation, and another, precisely in line with the first, from the demiplane to the surface(or, hell, why not the core) of a star.

[Sith_Happens]

There's the old trick of casting Gate on a Sphere of Annihilation but that would only blow out a 100-meter sphere and I don't think the resulting spatial rift is permanent.

Or you could just direct the sphere into and through the moon until it gets to the center, at which point the surrounding matter will keep falling into it until the whole moon is gone.

[Flame of Anor]

Or maybe open a Gate between the moon and the Plane of Black Holes?


On the other hand, what about a Drunken Master? If you can figure out a way for a Drunken Master to use the moon as an improvised weapon (details, details), then it will "break apart and become useless" the first time he rolls a natural 1.

[The Grue]

Or you could just direct the sphere into and through the moon until it gets to the center, at which point the surrounding matter will keep falling into it until the whole moon is gone.

This makes some assumptions about the physical structure of the red moon in question, namely that it is loose like sand or gravel and not, in fact, a mass of rock/metal that gets progressively denser and more rigid due to pressure the deeper it goes.

Also you might run into range issues with controlling the sphere. Now, if you could somehow get the sphere to obey gravity instead of just floating, you could drop it from a sufficient height and use the moon's rotation to punch a series of holes clean through...

Ultimately, any method we come up with for destroying the moon seems to me to be crude. Surely there's a more elegant solution...

[Clovis]

As a warlock you'll need the assistance of a dragon: http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/618/. This event begins a few comics ahead...

[Jeff the Green]

Get your CL up to 32, cast animate objects on it. Boom, it moves under its own power at your direction.

[The Grue]

Get your CL up to 32, cast animate objects on it. Boom, it moves under its own power at your direction.

Hah. I think a moon is a bit beyond Colossal size, but RAW maybe not!

If you can manage that, get it moving up to solar escape velocity and send it hurling through interstellar space!

Or just be unimaginative and ram it into the sun.

[Sith_Happens]

This makes some assumptions about the physical structure of the red moon in question, namely that it is loose like sand or gravel and not, in fact, a mass of rock/metal that gets progressively denser and more rigid due to pressure the deeper it goes.

Considering that the reason things get progressively denser and more rigid the deeper you go is because of the pressure from the stuff above it, I'm pretty sure that same pressure would be enough to quickly fill in any cavity that should suddenly appear.

[Cleisthenes]

Considering that the reason things get progressively denser and more rigid the deeper you go is because of the pressure from the stuff above it, I'm pretty sure that same pressure would be enough to quickly fill in any cavity that should suddenly appear.

Does a Sphere of Annihilation have mass?

That is, does it produce a gravitational pull such that the surrounding layers of rock would actually be drawn in? Pressure's a product of force, which in this case would be gravity.

If the core is missing, the only way rock would "fall" would be if the other half of the moon had a stronger pull than the rock's own side, yeah? And that's assuming the rock is loose.

I must confess, I've little experience dealing with "falling" due to a hollow core.

[Osiris]

Figured out an idea, although a bit silly. :smallsigh: Hey I heard that!

You pay an Archmage to cast meteor swarm, at an Enlarged range, while holding his Greater Chain Metamagic Rod!

Wait, it's red right? first send a fireball to test for fire immunity

[Arcanist]

Figured out an idea, although a bit silly. :smallsigh: Hey I heard that!

You pay an Archmage to cast meteor swarm, at an Enlarged range, while holding his Greater Chain Metamagic Rod!

Wait, it's red right? first send a fireball to test for fire immunity

... I... I want this to work :smallconfused:

[Osiris]

Yeah, it MAY not work, but I have a GREAT idea! It even ties in with Eldritch Disciple! Use a wand of HOLY Word, and watch the moon recoil as half its body is cut off by celestial force! :smallbiggrin: Did that make sense?!

[Jeff the Green]

Yeah, it MAY not work, but I have a GREAT idea! It even ties in with Eldritch Disciple! Use a wand of HOLY Word, and watch the moon recoil as half its body is cut off by celestial force! :smallbiggrin: Did that make sense?!

No. For one, the moon's not a creature. For two, where'd you get that "half its body cut off" bit?

[Doorhandle]

So tell me playground, how do I turn my eldritch blast into a moon destruction ray? lol

Glare at it, then scream out "MOOOOOON!" and blow it the crap up with one eldritch blast. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7KWykbYNqs)

More seriously, I think there was a section on this very forum on planetary destruction. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227513)

For my own two cents, I think two options could work.

