The 4.E Samurai

[NeoSeraphi]

As much as I don't want to, my girlfriend has decided to run a 4.E game for me and so I will be learning it and playing along with her and one other person (possibly more). She's a first time DM, first time roleplayer, etc and she's running this game because she feels bad that I'm not in one right now, so I want to try my best to enjoy it with her.

The issue I have now is character creation (other than the inbred hatred of everything 4.E is that comes from growing up on 3.5). The character concept I had in mind was a samurai, and I want to stick with that concept. I just don't know how to go about creating it in this system. So I'd like to know about you guys' opinions on classes, feats, that kind of thing.

Requirements:
Human Male
Able to wield a katana or some other two-handed sword (Swords only, no hammers, axes, spears or otherwise)
Lawful Good, very disciplined (So no powers that rely on rage)
No divine power in his backstory, devotion to his lord alone (So not paladin or cleric)
Able to deal damage and take damage

The issue here is that I've heard the fighter has been shifted to the "defender" role in 4.E, so I don't know how I'm going to achieve the above concept. Everything seems so limiting in 4.E. I can't be a ranger because I'm not using two weapons, paladin and barbarian both don't fit the samurai theme, and fighter doesn't deal enough damage. So...what should I do here?

[Akodo Makama]

"Fighter" hits every point you want.
Humans are good at everything, so that isn't an issue.
Fighter is a master of every type of weapon, able to specialize if they desire. (everyone requires a feat to use a katana, though) Just have him 'shun' those 'lesser weapons'. (Swords have the best accuracy anyway)
Fighter doesn't rely on rage. There are several 'reliable' powers that don't get expended on a miss, which could represent discipline.
Fighter can deal out quite a bit of damage, and take hits better than any but a dragonborn paladin.

Other things that fit 'Samurai':
It has an offshoot that wields two swords, giving up some of the defender shtick for more offense.
It calls enemies to himself, challenging them to fight him first, or suffer the consequences (that's the defender shtick).

What makes you feel like it isn't what you're looking for?

[Ashdate]

My first suggestion would be to take a deep breath, and stop comparing 4e to 3.5. Yes, they're the same brand, but if you're not going to take the system for what it's worth I'd just tell your girlfriend to not even bother. You'll only make yourself and her unhappy.

To your question, the Fighter may not dish out as much damage as either a Rogue or a Ranger, but - if built for it - their damage output is perfectly competent. I offer two suggestions:

1) Make a PHB1 Fighter. Grab Two-Handed Weapon Talent, and use a Greatsword or spend a feat to use a Fullblade (Adventure's Vault). Refluff the weapon as a katana or whatever. Strikers tend to deal the bulk of their damage with multi-hit attacks, but Fighters don't have too many that work with Heavy Blades so go for powers that use multiple weapon dice. Since you'll be wearing Scale and have Defender HP, you'll be pretty tough naturally.

You'll want a high Strength (16 + human racial), and Heavy Blade feats usually require a good Dexterity (I think the good Paragon feats require a 15 Dex). Depending on your party composition (is this a solo thing? Your post isn't very clear), you'll want a decent Wisdom, but don't kill yourself over it. Cha can be dumped, the rest should go into Con of course.

2) Make a Essentials "Slayer" Fighter (Heroes of the Fallen Lands). Same as above generally, although forgoing Wisdom for Dexterity. Slayers are Fighters with a lot of the "defender" bits removed, and stream-lined. They won't be as versatile in combat at higher levels, but they're a lot simpler to play and (I find) more visceral.

[Janus]

How does seppuku work in D&D? Do the rules even allow you to coup de grace yourself?

[Tegu8788]

The fighter can deal plenty of damage, but able to protect friends while doing it. If that's not enough for you, then the Slayer is for you. Grab a Sohei theme for some asian flavor and extra damage output.


One thing about 4E, when you choose a class, you can very easily be completely independent of fluff. The Barbarian isn't raging out, he's entered a battle-meditation. The Paladin isn't divine, he's simply a skilled warrior and healer, a warrior-poet so to speak. Rangers mechanically do best duel wielding yes, but samurai also were known to use a katana and a wakizashi. Alignment has no effect anymore, so being lawful good is no problem.

But if you wan't to be exactly what you asked for, that's very easy. Your class will be able to use all kinds of weapons, but you can focus on big swords easy. I can throw a sample build together for you, if you like.

[NeoSeraphi]

But if you wan't to be exactly what you asked for, that's very easy. Your class will be able to use all kinds of weapons, but you can focus on big swords easy. I can throw a sample build together for you, if you like.

That would be very helpful, yes. I don't even know how to create a character, ability score generation, feats, or anything like that. I'm aware of the wakizashi, but the wakizashi is generally just a ceremonial weapon. I plan to carry one, but not use it.

I hope that I can use the Slayers fighter, sounds like it would be closer to the power that I wanted than a standard fighter, but I don't know what kinds of sources I will have access to. We're borrowing some books from a few people, so we basically only have what we can get.


