Help Me Make the Winchesters from Supernatural

[Sugashane]

I am blending an idea from the Supernatural series and from the Shannarra series (Elfstones of Shannara to be specific) and the veil separating the PCs world from the demon's (non-traditional D&D demons) prison plane is opened and they have to fight the new demons, close the veil, and exterminate the ones that escaped before being able to close it.

I am running this game and want them to be some of the main NPCs that are really integral for the PCs next quest, which they are going to be an average of level 14-15 to start, and I want the Winchester brothers to each be level 16 or so.

The biggest reason I ask is because I want the "Sam" to have the psionic abilities he had when he was on demon blood, but I have a lot of work to do to learn about psionics, as I have never used them before. And they will be the ones who begin as tutors and teach the PCs the weaknesses of these new creatures and to add more of the mythological depth to my world. After the Pcs get their handle on the thing, the Wichester brothers might be called off or just leave after letting a PC player take control.

Any help is appreciated, thanks!

[wayfare]

I am blending an idea from the Supernatural series and from the Shannarra series (Elfstones of Shannara to be specific) and the veil separating the PCs world from the demon's (non-traditional D&D demons) prison plane is opened and they have to fight the new demons, close the veil, and exterminate the ones that escaped before being able to close it.

I am running this game and want them to be some of the main NPCs that are really integral for the PCs next quest, which they are going to be an average of level 14-15 to start, and I want the Winchester brothers to each be level 16 or so.

The biggest reason I ask is because I want the "Sam" to have the psionic abilities he had when he was on demon blood, but I have a lot of work to do to learn about psionics, as I have never used them before. And they will be the ones who begin as tutors and teach the PCs the weaknesses of these new creatures and to add more of the mythological depth to my world. After the Pcs get their handle on the thing, the Wichester brothers might be called off or just leave after letting a PC player take control.

Any help is appreciated, thanks!

Ummm...thats really high for the Winchesters...

I'd say, make Sam a Wilder, that way you only have to learn a few abilities. A 16th level Wilder knows a grand total of "9" psionic powers, but can boost his manifester level by 5 when he wants to.

Or go Fighter 7, Psion (seer) 8.

[Frosty]

The Winchesters mostly use knowledge, alchemical substances, and plot armor to survive, plus a large dallop of luck. I just don't see them as being magical at all.

[wayfare]

The Winchesters mostly use knowledge, alchemical substances, and plot armor to survive, plus a large dallop of luck. I just don't see them as being magical at all.

Sam was for a while, but his stuff was almost like PrC granted abilities rather than spells or powers.

Edit: I could see sam as an Adept, except he is too good of a fighter.

[angry_bear]

Sam was for a while, but his stuff was almost like PrC granted abilities rather than spells or powers.

Edit: I could see sam as an Adept, except he is too good of a fighter.

Although he isn't typically as good of a fighter as Dean. So it could stand to reason that he's just really good ability scores.

I'd probably multiclass Dean as a Fighter/Rogue, and Sam as Fighter/Rogue/Sorcerer, or a class that does a balanced job of combining two of those three classes. I don't think I'd include Psionics in his build at all... Maybe give him the Fiendish template I guess? It sort of fits with his backstory. It's not ideal, but it'd work alright I think.

[Kyberwulf]

I think sam is more of a template added to him as a baby. He seems like a ..Demon vampire. You know, like a vampire that gets his power from sucking on the blood of demons.

[DMVerdandi]

I am blending an idea from the Supernatural series and from the Shannarra series (Elfstones of Shannara to be specific) and the veil separating the PCs world from the demon's (non-traditional D&D demons) prison plane is opened and they have to fight the new demons, close the veil, and exterminate the ones that escaped before being able to close it.

I am running this game and want them to be some of the main NPCs that are really integral for the PCs next quest, which they are going to be an average of level 14-15 to start, and I want the Winchester brothers to each be level 16 or so.