1) Do research until you can figure out why the moon first rose, and if there is any condition of the curse that can be lifted. Then proceed to lift said curse.
2) Cover it in antimagic fields. If the magic can't reach earth, it's evil cannot affect it.

[Darrin]

Find a way to create a massive sheet of paper/parchment/other writing surface (including another moon) in space, and cast an Explosive Spell Explosive Runes spell on it. Make the writing surface large enough that you can see it from the moon from a few hundred thousand miles away, and unfurl it in the sky. The range on Explosive Runes is based on how far away you can see it, so whenever someone looks at it it will explode, and Explosive Spell means it will continue dealing damage until it moves out of sight...which is several hundreds of thousands of miles. And this damage is dealt to every 5' cube on the moon.

So... paper beats rock!

(Look out for lizard, though...)

[Talya]

http://theylaughedatjulesverne.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/the-death-star.jpeg

[13_CBS]

Erm...is it actually possible to blow up a planet without cheese in 3.5? The game wasn't exactly designed for destroying planets short of using cinematic methods dictated by the DM...

[The Grue]

The elemental plane of water is filled with, well, water isn't it?

Can the portal created by a Gate spell move inanimate matter?

If it can, you could set up a system of gates that pass water from the plane of water to the plane of fire, where it is heated and vaporized, and from there to a corresponding gate on the moon in line with its direction of motion. In essence, you have a crude steam rocket.

Make a bunch of those and slowly nudge the moon out of its orbit. :smallcool:

This assumes the red moon is tidally locked to its parent, like our own moon. If it isn't, you first need to find a way to match its rotation to its orbital period.

[Telonius]

Red indicates iron deposits, correct?

I'm thinking swarm of rust monsters.

[Talya]

Some of these simply will not work. I apologize in advance to the many catgirls, but here, allow this to explain the principles:

http://qntm.org/destroy

[Arranis Thelmos]

Posted for relevance:
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Tassadar/123/image.jpg

In all seriousness, there was once a thread around here that talked about interesting ways to destroy the world, and playing a hulking hurler who threw the earth into the moon was one of the options. Perchance would anyone be able to find the link?

[ben-zayb]

Hire/Be a L9 Wizard
Step 1: Teleport wizard somewhere within medium range of the moon
Step 2: Wizard casts Rockburst (from Shining South splat book; google it if you want, since it's not OGL)
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!

[Telonius]

Well, there is the Material Component method. Use the moon as a material component of a spell; it's annihilated in the casting. You could destroy the earth through this method, using the Flesh to Stone spell. (Beware of flying DMGs if you ever attempt this in practice).

[Rubik]

Become the princess of the night. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KafNXjIh4MU)

[MesiDoomstalker]

Glare at it, then scream out "MOOOOOON!" and blow it the crap up with one eldritch blast. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7KWykbYNqs)

More seriously, I think there was a section on this very forum on planetary destruction. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227513)

For my own two cents, I think two options could work.

1) Do research until you can figure out why the moon first rose, and if there is any condition of the curse that can be lifted. Then proceed to lift said curse.
2) Cover it in antimagic fields. If the magic can't reach earth, it's evil cannot affect it.

Problem with 2: Antimagic Fields don't block line of effect. If there was an AMF between me and you, but neither of us were inside it, I could fire a Disintegrate at you. It would hit one side of the field, and then pop back in on the other, hitting you no problem (assuming I hit your Touch AC). As All you would do is make the moon's surface less evilly magical than the planet.


The elemental plane of water is filled with, well, water isn't it?

Can the portal created by a Gate spell move inanimate matter?

If it can, you could set up a system of gates that pass water from the plane of water to the plane of fire, where it is heated and vaporized, and from there to a corresponding gate on the moon in line with its direction of motion. In essence, you have a crude steam rocket.

Make a bunch of those and slowly nudge the moon out of its orbit. :smallcool:

This assumes the red moon is tidally locked to its parent, like our own moon. If it isn't, you first need to find a way to match its rotation to its orbital period.

This wouldn't work. A Gate is not a physical construct, its an interplanatry hole. It has no mass, nor matter. You'd have to direct the Gate towards the moon, so the explelling steam pushes on the moon. Also: you'd need to have a ring of gates surroudning the moons entire orbit, otherwise the effect would not be noticed. Also it would take a long time to knock it out of orbit and you'd need to do a new set of Gates periodically once the moon was pushed out far enough the old Gates don't push it appreciably anymore.

[Zero grim]

Dammit every idea I had at first someone else has already come up with.

