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Mr. Moon
2006-11-24, 08:54 PM
I recently had a lot of money come my way, so I've decided to get off my rear and start an army, after reading some old White Dwarfs my dad sent me last month.

But the problem is, what army?

I'm serriously considering Tau, because, from what I've heard of them, I like their ideals. I won't be Space Marines, Imperial Guard or anyone esle affiliated with the Emporer, because I hate him so much it's not funny. I've played a couple of games with my freinds Tryinads(sp?), and he said I was pretty good.

So, any ideas?

blackout
2006-11-24, 08:57 PM
Well, if your going to play Tau, remember: It's all about PREGAME STRATEGY. You need a good battle plan if your ever gonna win. Try to make your enemy fight on your terms.

blackout
2006-11-24, 09:04 PM
And alot of Skyray Gunships tend to help. << >>

Beleriphon
2006-11-25, 12:38 AM
My one piece of advice, no matter how cool those speical units look, core troops are your bread and butter. They are game winners in general. The Tau are espically true of this since the more fire they can put down range the more likely they are to win.

Crazy Owl
2006-11-25, 04:49 AM
Try to have atleast one Railgun, they are hell to tanks. If you mainly going to fight infantry then take a hammerhead. If your going to fight more tanks or monstrous creatures then take a broadside sqaud.

Adlan
2006-11-25, 08:03 AM
Warhammer is not just about playing the actual game, you've gotta be able to Paint them all as well (unless you pay some one else to do it, costing much ). So if you don't enjoy the look of the figures, or the style of the models, you won't paint them, and you won't have an army.

The Jungle (http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/whatsnew.htm) is a fantastic website for picking up tactics and other tips, although based around space marines, has good advice for any army, even for warhammer fantasy.

My favourite peace of advice from his site, is Don't sweat the Big Guns, sweat the little guys. Troops, and lots of them, will win for you. For tau though, troops need support. So Combined arms is the way to operate.

blackout
2006-11-25, 09:00 AM
Exactly. Followed up by a good pregame battle plan.

DeathQuaker
2006-11-25, 12:46 PM
Most important thing in choosing a 40K army is... will you like it enough to stick with it?

That you want to choose Tau for their ideals is good. Build an army you can feel passionate about. 40K is an investment in time and money, so don't pick something just 'cause it seems like it's powerful (not that I think you will, but it's good advice in general) unless that's the only thing you're passionate about, because otherwise you'll get bored with it.

If you truly HATE the Emperor, the most obvious choice would be Chaos Space Marines of course. But they are also done frequently, so if you want to be "different" I'd look at the other non-Imperium armies first.

Other stuff to consider:

1. What tactics are you good at? If you play Tyranids well, you probably handle close combat well. Tau, OTOH, are strong primarily in long-range attacks. Do you feel comfortable switching from short-range to long-range tactics? What other things do you like to do/do you favor strategically? Strength in numbers (Tyranids, Orks)? Speed, sneakiness, and finesse (Eldar and Dark Eldar)? Physical strength and toughness (Tyranids, Chaos Space Marines)? Long Range Whup-ass (Tau)?

2. Consider assembly and painting--time you're going to take to put into these (or money spent to hire someone else to do so). Some armies are easier to assemble and paint than others, making them desirable in some respects, but sometimes putting together a more complex army feels rewarding, especially if you are into the "hobby" aspect of the game. I play Witch Hunters, which are lovely but can be a pain to paint sometimes because they're covered in niggly detail--but I love to paint in general, so overall I have fun with it--just have to take a lot of breaks!

3. After you're pretty sure what you want to play, proxy first, or buy just a small army (such as a 400 point combat patrol) to make sure the concept and the tactics required for that particular army suit you.

CaptainSam
2006-11-25, 08:05 PM
Dark Eldar.

'Nuff said!

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha!! Sorry, couldn't help it! Dark Eldar are bloody difficult to play. I used to take one casualty and run from the battlefield. The other player would say "You can't do that!" And I'd reply, "Sod that, we're raiders, not fighters!" Never won a game, though.

blackout
2006-11-25, 08:15 PM
Feh. The Dark Eldar can go to the Warp for all I care, so long as my Tau remain SUPREME!

CaptainSam
2006-11-26, 12:31 AM
Feh. The Dark Eldar can go to the Warp for all I care, so long as my Tau remain SUPREME!

I'll see your "feh" and raise you a meh. you easy-to-paint-beardy-Tau player.

Just kidding. I don't play any more, I wore myself out making 70 or so little soldiers run for the edge of the table.

As an aside, does anyone else give their figurines voices and accents? For example, all my Dark Eldar were french:

"Zut alors! Zey 'ave blown up poor Francois! Run! Run to ze 'ills!"

Kept getting strange looks from the other players. Dunno why.

blackout
2006-11-26, 12:53 AM
...Yes. << I DON'T HAVE PROBLEMS!

Matthew
2006-11-26, 09:39 AM
Imperial Guard! You know you want to...

blackout
2006-11-26, 09:45 AM
Imperial Guard = Go to the Warp! CUS TAU REIGN SUPREME IN THIS GALAXY!
*cut to a pair of fire warriors chatting, while there's a massive fight going on around them*
Warrior 1: I'm tellin' ya, a Hammerhead beats a Skyray, no two ways about it.
Warrior 2: Hammerheads may got railguns and all the good stuff, but Skyrays got MISSLES.
Warrior 1: Missles suck-*gets shot in the back by a Guardsmen*
Warrior 2: HOLY-*gets shot too*
*cut back to me*
Ok, so the Tau...er...have their moments.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-11-26, 10:16 AM
A race is only as easy to paint as you want it to be. And remember that you can technically play games with only undercoated models...you'll just look a little daft is all.

blackout
2006-11-26, 10:23 AM
But models with a full coat of paint are always the best. :)

Jibar
2006-11-26, 12:17 PM
As an aside, does anyone else give their figurines voices and accents? For example, all my Dark Eldar were french:
"Zut alors! Zey 'ave blown up poor Francois! Run! Run to ze 'ills!"


That is one of the funniest things I have ever heard...

blackout
2006-11-26, 12:19 PM
Well, I give my Tau a mixture of voices and accents...>> Like, y'know, Fire Warriors sound like US marines, and the Skyray crews sound like brits...

Saithis Bladewing
2006-11-26, 12:20 PM
I make all of my Tau sound like the japanese.

blackout
2006-11-26, 12:30 PM
Hehe...I only make the Hammerheads sound like Japanese.

Crazy Owl
2006-11-26, 06:03 PM
I don't like making up voices for them. First voices then their whole life and then I feel sad when they get shot. :smalleek: How will Mrs Kais feel when she finds out he was wripped in half by a Bloodthirster.

blackout
2006-11-26, 07:26 PM
Hey, he died fighting for the Greater Good, and proper compensation will be sent to each of his family members. 50000 Tau-munnies should do it...wait, he was ripped in half by a bloodthirster? Ouch. Poor unlucky bastard...

The Orange Zergling
2006-11-26, 07:29 PM
Imperial Guard! You know you want to...


I'd second that, but I'd be hypocritical, seeing as I have a space marine army. IG have too many models to assemble/paint, IMHO.

DeathQuaker
2006-11-26, 09:23 PM
As an aside, does anyone else give their figurines voices and accents? For example, all my Dark Eldar were french:


Mine become French too, sometimes. But I have the excuse that my Sisters of Battle are all decorated in fleurs-des-lys, hence I kept making the assocation with the French. :)

And due to a silly joke, the Seraphim Superior gets voiced like Alti from Xena: Warrior Princess (think: too many cigarettes).

Beleriphon
2006-11-27, 01:29 AM
"Zut alors! Zey 'ave blown up poor Francois! Run! Run to ze 'ills!"

Kept getting strange looks from the other players. Dunno why.

You know as a gag a buddy of mine had a lost colony of French Eldar, since always seemed to lose. That or he would fail every possible leadership test, thus having his army retreat as often as they would advance.

Penguinizer
2006-11-27, 11:54 AM
Im also gonna start with Warhammer 40k, One thing I've already decided is that im gonna go wit the 'nids. They just looks so darned cool.

Crazy Owl
2006-11-27, 02:11 PM
They are a fun army aswell.

Mr. Moon
2006-11-27, 03:44 PM
...Dark Eldar were french:

"Zut alors! Zey 'ave blown up poor Francois! Run! Run to ze 'ills!"

Kept getting strange looks from the other players. Dunno why.

Nice. That made me laugh.

Deathquacker raises a good point. Since I'm used to the close-combat tactics of LOTR (that's the game I started off with, but I got sick of always having Aragorn take out all my Orcs in three turns), would the switch to long-ranged Tau be to much for me?

Okay, here's what I typicaly look for in an army:

Low point cost: My greatest moto is "In numbers there is no greater striength." The more, the merrier, etc.

Adaptability: The abilaty to take on any turn of events without blinking is important.

High Leadership: I don't want to be constantly having to move away from and towards the edge of the table. I know Tyranids are good for this because of the Synapse Creature rule.

So, match me up. Please and thank-you. Right now I'm juggling between Tyranid and Tau.

PokeTheBard
2006-11-27, 04:51 PM
Go for the 'nids. You can play any possible style army with the Tyranids now under the 4th edition codex. I'd suggest you get plenty of little clawed critters to make up your bulk with a few warrior broods (the medium-sized synapse creatures) to keep them under control, arming them with suitable ranged weaponry to keep certain pesky units at bay. Ideally you dont want to buy this all at once, tailor your army as you go along, making it best suited against whatever it is you find you're normally facing.

Crazy Owl
2006-11-27, 06:15 PM
Nice. That made me laugh.

Deathquacker raises a good point. Since I'm used to the close-combat tactics of LOTR (that's the game I started off with, but I got sick of always having Aragorn take out all my Orcs in three turns), would the switch to long-ranged Tau be to much for me?

Okay, here's what I typicaly look for in an army:

Low point cost: My greatest moto is "In numbers there is no greater striength." The more, the merrier, etc.

Adaptability: The abilaty to take on any turn of events without blinking is important.

High Leadership: I don't want to be constantly having to move away from and towards the edge of the table. I know Tyranids are good for this because of the Synapse Creature rule.

So, match me up. Please and thank-you. Right now I'm juggling between Tyranid and Tau.