It calls enemies to himself, challenging them to fight him first, or suffer the consequences (that's the defender shtick).


Yeah, that was the thing that I wasn't interested in. I wanted to play a formidable warrior who was able to essentially slay his enemies just by drawing his blade and scare his enemies, and also have a few other skills.

A few extra things I want out of this character-
The ability to ride a horse in combat
The ability to draw your weapon and attack in the same round
The ability to write calligraphy, paint, and intimidate


What you guys say about Heavy Blades being able to deal lots of damage with one attack seems good. If I can deal lots of damage with just one attack, I can hopefully make it work similarly to the PF Iaijutsu Strike (draw your weapon, attack for massive damage, then sheathe it in the same round while your enemy drops from that one attack)

[Tegu8788]

Working on one for you then. Slayer is in Heroes of the Fallen Lands, but feats and items are all over the place. The first PBH has all the info on building a character, but we can help walk you through it. You can use this (http://www.asmor.com/scripts/4eAbilityScores/index.php) for making scores if you like. The fullblade is in the adventurer's vault, but everything else, at level 1, is in that one book.


A few extra things I want out of this character-
The ability to ride a horse in combat
The ability to draw your weapon and attack in the same round
The ability to write calligraphy, paint, and intimidate

Mounted combat is very different, and effectively useless as far as I know, aside from some increased mobility that I don't think a human can really take advantage of. There is a feat to give some bonuses, but I think they have mostly been errata'ed away.

Most DMs I think will let you draw your weapon as part of initiative, at least that's how it was explained to me. Either way, it's only a minor action, still letting you move in, and attack. Sheathing is another matter, but you can get around this for a single feat, Quick Draw from PHB.

As for the writing, that's a given in 4E, even the barbarian is able to do that. As for intimidation, fighters/slayers have little use for charisma, which is what powers the skill intimidate. But there is a feat to get around that as well, looking for it right now.

Be glad human's have a bonus feat.


But to re-enforce what has been said, this is not 3.5. You will not build the same character. It will not happen. You can make a similar one, you can build one that can be played to carry a character forward between editions, but there are no perfect clones. This is not the Dungeons and Dragons you know, this is a game of Dragons and Dungeons. It's similar, and the tropes are all there, but this is a different beast.


Edit: The intimidation feat is Strong-Arm Tactics, from Drag Mag 386, but it requires you to be a half-orc.

If you can tell us more about what you want, what level you will be starting, and what party you will be in, if any.

[NecroRebel]

Yeah, that was the thing that I wasn't interested in. I wanted to play a formidable warrior who was able to essentially slay his enemies just by drawing his blade and scare his enemies, and also have a few other skills.

A few extra things I want out of this character-
The ability to ride a horse in combat
The ability to draw your weapon and attack in the same round
The ability to write calligraphy, paint, and intimidate

Unfortunately, it will be difficult - impossible, really - to consistently (or inconsistently) drop non-minion enemies with one attack. This is true regardless of your build; possible damage values simply don't get that high relative to normal enemies' hit points. Minions will die in one hit every time, but their defining trait as a monster category is that they die in one hit every time, so that's not really anything about your build. Mounted combat is also not very available prior to at least mid-levels, as mounts are very expensive or very fragile without a particular magic item to boost their durability.

Drawing a weapon and attacking in the same round is easy, however; the Quick Draw feat allows that, and also gives an initiative bonus as a side benefit, and requires only Dex 13, something a Heavy Blade user will want anyway. There are generally fewer game-changing feats or feats that are an essential keystone to builds in 4e than in 3.5, Quick Draw is a solid feat, and you get more feats in 4e than in 3.5, so it's a fine choice, especially if you've only got a few books available. Even if you don't take it, drawing a weapon is a minor action, so you can still move, draw a weapon, and attack using your move, minor, and standard actions, respectively; Fighters don't use their minors to mark or punish, so they can fulfill their defender role adequately with that sequence.

Intimidating is simply a matter of having the Intimidate skill trained, though as you don't want to be a paladin or barbarian you won't be a Cha-based class and so won't have as high a bonus as you otherwise might. You might look into skill powers for the skill. Calligraphy and painting are likely either going to be abilities that are not based on any mechanics (pure fluff) or based on use of the Diplomacy, History, or Nature skills, as your DM decides.



If you do want to be a striker instead of a defender, I would suggest the Barbarian. It's not the berserk wild warrior anymore; instead, they're warriors empowered by the spirits of the land. You could very easily fluff this as your ancestors empowering you, or simply use a religious basis in a form similar to Shintoist animism. One of the options for barbarians involves a charisma secondary stat as well, making for a more socially-capable warrior than most others. The powers called Rages could, as was suggested by Tegu, be fluffed as entering a meditative state in battle.

[Draz74]

Re-fluffing a Barbarian could work, but really the Fighter is almost a Striker anyway. He can deal far more damage with his normal ol' weapons than most of the other "Defender" classes can.

So, really there's no reason not to just play that.