SO besides Gate/Sphere of annihilation/Incantations/Plot what can we do to destroy a moon?

well there's wish and miracle but that's a bit cheesy, what you really need is the following.

Step One: permanent teleportation circle targeted at the moon.
Step Two: As many zombie miners as you can find.
Step Three: ?????
Step Four: Profit

Or perhaps you could just get a hulking hurler to throw it away? (I have no idea how hulking hurlers work even without cheese so somebody who does will need to figure this one out)

[Otomodachi]

The only thing I have to add is that, if you come up with a plan, and then tell the GM your plan and that your character will now enact it...

If he looks at you with a small smile and asks "Are you sure?" DON'T DO IT!!!!!

[Yogibear41]

If he looks at you with a small smile and asks "Are you sure?" DON'T DO IT!!!!!

Its like you know him....

[Lapak]

Does a Sphere of Annihilation have mass?

That is, does it produce a gravitational pull such that the surrounding layers of rock would actually be drawn in? Pressure's a product of force, which in this case would be gravity.

If the core is missing, the only way rock would "fall" would be if the other half of the moon had a stronger pull than the rock's own side, yeah? And that's assuming the rock is loose.

I must confess, I've little experience dealing with "falling" due to a hollow core.That's not quite how it works. It's not that the rocks right there would 'fall' into the hole - although they would, if they were loose, because removing a perfect sphere from the center of a larger sphere with uniform mass doesn't change the center of gravity at all - but rather the pressure of the umpty-billion tons of rock between the center and the surface, all of which is being pulled towards that center of gravity.

A sphere (read: omnidirectional arch) is actually a pretty good shape to withstand pressure, but even so... long story short, unless the core material is essentially indestructible it'll collapse inward.

Of course, since the max range of control for a Sphere of Annihilation is 40 ft. + 10 ft. / character level, there no way to push a Sphere that far down anyway.

[Sith_Happens]

Of course, since the max range of control for a Sphere of Annihilation is 40 ft. + 10 ft. / character level, there no way to push a Sphere that far down anyway.

Sure there is, you just have to have some way to survive following it all the way down.

[The Grue]

This wouldn't work. A Gate is not a physical construct, its an interplanatry hole. It has no mass, nor matter. You'd have to direct the Gate towards the moon, so the explelling steam pushes on the moon. Also: you'd need to have a ring of gates surroudning the moons entire orbit, otherwise the effect would not be noticed. Also it would take a long time to knock it out of orbit and you'd need to do a new set of Gates periodically once the moon was pushed out far enough the old Gates don't push it appreciably anymore.

Are you suggesting that when a caster creates a Gate on the surface of, say, Golarion, that gate does not remain in a fixed location relative to the surface of the planet as it follows its orbit around its parent star?

[Sith_Happens]

Are you suggesting that when a caster creates a Gate on the surface of, say, Golarion, that gate does not remain in a fixed location relative to the surface of the planet as it follows its orbit around its parent star?

If not, then I have a new suggestion for the OP. It involves Immovable Rods and Walls of Force...

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hire/Be a L9 Wizard
Step 1: Teleport wizard somewhere within medium range of the moon
Step 2: Wizard casts Rockburst (from Shining South splat book; google it if you want, since it's not OGL)
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!
Huh? Google, google, google... :smalleek: That (http://dndtools.eu/spells/shining-south--25/rockburst--3277/)... may be the single worst-written spell I've ever seen. By pure RAW... that would work. No sane GM would allow that spell to exist, but, RAW...

[Nettlekid]

There are a lot of good ideas here. I second the "Use it as a material component" method, though I don't know what spell would work best for that.

I like spells that have the effect "One Object", no other limiters given. The moon is an object. G'Elsewhere Chant could teleport it 100 ft. I don't know how much good that would do, but it's a start. Self-resetting trap of G'Elsewhere Chant on the moon's surface, warping it away?

Also, the moon is flying through space, right? So it's moving? Place a Wall of Force in space in its flight path. Wall of Force won't move, so the moon will smash into the Wall and probably carve out a huge amount before either plowing through (leaving a Wall of Force-shaped hole) or coming to a standstill.

[The Grue]

Also, the moon is flying through space, right? So it's moving? Place a Wall of Force in space in its flight path. Wall of Force won't move, so the moon will smash into the Wall and probably carve out a huge amount before either plowing through (leaving a Wall of Force-shaped hole) or coming to a standstill.