You just pretty much summed up nids in three small paragraphs. Gaunts are good and cheap. They are the most adaptable army in the game thanks to there mutating. Yep synapse is good for staying in the fight.

blackout
2006-11-27, 06:53 PM
But, if you want to confirm a victory, go for a Tau army. Their not the best at fighting up close, but they got Kroot for that. Heck, I have an entire sub-army of Kroot! About 1400 pts worth. And, at long range combat, you won't find better infantry than the Tau fire warriors. A nice mix of Tau and Kroot work excellently, especially if you know what your doing. Sometimes, in Meatgrinder matches, for my mixed Tau/Vespid/Kroot army, which is about 8600 pts worth, I just hunker down and 'hold the line', Kroot in front, Vespids in middle, Tau in back, artillery in WAY back. If all goes well, the followers of the Greater Good eventually win.

Timberwolf
2006-11-27, 07:11 PM
Heck, I'm sold on the Tau now and I know nothing about them (been a looong time since I even looked in a Games Workshop shop).

blackout
2006-11-27, 07:19 PM
:) Awesome! Welcome to the armies of the Greater Good, Timberwolf!

Mr. Moon
2006-11-27, 10:10 PM
Aha. Now I'm even more confuzed. My head hurts.

Okay, the questions: How much does the typical Tau cost, what upgrades can I give them, what are the stats for a basic warrior, how flexible are they, are there any Kroot elites, how flexible are they, can I customize my army, how does the Tau Emporer(?) rule, how many of them hate the human Emporer as much as I do, and apart from the Greater Good, what kind of ideals do they have?

FarseerUlthran
2006-11-27, 10:24 PM
My advice, go with Eldar. You get one of the most versetile armies in the game, individual units excell at one type of fighting and the key is to use various squads of different types to support each other this is tricky to do but if you pull it off you are almost garunteed to win.
If you want a real challenge go with Dark Eldar, they are very hard to use but my 1500 point army is undefeated so they can be supremely nasty if used right.
If you are looking for versatility than stay well away from Tau, they are the most specialized army out there and dont fall for the Kroot/Vespid trap as both these units suck big time. With Tau you want all shooting and know that even if you have Kroot any half way decent CC army (heck unit) will destroy you (hence my dislike for Kroot), however no one will ever outshot you.
Tyranids sound like what you are after though.

DeathQuaker
2006-11-27, 10:49 PM
Aha. Now I'm even more confuzed. My head hurts.

Okay, the questions: How much does the typical Tau cost, what upgrades can I give them, what are the stats for a basic warrior, how flexible are they, are there any Kroot elites, how flexible are they, can I customize my army, how does the Tau Emporer(?) rule, how many of them hate the human Emporer as much as I do, and apart from the Greater Good, what kind of ideals do they have?

At this point, given these questions you're asking, you just need to find someone with the Tau codex, borrow it, and read it.

Beleriphon
2006-11-28, 12:40 AM
Aha. Now I'm even more confuzed. My head hurts.

Okay, the questions: How much does the typical Tau cost, what upgrades can I give them, what are the stats for a basic warrior, how flexible are they, are there any Kroot elites, how flexible are they, can I customize my army, how does the Tau Emporer(?) rule, how many of them hate the human Emporer as much as I do, and apart from the Greater Good, what kind of ideals do they have?

The Tau are unpious heretics and shall fall before the might of the Imperium! Glory be to the Emperor and the Golden Throne.

Functionally though the Tau are about expanding their version of good to the rest of the universe. I've always seen them as a naive version of the Imperium. The Imperial Guard and Space Marines have been fighting Chaos in all of its forms for so long that they're a bunch of cynical, jaded witch hunters. In enough time, and after enough of their world fall the Tau will be the same.

blackout
2006-11-28, 07:10 AM
Nah. The Tau are pretty much brainwashed by the Etherial caste. That won't happen.

Penguinizer
2006-11-28, 12:01 PM
Anyways, Im in a tie between Space marines and Nid's.

I'll probably get a battleforce for christmas.

Jibar
2006-11-28, 12:12 PM
The Tau are unpious heretics and shall fall before the might of the Imperium! Glory be to the Emperor and the Golden Throne.


Purge the heretics!
Kill the aliens!
Destroy the mutants!

After playing Dawn of War, I'm an instant Imperium man. I may like the sound of the Greater Good, but god damn, that's something instantly amazing about the Space Marines.
Besides, you noticed the similarities between the Emporer and the Etherals?
They both arrive in the midst of war, reunite them all, and lead them to build an empire?

Crazy Owl
2006-11-28, 12:43 PM
The Tau really are just complete copies of the Imperials. Look at their weaponry and nearly everyone has an Imperial gun with the same stats or similiar. Instead of creating super humans they made battlesuits to improve their warriors.

Matthew
2006-11-28, 01:13 PM
Also, the good thing about collecting Imperial Guard is that you can also use them as Traitor Guard, which makes them a useful type of model to own.

blackout
2006-11-28, 03:46 PM
Maybe the Tau Ethereals are avatars of the God-Emperor of Man?...Ah, crap, this might mean an alliance between the Tau and Imperium sometime, if what I think is true...

FarseerUlthran
2006-11-28, 07:08 PM
Not to flame Space Marines but I would stay away from them if I were you. I think that it is safe to say that almost everyone started out with a Meq (marine equivelant) army, I started with Chaos. One thing that I have noticed is that as players gain more experience two things happen. The first is that they get really tired of fighting with and against armies that are very similar (and really all Meq's are), this is a function of how common the S.Marines are. The second thing that happens is that they start wishing that they played a force that is more complex and interesting tactically, Meq armies are very forgiving but they trade a lack of weaknesses for a lack of real specialities or strengths. I have over 3000 pts. of Chaos Marines that havent seen play in over 2 years so I am speaking from experience.
However if you do deccide to go with Marines that is your desicion, but you have been warned.

blackout
2006-11-28, 08:21 PM
I genuinely believe you should go with Tau, if your looking for something not like what the Farseer spoke of. Their specialists, shooty-style.

Mr. Moon
2006-11-28, 09:52 PM
Hold you're tounges, savages! You're Emporer is the cause of these wars, and this bloodshed. Had they remained peacefull, and hadn't wipped out the Eldar, the Universe would not be what it is today!

"His is not a god, like you believe, your emporer. He is a human, like you, kept from death by machinery. Indeed, he is more machine then human, like many of you, kept alive by the souls of your innocent pyskers. It is folley to keep him alive, when such bloodshed is attributed to him! He is a man who should have died centuries ago. Instead, of making peace with the Eldar, he ordered to invade their homeworlds. You call us alein, hertics, and monsters, simply because we do not place our faith in your emporer. Yet still, we, the Tau Kingdom, offer you the chance to join the Greater Good. Shed you're Emporer, your fear, your half-machine bodies! Become Human once more." Lord Shi'atu (the general of my army), addressing the Imperial Planet Deepcliff.

Yes, this means I am sold on Tau.

DeathQuaker
2006-11-28, 10:51 PM
Maybe the Tau Ethereals are avatars of the God-Emperor of Man?

Heresy! Sister Fidelia, more fuel for the flamers. We have some cleansing to do....

...

(Honestly, no. The God-Emperor is a wrinkly half-dead guy surviving by feeding on the life force of the thousands of psychics sacrificed to him every day. I doubt he has anything at all to do with the Ethereals. If he was able to send out Avatars, it would be in a human/space marine form.)

Moon Called: It sounds like you found your passion. Go for it and fight for the greater good.

But please, please, for the love of Pete, asks this poor humble copy editor: the possessive is "your"; "you're" is a contraction for "you are." Please learn the difference.

Or I'm getting out the Immolator. :smallwink:

blackout
2006-11-29, 07:31 AM
Another one converted to the Greater Good!

Also, it's possible. For all we know, the Emperor might LIKE having an alien avatar. He might not be as xenophobic as his followers, y'know. :)

DeathQuaker
2006-11-29, 07:36 AM
Also, it's possible. For all we know, the Emperor might LIKE having an alien avatar. He might not be as xenophobic as his followers, y'know. :)

I'd wager no on that. If you read enough history of the Imperium, it's really not likely.

And he would be unlikely to summon an avatar his followers would be suspicious of.

UNLESS... he actually was displeased with his followers and wished for them to be destroyed. Which would be a really neat scenario, but not one where Imperium allies with Tau.

Mr. Moon
2006-11-29, 12:10 PM
Yeah right. Like any self respecting Tau would side with the Emporer. Well, at lest, none from my army. Like I said, the Emporer is the greatest threat to the peace of the Galaxy, besides Tyrinads, and must be destroyed!

I'll go fix my quote, just because I'm nice, DeathQuaker.

Jibar
2006-11-29, 01:37 PM
Heresy grows from idleness.
And it seems you have been very idle.

Okay, so if I could afford it, I would totally be building a Space Marine army right now.
FOR THE EMPORER!

Adlan
2006-11-29, 02:25 PM
I play non Meq Space Marines.

Pure Scout Goodness.

I'd suggest you learn to play both straight fights, and in my opinion, the much improved, more tactical, more intersting, more senario based, Cityfight expansion, Cities of Death.

(and yes, my pure scout army owns cities of death)

blackout
2006-11-29, 04:02 PM
Ok, so maybe not an alliance, but an uneasy truce, at the very least. The Emperor might actually be a little more open-minded than his followers. Alot of alien races are enemies of humanity, I know. Dark Eldar? Hell yes, their enemies! Orks? They just like to kill stuff, it's in their nature, can't really blame them, but they must be killed in self-defense at least. Eldar? Possibly. Their fighting to save the galaxy, but their willing to kill the entire human race to make it happen. Necrons? Enemy, enemy, enemy, and enemy again. Tyranids? They threaten the entire galaxy, so why not put em on the enemies list?

But the Tau won't openly attack another sentient species unless they prove to be hostile first. So, yes, it's possible for an uneasy truce in the name of the Emperor/Greater Good to be signed to prevent further warfare between the Tau and the Imperium. Y'know, let em focus on the REAL problems, like the Tyranids or the Orks.

Crazy Owl
2006-11-29, 05:26 PM
The more I think about this the more Tau seem like a perfect Allie to the Imperium. Imagine Space Marines who's Plasma guns don't explode, assault cannons that don't jam, a heavy weapon equally effective against vehicles as its is against infantry. Then we get to battle suits. They make your average weakling Tau into something that can stand protect it self, now what if we stick a super strengthed close combat specialist marine in it. Take away the arm mounted guns and replace them with power weapons. We now have a fast moving killing machine that can take a lot hits. O'Shovah would be proud. Finally what is the Imperium's greatest threat? Chaos. Who are the only civilized race we know of who are completely free of Chaos? Tau. They have no psychic abilities at all so they can't be possessed and have so much faith in the ethereals it is unlikely the gods could bring them to there side.

blackout
2006-11-29, 05:48 PM
Exactly! Cookie for Crazy Owl, here.

