What do you think of this puzzle?

[Grindle]

Any opinions on this puzzle (http://jsfiddle.net/a_e_m/ce4BV/embedded/result/) that I made for my first dungeon? (I already used it, so I'm not looking for suggestions, I'm just curious.) How's the difficulty? (I ended up giving my players a hint, just to speed things up.) Any else interested in using it?

Puzzle instructions: Use your mouse to rotate the wheels so that adjacent gems of the same color line up. You've solved the puzzle when all 12 pairs of adjacent gems match. (The gems are the colored circles, in case you couldn't tell.)

[ScubaGoomba]

Pretty easy, but definitely good for a first puzzle. I like it, and might actually consider using it for my guys in the near future!

[AuraTwilight]

It's pretty easy to brute-force, unfortunately.

[Grindle]

It's pretty easy to brute-force, unfortunately.

Well, it was important that the players be able to get past it, so that's okay with me. (Also, exactly what do you mean by brute-force? You're not meant to have to try many combinations to be able to solve it, if you use the right strategy.)

[ScubaGoomba]

I'm curious how you intended your players to go about it.

I approached it, at first, attempting to "brute force" it (grind through until it works) until I quickly realized I just had to base it off one spot and try the one in a different spot and see which stuck. Incidentally, I went in a direction and started in a spot that meant I tried each color on the wheel, but it was certainly easier than "brute forcing" it.

[Grindle]

I'm curious how you intended your players to go about it.

I approached it, at first, attempting to "brute force" it (grind through until it works) until I quickly realized I just had to base it off one spot and try the one in a different spot and see which stuck. Incidentally, I went in a direction and started in a spot that meant I tried each color on the wheel, but it was certainly easier than "brute forcing" it.

Judging from your description, you used the strategy I intended for my players to use to solve it. (It's the only strategy I know of that works in a reasonable amount of time.)

[Toofey]

I thought I had it then didn't because I was having trouble telling the colors apart... did anyone else have trouble with that or am I going colorblind?

[Kaun]

i think that's a good level of difficulty for a puzzle, unless your group is really into puzzles.

[Zahhak]

I think you're getting enough comments on the difficulty, and that you didn't ask about it, but it is certainly a unique and kind of fun puzzle. Did a good job on it, congrats.

[valadil]

Well, it was important that the players be able to get past it, so that's okay with me. (Also, exactly what do you mean by brute-force? You're not meant to have to try many combinations to be able to solve it, if you use the right strategy.)

I picked a wheel and spun it. I match an adjacent wheel and the middle wheel. When all three lined up I had the whole puzzle.

Personally I found it too easy, but I can see why you'd use it. If I were using it I'd spice it up by either making consequences for wrong moves (eliminating the trial and error approach) or not having the wheels in fixed positions (so the players have to stick the wheels on pegs and then line them up).

[Mastikator]

Rotate the center one step and make two adjacent (I took top and upper right) till they match, then all match.
Pretty easy to brute force.

You could make it seem harder by not having all wheels have the same colors.

[Rabidmuskrat]

Pretty good puzzle for a DnD game. Its pretty much impossible for the players NOT to be able to solve the puzzle, it's just a matter of how long it takes. That's good, puzzles look simpler to solve when you start out with the answer so high difficulty is actually a no-no.

[Selein]

i guess im totally missing it. can someone explain this puzzle to me? im not seeing a pattern to the solution at all. and from ur directions i was trying to do the wrong thing in an attempt to solve it. Directions Unclear

[McNum]

Watch out if you have any players that are colorblind, because the yellow/yellow-green/green comination is hard to tell the difference between. Try a violet or maybe a black or white.

[Grindle]

If I were using it I'd spice it up by either making consequences for wrong moves (eliminating the trial and error approach) or not having the wheels in fixed positions (so the players have to stick the wheels on pegs and then line them up).

I tried having movable wheels, but it was too difficult (I couldn't even solve it, unless I had the solution in front of me.) Also, do you mean penalties like minor damage for every time you rotate the wheel?


Rotate the center one step and make two adjacent (I took top and upper right) till they match, then all match.
Pretty easy to brute force.

I'm not worried about people brute-forcing it, because you're supposed to solve it like that.


You could make it seem harder by not having all wheels have the same colors.
That's not a bad idea.


Watch out if you have any players that are colorblind, because the yellow/yellow-green/green comination is hard to tell the difference between. Try a violet or maybe a black or white.

Well, if my players had problems, I could always change the colors. They were okay with it, although I admit some of the colors are a bit close. If someone wants me to change the colors, I can.

Solution:
Rotate the center wheel so that red is facing up. Rotate the other wheels to match.

[Trekkin]

You could also make it harder by hiding some or all of the gems. Just give them some indicator that a given pair matches and see what they do with otherwise (partially) blank wheels. It also solves the color blindness problem if there's just a binary signal rather than colors.

[Emmerask]

It is a good puzzle, the one minor nitpick I would have is that its (presumably) used on a computer/tablet/smartphone which somewhat breaks immersion.

Recreating this with paper though is not hard and it most likely comes down to personal preference :smallsmile:

One question though did you give the instructions to the riddle (or was that the hint you gave)?
Because I could very well see my players go nuts and try to arrange the crystals by avg density or somesuch (ie anything but the simple solution),

three hours later having tried anything from quantum state to the colors of the great houses of the last 10.000 years, they would then try easy stuff like color match :smallbiggrin:

[Slipperychicken]

What are the gems worth then the PCs pry them loose?

