[3.5] Most Versatile Race.

[Yael]

I'm sure that this thread has been started somewhere else on the playground, however I can't find it so I'll make one by myself.

So, which is the most versatile race? Your oppinion counts. Of course, it would be nice to know why you think ''the race'' is the most versatile. No templates allowed. Every book, magazine and web enhancement is available.

Mines are:


Humans. (PHB)

You know, the humans get those tasty extra skill points and their extra feat is just timely. Also, the non-restriction for multiclassing (with DMs that don't delete that rule) is very nice. They do not get any ability score adjustments, but the extra stuff is just nice.

Strongheart Halflings (FRCS)

I like every kind of halflings, however since I found the strongheart race variant on Forgotten Realms I ask my DMs for allowing it. -2 to Str hurts a bit for melee builds, but the +2 to Dex allows for more AC, saves, skills and some attack rolls (if you take Perfect Strike from Plot and Poison (S&S) you can dump Str almost completely. They get, as humans, an extra feat at level 1st; which is pretty nice. Their size (small) grants them more AC, bonus to attack rolls and some skills, and also they get their halfling bonus to some skills, what else can I ask for? They do not get the +1 to all their saves, but come on, I think this is a fair trade.

[Akal Saris]

I will second your two choices! Those are indeed the most versatile races in 3.5, for the reasons already mentioned.

Oh, and the Able Learner feat is another reason why human is king of versatility.

[Sith_Happens]

Changelings are ridiculously versatile, albeit in a different way, especially with the rogue substitution levels. If it in any way involves nonviolently interacting with NPCs, a changeling rogue can do it.

[Big Fau]

Any human variant (Silverbrow, Azurin, Kalashtar, etc), Changeling, Warforged, Dwarf, and Dragonborn. They can fit almost any role in the entire game flawlessly (the penalties to certain ability scores is irrelevant past level 8).

[navar100]

If you include Pathfinder then it's humans for sure. They get a +2 to any one ability score of the player's choice. Put it in your prime and go to town. Alternatively, make that annoying 8 a 10 and have no negatives. Make that 12 a 14 to fulfill the "Adventurer's Tax" Constitution.

[Yael]

Changelings are ridiculously versatile, albeit in a different way, especially with the rogue substitution levels. If it in any way involves nonviolently interacting with NPCs, a changeling rogue can do it.

Changelings are awesomely awesome with those first 2 substitution levels from Races of Eberron, actually, on 2 levels, you get at least 48 skill points, Sneak Attack (or Fighter Bonus Feats), Social Intuition (Awesome ability) and Evasion (lml). This 2-level dip don't cost too much 'cuz Rogue is the favored class for changelings, so go for it!!


Any human variant (Silverbrow, Azurin, Kalashtar, etc), Changeling, Warforged, Dwarf, and Dragonborn. They can fit almost any role in the entire game flawlessly (the penalties to certain ability scores is irrelevant past level 8).

Humans of every kind are cool. I specially like the Augmented variant from Dragon Magazine #319, it has a LA of +1, though. I don't really know why Warforged could be the most versatile race, but well, individual opinions~~ Dragonborn of Bahamut is a template~~ But it is cool~~


If you include Pathfinder then it's humans for sure. They get a +2 to any one ability score of the player's choice. Put it in your prime and go to town. Alternatively, make that annoying 8 a 10 and have no negatives. Make that 12 a 14 to fulfill the "Adventurer's Tax" Constitution.

I haven't really played Pathfinder. I have Ultimate Combat only, is it cool?

[navar100]

I haven't really played Pathfinder. I have Ultimate Combat only, is it cool?

That is, unfortunately, a loaded question. It's 3E with tweaks. If you like 3E you'll like Pathfinder. If there is something in Pathfinder you're not caring for, you can use 3E's version without any problem.

[Daftendirekt]

If you include Pathfinder then it's humans for sure. They get a +2 to any one ability score of the player's choice.