Crazy Owl
2006-11-30, 02:21 AM
I don't think Owls can eat cookies. Stupid Beek.

blackout
2006-11-30, 07:10 AM
Ack. Oh well. *eats it* Still, you were on the nose with that explanation. Also, another idea: Tau guns that are human-compatible. Space Marines with Tau Pulse Rifles. >:)

DeathQuaker
2006-11-30, 08:01 AM
Yeah right. Like any self respecting Tau would side with the Emporer. Well, at lest, none from my army. Like I said, the Emporer is the greatest threat to the peace of the Galaxy, besides Tyrinads, and must be destroyed!

I don't know... I think most of the armies are a pretty great threat to the peace of the galaxy... and Chaos and Dark Eldar have 1 up on some of the others for absolute mayhem.

That's the thing about 40K. There aren't really any good guys. Tau are about as close as you can get, though.


I'll go fix my quote, just because I'm nice, DeathQuaker.

You're very kind. I promise should we ever meet on the battlefield, my Sisters will only toast your Tau lightly. :smallwink:

Penguinizer
2006-11-30, 11:16 AM
I have chosen to go with the tyranids, got a Brood Lord today :smallbiggrin: (Will get a Hive tyrant later possibly.)

Then I realized I didn't have enough money for glue :smallannoyed:

Now I have a Brood Lord but no glue...

DeathQuaker
2006-11-30, 11:32 AM
I have chosen to go with the tyranids, got a Brood Lord today :smallbiggrin: (Will get a Hive tyrant later possibly.)

Then I realized I didn't have enough money for glue :smallannoyed:

Now I have a Brood Lord but no glue...

Don't know if you know this or not, but just in case:

DO NOT BUY CITADEL HOBBY PRODUCTS IF YOU CAN HELP IT

With very few exceptions, Citadel hobby products (the stuff GW sells) are always more expensive than equivalents, with no improvement in quality.

For superglue (for metal parts) or plastic glue (for plastic parts), buy Zap-a-Gap or Plasti-Gap respectively, or similar kinds of glue. Superglue is a "CA" or "cyanoacrylate" glue. Plastic glues have a few different formulas, some are also cyanoacrylate but be sure they're formulated for use on plastic.

These glues aren't cheap, but still cheaper than Citadel, especially since in some places you can more easily get them on discount.

Especially, don't buy GW's "PVA Glue" (used for terrain and scenery). It's just Elmer's white glue, at a much higher cost.

Likewise, most tools (clippers, files, etc) can be found elsewhere for much better prices.

I learned this the hard way. Don't do the same. :smallsmile:

Hmm... maybe I should start a thread on miniature modeling...

The_Squid
2006-11-30, 12:57 PM
I have to say, as a Tau hater, if you played Tau you would be joining the ranks of the demon-spawned enemy. I would say play orks. They have lots of cool troops and vehicles, plus you can take other armies tanks and "loot" them to represent your own models.

Timberwolf
2006-11-30, 01:10 PM
The Orks are great, I must admit. They're with the Imperial Guard in the "Armies I always had a soft spot for but never particularly wanted to spend the huge amount of cash it would require to play them" list.

The Tau sound cool though.

blackout
2006-11-30, 04:17 PM
Tau ARE cool, T-wolf. :) And, the Squid, remember: Tau have their specialties, Orks have theirs'.

Crazy Owl
2006-11-30, 06:06 PM
Tau shoot stuff
Orks hit stuff
:smallwink:

Mr. Moon
2006-11-30, 06:42 PM
Origanily I wanted to play as Orks, but the more I learned about the Galaxy, the more I wanted to play a more peacefull race. And as soon as I hit the picture of the High Council, that solved it: I now have an enternal hatred for the Emprorer. Not the citezins of the Empire though, or those forced to battle in the name of the Emporer. In fact, I sort of pity them. Can you imagine? Waking up to find that you're son had been marked as a Phsycer(sp?), and having to watch as he is dragged away to feed the Emporer? Having you're arm blown off, and having it replaced with machinery? Reling on machines just so you could breath because the planet you lived on had a poluted atmospher? I don't want to hurt THEM, but I do want to destroy the Emporer. At all costs.

blackout
2006-11-30, 07:11 PM
>:) Fellow Tau players, unite! We shall 'pull the plug' on the Emperor, for the Greater Good!

The_Squid
2006-11-30, 08:54 PM
Ha ha. Peace.
Join us or die!
No, I won't join you!
Fire warriors, blast him!
Aaaaagh I'm dead! Why didn't I join the Greater Good!

Thats Tau.
If they don't join you, shoot em. Not much peace there. And whats the purpose, exactly, of playing a peaceful army in a WARgame?

Mr. Moon
2006-11-30, 09:20 PM
Yes, but we're shooting them in hopes of creating peace!


....

Oh hush... :P

The_Squid
2006-11-30, 09:29 PM
The Tau have layed down their rules.
As they expand, all races they contact must either join the Greater Good, or die.
End of story.
Peace?

blackout
2006-11-30, 09:34 PM
...Wow. That's so ridiculously unfounded. Most of the time, when someone doesn't join the Greater Good, their just left alone...MOST of the time. The only reason the Tau shot at everyone else is cus they were shot at first. The reasons?

Dark Eldar: I'M GONNA TORTURE YOU! HAHAHA!
Eldar: You threaten the universe! DIE!
Space Marines/Imperial Guards/Everyone Else in the Imperium: DIE XENOS!
Orks: WE'Z GONNA STOMP ON YA!
Tyranids: FOOOOOOOD!
You get the idea.

The_Squid
2006-12-01, 12:09 AM
I have to say that the Tau are just as bad as the Imperium. Even if they don't kill the person, then they atleast try to impose their ideals on them. It's like the white men coming from England to America, and trying to convert all the natives. Natives on Tau worlds who do not join the Greater Good are either discriminated against or killed, to reduce chances of an inserrection. Also, the "Greater Good" is an idea created by the Ethereals, and everyone goes along with it because Ethereals produce a phermone that makes the other Tau like them. If a Tau group has no Ethereals, they will lose touch with the Greater Good until they lose interest in it altogether. This happened to Commander Farsight after his Enclave was seperated from the rest of the Tau. Also, the Tau castes other than the Ethereals are very nieve, and will follow anything the Ethereals tell them, partailly thanks to the Ethereals control pheremone. Also, the Tau Empire could be in serious trouble. If a genestealer infestation reached an Ethereal and corrupted him, he could use the pheremones and the Tau's natural nievity to create a civil war between the Empire.

Also, their leader is a shriveled gray prune on a floaty chair. Ye gods.
Most of this information comes from the book Xenology. Look it up.

Everto
2006-12-01, 06:02 AM
Tau are the pinnacle of Communism.
Therefore, because they work together in harmony, although brainwashed by the Ethereals, they are the best society available to anything which isn't Orks.
Mankind is too selfcentred to be 100% communist. Same for the Eldar plus the Eldar are a dying race. The Necrons are all robots so they can't be anything but communists.
The tyranids are also commies 'coz they have to listen to what the hivemind says.
But the Orks, they are the pinnacle of creation(with the Tau as a close second).
A) Orks reproduce everywhere they go, so they can't be completely destroyed.
B)Only the most cunning/brutal/etc. can be at the top of society, therefore you can't have a incompetent ork at the top.
It's only a matter of time before there are only Orks and the Tau Empire left.

Adlan
2006-12-01, 06:29 AM
Ulthran the Perverse had it right when he said the Orks were the best society. Orks have the perfect world, no inner termoil, Every Ork in the society is happy. They have no need for compassion, so don't feel bad about all their slaves, and they never have to bother with children.

Orkses rule.

Tau are an expansionist empire, and are not 'good guys' they are just the nicest of a bad bunch.

Tau: 'we claim this world for the greater good!'
Native: 'The what now, This is my home!'
Tau: 'For the greater good you will be sent to a reducation camp, taught the basics of the greater good, then sent to work in the factorys, under the beneficiant rule of the Tau!'

The author of 8 bit theatre has made some good tau propaganda posters.

Jibar
2006-12-01, 06:31 AM
I was so tempted to call the Tau communists and then you did it for me.
Thank you.

blackout
2006-12-01, 07:43 AM
>:( Ack. Fine, go 'head and believe what you want. >:) But you'll ALL SEE! HAHAHAHAHAHA! ONE DAY THE GALAXY WILL BELONG TO THE TAU!

Penguinizer
2006-12-01, 08:39 AM
I know, besides, Im not paying 7.20 for bus tickets...

Ill just buy normal super glue. Common sense.

And we have a large tool box in the shed with atleast a couple of clippers.

And the plastic glue is Polyesterene cement I think.

Narmoth
2006-12-01, 09:13 AM
Origanily I wanted to play as Orks, but the more I learned about the Galaxy, the more I wanted to play a more peacefull race. And as soon as I hit the picture of the High Council, that solved it: I now have an enternal hatred for the Emprorer. Not the citezins of the Empire though, or those forced to battle in the name of the Emporer. In fact, I sort of pity them. Can you imagine? Waking up to find that you're son had been marked as a Phsycer(sp?), and having to watch as he is dragged away to feed the Emporer? Having you're arm blown off, and having it replaced with machinery? Reling on machines just so you could breath because the planet you lived on had a poluted atmospher? I don't want to hurt THEM, but I do want to destroy the Emporer. At all costs.

I and those I'm going to play with are very ok with custom rules, so I'm making a new codex based on black templar space-marines where they are neighter worshipping the emperor or the chaos gods because I didn't like the emperor or any of the xenos rases and wanted to have dreadnoughts. The army I make now is kind-of something in between demonhunters and chaos marines.

So if you can't find any standard races that fitt yuo good, find the one that you like best and fix them up a bit.
If any are interested in using it I can post it.



Hmm... maybe I should start a thread on miniature modeling...

That would be cool. Allways someone who would need advice

DeathQuaker
2006-12-01, 12:22 PM
Ill just buy normal super glue. Common sense.


Just FYI I've heard Crazy Glue is usually a bad idea.



And the plastic glue is Polyesterene cement I think.

Yes it is! You are correct. I couldn't remember.

Plasti-Zap is a CA++ though.

Selrahc
2006-12-01, 02:28 PM
Ulthran the Perverse had it right when he said the Orks were the best society. Orks have the perfect world, no inner termoil, Every Ork in the society is happy. They have no need for compassion, so don't feel bad about all their slaves, and they never have to bother with children.