Same problem I mentioned above: if a wall of force "doesn't move", then when you cast Wall of Force on the surface of a planet it doesn't follow the surface of that planet along its orbital path. This is clearly not the case.

This is a huge stumbling point for a lot of people with regards to astronomy, but everything is moving, always, even if it appears to be standing still.

Also, there's no way to make an object cease its orbit and stop moving. An object in orbit is actually falling towards its parent, but it's moving so fast it keeps missing. Slow it down and it just crashes into the parent.

[Nameless Ghost]

Turn Giant Soldier of Stone to attack position and...
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121111020606/yugioh/images/thumb/c/c0/AttacktheMoon-ABYR-EN-SR-1E.png/300px-AttacktheMoon-ABYR-EN-SR-1E.png
(Yes, this is a real card)
Apologies that I have nothing constructive to add to this thread.

[Nettlekid]

Same problem I mentioned above: if a wall of force "doesn't move", then when you cast Wall of Force on the surface of a planet it doesn't follow the surface of that planet along its orbital path. This is clearly not the case.

This is a huge stumbling point for a lot of people with regards to astronomy, but everything is moving, always, even if it appears to be standing still.

>_> I know that planets are always moving, and anything that appears to be stationary in our frame of reference is still moving at thousands of kilometers a second. However, if items like an Immovable Rod or spells like Wall of Force work, such as to be unmovable and yet not shoot off into the distance, then clearly they are in fact moving at the exact speed of the Material Plane and cannot be altered from that course. But if a Colossal+ Epic Great Wyrm Gold Dragon can't budge a Wall of Force by slamming into it, neither can the moon, so it works for our purposes. Unless you want to suggest that the Wall of Force is stationary relative to the largest body near it, which would look funny if you cast it in space and watched it hurtle across the sky.

I'm also a fan of destroying the moon with itself. What if you cast Stone Shape to make a big spike on the moon, or maybe craft a huge long lance out of Adamantine and stick it on the moon. Then, get a pair of Ring Gates. Hold one Ring Gate in front of the giant spike, and the other just next to the first, so that the spike passes through the gate and the full force of the moon's momentum skewers the moon with its own spike.

Ooh, what if you cast Polymorph Any Object and transmuted 1700 cubic feet (about 48 cubic meters) of the moon into like, uranium. Or one of those big explosive elements that goes super critical when there's enough of it. That should do the trick.

[Jeff the Green]

Same problem I mentioned above: if a wall of force "doesn't move", then when you cast Wall of Force on the surface of a planet it doesn't follow the surface of that planet along its orbital path. This is clearly not the case.

This is a huge stumbling point for a lot of people with regards to astronomy, but everything is moving, always, even if it appears to be standing still.

Also, there's no way to make an object cease its orbit and stop moving. An object in orbit is actually falling towards its parent, but it's moving so fast it keeps missing. Slow it down and it just crashes into the parent.

The thing is that according to relativity there's nothing to say which frame of reference is the correct one. It's best to assume that the planet is the frame of reference, so the wall of force stays still relative to it.

[kiryoku]

OR just saying you could research the moon in character. o-o and OOC ask your DM to make it into your next adventure. I mean Hulk smash isn't the only answer. XD you could have this epic quest to get Items of power to purify it and make it give good creatures powers instead of the evil ones. o-o or just make it a normal moon. really thats up to what your DM is okay with. This would be far more fun then just blowing it up. with the upside of not killing millions of people on said planet as the tidle waves drown the coast line and low laying land. Not to mention a good bunch of the fault lines going off from the sudden shift in tectonic pressure. the moon pushes and pulls on the planet even it just leaving might cause all of this to happen. so really the only truely safe way is to find a way to make it normal or shift it to good, If you can shift it to good you would be heros among heros responsible for the births of truly great heros of good. Just a Idea and I think a interesting one tell me what you think. If that doesn't make people like your character nothing will. The moon changing might also change your character as well seeing as his "evil" or "taint" si from said moon to begain with.

[Illarion]

Another point to consider beyond the possible repercussions to your planet by destroying the moon/planet or whatever we are calling it now is the impacts it may have on other planets near its ellipsoid orbit and whatever body it revolves around. By destroying this mass, you would be off setting the gravitational balance it has created with other masses in the system. The debris, which now has much lower individual mass could in turn rain down on your planet due to its pull on the debris causing the power from the moon to be emanated directly to your planet, instead of being separated by thousands of miles. That or chucks could maintain an orbit directly around your planet.

Also, you do not know what kind of mystical impacts the moon has on other planets. There could be a planet that needs the moon to survive.