[Kurald Galain]

The ability to ride a horse in combat
The ability to draw your weapon and attack in the same round
The ability to write calligraphy, paint, and intimidate

Anyone can ride a horse or draw-and-attack; no feats required or anything (but there's a feat to make your mount attack too, if you want). Intimidate is a skill that most sword-wielding classes have on their list, and is easy to pick up otherwise. There are no rules for calligraphy or painting so you can just pretend to be good at those; mechanically there is no way to be better at them than anybody else.

And yeah, play a fighter to be a samurai; easy enough. Creating a new class in 4E requires writing several dozen powers, which is not recommended for a first-time player.

[Badgerish]

1) classes
Warlord (Martial Leader)
If you want to push the social skills and team-work parts of the character, consider the Warlord.
You can focus on strength and charisma, dealing decent damage with a two-handed sword while having decent armour and HP.
The Warlord has powers to encourage/command their team-mates to take extra actions, gain significant combat-bonuses and heal/throw-off conditions. Some of these powers (they will say "you or an ally" instead of "an ally") can be used on yourself, representing stolic resolve.
This is a complex role, but if you like the idea of this, it can really pay off.

Fighter (Martial Defender)
Plenty of good advice about the Fighter already. Do you want to be a defender? The one who stands up to the enemies to protect others? Striking the enemies down is just part of this, but Fighters are still good at this.

Slayer (Martial Striker)
Plenty of good advice about the Fighter already. Simple and effective.

Ranger (Martial Striker)
If you want to focus on the horse-riding part, Rangers have an option to get a Beast Companion which now includes horses. While you would be better off using dual-weilding, using a two-handed weapon is still an option.
Beastmaster Rangers also get a ritual to return their Beast to life... which is important, as mundane mounts will die rather easily as you go up in levels.

2) Themes
ask your GM if they are using 'themes', as the Sohei theme is PERFECT for what you want, having powers/bonuses for draw-and-strike and combat-intimidation.

edit: if I wanted to play a Samurai, I would write them as a Warlord, but that's from how I see Samurai as officers/leaders.
If I wanted to play a Ronin... I would probably use a Slayer

[neonchameleon]

As much as I don't want to, my girlfriend has decided to run a 4.E game for me and so I will be learning it and playing along with her and one other person (possibly more). She's a first time DM, first time roleplayer, etc and she's running this game because she feels bad that I'm not in one right now, so I want to try my best to enjoy it with her.

The issue I have now is character creation (other than the inbred hatred of everything 4.E is that comes from growing up on 3.5). The character concept I had in mind was a samurai, and I want to stick with that concept. I just don't know how to go about creating it in this system. So I'd like to know about you guys' opinions on classes, feats, that kind of thing.

Requirements:
Human Male
Able to wield a katana or some other two-handed sword (Swords only, no hammers, axes, spears or otherwise)
Lawful Good, very disciplined (So no powers that rely on rage)
No divine power in his backstory, devotion to his lord alone (So not paladin or cleric)
Able to deal damage and take damage

The issue here is that I've heard the fighter has been shifted to the "defender" role in 4.E, so I don't know how I'm going to achieve the above concept. Everything seems so limiting in 4.E. I can't be a ranger because I'm not using two weapons, paladin and barbarian both don't fit the samurai theme, and fighter doesn't deal enough damage. So...what should I do here?

OK. Let's start from the top.

What is a defender? A defender is quite simply someone who in combat is dangerous enough that the enemy suffers badly if they don't make them their primary target. The barbarian might have muscles on muscles but even turning your back on the barbarian is preferable to turning your back on a defender.

Now, what is a PHB fighter (called a fighter from now on) in 4e?

A fighter is a very scary warrior. They might not hit the hardest (although they aren't far off) - but they are intimidating enough that the enemies they have chosen do not dare to take their eyes off them. This is represented by the Mark (think marking as in football). A foe marked by the PHB fighter takes a -2 penalty to take their eyes off the fighter and attack someone else for the round. (Note that if they make an attack including the fighter and other people (burning hands, dragons breath, etc.) this doesn't suffer the penalty; the dragon can toast everyone but even a dragon doesn't want to turn away from the fighter).

A fighter is a very dangerous warrior, able to exploit even the smallest opportunity offered by their chosen foe. 1/round if an enemy they have Marked takes their eyes off the fighter, whether to attack someone else or even to make a 5 foot step (which is called a "shift" in 4e) the fighter gets to exploit even such a minor distraction to make a free attack. This ability is called Combat Challenge.

A fighter is not only able to take advantage of small opportunities, they are able to take extreme advantage of large ones. A fighter gains their wisdom modifier as a bonus to opportunity attacks (which you can make one per enemy turn - in addition to your 1/round Combat Challenge), and if the enemy was moving and the fighter hits, they are stopped cold (in addition to doing damage). This ability is called Combat Superiority.

Does this combination of abilities feel like the way you picture your samurai? Fast, scary, and able to take advantage of even the tiniest opportunity or extreme advantage of a normal one in combat? Because if so, it is those three abilities that make the fighter a defender; the word "defender" on its own means nothing; each defender class has its own way of being a defender.