Orkses rule.

Tau are an expansionist empire, and are not 'good guys' they are just the nicest of a bad bunch.

Tau: 'we claim this world for the greater good!'
Native: 'The what now, This is my home!'
Tau: 'For the greater good you will be sent to a reducation camp, taught the basics of the greater good, then sent to work in the factorys, under the beneficiant rule of the Tau!'

The author of 8 bit theatre has made some good tau propaganda posters.

Right on. Never think the Tau are "Nice"

They're a caste based society, its impossible for someone born in the fire caste to be a pilot. Its impossible for someone in the air caste to be a trader. The populace are brainwashed fools controlled by pheromonal control.

They aren't anything like communists either. In fact they're pretty damn far away from what communism is supposed to be due to A. The caste system. B. Power in the hands of Elites C. Expansionist policies(The upsahot of communism was supposed to be people living in small groups together, self sufficient and happy. With no government or state, since the only purpose of the state was to regulate class struggle)

Everyone they conquer are essentially subcitizens, conscripted for the greater good of the TAU empire, all useful technology stolen and taken back to the tau homeworlds.

They start viral propoganda campaigns against other worlds. Showing people satying "We are with the Tau, we are very happy. When the armoured troopers come to turn you out of your home so it can be recolonized by Tau patriots, do not resist.".


No one in 40K is "The Good Guy". Which is one of the reasons its cool.:smallsmile:

Personally I reckon you should give Orks a try. They're a fun army. Especially if this is your first one.

Crazy Owl
2006-12-01, 02:40 PM
Ive always thought of the Inquisitors who are not extremists are the good guys, like Eisienhorn in his early years and Ravenor.

Narmoth
2006-12-01, 03:09 PM
Imperial Guard, as mostly a defence forse (the Space Marines are the conquerrors, I think) are the closest you get to "good guys". The only problem: who want to play normal soliders in a fantacy/sci-fic battle game?
(you who do, fine, don't kill me for being different)

Saithis Bladewing
2006-12-01, 03:13 PM
Imperial Guard, as mostly a defence forse (the Space Marines are the conquerrors, I think) are the closest you get to "good guys". The only problem: who want to play normal soliders in a fantacy/sci-fic battle game?
(you who do, fine, don't kill me for being different)

Wait, what? Are you calling commissars and the officer caste "good guys"? That's the most disturbing thing I've ever heard. Even the standard guardsman isn't really a "good guy". Commissars definitely qualify for Lawful Evil status.

And I can't help but feel you guys are judging the Tau without offering any evidence. C'mon, show me the proof. Give me page references and quotations that aren't from the Dark Crusade campaign.

Mr. Moon
2006-12-01, 03:15 PM
A) Orks reproduce everywhere they go...


Nuuu! The images! The images in my head!


Wait, what? Are you calling commissars and the officer caste "good guys"? That's the most disturbing thing I've ever heard. Even the standard guardsman isn't really a "good guy". Commissars definitely qualify for Lawful Evil status.

And I can't help but feel you guys are judging the Tau without offering any evidence. C'mon, show me the proof. Give me page references and quotations that aren't from the Dark Crusade campaign.

I agree with both of these statments. Sure, in the first case it's the burning hatred of the Emporer that has logged itself in my heart talking, (mostley), but still... :P

Penguinizer
2006-12-01, 03:19 PM
The Nids are socialists.

All of their bio mass is used for common good, and they dont waste anything.

So the Tyranids are a perfect race :P.


Except that they practically eat entire planet biospheres

And im thinking that normal super glue would work for full metal models.

Mr. Moon
2006-12-01, 03:23 PM
In most cases, I just use super glue. For everything. It works, mostley, but can mean trouble for smaller details...

Once I fell asleep Super Glueing my Ringwraith together. That was a fun ride to the hospital.... :P

Selrahc
2006-12-01, 03:23 PM
Wait, what? Are you calling commissars and the officer caste "good guys"? That's the most disturbing thing I've ever heard. Even the standard guardsman isn't really a "good guy". Commissars definitely qualify for Lawful Evil status.

And I can't help but feel you guys are judging the Tau without offering any evidence. C'mon, show me the proof. Give me page references and quotations that aren't from the Dark Crusade campaign.

Never played Dark Crusade.

You asking where I got the reference of them being a caste based expansionist society? Um.. try the Tau codex. Or any of the white dwarfs focusing on Tau.

Propoganda campaigning? The white dwarf directly after the Tau were released(UK edition if thats different) had a whole story of a Tau propoganda video.

It showed an ex guardsman, basically saying join and live in the worlds the Tau let you live on, or fall to the might of the fire warriors.

Being brainwashed by the ethereals? O Shovah, the Xenobiology book, lots of references in the Tau rulebooks.

Crazy Owl
2006-12-01, 03:25 PM
Actually Penguinizer has just made me realise that although nothing is good in the Imperium Nids are probably one the most non-evil ones. All they are doing is surviving, you wouldnt say a bear was evil if it killed and fed on someone, it was just doing what It needed to survive.

Penguinizer
2006-12-01, 03:26 PM
And the stuff that GW sells is just normal super glue, Ill check with one of my friends sometime. If it is, Its easier to just get the non GW stuff.

blackout
2006-12-01, 03:43 PM
Ok, so none of the races are 'good.' I'll admit, the Tau have their bad days, and so does the Imperium...BUT TAU ARE BETTER! >:(

Crazy Owl
2006-12-01, 03:46 PM
Its not very hard to be better than the Imperium anyway.

Selrahc
2006-12-01, 03:47 PM
Chaos is obviously the best anyway.:xykon:

Penguinizer
2006-12-01, 03:51 PM
Will your chaos survive with around 8 ranged attacks re-rolling wounds and another 10+ characters making 2+ melee attacks each on charge.

Crazy Owl
2006-12-01, 03:54 PM
Will your chaos survive with around 8 ranged attacks re-rolling wounds and another 10+ characters making 2+ melee attacks each on charge.
You really wan't to take on Chaos on in Close Combat?

Selrahc
2006-12-01, 03:54 PM
Depends on the army. Chaos can do anything.

I have three, elite close combat, elite ranged, lost and the damned horde. If you're talking about Tyranids I've beaten them quite a few times with each.

blackout
2006-12-01, 03:58 PM
Well, there's one thing I can be happy about when it comes to the Tau...No so-called heretics to worry about. :)

Selrahc
2006-12-01, 04:04 PM
Ever hear of a guy called O'Shovah?

blackout
2006-12-01, 04:09 PM
....:( Ack.

blackout
2006-12-01, 04:19 PM
Well, O'Shovah and his men haven't become heretics. There's no such thing in the Tau Empire. They've simply lost their way. We just need to get an Etherial out to their location...:)

Crazy Owl
2006-12-01, 04:21 PM
To re-brainwash him?

blackout
2006-12-01, 04:24 PM
Silence, human! The Tau Empire does not brainwash. Either you join, or you form an alliance with it. Or you don't join and then you get killed. :) Either way, the Greater Good is the 'mainstream' religion in the Tau Empire, but your free to worship who you want, and believe what you want, so long as you put aside personal agendas for the good of the general populace. So, no, no brainwashing. Just a little trip to find out where he went, why he went, and if we can get our military gear that they took back.

Selrahc
2006-12-01, 04:29 PM
See with Chaos you don't need to do any of that moral justification. You KNOW you're the bad guy.:smallcool:

blackout
2006-12-01, 04:32 PM
Which is exactly why I intend to take the Chaos troops out first during the upcoming GitP Warhammer 40K DoW DC Planet-Conquest tourney.

Crazy Owl
2006-12-01, 04:46 PM
Glad I switched then, damn Railcannon range.

blackout
2006-12-01, 04:50 PM
Oh, don't worry, Owl. :) You're going down after the Chaos troops...or, first, if you happen to get in the way of my invasion on Chaos-dominated territory.

Matthew
2006-12-01, 05:23 PM
"I don't know what you guys are talking about. The Imperium of Man is a great place to live and the Emperor is wise and benevolant."

- Honest testimony of an inhabitant of an Imperial paradise World...

Crazy Owl
2006-12-01, 05:31 PM
Oh, don't worry, Owl. :) You're going down after the Chaos troops...or, first, if you happen to get in the way of my invasion on Chaos-dominated territory.
Foolish Xenos, your kind shall be purged. The skys shall be death.

blackout
2006-12-01, 05:42 PM
You must understand, the Tau Empire will respect your faith human, if you would only see reason.

Mr. Moon
2006-12-01, 05:50 PM
*nod nod* We accept all, although the Emporer, as I have said many times, MUST DIE!

You know what, I just had this idea for a Tryanid army. I think I may just switch to them...

blackout
2006-12-01, 05:51 PM
...Get the Ethereal, we got someone who's growing an individuality.

Mr. Moon
2006-12-01, 06:20 PM
....

Run, men, run!

Dant
2006-12-01, 06:27 PM
I would argue that the IG are as close to good as you get with 40k. Commisars definetly are not, but the IG itself could be seen as good, many of the officers as well. For every Yarrick, there's a Ursarkar Creed. Actually, Yarrick could be considered good as well, since he was the single reason Hades held against the orks on Armaggedon. Disregarding that, most members of the IG are just men doing a job. They've either been conscripted or joined for a few square meals a day. They just want to stay alive and usually defend their planet. Nothing evil about that. I'm ignoring people like the Death Korps of course. :) As for just being regular troops among supersoldiers and power-armoured aliens, well, I like playing them because of that, not in spite of it. Think about it, Guardsmen have to do everything a Space Marine Chapter does, but without the armour, weapons or genetic enhancements that SM have. Oh, also, Tyranids aren't evil, nor are they good. They're just ammoral. Orks, maybe evil, debatable.

The_Squid
2006-12-01, 06:36 PM
Hey Moon-Called. Your hatred of the Emperor is really unfounded. He is paralyzed on a throne, and all he really does is provide a figurehead for the Imperium, and provides astropathic communications and navigations. He doesn't actually say anything or tell anyone what to do; thats the High Lords of Terra. He did not want the men of the Impeium to worship him as a god, just as a leader. He got angry at the Word Bearers when they conquered a planet and forced the people to worship him as a god. So don't be mad at him; he's really probably the "goodest" thing in all of 40k. Get mad at the High Lords of Terra. They actually make the descisions.

Selrahc
2006-12-01, 06:39 PM
The Emperor is an overglorified compass.