[Sith_Happens]

Turn Giant Soldier of Stone to attack position and...
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121111020606/yugioh/images/thumb/c/c0/AttacktheMoon-ABYR-EN-SR-1E.png/300px-AttacktheMoon-ABYR-EN-SR-1E.png
(Yes, this is a real card)
Apologies that I have nothing constructive to add to this thread.

Huh, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that they actually made that into a card at some point. Have any other of the "screw the rules, I have Rule of Cool" moments from that arc received the same treatment?


This would be far more fun then just blowing it up.

Debatable.:smallwink:

[The Grue]

Unless you want to suggest that the Wall of Force is stationary relative to the largest body near it, which would look funny if you cast it in space and watched it hurtle across the sky.

You'd need a telescope to see it at any distance where the body of dominant gravitational attraction was not the planet you're standing on, but yes that would be my interpretation of what a Wall of Force or Immovable Rod is stationary relative to. The alternative is that those things only function on whatever is the default starting planet for your setting; not a big deal in FR, sure, but it has immense implications for the Pathfinder campaign setting, namely that said Walls and Rods only function properly on Golarion and nowhere else in the universe.

What's to say that a wall of force following a path through space when seen from the surface of a planet looks any funnier than a wall of force circling the center of a planet when seen from space? Either way you have to define a frame of reference that the wall "doesn't move" relative to, and either way there's another frame of reference where it does move. Why is one less acceptable than the other?

[Flame of Anor]

You pay an Archmage to cast meteor swarm, at an Enlarged range, while holding his Greater Chain Metamagic Rod!

Why would that work? I'm not familiar with this particular brand of cheese.

[Nettlekid]

You'd need a telescope to see it at any distance where the body of dominant gravitational attraction was not the planet you're standing on, but yes that would be my interpretation of what a Wall of Force or Immovable Rod is stationary relative to. The alternative is that those things only function on whatever is the default starting planet for your setting; not a big deal in FR, sure, but it has immense implications for the Pathfinder campaign setting, namely that said Walls and Rods only function properly on Golarion and nowhere else in the universe.

What's to say that a wall of force following a path through space when seen from the surface of a planet looks any funnier than a wall of force circling the center of a planet when seen from space? Either way you have to define a frame of reference that the wall "doesn't move" relative to, and either way there's another frame of reference where it does move. Why is one less acceptable than the other?

Because they're magic. Magic works however its creator wants it to. Perhaps the creator built in a failsafe in any spell or device which works by being stationary, which locks onto the largest or most densely populated or spiritually strongest body in the vicinity (calculated by an extensive mathematical formula comparing population density to matter density over the radius squared from the spell/item in question) and synchronizes its plano-stationary orbit in accordance with the calculated "most significant cosmic body" in question. This could have interesting applications on the dual plane of Bytopia if one half moves differently than the other, or on a plane without a proper base like some of the layers of Acheron. Maybe a Wall of Force on a cube in Acheron is stationary relative to the cube until another, larger cube comes along, at which point the Wall begins moving with that cube. But probably not. It can be as irrational and illogical as you want, because MAGIC did it. As to the "funnier" thing, I would say that a square surface of wall shooting around in orbit looks a lot funnier than a square surface of wall attached to a planet, slowly rotating as the planet does. Pretty much anything moving at high speed through space is pretty funny, if it looks like it wasn't meant to be there originally. Giant rock through space? Meh. Chicken Infested Peasant with a Necklace of Adaptation through space? Hilarious.

[Yogibear41]

I doubt rockburst would work, as its most definently a magical rock, and considering its a moon its fortitude save is probably at least +100 lol

As far as side effects on the environment for destroying it I don't believe there will be any, as the moon is not present in the sky for the majority of the year, it only appears for a week or 2, 3 times out of the year with the most evil of the 3 being in december. It appears and then vanishes without a trace, this has been going on for thousands of years. When it appears and vanishes no apparent environmental changes happen, at least from what I have observed.

[kiryoku]

Okay well still the rock chunks slamming into the side of the planet would do some of the same thing along with making it look like a warzone from the impact damage. I think what we are trying to say is there is always a safer although slightly slower way of removing it. IF it acts like that maybe its a planet wide curse or maybe its some kind of invasion plan. Hell is sending it to slowly convert more and more people to evil so it can invade with help from the material plane. I mean there are just so many options for your DM to use. Like a few of us have said though blowing it up has issues and might not even stop it if its a magic affect and not a actual moon. It will just keep coming back until you stop whats sending it there in the first place because this does seem fairly short in its time there. sounds like a high level spell that spreads evil almost instead of anything natural. you would think the world would have started work on getting ride of it at the least.