I'd say Half-Elves tie with Humans in PF actually (which I find amusing due to their absolutely worthless nature in 3.5). Their Skill Focus comes in handy, and if you don't want it there are lots of builds that benefit from free Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Also, they make the best Summoners due to their favored class bonus.

[Frosty]

I'd say Half-Elves tie with Humans in PF actually (which I find amusing due to their absolutely worthless nature in 3.5). Their Skill Focus comes in handy, and if you don't want it there are lots of builds that benefit from free Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Also, they make the best Summoners due to their favored class bonus.Isn't there some sort of wild racial archetype for Half-elf summoners that also grant +1/4 Evolution points? I think you can combine the two...

[kulosle]

I'd have to say Changeling simply because of all the wonderful things they qualify for, than can go into any class, and having the shapechanger type is amazing. The changeling rogue is nice but you can't call a race the most versatile because it has cool substitution levels for one class, especially if that class isn't tier 1.

illumian are really versatile, what with their sigils and all. They can do all sorts of useful and unique things with them, like making your bonus spells based on str. Not optimized but still fun.

[Fyermind]

The test of versatility being pick something, can they do it well, I would have to say kobolds are way up there. With all their racial variants and all the cheese of being able to be dragons for a feat, they can do basically whatever they want.

Next up would be humans, but I don't think humans are much better at prolonged melee and they are certainly worse in everything but the most feat intensive builds for casters.

Strongheart halflings fit somewhere in between humans and Kobolds in terms of their niche, and are superior to humans in most cases with the exceptions of numerous skill points and strength, and size.

[Taveena]

Probably redundant, but I have to say I think that Azurin are pretty versatile, given what you can do with that one point of essentia. On top of the standard human bonus feat.

[koboldish]

Gnomes, by far. You can do everything with gnomes. You can build bridges, fill chasms, make sandwiches, deliver bombs, make houses, etc. You can literally make anything out of gnomes.

[Kaeso]

I'd say any other response than humans (especially the standard humans) is wrong, simply because almost every other race gets penalties on certain stats. The stereotypical dwarven cleric is actually harmed because he gets less out of his turn undead because of his cha penalty. Humans on the other hand get an all round bonus in the form of a free feat (invest it in whatever you like!) and free skill points (invest it in whatever you like!). For a wizard build you can take a metamagic feat and some knowledge skills, for a fighter you can take power attack and ride etc. etc. You can simply adapt it to whatever you'd like.

[Silva Stormrage]

Ya throw my support behind Humans, the extra feat and skill points are versatile.

[Blueiji]

Gnomes, by far. You can do everything with gnomes. You can build bridges, fill chasms, make sandwiches, deliver bombs, make houses, etc. You can literally make anything out of gnomes.

Says the guy (or girl) with Kobold in his username. :smallbiggrin:

[Frosty]

Probably redundant, but I have to say I think that Azurin are pretty versatile, given what you can do with that one point of essentia. On top of the standard human bonus feat.What book are the Azurin from?

Also, I love your avatar! Very cute.

[Chronos]

Azurin are from Magic of Incarnum. Be warned that anything relating to incarnum is weird, and takes a bit of getting used to.

[ericp65]

What book are the Azurin from?

Also, I love your avatar! Very cute.

Magic of Incarnum.

[CyberThread]

I would honestly say the killoren from races of the wild, you have scout, smiting, and some other stuff you can pick from as racial abilties, and the rare plant type.

[Devils_Advocate]

Says the guy (or girl) with Kobold in his username. :smallbiggrin:
Look past the obvious interpretation of koboldish's post. Things can be done with gnomes without being done by gnomes.

It's a subtle joke, see? (The best kind of joke.)

[Gildedragon]

Humans, hands down.
The subraces only accentuate this further. I can praise the athasian ones to no end: powers and +2 to two scores really toes the line for their LA.
Changelings are amazing too: social powerhouses, they can be anyone.
Half orcs are my third choice if only because they are the only int-penalty race that can play a wizard well.