As for the fighter not doing enough damage, fighters can outdamage many strikers if they are trying even if the enemy isn't giving them free attacks from Combat Challenge. If the enemy is, they leave almost all strikers including the barbarian and rogue in the dust.


A few extra things I want out of this character-
The ability to ride a horse in combat
The ability to draw your weapon and attack in the same round
The ability to write calligraphy, paint, and intimidate

Anyone can ride a horse in combat in 4e. Although if you want to do it well (taking advantage of the horse's training and protecting it), Mounted Combat is a feat. You draw your weapon as a minor action and attack as a standard - so anyone can draw and attack (and move) in the same round - and there aren't any full round actions. Intimidate is a fighter skill, so you can be trained in it. Calligraphy and painting aren't official skills - anyone can do them and agree with your DM how good you are at them.

Unfortunately you can't one-shot non-minions in 4e. Minions are the rules used for things such as overmatched rabble or just people you've outlevelled; mechanically they can hit you although not terribly hard, but they die to one hit.

Oh, and two other things if switching from 3e to 4e that are badly explained in the actual rulebook but should help:

The powers structure is narrative pacing. Think of 4e as an action TV series. Your at will powers are what you do when in the background, your encounter powers are signature moves, and your daily is a once per episode crowning moment of awesome.

Hit points have been clarified - they were always a slightly incoherent concept, but in 4e they don't actually track damage. (They never really did). They are much closer to a stun-damage system, with actual lasting damage being measured by healing surges spent. Which is why a Warlord can allow someone to spend a healing surge to recover hit points (recovering morale and stun) but all the surgeless healing is explicitely magical. (I also find the game works better if an extended rest takes longer than 8 hours).

[Ashdate]

Here's three sample builds.

The first is a level 11, PHB ONLY build. A lot of the choices are suboptimal, mostly because the material I had to work with was inherently limited.

I picked what was pretty much the "best" powers at each level in the PHB, but as you play and gain levels, you might find gaps in your character that particular powers I've picked simply don't fill. This is especially true for feat selection; don't take the order I've picked them as gospel, and if there's something else you'd prefer to use, feel free to go with that; none of the feats I picked (aside from Quick Draw) are essential to your "Samurai" concept. *IMPORTANT NOTE: For comparison purposes, I've added +2 to all defenses to indicate what your defenses would probably look like, given +2 armor and a +2 neckpiece. In actual play, your defenses might be slightly higher (or lower) depending on what magical items you get:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
4e Samurai, level 11
Human, Fighter (Weaponmaster), Kensei
Fighter Option: Combat Superiority
Fighter Talents Option: Two-handed Weapon Talent
Kensei Focus Option: Kensei Focus Greatsword
Human Power Selection Option: Bonus At-Will Power
Inherent Bonuses

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 14, DEX 14, INT 8, WIS 13, CHA 10

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 21, CON 16, DEX 15, INT 9, WIS 15, CHA 11


AC: 25 Fort: 25 Ref: 20 Will: 20
HP: 91 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +13, Endurance +11, Heal +12, Intimidate +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +7, History +4, Insight +7, Nature +7, Perception +7, Religion +4, Stealth +5, Streetwise +5, Thievery +5

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Fighter Attack: Combat Challenge
Fighter Attack 1: Sure Strike
Fighter Attack 1: Cleave
Fighter Attack 1: Reaping Strike
Fighter Attack 1: Steel Serpent Strike
Fighter Attack 1: Villain's Menace
Fighter Utility 2: Boundless Endurance
Fighter Attack 3: Sweeping Blow
Fighter Attack 5: Rain of Steel
Fighter Utility 6: Unbreakable
Fighter Attack 7: Come and Get It
Fighter Attack 9: Thicket of Blades
Fighter Utility 10: Into the Fray
Kensei Attack 11: Masterstroke

FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
Level 1: Human Perseverance
Level 2: Blade Opportunist
Level 4: Armor Proficiency: Plate
Level 6: Quick Draw
Level 8: Durable
Level 10: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
Level 11: Heavy Blade Opportunity

ITEMS
Bastard sword x1
Plate Armor x1
====== End ======

The second build here is more of a theoretical "if you had access to all the books" build. It's a lot stronger than the PHB-Only build, but not so much that you need to worry that you're missing out by not having access to this material. I've stuck to the "core" books (PHB1-3, Martial Power 1 and 2, and the Essentials HotFL). Because of this, I've not chosen a Theme as they tend to be Dragon and Campaign specific (the earlier suggestion about grabbing the Sohei Theme - Dragon 404 - was a good one, but only if you can manage it). The Fullblade is from the Adventurer's Vault, which I figured would be common enough to have.