Selrahc
2006-12-01, 06:41 PM
Think about it, Guardsmen have to do everything a Space Marine Chapter does, but without the armour, weapons or genetic enhancements that SM have.

And with *only* millions and millions of guardsmen, backed up by air and tank support, to do the job of a single chapter.:smallamused:

blackout
2006-12-01, 07:00 PM
The Tau Empire is all that matters in this galaxy of carnage and chaos! Come! Join us! Join us and prosper! Oh, and...
Ethereal: *catches up to Moon*Stay and serve the Greater Good!

Dant
2006-12-01, 07:40 PM
And with *only* millions and millions of guardsmen, backed up by air and tank support, to do the job of a single chapter.:smallamused: Hey, didn't say that they could do it with the same numbers :) I was refering more to the fact that guardsmen will willingly step onto a battlefield, knowing that all that sits between them and a bloody death is a thin flak jacket and that their weapon is an overpowered flashlight. SM do the same thing, except they know that they can fight for weeks without sleep or food, are almost unkillable, have the best weapons that can be provided and armour that can stop pretty much everything short of an earthshaker round. It's a matter of courage. Of course, this doesn't apply to every IG member. Some are cowards, many are criminals.

blackout
2006-12-01, 07:44 PM
Well of COURSE their criminals...why else would they be sent out into situations where there is no possible hope for them to survive?

Mr. Moon
2006-12-01, 08:03 PM
The Tau Empire is all that matters in this galaxy of carnage and chaos! Come! Join us! Join us and prosper! Oh, and...
Ethereal: *catches up to Moon*Stay and serve the Greater Good!

But... but... I DON'T WANNA GET BRAINWASHED!!!! :eek: I can't help it if I hate opresers!



Hey Moon-Called. Your hatred of the Emperor is really unfounded. He is paralyzed on a throne, and all he really does is provide a figurehead for the Imperium, and provides astropathic communications and navigations. He doesn't actually say anything or tell anyone what to do; thats the High Lords of Terra. He did not want the men of the Impeium to worship him as a god, just as a leader. He got angry at the Word Bearers when they conquered a planet and forced the people to worship him as a god. So don't be mad at him; he's really probably the "goodest" thing in all of 40k. Get mad at the High Lords of Terra. They actually make the descisions.

Yeah, I thought it may be something like that. However, since I have next to no knowladge of the Empire (it's not like I'm gonna splurge on a Space Marine Codex, although that may provide more fuel for my fire...), I directed it as best I could. Although you have a point. Right, my rightious fury has changed: Now the High Lords must die!

Dant
2006-12-01, 08:57 PM
Well of COURSE their criminals...why else would they be sent out into situations where there is no possible hope for them to survive?

Heh, I believe you're thinking about the 13th Penal, The Last Chancers. The worst criminal scum in the Imperium of man, dredged together and sent into impossible, yet critical, battles in order to redeem their souls. Quite possibly the coolest group concept in the entire game, even if it's not real original, and lead by quite possibly the coolest special character. I'm pretty sure Colonel Schaeffer could take on a couple of SM's on his own.

blackout
2006-12-01, 08:57 PM
But their on Terra. How are you gonna breach it's defenses? Your talking about breaking through literally thousands of Warships, planetary defense grids, then there's the orbital defense grids, and assuming you make it all the way through those in one piece, then you have to deal with the Elite Space Marines, the absolute BEST of the Imperium's ground forces. Not to mention the High Lords have dealt with the occasional assassin before, so they'll probably be armed somehow. THEN you have to get OUT. And tough tinkies, your getting brainwashed. >:)

And Dant, do the 13th usually win? :)

Mr. Moon
2006-12-01, 09:08 PM
But their on Terra. How are you gonna breach it's defenses? Your talking about breaking through literally thousands of Warships, planetary defense grids, then there's the orbital defense grids, and assuming you make it all the way through those in one piece, then you have to deal with the Elite Space Marines, the absolute BEST of the Imperium's ground forces. Not to mention the High Lords have dealt with the occasional assassin before, so they'll probably be armed somehow. THEN you have to get OUT. And tough tinkies, your getting brainwashed. >:)


Well... obviously, I'd.... (:smalleek: )

... Oh shush!

blackout
2006-12-01, 09:17 PM
:) Glad we had this talk. Your much better off taking over Imperial backwater planets until you get enough respect and authority in the Tau military to actually lead an army.

blackout
2006-12-01, 09:29 PM
Besides, you'd need the backing of the ENTIRE Tau military to even think of staging an invasion on Terra. Every soldier, every commander, every gun, every round, tank, APC, ship, fighter, artillery piece, you name it. You would need it ALL, plus mercenaries. And that's just for an invasion. For a SUCCESSFUL one, you'd need more. :)

Timberwolf
2006-12-01, 09:30 PM
All this talk of glue reminds me of the sheer annoyance and agony of trying to stick my first metal miniatures together. They were Space Marines - the Blood Angels Death Company if I remember.

What ??!! Don't look at me like that !! It was well over 10 years ago when I wasn't even in secondary school (12-16 btw, for any non Brits) and your choices went as follows

Space Marines, Orks, Chaos, Eldar or Imperial Guard (and I think I can remember them coming out. Ahhhh, it was a different game back then).

Anyway, it was an absolute pest to do, sticking plastic arms to a metal body. Poly cement does not work well for it but I got there eventually.

Ps, Go Tau !! Crush those imperialistic warmongering dogs beneath the heel of the Greater Good and roll the rotting carcase of the Emperor off his over gilded and tasteless throne. FREEEEEDOOOOM !!! BAAANZAI BANZAI BANZAI !!

Ahem *hides in corner*

blackout
2006-12-01, 09:33 PM
...Wow. You...your more fanatical about the Tau than I am.

Timberwolf
2006-12-01, 09:35 PM
Hey, I may not know the rules any more, may not have played a game in a decade, may not know what the heck is going on or who has what these days....

But I do good war crys.

blackout
2006-12-01, 09:39 PM
...are you good with tactics and strategy? 'Cause, I need a new tactical officer. :) The old one got shot through the head by a Space Marine with a heavy bolter.

Timberwolf
2006-12-01, 09:44 PM
Errrrr nope, fraid not

My tactics are strictly limited to what may be loosely be called the "Banzai Rush". Basically, think unsubtle and you're about there. I'm more a frontline kind of fella. With a mech, a freakin' big mech. I gotta have my mech.

*edit* So it probably means that I'd be best suited to an army of Orks.

Well maybe but the Tau are still a lot cooler, go Tau !!

blackout
2006-12-01, 09:49 PM
Ah, you play Mechwarrior? >:) Atlas rulez!

Mr. Moon
2006-12-01, 10:13 PM
Did you know that Banzai is an old Jappanese Warcry that litteraly means "One Thousand Years"? It's also a kind of tree.

blackout
2006-12-01, 10:16 PM
......'One Thousand Years?' Whoever came up with that was HIGH.

Mr. Moon
2006-12-01, 10:20 PM
I think it's kinda cool. It could stand for One Thousand Years of Death (Reminds me of Kokoshi of Naruto.) But I'm not sure.

Timberwolf
2006-12-01, 10:22 PM
Yes, I did know about the 1000 years thing. It's nicely ironic when refering to my style of playing any game. I either win gloriously early or lose spectacularly in an equally short space of time.

And I believe it is Bonsai that are the green leafy things you are refering too Moon Called.

Fear the small tree !!

blackout
2006-12-01, 10:22 PM
...>> Anyways, back to discussing the deaths of the High Lords of Terra...

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 02:09 AM
Besides, you'd need the backing of the ENTIRE Tau military to even think of staging an invasion on Terra. Every soldier, every commander, every gun, every round, tank, APC, ship, fighter, artillery piece, you name it. You would need it ALL, plus mercenaries. And that's just for an invasion. For a SUCCESSFUL one, you'd need more. :)

What about sending the nids on the other side of the planet and allowing them to grow in numbers, doubling in amount every 2 days or so.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/tyranids/tyranoforming-worlds/1/
The process of Nids taking over a planet.

Crazy Owl
2006-12-02, 02:27 AM
Every single Tau warrior probably could not take Terra, if several Chaos armies couldn't do it I don't think a smaller Army could do it. Wouldn't you need to capture a synapse creature for that plan to work? Otherwise they will just act stupid and try to keep themselves alive and not attack the planet.

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 02:29 AM
I think that the vanguard creatures can somehow work without a synapse creature. But it might just weaken them enough to be able to get through with the tau.

Crazy Owl
2006-12-02, 02:37 AM
They could probably catch a warrior.

warbacon
2006-12-02, 03:50 AM
......'One Thousand Years?' Whoever came up with that was HIGH.

Well actually it's used in a LOT of places besides warcries. Frequently an homage to gods, spirits, or the Emperor, if I remember correctly. And it's not "one thousand years", it's "ten thousand years." The general idea in Japanese is that you leave a LOT out when you're speaking (owing to a historically homogenous populace and culture caused by hundreds of years of isolationism). For example, they drop verbs ALL the time ... this is just another case. You're really saying something about 10k years, like "May you live 10k years" or what have you.

</Japanese geek mode: off>

Soooo .... Tau. Yeah, they rock. Although my only real experience with W40k is from the Dark Crusade expansion of Dawn of War, but within that context they're hardcore awesome.

In this and the DoW thread people have talked about different tactics, but let me just say that in my (limited) experience, making a balanced and varied army is key. What good is superior numbers (*cough*IG*cough*) when your enemy comes at you with the right unit for the right job? The Tau have units that are good at what they do, but are pretty specialized, so I think that a good tactical commander can go extremely far with them.

Good luck!

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 04:33 AM
if you think that IG is swarming, you will hate the Tyranids.

gaunts (which a large Nid army should have atleast 3 broods of) come in 16's
with a ripper swarm, genestealers come in eights and can be fielded with a brood lord. Basically, Tyranids are superior in close combat because of the sheer amount of attacks.

warbacon
2006-12-02, 04:38 AM
gaunts (which a large Nid army should have atleast 3 broods of) come in 16's
with a ripper swarm, genestealers come in eights and can be fielded with a brood lord. Basically, Tyranids are superior in close combat because of the sheer amount of attacks.

Wow. That's insane. I've read up on them on Wikipedia, but how's the variety of brood types? I mean, anti-infantry, anti-vehicle, meatshield, etc.. How well does a Tyranid army fill multiple roles?