[123456789blaaa]

Humans, hands down.
The subraces only accentuate this further. I can praise the athasian ones to no end: powers and +2 to two scores really toes the line for their LA.
Changelings are amazing too: social powerhouses, they can be anyone.
Half orcs are my third choice if only because they are the only int-penalty race that can play a wizard well.

Could you expand on this? I'm not seeing it.

[Gildedragon]

Could you expand on this? I'm not seeing it.
The Thogaturge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195049)

[123456789blaaa]

The Thogaturge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195049)

...awesome :smallcool:

[Crasical]

I was under the impression that small-size was pretty crippling to melee-types, strength penalty notwithstanding.

[Vaz]

Not really. +2AC (Small and higher Dex) goes quite a long way, plus you can ride Medium creatures which in turn are more efficient mounts than large, and you open yourself up for classes like Halfling Outrider.

[Eslin]

Changeling, hands down. They can make any melee class good with warshaper, boost mental stats with racial emulation/dragonborn and use racial emulation to pick and choose all the best racial substitution levels - kobold fighter, gnome paladin, shifter druid, elf wizard, halfling monk, azurin cleric, go nuts!

[Vknight]

Isn't there some sort of wild racial archetype for Half-elf summoners that also grant +1/4 Evolution points? I think you can combine the two...

+1/4 to Evolution Pool. Not 1/4 a point a 25% increase to the total pool....
Lvl 8, 200% more fun!! Or 33 evolution points. At level 20 500% more for a total of 130 Evolution Points

The top races depends.

Pathfinder
Half-Elf & Human

3.5
Human & Changeling(reign supreme)
Followed by
Strongheart Halflings & Gnomes

[Malak'ai]

Not really. +2AC (Small and higher Dex) goes quite a long way, plus you can ride Medium creatures which in turn are more efficient mounts than large, and you open yourself up for classes like Halfling Outrider.

Forget Halfling Outrider. Get a special saddle put on the party Barbarian's shoulders and carry a lance. May not be optimal but damn it'd look cool.

[Waker]

Changeling, hands down. They can make any melee class good with warshaper, boost mental stats with racial emulation/dragonborn and use racial emulation to pick and choose all the best racial substitution levels - kobold fighter, gnome paladin, shifter druid, elf wizard, halfling monk, azurin cleric, go nuts!

Glad someone else pointed out Racial Emulation. Being able to double dip the Changeling racial ACFs along with the other racial ACFs for Rogue and Wizard are great. Want to be super good at Illusions, pick and choose from either Changeling or Gnome when making a Wizard.
Illumians are also quite nice, with their eays around MAD and encouraging multiclassing.

[jywu98]

Humans and Strongheart Halflings, of course. That extra feat goes a long way.

[kestrel404]

I'm going to buck the trend and say Dragonborn.

Why? Because it's a race which is also a template. You can take any other race in D&D and substitute their racial abilities for the Dragonborn racial abilities - which are AWESOME.

What you get from Dragonborn -
The dragonblooded subtype - a keyword which unlocks hundreds of feats, classes, spells, powers and pieces of gear from various supplements.
+2 Con, -2 Dex - Everyone likes con. Everyone. (Except maybe undead and non-living constructs...)
Immunity to Frightful Presence & Dodge bonus against dragons - situationally useful
A new lease on life - this is great for getting rid of the stat penalties that come from aging. When you become a dragonborn, you're instantly an Adult, with 200 years of life before entering Middle-aged.
An Additional favored class (even if it's fighter) - you can now 2-level-dip fighter at no penalty?
Plus, choose one of:
Flight (Only glide until level 6, but always useful)
Breath Weapon (Once every 1d4 rounds, damage increases with HD, and you can change the energy type every time you use it!)
Draconic Immunities (Meh)