I've listed the sources where I can unlisted are from the PHB1. Once again, Inherent Bonuses have been turned to more accurately reflect what defenses may look like at level 11 due to magical armor/neck pieces:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
4e Samurai, level 11
Human, Fighter (Weaponmaster), Kensei
Fighter Option: Combat Superiority
Fighter Talents Option: Two-handed Weapon Talent
Kensei Focus Option: Kensei Focus Greatsword
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Inherent Bonuses
Martial - Bearer of the Heirloom (+2 to Intimidate), Martial Power

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 13, DEX 14, INT 8, WIS 14, CHA 10

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 21, CON 14, DEX 15, INT 9, WIS 17, CHA 11


AC: 24 Fort: 27 Ref: 22 Will: 23
HP: 89 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +15, Endurance +12, Heal +13, Intimidate +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +7, Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +8, History +4, Insight +8, Nature +8, Perception +8, Religion +4, Stealth +7, Streetwise +5, Thievery +7

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort, Heroes of the Fallen Lands
Fighter Attack: Combat Challenge
Fighter Attack 1: Cleave
Fighter Attack 1: Footwork Lure, Martial Power
Fighter Attack 1: Steel Serpent Strike
Fighter Attack 1: Driving Attack, Martial Power 2
Fighter Utility 2: Glowering Threat, Heroes of the Fallen Lands
Fighter Attack 3: Parry and Riposte, Martial Power
Fighter Attack 5: Rain of Steel
Fighter Utility 6: Ignore Weakness, Heroes of the Fallen Lands
Fighter Attack 7: Come and Get It
Fighter Attack 9: Jackal Strike, Martial Power
Fighter Utility 10: Fighter's Grit, Martial Power 2
Kensei Attack 11: Masterstroke

FEATS
Level 1: Heavy Blade Expertise, Heroes of the Fallen Lands
Level 1: Resilient Focus, Heroes of the Fallen Lands
Level 2: Blade Opportunist
Level 4: Improved Defenses, Heroes of the Fallen Lands
Level 6: Quick Draw
Level 8: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
Level 10: Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade), "Adventurer's Vault"
Level 11: Heavy Blade Opportunity

ITEMS
Fullblade x1
Scale Armor x1
====== End ======

The last one is a Slayer build, once again with inherent bonuses turned on to simulate him wearing +2 armor and a +2 neckpiece:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
4e Samurai, level 11
Human, Fighter (Slayer), Kensei
Slayer Weapon Specialization Option: Sweeping Sword
Kensei Focus Option: Kensei Focus Greatsword
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Inherent Bonuses
Martial - Bearer of the Heirloom (+2 to Intimidate)

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 12, DEX 16, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 10

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 21, CON 13, DEX 19, INT 9, WIS 13, CHA 11


AC: 25 Fort: 28 Ref: 25 Will: 19
HP: 88 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +15, Endurance +11, Heal +11, Intimidate +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +9, Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +6, History +4, Insight +6, Nature +6, Perception +6, Religion +4, Stealth +9, Streetwise +5, Thievery +9

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Multiple Class Attack: Power Strike
Fighter Utility: Berserker's Charge
Fighter Utility: Battle Wrath
Fighter Utility: Duelist's Assault
Fighter Utility 2: Single Out
Fighter Utility 6: Dauntless Endurance
Fighter Utility 10: Clearheaded
Kensei Attack 11: Masterstroke

FEATS
Resilient Focus
Level 1: Heavy Blade Expertise
Level 2: Superior Reflexes
Level 4: Superior Fortitude
Level 6: Quick Draw
Level 8: Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade)
Level 10: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
Level 11: Armor Specialization (Scale)

ITEMS
Fullblade x1
Scale Armor x1
====== End ======

Once again, I don't claim the above builds to be optimized, so be sure to read the individual powers and feats yourself, and decide whether they "fit" the character you're going for.

[vasharanpaladin]

Fighter, Weapon Talent (Two-Handed), done. Just because WotC says "Defender" doesn't mean you're locked to protecting allies; fighters can put out more damage than half the classes WotC calls "Striker," which amusingly enough often desperately want to multiclass fighter in order to live up to that lofty title.

...Also, I see Sohei offered as the theme. NO. Iaijutsu can be found in a more effective samurai theme called, get this, SAMURAI. If you can take a theme, take Samurai, then take Kensei as your paragon path, that should do just fine.

And, Neo Seraphi? I sympathize with you. I too was dragged into 4e against my will. You may come to like it (as I did, though not without dissent), you might not, but the important thing is to discard the lens of "In 3.5 I could..." here. Fighters are USEFUL and can MEANINGFULLY CONTRIBUTE in the same party as a wizard here.

So play well and, temporary as it may well be, welcome to the fold. :smallsmile:

[ShadeRaven]

Are you sure that you want to use swords. As a whole - naginata (spear) will probably work better from optimization point of view.
Here is a quick suggestion:

level 11
Human, Fighter|Warlord, Kensei
Warlord Leadership: Battlefront Leader (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlord: Hybrid Warlord Will
Choose Weapon Group for your Level 10 Samurai Feature: Heavy blade (Level 10 Samurai Feature)
Kensei Focus: Kensei Focus Fullblade
Hybrid Talent: Fighter Combat Talent
Fighter Combat Talent: Two-handed Weapon Talent (Hybrid)
Background: Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 21, Con 14, Dex 9, Int 12, Wis 19, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 8, Int 11, Wis 16, Cha 10.