Selrahc
2006-12-02, 05:00 AM
Hey, didn't say that they could do it with the same numbers :) I was refering more to the fact that guardsmen will willingly step onto a battlefield, knowing that all that sits between them and a bloody death is a thin flak jacket and that their weapon is an overpowered flashlight. SM do the same thing, except they know that they can fight for weeks without sleep or food, are almost unkillable, have the best weapons that can be provided and armour that can stop pretty much everything short of an earthshaker round. It's a matter of courage. Of course, this doesn't apply to every IG member. Some are cowards, many are criminals.

The Space Marines are far and away more courageous. The numbers really do matter.... going into battle with a million men, and the threat of execution if you fail is a lot less brave than going into battle AGAINST a million men, and knowing that the fate and glory of your chapter rests on you.


Plus, you put the imperial guard against the nasty critters like the Nightbringer, or the Bloodthirster and they'll run for the hills.

Space Marines know no fear. Guardsmen do.

Jibar
2006-12-02, 06:50 AM
Space Marines know no fear. Guardsmen do.

...

I like you.

And because nobody's done this;
Games Workshop (http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer40000/)

Taking a look over the miniatures and whatnot available, I'd say all the armies are pretty well balanced. it's all down to tactics.
And, of course, Space Marines have the best tactics.

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 07:02 AM
Nids are mostly melee, the spore mines and carnifexes mostly do anti vehicle (or zoanthropes if they have warp blast)

What the nids are best at are man wave tactics, just all out swarming with lots of melee attacks.

And genestealers kill infantry instantly with a roll of 6 on attack.

blackout
2006-12-02, 08:53 AM
Little flaw in your plan Penguinizer. How would the Tau be able to GET the Tyranids to the other side of the planet? For one, you'd have to capture a bunch alive. Two, how would the Tau get them to the other side of Terra without the defense grids noticing? And third, even if the Tau got the Tyranids to the other side of the planet, when they came back and picked up the now-numerous Nids, how would they be able to get them planetside to deal with the space marines down there? And fourth, where is the 'other side of the planet?'

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 09:04 AM
never said my plan was fool proof

blackout
2006-12-02, 09:17 AM
Ding...Damn, the humans really know how to fortify their capital system...

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 09:32 AM
Like they say, nothings fool proof until a fool proves it, says the guy who managed to wound himself with a Tyrandi Brood Lord...

Those things spikes are sharp...

blackout
2006-12-02, 09:36 AM
Meh. So, do you have Dark Crusade? Cus, we need more players for the tourney. :)

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 09:46 AM
nah, I dont have it, Im just starting to collect miniatures.

blackout
2006-12-02, 09:51 AM
:( Ack. Oh well. Spread the word, though. We got another five races open, and I want this tourney to happen. I've put too much work into it already.

DeathQuaker
2006-12-02, 09:57 AM
:( Ack. Oh well. Spread the word, though. We got another five races open, and I want this tourney to happen. I've put too much work into it already.

Don't play the computer game either. But if you put together an RL tabletop tourney in the Balt/DC area, I'm in!

blackout
2006-12-02, 09:58 AM
Well, I live in the swamps of Louisiana. :( Sry, no tabletop tourneys. I'd love to play against you, just to prove Tau can win any day of the week.

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 10:35 AM
Yay, I just finished painting my Brood Lord, will put up picture when able.
I just painted most of the body with bleached bone, the claws i painted chaos black with gore red at the tips, the spine things i painted liche purple.

blackout
2006-12-02, 10:38 AM
Yay for paint! :) I always give my Tau non-Tau colors for some reason. I think it's cus I like making em unique. Their loyal to the Greater Good and all, but they just don't fit in with the rest of the AFTE(Armed Forces of the Tau Empire)in terms of fashion. :) I always paint em red. Red, red and darker red. Makes em all look like they had messy encounters with some poor unfortunate souls.

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 10:40 AM
I need to find a way to get some red in between the ribs, and the head could use a bit of tidying up though.

blackout
2006-12-02, 10:41 AM
Hmm....Nope, I got nothing.

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 10:43 AM
Im thinking about painting the whole area with gore red, then painting the ribs with bleached bone.

blackout
2006-12-02, 10:44 AM
Nah. Everyone in my community that plays nids does that. It gets old.

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 10:46 AM
do they almost glue the hands on the wrong places?

blackout
2006-12-02, 10:46 AM
Only those that just started a few days ago. ;)

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 10:48 AM
I suppose thats me, I put the left arm where the right should have been.

fixed it before the glue dried though.

blackout
2006-12-02, 10:51 AM
Ah. Good. But, really, no gore red on the chest, everyone on my block does that. I suggest bone white all over, with some shade of grey on certain areas.

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 10:52 AM
too late :P

plus i dont have grey paint....

blackout
2006-12-02, 10:53 AM
:( Ack. Oh well, good luck with your generic Brood Lord. I'm sure you'll get pwned by people who give their troops unique paintjobs.

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 10:57 AM
i messed up with some black paint dry brushing and had to paint over it, now it looks like its been scroched. looks pretty good.

blackout
2006-12-02, 10:58 AM
really? Well, in that case, go pwn the folks with generic paintjobs, you artist!

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 10:59 AM
I recommend putting some watered down black underneath paint, then painting over it with the normal colour, then wiping some of it off. It looks like the character has been burnt.

but overdoing it makes it look stupid.

For now it the color of the Brood Lord is bleached bone with a good bit of gray schorch like marks.

blackout
2006-12-02, 11:06 AM
Cool. I might do that with a couple of my tanks, give em some blast marks or something. But the infantry all get the same general paintjob: multiple random shades of red splattered all over.

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 11:22 AM
The only problem is, its a semi-hit or miss process. It takes a couple of tries to get right.

Ill try to get a picture sometime soon.

blackout
2006-12-02, 11:26 AM
Kk. :) I'd post a pic of my little Tau Fire Warriors in their adorable little blood-spattered battlesuits, but I don't have a scanner. :(

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 11:37 AM
I dont know how to download photoes from the digital camera :P

ill try the scanner method.

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/1326/broodlordsmallra8.png

there it is

blackout
2006-12-02, 01:05 PM
>:) Niiiiice.

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 01:33 PM
It looks like it just got a face full of flames. Thats what I was aiming for.

blackout
2006-12-02, 01:43 PM
Well, you nailed it. :) Nice job, buddy!

DeathQuaker
2006-12-02, 01:56 PM
Well, I live in the swamps of Louisiana. :( Sry, no tabletop tourneys. I'd love to play against you, just to prove Tau can win any day of the week.

I never doubted Tau's potential.

Nor any other army's, including my own.

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 02:06 PM
If I take that long as I did with this one, it will take me around a month to finish painting a battle force...

Saithis Bladewing
2006-12-02, 02:11 PM
If I take that long as I did with this one, it will take me around a month to finish painting a battle force...

That's never a bad thing. :smallbiggrin:

blackout
2006-12-02, 02:34 PM
K...SO, anyone write fluff for their armies? :)

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 02:41 PM
Earlier, I could barely resist saying he just got a fistful of boomstick to the face >.<

I have a strange sense of humor at times...

blackout
2006-12-02, 02:48 PM
Really, any fluff for your armies? At all? I got ALOT of fluff for mine, anyone wanna hear?

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 02:55 PM
Army is a relative term...

My "army" is just a single hq unit (Brood Lord)

blackout
2006-12-02, 03:05 PM
Ok...so, make fluff about your 'army in the making' then.

Selrahc
2006-12-02, 03:36 PM
I've got fluff.

More of it is for the Terminator legion than the chaos hordes... but yeah> I have fluff written up.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-12-02, 03:50 PM
K...SO, anyone write fluff for their armies? :)

Every army I create has a story behind it.

blackout
2006-12-02, 03:56 PM
Cool. Anyone up for some storytelling, or shall I go first?

Mr. Moon
2006-12-02, 03:57 PM
Wow. That's insane. I've read up on them on Wikipedia, but how's the variety of brood types? I mean, anti-infantry, anti-vehicle, meatshield, etc.. How well does a Tyranid army fill multiple roles?

'Nid's are FUN! You see, their like the all around specialists. They have Carnifaz's for tanks, Genesteelers and Hive Tyrants for assualt, and come in thousands upon thousands. For every situation, there is a species that can do the job.

You know what? To heck with Tau, 'Nid's sound like alot more fun. Maybe, when I'm older, I'll get an army of each, but 'till then...

Penguinizer
2006-12-02, 03:59 PM
Ill stick with a Brood Lord (souped up genestealer hq) until I can afford a hive tyrant, or until I bother to get one.

blackout
2006-12-02, 04:01 PM
:( Ack. Oh well, at least I'm secure in the knowledge that my sadistic Tau can slaughter your little hive....

warbacon
2006-12-02, 04:33 PM
You know what? To heck with Tau, 'Nid's sound like alot more fun. Maybe, when I'm older, I'll get an army of each, but 'till then...

Noooo .... turn away from the light! Turn away from the lig... um, gene ... zerg ...

Ah, heck, who am I kidding? You gotta play an army you will like playing. As numerous guides for MMOs out there say, it's more important to choose a character you'll like looking at (and playing) than any measure of power within the game system. Because in the end, you have to be able to like him or her a few months or year down the road. The balance of power in W40k might fluctuate a lot less often than in your average MMO (e.g. the flavor of the week phenomenon), but the same idea applies.

Pick the 'Nids (or Tau!) because you think they are badass. Or not!

blackout
2006-12-02, 04:39 PM
Tau Rule! Deal With It! >:(...Oh wait...whatdya say? :)

Selrahc
2006-12-02, 04:56 PM
'Nid's are FUN! You see, their like the all around specialists. They have Carnifaz's for tanks, Genesteelers and Hive Tyrants for assualt, and come in thousands upon thousands. For every situation, there is a species that can do the job.

You know what? To heck with Tau, 'Nid's sound like alot more fun. Maybe, when I'm older, I'll get an army of each, but 'till then...

You think Nids are all round specialists? :smallconfused:

Nids are anything but.... they have almost nil in true long range firepower. They struggle in the tank busting department, they rely heavily on close combat, and they have big screw you characters as opposed to smaller, more all round commanders.

Space Marines are all rounders, Chaos Space Marines are all rounders, Eldar or maybe even the Orks are all rounders.

Tyranids are hordes, backed up by monsters.

Thats fun, I've played my Chaos army in that configuration a few times. But it does not make you an all round specialist.

Matthew
2006-12-02, 05:03 PM
My Imperial Army has a running history... and has done for about fifteen years...

blackout
2006-12-02, 05:09 PM
>:) Sweeeeet. So does my army. I always keep a fluff-style record of every fight they've been in.