What you keep from your old race -
Creature type - apply template to Outsider, and you're still an outsider!
Movement speeds of all types - Earth Mephling Dragonborn have burrow!
Ability modifiers - Just apply the inherent +2 con/-2 dex of the Dragonborn on top.
Hit Dice & Levels - obviously
Level Adjustment - Since this is an LA +0 template
The ability to take stuff based on your previous race

What you lose from your old race -
Everything else, both good and bad - this means you can happily stick this template on any race that has 'negative' racial features (like Light sensitivity). This can also be used to replace really useless abilities (the 'breath weapons' on the Mephling which can only be used 1/day for little to no effect) with actually useful racial abilities.

All of that, as opposed to a bonus feat. I think the Dragonborn wins out on versatility.

[Yael]

I would actually add the Tibbit race (DMC).

Small, halfling-like abilities, rogue as favored class and that polymorph-like ability that they posees that transforms them into a cat. Useful for roleplaying and I find it specially fun~~

[Emperor Tippy]

Elves.

You get 4 bonus feats at the cost of a bit of gold and the various subtypes can fulfill pretty much any combination of racial ability score bonuses.

[Jeff the Green]

It's been mentioned a few times, but I'll expand on Illumians.

While they don't get the bonus feat that makes humans so nice, they do get some fairly unique abilities. They can enter PrCs faster than most classes with Improved Sigil (Krau), which is more useful in se than other options like Precocious Apprentice. They make paladins, rangers, archer clerics, and the like more viable by reducing MADness. They can get a +2 bonus to any skill you want. They get a mini-Practiced Spellcaster, which works with Warlock and, I think, psionics. They can get a version of DMM that is limited in uses per day but works with arcane spells.

Basically, they bring something to every class. Plus they count as Humans, so can get Human-only feats and take Human-only classes.

[Marnath]

+1/4 to Evolution Pool. Not 1/4 a point a 25% increase to the total pool....
Lvl 8, 200% more fun!! Or 33 evolution points. At level 20 500% more for a total of 130 Evolution Points



No, that is explicitly not how it works. You have to take that favored class bonus for 4 levels before it gets you a whole point for your evolution pool. At level 20 you've gotten a whole 5 points if you took it every level. Read the rules for racial favored classes if you don't believe me.

[Chronos]

kestrel404, one particularly good choice for the base of a Dragonborn is Warforged. Almost all of the goodies a Warforged gets are the result of its type and subtype, which Dragonborn keeps. And you get to stack +con twice, which is great for tanks and Dragonfire Adepts, and pretty darned good for everyone else.

[Yael]

Elves.

You get 4 bonus feats at the cost of a bit of gold and the various subtypes can fulfill pretty much any combination of racial ability score bonuses.

How's that?
I didn't know that elves get so much things, as you are saying it. Am I missing something, right?

[Bakkan]

How's that?
I didn't know that elves get so much things, as you are saying it. Am I missing something, right?

Emperor Tippy is pointing out that Elves get the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for longbow, shortbow, longsword, and rapier as a racial feature. Then, for a little gold (either to pay a caster or buy the scrolls yourself) you can perform the Dark Chaos Feat Shufle on those four feats.

For anyone unfamiliar with the process.

Step 1: Cast (or have cast) Embrace the Dark Chaos on yourself. This spell changes one of your feats into an Abssal Heritor feat.
Step 2: Cast (or have cast) Shun the Dark Chaos on yourself. This spell changes an Abyssal Heritor feat you have into another feat you qualify for.
Step 3: Profit. You have now changed those four Matrial Weapon Proficiency feats that you probably weren't using anyway into four feats that will actually help your build.

EDIT: for the other part of Tippy's point, between High Elves, Wood Elves, Wild Elves, Gray Elves, Aquatic Elves, Sun Elves, and half a dozen others that I don't recall at theoment, you will probably be able to find a variant that has sstat adjustments amenable to your build.