Edit: we need more info your not really giving use enough to go on. If its a magic affect we would take different actions then if it was a actual "natural event". There are too many unsaid factors to really give you one straight up answer on this.

[rollforeigninit]

Has no one suggested the #1 most obvious trick. Sadly you have to blow 2 feats to get there.

It sums up in 3 words.

IRON HEART SURGE!!!!

You might have to get to where the moon is effecting you first.
Then you can destroy it as an Immediate.

[Quiddle]

Darn, I was going to suggest that.

If you can get a scroll or cast polymorph any object you can make your self into a black hole and gobble up a decent amount of existence before turning back an hour later. Then the moon would be gone.

[Grod_The_Giant]

As far as side effects on the environment for destroying it I don't believe there will be any, as the moon is not present in the sky for the majority of the year, it only appears for a week or 2, 3 times out of the year with the most evil of the 3 being in december. It appears and then vanishes without a trace, this has been going on for thousands of years. When it appears and vanishes no apparent environmental changes happen, at least from what I have observed.
This makes me want to discount any sort of physics-based tactics, such as pushing it out of orbit with walls of force. It sounds more like a plot device than an orbiting body, so... yeah.

[Phelix-Mu]

I would suggest a more creative approach.

The problem: The appearance of the evil moon in the sky for several nights of the year enhances evil.

Solutions:

1.) Begin research on the anti-evil moon, a good-aligned version that will exactly counter the powers of the evil moon. This has a few benefits, mostly being that you don't have to interact directly with the evil moon and whatever defends it (I'm guessing there is something). Or at least not until you are quite high level. This is also a creative act, something that should appeal to the patrons of the OP's newly redeemed warlock, as opposed to solving problems with explosions, which is pretty standard evil warlock shtick.

2.) Sanctify the evil moon. Someone already suggested this. It's a good idea. Rise through the celestial ranks and move your new battalion of eladrins to the moon, and start sowing the ground with holy water or whatever. Create a new branch of the River Oceanus and flood the moon with celestial waters to block LoE.

3.) Move to the evil moon, and turn it into your mobile battle platform. Use the beholders concept to hollow out a strategic command center, and psychic reformation some simulacra of celestials to have Mountain Hammer, and redecorate said moon. Arm it with whatever variety of death ray suits the style of the campaign.

I hope you find an interesting way to do this.

P.S.- I think there is fair evidence that the crystal spheres and such in D&D don't operate like normal planets irl. Verisimilitude can be achieved while not perfectly replicating things like the Law of Gravity and such. Movement of planets through space and non-movement of things like wall of force, immovable rods, and gate can be quite problematic. In the end, it's a matter of the DM needing to "not give stats for things that can't be killed," in the manner of stats for gods. If you don't want the player characters to use physics to destroy x or y, then don't nail down exactly how this stuff works.

[Zanfire]

any of the nth degreed cl tricks and Reverse Gravity? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reverseGravity.htm) w/o the pull of the earth its tangential velocity would launch it into space, its not destroyed, but its gone

[avr]

If blocking it from view would suffice, find a source of movie gremlins and teleport a few to this moon. A gate to the plane of elemental water may also be necessary.

Variations on this plan may involve tribbles.

[Rubik]

If blocking it from view would suffice, find a source of movie gremlins and teleport a few to this moon. A gate to the plane of elemental water may also be necessary.

Variations on this plan may involve tribbles.Or post-Twilight parasprites.

[Sith_Happens]

Has no one suggested the #1 most obvious trick. Sadly you have to blow 2 feats to get there.

It sums up in 3 words.

IRON HEART SURGE!!!!

You might have to get to where the moon is effecting you first.
Then you can destroy it as an Immediate.

Iron Heart Surge is a standard action, actually.:smalltongue:

(The moon "affecting" him is easy, since his Warlock powers came from being born at its zenith.)

[TuggyNE]

(The moon "affecting" him is easy, since his Warlock powers came from being born at its zenith.)

Hmm, interesting problem: what happens if you succeed? Do you lose your shiny powers? That would be annoying, to say the least.

[graymachine]

As a DM, and assuming we want to avoid cheese as much as possible, I really wouldn't allow a solution shy of Epic Magic.

[maximus25]

Could you not shatter the moon?