TRAINED SKILLS
Diplomacy +12, History +11, Athletics +15, Intimidate +12, Religion +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Arcana +6, Bluff +5, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +7, Heal +9, Insight +11, Nature +9, Perception +11, Stealth +4, Streetwise +5, Thievery +4

FEATS
Human: Hybrid Talent
Level 1: Armored Warlord
Level 2: Two-Handed Weapon Expertise
Level 4: Wary Fighter
Level 6: Improved Initiative
Level 8: Disciple of Divine Wrath
Level 10: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
Level 11: Marked Scourge

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Footwork Lure
Hybrid at-will 1: Direct the Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Vengeance is Mine
Hybrid daily 1: Driving Attack
Hybrid utility 2: Glowering Threat
Hybrid encounter 3: Parry and Riposte
Hybrid daily 5: Staggering Spin
Hybrid utility 6: Rousing Words
Hybrid encounter 7: Trip Up
Hybrid daily 9: Jackal Strike
Hybrid utility 10: Draw Their Eyes

Wis focus is not needed. You can go Dex just as well, but will have a sucking Will save which is not very samuray-ish.

[NeoSeraphi]

The thing is, guys, I'm pretty sure this game is starting at level one and only going to last two or three months (once per week) so I guess we'll probably end up around 7th or 8th level by the time we're done.

Also, I don't want to use a naginata. I need a weapon that I can use in one or both hands (so I can steer my horse while I'm in combat) and also swords are just generally more awesome and samurai-ish.

Is there a way for me to mimic the PF Samurai's Resolve feature in 4.E? It's an ability that allows the samurai to keep fighting while at negative HP. (I know about healing surges, but that isn't the same thing. I want an ability that will let me keep standing up when every other resource has been exhausted and the chips are really down, maybe a daily power or something).

[Badgerish]

...Also, I see Sohei offered as the theme. NO. Iaijutsu can be found in a more effective samurai theme called, get this, SAMURAI. If you can take a theme, take Samurai, then take Kensei as your paragon path, that should do just fine.Heh, after looking up the Samurai, Sohei and Yakuza themes I see your point.

I'm personally more of a fan of Sohei for a fighting theme, but Samurai fits the OP's designs more.

[vasharanpaladin]

The thing is, guys, I'm pretty sure this game is starting at level one and only going to last two or three months (once per week) so I guess we'll probably end up around 7th or 8th level by the time we're done.

Also, I don't want to use a naginata. I need a weapon that I can use in one or both hands (so I can steer my horse while I'm in combat) and also swords are just generally more awesome and samurai-ish.

Is there a way for me to mimic the PF Samurai's Resolve feature in 4.E? It's an ability that allows the samurai to keep fighting while at negative HP. (I know about healing surges, but that isn't the same thing. I want an ability that will let me keep standing up when every other resource has been exhausted and the chips are really down, maybe a daily power or something).

Hands don't matter, if you're on the horse you're on the horse and you don't need hands to maintain that. If you insist, a katana is a bastard sword, just like in 3.5.

And no, you won't be able to do that; Sub-Zero builds require Revenants and epic levels.

[Urpriest]

Hands don't matter, if you're on the horse you're on the horse and you don't need hands to maintain that. If you insist, a katana is a bastard sword, just like in 3.5.

And no, you won't be able to do that; Sub-Zero builds require Revenants and epic levels.

Though there are a few "make an attack when you get taken down" powers out there. Minotaurs get one, IIRC.

[Ashdate]

Also, I don't want to use a naginata. I need a weapon that I can use in one or both hands (so I can steer my horse while I'm in combat) and also swords are just generally more awesome and samurai-ish.

Is there a way for me to mimic the PF Samurai's Resolve feature in 4.E? It's an ability that allows the samurai to keep fighting while at negative HP. (I know about healing surges, but that isn't the same thing. I want an ability that will let me keep standing up when every other resource has been exhausted and the chips are really down, maybe a daily power or something).

On the first point, if you want to be able to swing a two-handed weapon one handed your best option is to spend a feat to use a Bastard Sword. The alternative is using a versatile one-handed weapon like a longsword two-handed. Using a longsword would save you a feat at the expensive of about 1 extra damage per swing. Your choice really.

There's no ability as a heroic-tier fighter that I can find that mimics the ability to "stay up" at 0 hit points. There are some Barbarian ones, but the earliest of those I can see comes at level 10 (which you could swing with some multiclass feats as a Fighter, but if you don't think you'll get past level 7 that's not very helpful).

If you want to play something that feels a bit more "gritty", I would suggest picking powers that allow you to regain hit points, or at least temporary hit points. The Fighter Daily 1 "Comeback Strike" is a great example of this, allowing you to swing for some decent damage and spend a healing surge. They won't save you from dropping 0, but if you're in that much danger using a Daily Ability to try and stave off defeat sounds appropriate anyway!

