CR seems waaaaaaaaaaay off.

[kiryoku]

So I made a construct for later in the campaign. A shadesteel golem with sacred guardian of Hextor (war domain). I think the 18 feats it gets might make it slightly over powered compared to the base one. o-o it also gets 228 skill points to use. Its at 54HD and 14 INT. 54+3X4(2INT+2race skill points.)=228
Its also intelligent and can take complex commands now. It says to raise its CR by 2 for sacred guardian. But the massive increase in feats and skills makes it hard to judge what it should be now. It seems like it breeched the CR20 area with the feats because I gave it the whole crit boosting line even the epic stuff. so its save or die each time it crits. Though I did pick the heavy flail for flavor reasons as its hextor's weapon his clerics use. It now does 3D8+25 17-20/x2 +1D6 on crit+DC fort 54 or die. It also has power attack, both cleaves,combat reflexes, spellcasting harriar, and both improved vison feats from the epic book making its DV 120ft and its LLV X4 instead of two.

Whole creature.

Sacred Guardian of Hextor (war domain)(shadesteel golem)
Huge construct (extraplanar, augmented)
HD:54D10+60 (357 hp)
Initiative: +3
speed: 30ft, 30ft fly (perfect)
AC: 43 (-2size, +3dex, +32 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 40
BA/G: +32/+57
Attack: Slams +47 (4D8+17) or Heavy flail +48 (3D8+25 17-20/x2)
FA: 2 Slams +47 (4D8+17) or Heavy Flail +48/43/38/33 (3D8+25 17-20/x2)
F/R: 15ft by 15ft/ 15ft
SA: negative energy pulse (Every 1D4+1 in a 40ft burst 12D6 negative energy DC fort 37 for half damage), Spiritual weapon 2/day CL 54 (54 turns of 1D8+15 force heavy flail under your control. standard action to cast. move action to direct it to attack.)
SQ:Construct traits, DR 20/ Adamantine and magic and good, darkviosn 120ft, low light vison x4, fast healing 5, Magic Immuntiy (Light based spells and positive energy haste it for 2D4 rounds, darkness based spells heal it 1 hp per spell level.
Saves: Fort +23, Reflex +26, Will +25
Abilities: Str 44, Dex 16, Con-, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 12
Skills: 166 skill points worth more, Hide 40, Move Silently 40
Feats: Power attack, cleave, great cleave, weapon pro (heavy flail), weapon focus (heavy flail), Improved crit (heavy flail), Overwhelming crit (heavy flail), Devastating crit (heavy flail), combat reflexes, Spellcasting Harrier, Improved darkvision, Improved low-light vision, darkstalker, armor pro (light, med, heavy), Improved bullrush, shock trooper
CR: 22

Notes: Heavy flail on crit (+1D6 extra damage and DC fort or die 54), Shadow blend (can hide anywhere besides in direct sunlight or in the radius of a sunlight spell.), +16 to move silently and +12 to hide racial skill bonus.


Edits: skill points and feats and (CR thanks to tyckspoon)

[Deaxsa]

CR can be totally, completely, obscenely erroneous. only use it as a (very) rough guideline. for instance: a 5-headed hydra fighting 4 level 5 PCs has a pretty good chance of causing 4 deaths, at least, compared to other CR 5 monsters

[tyckspoon]

CR is often pretty whacky, but I think the part you're missing is the extra CR for the HD advancement; Monster Manual says Constructs get 1 CR/4 extra HD. Start with a Greater Shadesteel Golem at CR 14, add 27 HD. 27/4 = 6 (and 3/4, but D&D rounds down) more CR, +2 for the template gives you a by-the-book CR of 22. I will make no guarantees as to whether or not this is an accurate number of how challenging this thing actually will be to a party (it might be, but that's mostly because Shadesteels are pretty nasty to start with) but that's the official number if you want to figure out how much XP and treasure the encounter should be worth.

[kiryoku]

Well then I guess I just need some feats and skills then. XD some minor ranks in a few skills might help. Hide and move silently with two feats that make them immune to things that would normaly bone it on sneaking. Hmmm still leaves four feats left though and alot of skill points.

[mregecko]

To be fair, it's pretty easy to kill.

350hp and a 42 AC (11 touch) should be down-able in one round with a well built melee character, or an optimized caster (which should never even get close to the thing to start with).

The Devastating Critical DC is pretty nasty, given.... But it requires a confirmed critical, and the thing has no way to get past invisibility, mirror images, miss chance, etc. And a lot of melee at this level have critical immunity too.

Its damage output is about in line with what I'd expect from a CR20 creature.

Overall, I'd probably rather fight this than a CR 20 red dragon with good spell choices and feats that don't suck.