[Scow2]

Same problem I mentioned above: if a wall of force "doesn't move", then when you cast Wall of Force on the surface of a planet it doesn't follow the surface of that planet along its orbital path. This is clearly not the case.

This is a huge stumbling point for a lot of people with regards to astronomy, but everything is moving, always, even if it appears to be standing still.

Also, there's no way to make an object cease its orbit and stop moving. An object in orbit is actually falling towards its parent, but it's moving so fast it keeps missing. Slow it down and it just crashes into the parent.
So Wall of Force it in place to keep it from falling.

D&D uses a Geocentric model of the world, with the frame of reference for all objects moving in it being the Material Plane(t). CLANG! Shenanigans should work just fine.


Of course, given standard fantasy cosmology, the Moon is not in fact just a physical object, but Another Plane adrift on the Astral Plane/Sea. In fact, it's probably some ******* wizard's Demiplane. Seriously - Astronomy in D&D involves planes and planar travel, not great nothingness' and rocketships.

[Green Leviathan]

If the moon only works when it's visible, who really made their spot check to see it :smalltongue:

[Yogibear41]

Hmm, interesting problem: what happens if you succeed? Do you lose your shiny powers? That would be annoying, to say the least.

I doubt it, as I just wrote that into my backstory because I thought it would be an interesting way to explain a dwarven child born with powers that haven't be around for a long time.

[FleshrakerAbuse]

Hey, isn't this moon one of those elder evils thingies?
That would explain the evil influence.

Or maybe... Majora is back...

[angry_bear]

Are you sure it's a moon and not like, a World Egg, or Erynthul's left nut or something? Trying to destroy it could cause a lot of problems... It's entirely possible that it's some kind of prison for an evil entity who's power could only be suppressed so much.

Could shrinking it down work? I don't have my books on hand right now, but I think that there are a few spells that allow you to shrink inanimate objects. Just an idea.

[SSGoW]

Are you sure it's a moon and not like, a World Egg, or Erynthul's left nut or something? .

Yeah... I just found the plot of my next game.

[Talderas]

Are you sure it's a moon and not like, a World Egg, or Erynthul's left nut or something?

Why does it have to be his left one? Why can't it be his center one?

[angry_bear]

Yeah... I just found the plot of my next game.

...You're welcome.

[Preaplanes]

Try Gate fishing for deities, hope one that'll help is willing to bite. Best I can think of personally.

Oh, if the moon is a creature somehow, the epic spell Nailed to the Sky would be perfect if you can do it, if it's more a matter of keeping the moon from blowing other things up.

[Forrestfire]

I'd like to echo the "find a way in-character" ideas, but a fairly simple way to destroy the moon is this:

1) Make a self-resetting trap of Time Stop (76,500gp iirc)
2) Get a spammable magic item of disintegrate, or a warforged spellcaster who is willing to cast it over and over for subjective millennia.
3) Get a contruct to activate both items for subjective millennia (unnecessary if you got a spellcaster for the previous step)
4) Teleport these to the moon, activate trap of time stop, watch moon disappear faster than you can blink.

Because of the way Time Stop works (speeding you up as opposed to actually stopping time), there is nothing to indicate that it shouldn't stack. In this case, you have the construct having the trap cast a time stop on him in the first round of each time stop, then walking around casting his disintegrate over and over again.

Because of the way nested time stops work, once he destroys the moon, he'd want to get rid of the trap, teleport back to the planet, and then wait a long time for the loops to wear off.

[maximus25]

I'd like to echo the "find a way in-character" ideas, but a fairly simple way to destroy the moon is this:

1) Make a self-resetting trap of Time Stop (76,500gp iirc)
2) Get a spammable magic item of disintegrate, or a warforged spellcaster who is willing to cast it over and over for subjective millennia.
3) Get a contruct to activate both items for subjective millennia (unnecessary if you got a spellcaster for the previous step)
4) Teleport these to the moon, activate trap of time stop, watch moon disappear faster than you can blink.

Because of the way Time Stop works (speeding you up as opposed to actually stopping time), there is nothing to indicate that it shouldn't stack. In this case, you have the construct having the trap cast a time stop on him in the first round of each time stop, then walking around casting his disintegrate over and over again.

Because of the way nested time stops work, once he destroys the moon, he'd want to get rid of the trap, teleport back to the planet, and then wait a long time for the loops to wear off.

But Time Stop does stop time. That's why you can't affect people while you're Time Stopped, they're frozen in time.

Haste is the one that actually speeds you up.