[neonchameleon]

Also, I don't want to use a naginata. I need a weapon that I can use in one or both hands (so I can steer my horse while I'm in combat) and also swords are just generally more awesome and samurai-ish.

Is there a way for me to mimic the PF Samurai's Resolve feature in 4.E? It's an ability that allows the samurai to keep fighting while at negative HP. (I know about healing surges, but that isn't the same thing. I want an ability that will let me keep standing up when every other resource has been exhausted and the chips are really down, maybe a daily power or something).

Not directly at heroic tier. Most of the 4e powers that do something of the sort are interrupt or reaction abilities; the one that springs to mind is Unbreakable (an encounter reaction that reduces the damage you just took by 5 + your constitution modifier). Battle Fury Stance (regen while bloodied, daily) also springs to mind and there's a dwarf feat that lets them use their second wind as a reaction.

And my own worked suggestions, complete with reasoning.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Samurai, level 6
Human, Fighter
Fighter: Combat Superiority
Fighter Talents: Two-handed Weapon Talent
Human Power Selection: Heroic Effort

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 19, Con 12, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 11.


AC: 20 Fort: 20 Reflex: 16 Will: 18
HP: 57 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 14

TRAINED SKILLS
Heal +10, Endurance +9, Intimidate +8, Athletics +12, Diplomacy +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Arcana +2, Bluff +3, Dungeoneering +5, History +2, Insight +5, Nature +5, Perception +5, Religion +2, Stealth +5, Streetwise +3, Thievery +5

FEATS
Human: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
Level 1: Mounted Combat
Level 2: Master at Arms
Level 4: Superior Will
Level 6: Student of Battle

POWERS
Fighter at-will 1: Cleave
Fighter at-will 1: Footwork Lure
Fighter encounter 1: Passing Attack
Fighter daily 1: Villain's Menace
Fighter utility 2: Endure Pain
Fighter encounter 3: Sweeping Blow
Fighter daily 5: Rain of Steel
Fighter utility 6: Unbreakable

ITEMS
Bastard sword, Scale Armor
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Stats: 16 in strength +2 for being human works well. 14 in each of dex and wis to start with so you don't have a terribly weak reflex or will.

Two handed weapon talent: It's how you want to use your katana.

Trained Skills: Intimidate (you asked for), Endurance (seems to fit your last stand request), Athletics (of course), and Heal (to patch yourself up). With Diplomacy coming from a feat.

Feats: Weapon Proficiency Bastard Sword (because the Katana is - the Fullblade is technically a better weapon for the build, but who cares?) Mounted Combat (to cover the PF Samurai abilities). Master At Arms (from Heroes of the Fallen Lands) - +1 to hit with all weapons is useful, and it allows you to swap weapons fast. Superior Will (from Heroes of the Fallen Lands) - for those true grit moments; it adds two to your will and lets you shake off being dazed, dominated, and stunned over half the time. Student of Battle gives you inspiration abilities and adds another trained skill to your list.

Attack Powers: Cleave - Japanese weapons were really sharp and good at cutting through soft targets. When you hit an enemy do 4 damage to an adjacent enemy (and a minion only has 1hp). Footwork Lure for positioning your enemy where you want him. Passing Attack because you cut through the ranks of the enemy, blade flashing in the light, cutting them down in numbers. Sweeping Blow is effectively a 1/encounter whirlwind attack. Villain's Menace is your 1/day challenge, giving you significant bonusses against the foe you challenge. And Rain of Steel turns you into a meatgrinder of destruction, able to hold the line against overwhelming foes and slaughter them in droves.

Utility Powers: Here I went for your toughness theme, and picked a couple of interrupts that allow you to grit your way through serious amounts of damage. Endure Pain is psyching yourself up 1/day to hold that bridgehead against everyone. Resist 6 for an entire round while the enemy tries to bury you in bodies. Unbreakable only works for one attack but can be used 1/combat. If you fall, almost no one could have done better.

[Excession]

The thing is, guys, I'm pretty sure this game is starting at level one and only going to last two or three months (once per week) so I guess we'll probably end up around 7th or 8th level by the time we're done.

Also, I don't want to use a naginata. I need a weapon that I can use in one or both hands (so I can steer my horse while I'm in combat) and also swords are just generally more awesome and samurai-ish.

Is there a way for me to mimic the PF Samurai's Resolve feature in 4.E? It's an ability that allows the samurai to keep fighting while at negative HP. (I know about healing surges, but that isn't the same thing. I want an ability that will let me keep standing up when every other resource has been exhausted and the chips are really down, maybe a daily power or something).

You can steer with your knees. 4e doesn't require a free hand to ride, and I'm sure plenty of real life cavalry used a weapon in both hands. If nothing else mounted archers are a thing, and you can't use a bow with one hand. On that note, make sure you grab some javelins (which use Str to attack) or a bow if your Dex is reasonable, so you at least have the option of a ranged attack.