Matthew
2006-12-02, 06:28 PM
I can't remember every confrontation and I didn't keep a record of them all, but I did for a lot of them. First purchase I made was 36 Imperial Guard Boxed Set. They did good service for the Emperor...

blackout
2006-12-02, 06:53 PM
Feh. Imperial Guard are over-rated. Anyone at all want to see the fluff i've written for my army? FYI, this is the same army I'm gonna be using in the DoW tourney I'm holding...not the models, just the same background, characters, paintjob, etc.

The_Squid
2006-12-02, 07:00 PM
Besides, you'd need the backing of the ENTIRE Tau military to even think of staging an invasion on Terra. Every soldier, every commander, every gun, every round, tank, APC, ship, fighter, artillery piece, you name it. You would need it ALL, plus mercenaries. And that's just for an invasion. For a SUCCESSFUL one, you'd need more. :) Actually, I have to say that that wouldnt even reach Sole in the first place. It would probably be annhilated on the way there. The only reason the Tau aren't dead already is because they're too large to easily destroy, but too small to warrant an enormous campaign.

My reply is kinda late on this, I know. But thats because I haven't checked tis thread in a while.
Has anyone noticed that this thread has strayed far way from it's original intent? Far, far away.

blackout
2006-12-02, 07:02 PM
Their not WEAK...but the Imperials just really know how to fortify their planets...

Saithis Bladewing
2006-12-02, 07:06 PM
It's not necessarily that, blackout, it's that the Imperium outnumbers them by an ungodly amount. An empire their size can't have more than a few thousand planets at most. The Imperium of Man has over a million worlds.

blackout
2006-12-02, 07:10 PM
.........Ok, pleasure being at war with the Imperium, we will now lay down and surrender and await execution, cus the Imperium's cannon fodder's just too damn much for us to deal with. NOT! XD TAU PWNZORZ!

The_Squid
2006-12-02, 07:18 PM
Look, you crummy little pile of xenos-loving dog poo, the Imperium and the Orks are the best. If two teams will be alive in the end, it will be Chaos and the Tyrinads. Tau will die. The Imperium will die too. We're all dead. Live with it.

blackout
2006-12-02, 07:20 PM
O_o Sheesh. Where'd that come from?

The_Squid
2006-12-02, 07:36 PM
Well, Chaos cancontinuosly bring demons through the Eye of Terror. Therefore, you cannot resally kill them all without kinlling the gods themselves. That would be difficult. And the Tyranids are a galaxy-wide... empire... hive... organism... dealy. They reproduce incredebly fast, faster than even orks. So they are practically impossible to destroy. Orks are a close third. The Imperium is big and has a huge population, but everyone is attacking them. The Tau are advanced and expanding, but just don't have enough manpower to take on things like the Imperium or the Tyranids. The Eldar are dying. Everyone knows that. Necrons can be killed by destroying their worlds and crypts. So really, it's just Chaos and Tyranids left. But I think Tyranids would win. They span galaxies.

blackout
2006-12-02, 07:38 PM
.....So? Doesn't mean we can't change the future. ALL ARMIES, CONVERGE ON THE TYRANIDS!

The_Squid
2006-12-02, 08:24 PM
Ok. There is tons of galaxies. Tyranids have conquered practicaly all of them. Good luck.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-12-02, 08:29 PM
Since when do we know that the Tyranids have conquered so many galaxies? I'd be far more worried about the Necrons since they're waking up and they're known to have spread absolutely everywhere.

blackout
2006-12-02, 08:34 PM
Besides, the Nids are coming from ONE galaxy. Andromeda?

Saithis Bladewing
2006-12-02, 09:26 PM
I don't know if Andromeda is quoted as the actual galaxy, but given the astronomy of the universe it's most likely that it is Andromeda.

The_Squid
2006-12-02, 09:39 PM
We know this because where else are the Tyranids coming from? where did ther get the biomass to create their vangaurd organisms and hive fleets? They had to come from somewhere. And, they're eating this galaxy. Who's to say they haven't eaten others?

blackout
2006-12-02, 09:51 PM
They ate Andromeda. THAT'S where they got the needed materials. THEN they migrated to THIS galaxy, and now their eating THIS one. :P

Saithis Bladewing
2006-12-02, 10:10 PM
Andromeda contains 10 trillion stars. I think its feasible that the Tyranids could have gotten all of these resources from that galaxy alone.

blackout
2006-12-02, 10:15 PM
Exactly. :)

The_Squid
2006-12-03, 12:30 AM
But because they are eating this one, and no one knows where they came from, it seems feasible that they consumed several galaxies on the way over to this one.

blackout
2006-12-03, 02:30 AM
Ok, it's possible. I won't deny that. But, I still say that their from Andromeda.

Penguinizer
2006-12-03, 02:36 AM
very possible...

Selrahc
2006-12-03, 05:12 AM
Necrons certainly have the potential to be Last Man Standing. I'd put them fourth.

In fact, heres my "Survival chart"


1. Orks. One BIG waaaagh later and the universe is green. Until that happens the Orks just need to bide their time, getting bigger, and tougher and fighting and killing.
2. Chaos. Eye of Terror, impossible to scourge. Only a few races have even the potential to kill them, and its far too easy for them to create footholds outside the eye. Essentially they have an unkillable base, which spawns darkness at an alarming rate.
3. Tyranids, They can be stopped, hive fleets have been killed before. They may have slaughtered andromeda, but this is a whole other universe. I doubt they could kill Chaos anyway.
4.Necrons. One of the races with the potential to kill chaos. The C'Tan are scary, if the Nightbringer gets back up to full power again he'll be literally unstopable without the talismans of Vaul. The void Dragon already is that powerful, and hes sitting on mars. The necrons have the potential to enslave humanity and bring about a complete conquest of the galaxy. Permanently shutting down the warp. They rank as four because they are still gathering momentum. They could be birth strangled.
5.The Eldar. The entire race is waiting. For an instant win. Every century the eldar god of Death grows closer to waking. If he does then every eldar in a soul stone will be back. The old ones will be recalled. Kaela Mensha Kaine will be reborn and the eldar will retake the galaxy. They're probably going to die first though.
6. Dark Eldar. Not through victory, but through survival. Commoragh is going to be almost impossible to kill.
7. The imperium. A long shot, but they could halt the Nids, Stop the Necrons, Cleanse the eye, Crush the Tau. They are currently one of the big players. But its all a long shot.
8. The Tau. Rats trapped in a tiny barrel. They don't have true warp travel, they can't expand massively. They're a small empire, they're beset on all sides by foes. Survival for even 500 years looks unlikely.

blackout
2006-12-03, 12:59 PM
Things are a little bleak. :(

The_Squid
2006-12-03, 02:05 PM
I'd switch orks and tyranids. Tyranid organisms are becomeing more an more advanced and killy all the time, they're better organised and theres more of them.

Dant
2006-12-03, 03:00 PM
And Dant, do the 13th usually win? :)

Err, in the fluff or when I play them? Fluffwise, they generally complete their objectives but suffer about 99% casualties. When I play them, they usually just die. They're still cool though.
The Space Marines are far and away more courageous. The numbers really do matter.... going into battle with a million men, and the threat of execution if you fail is a lot less brave than going into battle AGAINST a million men, and knowing that the fate and glory of your chapter rests on you.


Plus, you put the imperial guard against the nasty critters like the Nightbringer, or the Bloodthirster and they'll run for the hills.

Space Marines know no fear. Guardsmen do.

Actually, that's what I was trying to get at. Uh, I think it was... Socrates? who said that a volunteer citizen soldier is far more courageous than a professional soldier. Professionals have the training, equipment and experience, citizens do not. Guardsmen have fear and must conquer it. Space Marines just don't have any fear. 1 million guardsmen go into battle knowing that most of them will probably die. 100 Space Marines go into battle knowing that maybe 5-10 of them will die. Which is more impressive?

Selrahc
2006-12-03, 04:11 PM
On the Orks and Tyranids thing....

We have no idea how many Tyranids there are. But they have attacked in force before, and been completely blunted. Macragge and Inyanden stopped a hive fleet. Leviathan looks to be stopped by the Tau. Even if there are 100 hive fleets the loss of two right on the edge doesn't bode well for the tyranids. Their adaptive capacities might save them... but where they might adapt biologically the Imperium can adapt tactically.

Hell, theres even the chance the imperium could just find something to wrest control over certain organisms from the hive mind.

Orks however, are everywhere. Its been mentioned repeatedly that the only thing preventing total conquest of the galaxy is their inability to unify. All they need to unify is a tough enough leader. That will come, sooner or later. It could have been Ghazghull if he had won on Armageddon. The Orks are one leader away from the Green Krusade that will give them complete control of the galaxy.


On the braver guardsmen issue; Space Marines fight odds where they fully expect to die. They go into situations that would drive guardsmen insane. Each space marine stares death in the face and spits in its eye. The crimson fists fought the Orks to near death. The Ultramarines 1st company fought to the last against the Tyranids. The history of the Astartes is full of the corpses of the brave.

Unless being incompetent and wimpy is a sign of bravery, the spacemarines are more courageous.

Dant
2006-12-03, 04:49 PM
And for pretty much every instance of Space Marines fighting to the last man, or winning against impossible odds, I can sort through the fluff and find matching examples for the Imperial Guard. Point in case, Hades Hive in the Second Armageddon War. That was all Imperial Guard, driven not by fear of execution, but a will to save their planet and inspiration from Yarrick. Like I said, Guardsmen do everything Space Marines do. Admittedly, Space Marines usually do it better though.

Selrahc
2006-12-03, 04:59 PM
I doubt there are as many as for the Space Marines.


The fact remains, every space marine is willing to do that, every time. With the guard its unknown. They may turn and run they may not. The greatest among them may have the courage of the space marine. But the courage is in general less.

grinner666
2006-12-03, 05:25 PM
Okay, people, here's the thing: this is a wargame, not an rpg. Play what you think gives you an edge (nothing, actually, will give you an edge, the armies are pretty balanced ... but play whatever makes you think you've got an edge ... or whatever fits your play style). :smalltongue:

I've played three armies, though I haven't been able to play in the past four years, so forgive me if I make a judgement that no longer applies. They've all done good things for me depending on the scenario involved. Here they are:

Dark Eldar: fast, lots of good heavy & assault weapons, about as tough as wet tissue paper (hey, when Imperial Guard "flashlights" [Lasguns] can wipe you out and Bolters can take out your vehicles, you ain't tough ...).

Space Marine White Scars: moderately fast to fast, tough, good armor, crap support units (artillery). Since I consider speed a very important tactical consideration, possibly my best army.