[Vknight]

No, that is explicitly not how it works. You have to take that favored class bonus for 4 levels before it gets you a whole point for your evolution pool. At level 20 you've gotten a whole 5 points if you took it every level. Read the rules for racial favored classes if you don't believe me.

Yes

Half-Elf
Add +1/4 to the eidolon’s evolution pool

Goblin
Add +1/4 evolution point to the eidolon's evolution pool. Followed by a stipulation on the points must be spent towards fire in some way

See. +1/4 to the evolution pool compared too, +1/4 evolution point.

[Marnath]

Yes

Half-Elf
Add +1/4 to the eidolon’s evolution pool

Goblin
Add +1/4 evolution point to the eidolon's evolution pool. Followed by a stipulation on the points must be spent towards fire in some way

See. +1/4 to the evolution pool compared too, +1/4 evolution point.
:smallsigh:
No. The sample is a dwarf rogue who adds +1/2 to his trapsense. You'll notice the example does not say that his trapsense goes up by 50% every time, even though it doesn't specify a +1/2 bonus. Rather it explicitly mentions that at level 20 he gets a +10 bonus. Just because half-elf summoner doesn't include the word point that doesn't mean that it suddenly starts increasing your whole pool exponentially. It's not even RAW, just wishful thinking.

[ArcturusV]

Not quite as lovely as the Stronghearts, Humans, but heck, I also like the Spirit Folk as a base race. It's all just nifty bonuses for me. No penalties. Not quite as good as an extra feat or skill point. Handy bonuses, decent spell like ability (Free Trackless Step all the time? Why not). Gets the Spirit Subtype which is otherwise something I don't see ways to get.

I usually find use out of their bonus. It's never come up to penalize me in any way.

[Ruethgar]

If third party 3.0 is in, then most of the elves are by far superior to strongheart and human. AEG's Evil handbook, Infernal Pact first level and take wealth for both of the flaws(one still works). Buy a chaos shuffle at level one and have a 4 extra feats at level one.

[kestrel404]

If third party 3.0 is in, then most of the elves are by far superior to strongheart and human. AEG's Evil handbook, Infernal Pact first level and take wealth for both of the flaws(one still works). Buy a chaos shuffle at level one and have a 4 extra feats at level one.

...So you get 4 feats for 2 flaws? I suppose that's better than a human...by 1 feat.

It's only a good tactic if you're starting above level 1, or the GM lets you get away with the Chaos Shuffle without spending money.

Of course, it's only valid if the GM is allowing the Chaos shuffle at all.

[Vknight]

:smallsigh:
No. The sample is a dwarf rogue who adds +1/2 to his trapsense. You'll notice the example does not say that his trapsense goes up by 50% every time, even though it doesn't specify a +1/2 bonus. Rather it explicitly mentions that at level 20 he gets a +10 bonus. Just because half-elf summoner doesn't include the word point that doesn't mean that it suddenly starts increasing your whole pool exponentially. It's not even RAW, just wishful thinking.

+1/2 a bonus. So you need two levels to make the bonus be +1.
It notes its a +1/2 bonus for each time you take it. Added onto your normal Trap Sense.

Half-Elves does not say that. As worded its +1/4 Evolution Pool so taking it from level 1-20 would give you Evolution Pool*6.

I agree with you fully that its wrong.
Its a printing error or what have you but as written that is what it appears to be. And as written makes Half-Elves awesome

[Zombulian]

I like Exiled Dwarves from Dragon Mag 320. They get most of the awesome stuff from Dwarves, and a bonus feat like a human.

[Tvtyrant]

I think the Illumians are perhaps the most versatile. They can choose Divine Metamagic as a racial feature for instance, or get a variety of lesser bonuses.

[Zombulian]

I think the Illumians are perhaps the most versatile. They can choose Divine Metamagic as a racial feature for instance, or get a variety of lesser bonuses.

Choose DMM as... Wot. Relay to me your secrets o' great one.