[Shred-Bot]

What are the gems worth then the PCs pry them loose?

I'm assuming about 1000gp/level (or hit die) of the character prying it. Also they're all soul trapping trigger objects. (Conveniently pre-targeted towards the PCs, somehow.)

... ok too mean. Especially for a first puzzle.

[Zahhak]

The gems are on a pressure plate. Remove the gems and the puzzle explodes, destroying the puzzle without opening up what's behind it, and deal 10d10d100 points of force damage to everyone in the room and half that to everyone else in the building.

[HyperInferno]

My only suggestion. Make sure the middle wheel does not start off in the correct position. Otherwise you have a 1/6 chance of it being TOO easy to solve.

[navar100]

Either it's coincidence, you're the actual inventor, or you adopted it, but I know I saw this puzzle as a game about year ago at a gaming weekend party I attend.

[Grindle]

You could also make it harder by hiding some or all of the gems. Just give them some indicator that a given pair matches and see what they do with otherwise (partially) blank wheels. It also solves the color blindness problem if there's just a binary signal rather than colors.

I might do this if I ever want to make another harder version of the puzzle.


It is a good puzzle, the one minor nitpick I would have is that its (presumably) used on a computer/tablet/smartphone which somewhat breaks immersion.

Recreating this with paper though is not hard and it most likely comes down to personal preference :smallsmile:


I tried it on paper first, but getting everything to line up was annoying, because you had to rotate everything a little bit at a time by hand. I can't say I see why a computer screen is less immersive than paper (it's not like either is a realistic representation).



One question though did you give the instructions to the riddle (or was that the hint you gave)?

I said that gems of the same color glowed when they were next to each other.


What are the gems worth then the PCs pry them loose?

Just to give context, these gems were small gems inlaid in wheels set in the upper portion of a magical silver clockwork skeleton key (the wheels controlled the configuration of the skeleton key). So not very much. Also, what kind of heartless person pries the gems out of a magic key? :smalltongue:


My only suggestion. Make sure the middle wheel does not start off in the correct position. Otherwise you have a 1/6 chance of it being TOO easy to solve.

I figured that most people would turn the center wheel sort-of randomly while trying to solve the puzzle, before figuring out the strategy mentioned above, so I'm not sure that the center wheel starting out in that position is a problem. (My assumption may be wrong, but most people I've seen seem to fiddle with it a bit before really thinking about it.)


Either it's coincidence, you're the actual inventor, or you adopted it, but I know I saw this puzzle as a game about year ago at a gaming weekend party I attend.

It's definitely a coincidence. Was it exactly the same? If so, that's pretty weird.

[navar100]

It's definitely a coincidence. Was it exactly the same? If so, that's pretty weird.

Color placement may be different, but it's the same puzzle in design and goal. For the puzzle I saw, the colors are arranged in circles on hexagonal pieces you move around to align the colors.

[TuggyNE]

Also, what kind of heartless person pries the gems out of a magic key? :smalltongue:

I think if you look closely, the question answers itself. :smallwink: :smallyuk:

[Slipperychicken]

Also, what kind of heartless person pries the gems out of a magic key? :smalltongue:


You have either not been DMing/playing long, or are blessed with wonderful non-murderhobo players.


Since it's a magic item, though, they'd probably try to sell the key whole. Even minor magic items are worth a few hundred at least.

[horngeek]

What does it unlock, out of interest?

Not that difficult, but you could use that puzzle as a recurring theme- that symbol you get by solving it is important down the road, perhaps.

[Geordnet]

I solved it in 20 seconds. :smallbiggrin:

(I got lucky a lucky break.)

[Fiery Diamond]

Rotate the center one step and make two adjacent (I took top and upper right) till they match, then all match.
Pretty easy to brute force.

You could make it seem harder by not having all wheels have the same colors.

How is that brute forcing it? I'm pretty sure that's the "strategy" the creator was talking about.

[Brookshw]

Fun puzzle, very easy. Earlier suggestions of mixing up some of the colors could add a bit of challenge. Just as a passing thought, perhaps some of the gems could be missing for extra confusion? (Or finding the missing gems to solve it could be part of the challenge)

[Geordnet]

Oh, clever idea:

Have the PCs encounter this puzzle as a recurring theme in one dungeon. But every time they encounter it, a different variation:


Center wheel is fixed in correct position. (Easy intro.)
Straight-up normal puzzle.
Some of the gems are missing. (Must be found.)
Only 3-4 gem colors are used. (Solution still unique).
Puzzle expanded to 12 wheels. (3 center cogs in a triangle.)
Turning one rotor turns adjacent rotors. (May be harder to script.)
Puzzle has no solution. (Players have to cheat, like by rearranging the gems or rotors.)



(PS: Make sure you have at least three hints and/or ways to bypass the later puzzles. Maybe the last one is on a chest that is small enough to be removed from the dungeon, so they it be solved later or an NPC safecracker hired.)

[Grindle]

What does it unlock, out of interest?

It unlocked a clockwork-themed wizard's secret workshop, where he practiced questionable dark magic. (Just to be clear, he wasn't there when the players broke in.)


Not that difficult, but you could use that puzzle as a recurring theme- that symbol you get by solving it is important down the road, perhaps


Oh, clever idea:

Have the PCs encounter this puzzle as a recurring theme in one dungeon. But every time they encounter it, a different variation:
*LIST*


Well, that wizard is still loose somewhere, so I could use similar puzzles in areas where he's been. It wouldn't be in the same dungeon, but it could still work as sort of a recurring motif for the character.