The biggest reason I ask is because I want the "Sam" to have the psionic abilities he had when he was on demon blood, but I have a lot of work to do to learn about psionics, as I have never used them before. And they will be the ones who begin as tutors and teach the PCs the weaknesses of these new creatures and to add more of the mythological depth to my world. After the Pcs get their handle on the thing, the Wichester brothers might be called off or just leave after letting a PC player take control.

Any help is appreciated, thanks!

Use an Erudite.
They have under 11 powers usable, but can choose what powers they can use per day with "unique powers per day".

With it you can cherry pick all of the best psion/wilder powers, and all of the discipline powers up to level 8.

For Sam, the main powers I would focus on would be

1.Psychic Vampire
2.Power resistance
3.Read Thoughts
4.Animal affinity/Biofeedback
5.Control Body
6.Banishment, Psionic

For first season powers, Use Clairsentience powers to taste.
If you want even more options, pick the Spell to Power ACF.
Use it to manifest spells. Using spells from Book of Vile Darkness for the really dark stuff.

For Dean, Honestly, I would make him an archivist. Their dad's book is a great prayerbook. Plus Dark Knowledge... C'mon. Probably PRC into sacred exorcist or something for the BAB.

I would use the modern firearms in the DMG as well.


So sam is using psychic powers to hijack dark magics that randomly manifest, but aren't overwhelming in scope, yet potent.

And dean is still using some dark stuff, but it is divine magic that everyone can learn. Alignment seals, abjurations, banishments... ect. And he is better at finding the weaknesses in these creepy crawlies.

[Frosty]

You know, their stats really depends. Which season of Supernatural are we talking about? If we're talking about when...

SPOILER ALERT
Sam has the Devil in his head, then we can have LOTs of fun...

[Waker]

The Archivist idea is kinda funny. You might also consider giving one or both of them the Collector of Stories skill trick and Knowledge Devotion. Make Dean a Bard and have him sing nothing but Metal and Power Ballads.

[wayfare]

The Archivist idea is kinda funny. You might also consider giving one or both of them the Collector of Stories skill trick and Knowledge Devotion. Make Dean a Bard and have him sing nothing but Metal and Power Ballads.

Oh god. YESSSSSSSSSS.

For me, Sam and Dean look like this:

Sam
Favored Soul 5

Dean
Fighter 3, Rogue 2,

[Waker]

Oh god. YESSSSSSSSSS.

For me, Sam and Dean look like this:

Sam
Favored Soul 5

Dean
Fighter 3, Rogue 2,

I like how no one has suggested Ranger for either of them, despite having stuff like Favored Enemy, good BAB, saves and lots of skill points. Swap out the outdoorsy stuff with their urban equivalents. Maybe go the Swift Hunter route?
It wouldn't be terrible to suggest Crusader as well. Both of them regularly take a beating in the show and keep coming back for more.

[wayfare]

I like how no one has suggested Ranger for either of them, despite having stuff like Favored Enemy, good BAB, saves and lots of skill points. Swap out the outdoorsy stuff with their urban equivalents. Maybe go the Swift Hunter route?
It wouldn't be terrible to suggest Crusader as well. Both of them regularly take a beating in the show and keep coming back for more.

Ranger has spell potential, though. Thats just never gonna be Dean. Is theer another way to gain Favored enemy?

[Frosty]

There's plenty of ACFs and archetypes that trade away spellcasting...

[Arc_knight25]

I think that this idea is awesome. I would make them both gestalt. There NPC's so why not make them overpowered, they're the PC's mentors and in the end bugger off to find the next baddy.

They could easily be communicating with the PC's via Sending. They keep moving town to town ahead of the PC's till the end of the season...i mean campaign in which the PC's and the Brothers go toe to toe with the great big baddies.

I would love updates on how this campaign goes. Supernatural is a hilariously great show.

[Waker]

Ranger has spell potential, though. Thats just never gonna be Dean. Is theer another way to gain Favored enemy?