[Forrestfire]

Time Stop (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm)


This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds.

[DaedalusMkV]

Step 1: Tunnel to the core of the moon in question by any method you deem appropriate. Zombie miners, Disintegrate castings, Shapechanging into an Earth Elemental, whatever.

Step 2: Cast Major Creation to create 15 or so cubic feet of Antimatter. Doesn't really matter which element you go for, but denser elements like Anti-Lead or Anti-Osmium give you the most bang for your buck.

Step 3: Watch as the better part of ten tonnes of Antimatter annihilates. 512,000 gigatons, baby!

Step 4: Oops, you probably just rained moon-chunks down on your planet.

Step 5: Profit? Also, horrible ecological repurcussions.



There is no problem so large that it can't be destroyed using Major Creation!

(Note: Attempting to use Major Creation to generate Antimatter is liable to get you a physics textbook to the head. They're pretty heavy. You don't want that...)

[Yogibear41]

Got some new information on the red moon,

It was placed on the sky roughly 17,200 years ago on a specific day in april or august, (left the sheet I had it written on at DMs house)

The moon was placed in the sky, by an evil god whos name the person telling me this would dare not speak.

The evil god is apparently a god foreign to this plane who just likes to poke his head in from time to time to screw with things cuz hes evil.

He is vastly more powerful than any other god that is native to this plane.

Several good gods from our plane of existence banned together to trap him or something details are sketchy, but he is most certainly not dead.

People fear that every 600 years or so (do to special astronomical alignements and such) that he could return to our plane to do devestatingly bad things.

The next date for these 600 years is roughly 190 years away, (my dwarf character would be around 210 if he manages to stay alive that long)

I learned that basically someone would have to let him out of his prison, and potential people to do such a thing would be mortals seeking power, end of the world cults, etc. bad people.


In order to save time for the rest of our group I told the DM I would just email him some questions I asked this one person that has a wealth of knowledge without having to sit there for a long time and waiste other players times. So I have the opportunity to ask more questions but its probably going to be a one time deal, because we are no longer in the place that this person of wisdom is in.

[Gildedragon]

Animate the moon; make an ice assassin moon: now you get OP good days?

[Rubik]

Animate the moon; make an ice assassin moon: now you get OP good days?You'll have to either Mind Rape the moon into being Good or hope it fails its save against a (very large) helmet of opposite alignment.

[Emperor Tippy]

What level are you, what kind of resources do you have access to, what kind of time scale, and what level of cheese is acceptable?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262206
That thread talks about some of the ways.

The easiest path is Cosmic Descryer 7 + Delay Death + Polymorph Any Object to turn the moon into a pebble that you can carry in your back pocket.

At level 7 a Cosmic Descryer can get +1 CL for every 5 points of HP damage it takes without limit. With Delay Death you will never die, regardless of how much HP damage you take. Caster level 100 trillion effects are at your disposal; well for seven minutes per day and don't get hit with Disjunction as that will rip off your Delay Death and have you become actually dead (but you can res yourself to get over that minor problem).

If you don't care about time just go Incorporeal (Ghost Form) and then Teleport to the center of the celestial body before casting Prismatic Sphere + Permanency. All matter that hits it is instantly disintegrated and the pressure of the celestial body will keep crushing new matter into it. It might take awhile but this one can even make stars die.

[LokiRagnarok]

I learned that basically someone would have to let him out of his prison, and potential people to do such a thing would be mortals seeking power, end of the world cults, etc. bad people.

:smallconfused: This sounds like your DM hinting that destroying the moon might release that Eldritch horror into your plane.

Regardless, make sure that that doesn't happen. You wouldn't want to accidentally destroy a Snarl's Gate.

[JaronK]

Has anybody mentioned Rockburst yet? It's a third level spell that blows up any rock that's larger than a certain size (8 cubic feet, I think). Blam, no more moon. You'll need someone who can cast the spell of course, or a scroll.

JaronK

[TuggyNE]

Has anybody mentioned Rockburst yet? It's a third level spell that blows up any rock that's larger than a certain size (8 cubic feet, I think). Blam, no more moon. You'll need someone who can cast the spell of course, or a scroll.

Wow, I think that might just win.

[Yogibear41]

:smallconfused: This sounds like your DM hinting that destroying the moon might release that Eldritch horror into your plane.

Regardless, make sure that that doesn't happen. You wouldn't want to accidentally destroy a Snarl's Gate.

I'm almost positive hes not trapped in the moon, as he put the moon into the sky before he was trapped by the other gods.