[kiryoku]

Well I wasn't sure yet but I was thinking of giving it mithreal full plate to up its armor. o-o Nimble +1 is a given as it works as it affects the armor itself not the golem. Some magic armor also puts off light. o-o so I wonder if that would work. Infinite haste due to armor. XD

[mregecko]

Well I wasn't sure yet but I was thinking of giving it mithreal full plate to up its armor. o-o Nimble +1 is a given as it works as it affects the armor itself not the golem. Some magic armor also puts off light. o-o so I wonder if that would work. Infinite haste due to armor. XD

That's using three feats on Heavy Armor Proficiency (it's heavy armor for proficiency, treated as medium armor for usage because of mithral). But +9 to armor would be nice. It still doesn't help touch AC for casters though (Orb of X).

Assuming +9 mithral full plate, gives it an AC of 51, which is considerably better. At this level, I expect melee'ers to have at least a STR of 30, BAB+17, +5 weapons, and +5 in other circumstantial bonuses (charging, luck, haste, etc). A +37 to hit vs a 51 AC is pretty good odds for the monster. Definitely increases survivability.

And yes, some magic armor gives off light, but it's not explicitly a magical effect with the [Light] descriptor. I'd vote "no" on that.

[kiryoku]

True. o-o But I could also give its elemental resist 30 to everything on its armor too. makes it suddenly a lot less vulnerable to said orbs.This is why I am asking. I want to see the holes in my build and actualy I would only need Medium armor pro as it makes medium because the only thing that makes armor in different weight classes is its ease of use. being suddenly 25lbs lighter makes it drop one.

[mregecko]

I used to think that too, but was corrected / mistaken. It specifically says:

"mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations."

It doesn't say for purposes of proficiency for usage, just for movement and limitations (evasion, etc). Which, if you think about it, makes sense... Part of proficiency isn't just being able to carry it. A lot of it has to do with knowing how to put it on / take it off / move in it / knowing where your blind spots are, etc. You still need heavy armor proficiency to know how to use full plate, regardless of the metal.

But yes, throwing on some nice armor enchantments to it would be helpful as well.

Keep in mind though that giving monsters items of appreciable gold value alters their CR. They are given inherent immunities, special abilities, etc... Specifically to set them apart from PC's and negate the necessity of equipping them.

[Spuddles]

To be fair, it's pretty easy to kill.

350hp and a 42 AC (11 touch) should be down-able in one round with a well built melee character, or an optimized caster (which should never even get close to the thing to start with).

The Devastating Critical DC is pretty nasty, given.... But it requires a confirmed critical, and the thing has no way to get past invisibility, mirror images, miss chance, etc. And a lot of melee at this level have critical immunity too.

Its damage output is about in line with what I'd expect from a CR20 creature.

Overall, I'd probably rather fight this than a CR 20 red dragon with good spell choices and feats that don't suck.

Exactly this.

The virtual auto death on crits would be a nasty surprise, for sure, but at that level once someone got dropped by it, it'd just end up in a barred forcecage and plinked to death.

[kiryoku]

True but most have glaring flaws that make some interesting monsters next to useless at the level they get called in. Plus I was hoping to make it into a spy/undead booster. It has INT so it can do complex tasks and report on them as I can put a few skill points into languages I built it with knowing at construction. So then it can tell me whats up. It never says it can't talk it just doesn't have a language. Well I do have 5 feets so three into armor then I might as well do the races of stone armor gives plus 9 base and make it plus five so it gives 14 to ac. with the nimble +6 armor total with the resistances not adding pluses but only money. Not sure what kind of weapon to give it. Probably make sense flavor wise to give it stuff that a cleric of hextor would put on his weapon. Bane vs its most hatted creatures, unholy possilby, keen, speed, a few other thing.

[KillianHawkeye]

I used to think that too, but was corrected / mistaken. It specifically says:

"mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations."

It doesn't say for purposes of proficiency for usage, just for movement and limitations (evasion, etc). Which, if you think about it, makes sense... Part of proficiency isn't just being able to carry it. A lot of it has to do with knowing how to put it on / take it off / move in it / knowing where your blind spots are, etc. You still need heavy armor proficiency to know how to use full plate, regardless of the metal.

Incorrect, mithral full-plate is listed as a Medium armor in Races of the Wild.

[Gavinfoxx]

It's only in Pathfinder, no 3.5e, that you need heavy armor proficiency to wear mithral full plate.

[ksbsnowowl]

Regarding the original topic, that of the appropriate CR for your advanced Shadesteel Golem:

From the SRD section on improving monsters by adding HD:


In general, once you’ve doubled a creature’s CR, you should closely watch any additional increases in its abilities. Adding Hit Dice to a creature improves several of its abilities, and radical increases might not follow this progression indefinitely. Compare the monster’s improved attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and any DCs of its special abilities from the HD increase to typical characters of the appropriate level and adjust the CR accordingly.

IIRC, a character's Good saves should have a ~50% success rate against the abilities of the foe.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Incorrect, mithral full-plate is listed as a Medium armor in Races of the Wild.

Confirmed - it's also referenced in the Magic Item Compendium as Medium.

[mangosta71]

If you're worried about people sneaking up on it, give it the Lifesense feat from Libris Mortis (p28).