The spells are no issue, there are two different ACFs that remove it (Champion of the Wild CC and Spell-less Ranger CW).
As for getting Favored Enemy, there are a few ways, but I would have to dig into my library to find out. I think the Cyran Avenger PrC grants it, but not certain. The Ranger Knight from Dragon #317 grants it if my memory serves (if you took this class, say the Impala is your special mount).


They could easily be communicating with the PC's via Sending. They keep moving town to town ahead of the PC's till the end of the season...i mean campaign in which the PC's and the Brothers go toe to toe with the great big baddies.
Or they could leave notes with coordinates, requiring the PCs to use Knowledge (Geography)...

[Talionis]

I was wondering if maybe they don't have some spell casting ability. Both are able to cast spells to exorcize demons and angels away. They know how to poor salt and keep ghosts away, I'm not sure if you could mimic that with Protection type spells.

They seem to be able to cast ritual type spells that require ingredients.

Factotum might be a good class for Dean. He gets some of the casting and Divine abilities but they aren't particularly strong or what a Factotum does.

Dean might be Ranger, even with the eventual casting stuff most of the Ranger spell list is pretty innocuous.

I would say that Bobby is the Archivist. He is more frail, but has the history casting spells.

But in general spellcasting in the Supernatural universe seems to be more involved, especially in time than casting in the D&D universe.

[Frosty]

Dean has...a LOT of ranks in UMD. So does Sam, really. They'd use scrolls a lot to replicate what they do in the show.

[Sugashane]

Ummm...thats really high for the Winchesters...
I'd say, make Sam a Wilder, that way you only have to learn a few abilities. A 16th level Wilder knows a grand total of "9" psionic powers, but can boost his manifester level by 5 when he wants to.

Or go Fighter 7, Psion (seer) 8.

I understand, most characters go from top-tier of humanity to superhuman in level 4 to 5 if I remember correctly. I just want them to be able to survive in the "war" and I have never pulled any punches on NPCs, they'll die as fast as a PC in my games. They don’t have to be on par in pure battle, but they have to be able to be strong and skilled enough to educate and still not be a hindrance in any of the imminent battles to come.


Although he isn't typically as good of a fighter as Dean. So it could stand to reason that he's just really good ability scores.

I'd probably multiclass Dean as a Fighter/Rogue, and Sam as Fighter/Rogue/Sorcerer, or a class that does a balanced job of combining two of those three classes. I don't think I'd include Psionics in his build at all... Maybe give him the Fiendish template I guess? It sort of fits with his backstory. It's not ideal, but it'd work alright I think.
Well said. I think the fiendish template may be a solid start for him. I’d be happy to eliminate psionics, but I’ll probably ask players if they are wanting to play a class with it at all, if so I’ll still need to start introducing it somehow.


Use an Erudite.
They have under 11 powers usable, but can choose what powers they can use per day with "unique powers per day".

With it you can cherry pick all of the best psion/wilder powers, and all of the discipline powers up to level 8.

For Sam, the main powers I would focus on would be

1.Psychic Vampire
2.Power resistance
3.Read Thoughts
4.Animal affinity/Biofeedback
5.Control Body
6.Banishment, Psionic

For first season powers, Use Clairsentience powers to taste.
If you want even more options, pick the Spell to Power ACF.
Use it to manifest spells. Using spells from Book of Vile Darkness for the really dark stuff.

For Dean, Honestly, I would make him an archivist. Their dad's book is a great prayerbook. Plus Dark Knowledge... C'mon. Probably PRC into sacred exorcist or something for the BAB.

I would use the modern firearms in the DMG as well.


So sam is using psychic powers to hijack dark magics that randomly manifest, but aren't overwhelming in scope, yet potent.

And dean is still using some dark stuff, but it is divine magic that everyone can learn. Alignment seals, abjurations, banishments... ect. And he is better at finding the weaknesses in these creepy crawlies.

Great idea, I always forget about Erudite. That would also let the Dean build take a bit of superiority in melee as well. Archivist, even if only a few levels would add a lot of flavor.