Fighters have a number of utility powers and attacks that let them heal themselves, via regeneration, temporary hit points, or spending healing surges. All of those have the result of letting you stay standing beyond the point where a normal person would be lying in a puddle of their own blood and failure. It's not precisely keeping fighting at negative hit points, but the flavour may still match. Check out Comeback Strike, Unstoppable, and Boundless Endurance for low level options.

[Akodo Makama]

Is there a way for me to mimic the PF Samurai's Resolve feature in 4.E? It's an ability that allows the samurai to keep fighting while at negative HP. (I know about healing surges, but that isn't the same thing. I want an ability that will let me keep standing up when every other resource has been exhausted and the chips are really down, maybe a daily power or something).

Fighter's have access to a daily stance that grants them regeneration while they're bloodied. It's effect lasts until the end of the encounter. Not quite the same as fighting in negative HP, but the same effect: The amount of damage he's taken should have killed this squishy human, but he just refuses to lay down and die. However, it's not available first level (fifth, I think).

[Herabec]

Y'know, I actually rolled up an Avenger using the Samurai theme with it. She works out as an excellent striker with a lot of good flavor. It's a divine class, but none of it (except maybe the impliment powers..which you don't need to take) is overly magical.

And also, Oath of Emnity is awesome.

[Sol]

It's a divine class, but none of it (except maybe the impliment powers..which you should never take) is overly magical.

And also, Oath of Emnity is awesome.

Fixed that for you. The Avenger implement powers are universally a trap, sacrificing accuracy and damage for...no more potent side benefits than the rest of their powers. I do generally advocate taking one of the RBA at-wills, in case you get immobilized, but other than that I see no reason other than ignorance or obstinacy to ever take one.

But yeah, I came here to say much the same thing and recommend the Avenger for this purpose.

One of my favorite things about 4e, which is sometimes a point of contention with 3e folks, is that the stock fluff in 4e is explicitly optional and players are encouraged to replace it entirely with their own concepts or explanations for the mechanics.

It is exceptionally easy to explain the mechanics of an avenger in terms of samurai. Wise, mobile, accurate, wields massive swords, devout follower of a specific lord or ideal, enemy to any who oppose said master. Avenger all the way.

[vasharanpaladin]

Overwhelming strike is mandatory, bond of censure is the best remaining at-will. Any other implement power from the avenger's list is a Bad Idea.

Also, avengers only help for the armor-less anime version, guys.

[Sol]

Overwhelming strike is mandatory, bond of censure is the best remaining at-will. Any other implement power from the avenger's list is a Bad Idea.

Also, avengers only help for the armor-less anime version, guys.

Agreed on OS. I prefer the RBA to BoC, but that's pure preference. I generally trend towards dex over int, and find that if i'm stuck at range I need more than range 5 anyway.

And for your cloth armor point, I mean, sure, but you can call your cloth plate, or scale, or chain, or a pink dress, or pretend you're stark naked, and the mechanics of cloth armor on an avenger will still match defender level defenses.

Again, the developers explicitly encourage refluffing things in 4e. They didn't even attempt to provide desirable fluff options for everybody, they just attempted to create balanced, interesting mechanics that you can choose to explain any way you prefer. And unless your explanation fails to explain the mechanics, refluffing things in this manner has no detrimental effect on verisimilitude.

So call it O-yoroi instead of cloth, or whatever makes you feel good. The mechanics of cloth on an avenger already work very well.

[vasharanpaladin]

Just because the designers encourage it doesn't mean it flies at the table... but then, I've mostly played with DM's who use "What You See Is What You Get" as an unwritten rule, so there may be a bias there.

[DeltaEmil]

Just because the designers encourage it doesn't mean it flies at the table... but then, I've mostly played with DM's who use "What You See Is What You Get" as an unwritten rule, so there may be a bias there.You're not changing the rules, you just say that you're an pseudo-eastern dude with a sharp metal stick who comes from fantasy-not-Japan. Why would a GM wish to forbid your refluffing, unless he or she doesn't like fantasy-not-Japan?

[vasharanpaladin]

You're not changing the rules, you just say that you're an pseudo-eastern dude with a sharp metal stick who comes from fantasy-not-Japan. Why would a GM wish to forbid your refluffing, unless he or she doesn't like fantasy-not-Japan?

Answered your own question. Also, I've seen a marked tendency for the DM to, when you insist you're running around in plate armor, hand out plate armor for you.

[Sol]

if he/she doesn't like fantasy not-japan, why is he allowing a samurai in the first place?

[Burley]

If somebody already said this, sorry!

If you have access to Divine Power, look at the Avenger.
I know you don't want divine blahblahs in your dude, but, if you reflavor it to being devotion to your feudal lord, rather than deific lord, I think it works well.

You get to use a two-handed sword. Your Oath of Enmity just screams One-on-One bushido-style combat. You'll be dealing okay damage, but what I've always liked about samurai (thematically) isn't damage output, but pinpoint damage. Avenger doesn't do as much damage as other strikers, but I dare you to miss an attack. Double dare.

Hey, just take a look and replace "divine" with "honour." I think it'd be neat.