Edit: Nvm went and reread Illumian. And... WHAT? Wha... I... What.

[Ruethgar]

...So you get 4 feats for 2 flaws? I suppose that's better than a human...by 1 feat.

It's only a good tactic if you're starting above level 1, or the GM lets you get away with the Chaos Shuffle without spending money.

Of course, it's only valid if the GM is allowing the Chaos shuffle at all.

You get four extra feats to a total of 7, and the bit about AEG Evil was so that you do pay for the Chaos Shuffle. You also piss off a devil, but 7 feats! Plus you can spend those 4 racial feats on more wealth before re-re-writing them. Watch out for this guy (http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp04152004.shtml) though.

Edit: Also note that you can take fighter at first level for an extra re-writable feat.

[Zombulian]

I'd like to add another possible race to this list: Hellbred. Penalties to abilities - as pointed out before - are irrelevant by level 8. The body variety get 3 bonus feats by lvl 14 to be chaos shuffled. The mind variety get dark vision (even in magical darkness) and telepathy.

[Tvtyrant]

Choose DMM as... Wot. Relay to me your secrets o' great one.

Edit: Nvm went and reread Illumian. And... WHAT? Wha... I... What.

It gets better! Divine Metamagic forces you to pick a specific metamagic feat to apply it to. Illumian lets you apply it willy-nilly, so you can use it on quicken or empower at low levels and then persist later. Only 2 per day, but it also applies to arcane spells you know as well. Pretty sexy.

[Zombulian]

It gets better! Divine Metamagic forces you to pick a specific metamagic feat to apply it to. Illumian lets you apply it willy-nilly, so you can use it on quicken or empower at low levels and then persist later. Only 2 per day, but it also applies to arcane spells you know as well. Pretty sexy.

DAMN sexy.
I've gotta figure out how to get Turn Attempts on an Ultimate Magus build now...

[Squirrel_Dude]

I'd say Half-Elves tie with Humans in PF actually (which I find amusing due to their absolutely worthless nature in 3.5). Their Skill Focus comes in handy, and if you don't want it there are lots of builds that benefit from free Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Also, they make the best Summoners due to their favored class bonus.HAHAHAHAHA
Half Elves getting skill focus used to be a benefit, but not anymore. Thanks to the advanced race guide.


Focused Study: All humans are skillful, but some, rather than being generalists, tend to specialize in a handful of skills. At 1st, 8th, and 16th level, such humans gain Skill Focus in a skill of their choice as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.:furious:

[Ruethgar]

DAMN sexy.
I've gotta figure out how to get Turn Attempts on an Ultimate Magus build now...

Sorcerer or wizard with CC domain access or granted power for Earth/Fire/Water/Cold. If 3rd party 3.0 is in, Quentisential Sorcerer divine receptacle for the same thing at level one with RP cost instead spells.

[Tvtyrant]

DAMN sexy.
I've gotta figure out how to get Turn Attempts on an Ultimate Magus build now...

See I was actually thinking about an Illumian Chameleon build, something like Cleric 1/Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/Factotum 4. You get turn attempts like a level 11 Cleric and can apply them to all arcane or divine spells of 6th level or less. Factotum gets you into Chameleon, and then nets you extra standard actions in the higher levels.

[Zombulian]

See I was actually thinking about an Illumian Chameleon build, something like Cleric 1/Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/Factotum 4. You get turn attempts like a level 11 Cleric and can apply them to all arcane or divine spells of 6th level or less. Factotum gets you into Chameleon, and then nets you extra standard actions in the higher levels.

Oh yeah that'd be pretty cool. I was thinking Wizard 9/Nar Demonbinder 1/Ultimate Magus 10.
Pick up the Mother Cyst feat for spontaneous low level spells, pick up some type of domain from CC for Turn Attempts, Illumian gives you free DMM (:DDDD). By level 20 with no items, CL 21 NBD, CL 23 Wiz.