The Archivist idea is kinda funny. You might also consider giving one or both of them the Collector of Stories skill trick and Knowledge Devotion. Make Dean a Bard and have him sing nothing but Metal and Power Ballads.
No matter the build, this is going to be included. It is now a must.


I like how no one has suggested Ranger for either of them, despite having stuff like Favored Enemy, good BAB, saves and lots of skill points. Swap out the outdoorsy stuff with their urban equivalents. Maybe go the Swift Hunter route?
It wouldn't be terrible to suggest Crusader as well. Both of them regularly take a beating in the show and keep coming back for more.

And as Frosty and Walker suggested there are ACF to trade Dean’s spellcasting away if need be. He will definitely be more martial focused of the two so this is an idea that really pairs with their backstory.


I think that this idea is awesome. I would make them both gestalt. There NPC's so why not make them overpowered, they're the PC's mentors and in the end bugger off to find the next baddy.

They could easily be communicating with the PC's via Sending. They keep moving town to town ahead of the PC's till the end of the season...i mean campaign in which the PC's and the Brothers go toe to toe with the great big baddies.

I would love updates on how this campaign goes. Supernatural is a hilariously great show.

Great idea! They could be there for a bit, there could be a climactic battle that separates the party from the PCs, and then this could be the result (after the PCs have been educated enough to handle themselves). Being gestalt due to their creators divine intentions for them could also be the reasoning for them being a overpowered. I’ll need to add latitude/longitude to my maps of course, and make sure if no one has knowledge (geography) that the brothers educate them on it a little at least.

I’d be happy to update on it as it starts, right now we are likely a month out before they finish this campaign, as I make an end goal campaign with several minor quests within each one. I also love the show, we (my wife and I) just started over season 1.


I was wondering if maybe they don't have some spell casting ability. Both are able to cast spells to exorcize demons and angels away. They know how to poor salt and keep ghosts away, I'm not sure if you could mimic that with Protection type spells.

They seem to be able to cast ritual type spells that require ingredients.

Factotum might be a good class for Dean. He gets some of the casting and Divine abilities but they aren't particularly strong or what a Factotum does.

Dean might be Ranger, even with the eventual casting stuff most of the Ranger spell list is pretty innocuous.

I would say that Bobby is the Archivist. He is more frail, but has the history casting spells.

But in general spellcasting in the Supernatural universe seems to be more involved, especially in time than casting in the D&D universe.
Ah, Bobby would be the most logical choice for archivist. He had his nose in books and doing research for dozens of Hunters and had (probably) the best knowledge of the monsters of about any human. I am not overly worried about keeping things completely to the show, as you said the spellcasting for Bobby/Sam/Dean took longer, but that was due to the entire race of humanity being so inept in spellcasting, unlike the world I am running where the average adult is level 2, and the top-tier of humanity is level 6. I could simply make the banishment spells have a slightly longer duration as well.




All in all this is a perfect start for the characters and the campaign. My wife and I recently restarted season 1 so I can just jot down some of the monsters and lore from there on and on a few websites to get a lot of detail on them. This is likely going to be a campaign lasting 5-6 months before the end bad boy (a fallen angel, which will likely be a suped up combo of astral deva and a pit fiend) is beat. This is going to be a lot of fun! :smallbiggrin:

[ksbsnowowl]

I'd probably multiclass Dean as a Fighter/Rogue...
Rogue/Swashbuckler with Daring Outlaw, Undo Resistance (FCII), and a cold iron knife (or short sword).

I've wanted to play this type of character for a while now, basically inspired from Supernatural.

[Maginomicon]

I was wondering if maybe they don't have some spell casting ability. Both are able to cast spells to exorcize demons and angels away. They know how to poor salt and keep ghosts away, I'm not sure if you could mimic that with Protection type spells.

<snip>

But in general spellcasting in the Supernatural universe seems to be more involved, especially in time than casting in the D&D universe.

Enter Incantations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm). Just what the doctor ordered.