Eldar Ghost Warrior Army: (my best-looking army) expensive in both points and cash, very tough, good armor, wonderful "special effects" weapons (the Eldars' greatest strength, really). Use of multiple Wave Serpent transports (possibly the Eldar's best TANK) can make this a very fast army as well.

Dant
2006-12-03, 05:37 PM
Actually, with Warhammer, it's both. Even the crunchy bits are filled with fluff. Personally, I don't think the game would be half as fun if the fluffy bits were missing and the whole thing was just a math exercise. You could just play chess, it'd be cheaper.

Matthew
2006-12-03, 06:13 PM
Uh, yeah. Space Marines are braver and tougher individual combatants than Imperial Guard. They're genetically and psycholgically manipulated to be that way and they get the best equipment and resources. Does that mean that I think any less of the Imperial Guard? Hell no. The Imperial Guard are the back bone of the Imperium and they fight and die for the Emperor. The Marines are the Spear Tip of the Imperium, but regardless of the propoganda, they couldn't support the Empire alone, any more than the Imperial Army could operate without the Imperial Navy or the Titans or the Work Shops that produce their arms. It's pointless to judge them against one another, as they are part of a composite whole.

Selrahc
2006-12-03, 06:22 PM
You can't say that the guard are individually braver though. Thats what I was arguing against. I wasn't arguing that space marines could support the Imperium single handed.

blackout
2006-12-03, 07:15 PM
Gents, I think your all forgetting the one most important thing of all: When is the Final Judgement coming? ;) The Final Judgement is the time when the Emperor will rise from his throne once more and judge humanity for it's sins...AND THEN THE TAU SHOW UP AND KILL HIM! HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Dant
2006-12-03, 07:15 PM
Yay! I think we're agreeing in different ways! Space Marines are undeniably individually braver than your average guardsman. As a whole though, I find IG armies much more attractive because they can exhibit the same bravery as Space Marines under tougher circumstances. It is true that they need one another. Space Marines are the hammer, IG are the anvil. Actually, Winter Assault made me chuckle, IG as the Emperors hammer indeed...

The_Squid
2006-12-03, 08:32 PM
Selrahc, about what you said about the 100 hive fleets... well, let's just let Inquisitor Kryptmann do the talking.
Quote from Xenology where Kryptmann adresses the Inquisitorial Council: "I have seen a mouth with a billion teeth, and each one is a swarm of living organisms, created only to destory. They have scourged many galaxies before ours, and it is not a matter of whether we can stop them, but how long we can hold the mouth open. This I say to you, my lords, and may the Emperor have mercy on our souls for we shall surely need it."
Or something like that.

Dant
2006-12-03, 09:14 PM
I feel obliged to point out that Kryptmann is in fact human, not a Tyranid. He therefore can not know exactly where they have been, only make educated guesses. Mostly because I'm fairly certain that the Tyranids are the only race to travel between galaxies, so the good Inquisitor couldn't exactly go look for himself. I could be wrong about the travel thing though, Eldar and Necrons maybe... Not that it matters, I'm of the firm belief that the 'nids are going to win in the end. They wiped out an entire other galaxy, what hope does this one have to stop them? Although, if the hivemind could be taken out, a la the overmind, we'd only have to contend with forces already here, as the others would likely be lost in the warp.

blackout
2006-12-03, 09:26 PM
Exactly. We just need to find the main brood-mind thing.

The_Squid
2006-12-04, 12:25 AM
The Hive mind is not a single thing, it's a mosiac of the tiny amounts of physicness in each Tyranid. You'd have to kill them all. All of em. Alot.

blackout
2006-12-04, 06:45 AM
...I'll get the Planetary Napalm batteries, you guys get the Inter-galactic-capable warships.

Jibar
2006-12-04, 07:16 AM
The Hive mind is not a single thing, it's a mosiac of the tiny amounts of physicness in each Tyranid. You'd have to kill them all. All of em. Alot.

This is why our Lord, Jebus Krist, invented...


FIRE!

Penguinizer
2006-12-04, 07:57 AM
It says in the rule book (I can't check, was reading friends) that the Nids' have conquered and eaten galaxies and there are thousands of hive fleets.

PokeTheBard
2006-12-04, 09:30 AM
The war will never be over. It's been going for just over 11,000 years and I don't see why it's going to be over any time soon. Yeah, factions will be beaten like the eventual total annhilation of both eldar races and of the Tau but in the end new things will crop up, people will fuel the war until there's nothing left to fight over but the sake of fighting.

You can find Chaos in anything if you look hard enough, double the case in WHFB. Similarly there are arguments to suggest Chaos isn't evil, just a somewhat insane, melancholy version of good...

such as Khorne only wanted everyone to be strong and thus destroying the weak.
Tzeentch causing change, because change can be a good thing.
Nurgle ensuring his followers don't die of disease and that they are extremely healthy (albeit crammed chock full of plagues, the sacrifice we must make...)
Slaanesh just wanting a good ol' time. It's fair enough, we all get those days where we could do with a bit of decadence...

And if you're undivided you don't generally get many down sides of mutation or the madness... generally...

I'm not saying this because i'm a chaos player, but more because it's sort of a point I felt needed raising.

CHAOS FTW!!!!!111111111

Crazy Owl
2006-12-04, 10:39 AM
Why do a lot of people think that Tau are going to die quickly, they were Primal while the Imperium was using warp travel and now they have better technology than the Imperium has had for many Millenniums. At the rate they are going it won't be long till they have the ultimate weapons where as the Imperium's weaponry is getting worse not better because all they are doing is copying old plans and making mistakes.

Oh and about the good Chaos thing, sacrificing thousands everyday isn't exactly good.

Penguinizer
2006-12-04, 11:39 AM
But the Nids' are ultimate geniusses, they dont even use technology.

They just bio engineer all their weapons from other organisms.

blackout
2006-12-04, 03:46 PM
Why do a lot of people think that Tau are going to die quickly, they were Primal while the Imperium was using warp travel and now they have better technology than the Imperium has had for many Millenniums. At the rate they are going it won't be long till they have the ultimate weapons where as the Imperium's weaponry is getting worse not better because all they are doing is copying old plans and making mistakes.


THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU, OWL! :) That's my point! That's why I like the Tau so much! Their INSANELY advanced for the time period they've been in existance! THAT is why the Tau reign supreme! They advance more than twice as fast as all the other races! It won't be long before they completely wipe out all resistance due to their sheer technological advantage!

Selrahc
2006-12-04, 03:57 PM
Um... I doubt it. As of riight now the imperium is still more advanced than the Tau in certain areas. The eldar and the Necrons are both exponentially more advanced. None of them have acess to doomsday devices that are easily enough created to change wars.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-12-04, 04:05 PM
But, as has been mentioned before, the Tau are growing incredibly fast and, if anything, the Imperium is LOSING its advanced state.

The Tau look around them and see technology more advanced than their own. What do they do? They jump onto opportunities to study and analyse this technology and learn how to implement other engineering and technological feats into their own technology in order to improve it. They learn not just by being very advanced and working together, but also by learning from others. They also absorb technology from other species they encompass into the Empire.

The Imperium, on the other hand, is highly xenophobic and technophobic and treats any unknown or unproven technology like a plague. They are very cautious about using new technology and loathe to use xeno tech unless it is absolutely necessary. Anybody who does is considered a radical. They were pissed enough when the space marine chapters began to produce the Predator Annihilators and Land Raider Crusaders without Adeptus Mechanicus approval.

The Orks honestly couldn't be bothered about technological advancements, they just believe in the power of DAKKA DAKKA BOOM!

The Necrons are the most advanced species as it is and they see no reason to improve themselves if they're doing well.

The Eldar have some misconceived notion that they are the most incredible thing in the galaxy and to be fair, their technology is pretty incredible (albeit comparatively weak in the weapons department. The Tau do outstrip them in terms of weapons tech.

Dark Eldar seem more concerned with survival and, like the Eldar, have some pretty incredible tech at their disposal.

Chaos? I think they suffer from the Ork 'don't give a damn' syndrome, which is only enhanced by their already powerful technology and their incredible sorcerous powers.

So, it stands to reason that within a millennia or two, if left unchecked, the Tau could be up there with the Necrons and Eldar in terms of technological capability, especially considering that the Eldar are likely to look upon the Tau in a more favourable light than they do with the arrogant and pigheaded Mon-Keigh.

Selrahc
2006-12-04, 04:23 PM
But being on a level with the Eldar and Necrons doesn't mean that they are going to be able to do anything to avert their extinction. If you gaqve the Tau all the Necron technology, the Imperium could still crush them with ease.

The first crusade was rather weak, and definitely unprepared. The next one won't be.

The only reason the Tau are still alive is that they could be.... useful. Certainly a buffer against the Tyranid and Ork forces growing in the area.

Bryn
2006-12-04, 04:54 PM
I would say that it was due to the fact that the Imperium's resources are not in fact infinite, and they are too busy fighting, say, the Orks or Chaos to be able to deal with the Tau, who to them do not seem nearly as big a threat.
Case in point: during the crusade against the Tau (I forget which one), IG troops had to be called away to join the fight against Abaddons Black Crusade. If the Imperium could focus all its resources, they could crush the Tau - but the Imperium is beset from all sides, so isn't able to destroy the little blue battlesuited freaks (:smalltongue:)

Saithis Bladewing
2006-12-04, 06:04 PM
The reason the Tau are still alive is not because of their current technological weakness, but because the Imperium has bigger fish to fry, the Orks aren't organised enough to overwhelm them, Chaos and Eldar couldn't seem to care about them, Necrons are too random to eliminate them at this stage and the Tyranids don't seem to have the tactical ability to overwhelm the Tau's superior military skill and technology at this time (though this doesn't mean they can't evolve, and the Tau are trying to deflect attacks away from their territory into others', which just delays the problem, it doesn't solve it).

Also, Z-Axis, it was the Damocles Gulf Crusade, and you're completely right about the IG troops too focused on fighting the Black Crusades and such.

blackout
2006-12-04, 07:57 PM
I still say that, given enough time, the Tau could figure out ways to gain actual FTL travel, weapons on par with the Eldar and Necrons, and maybe even mentally dominate high-ranking people in other races' 'governments' into joining the Tau Empire. Sure, the last ones got a very low chance of actually happening, but it's POSSIBLE.

McDeath
2006-12-04, 10:44 PM
Do you seriously think the Necrontyr are going to let that happen? We're the immortal, technologically advanced overlords here thank you very much! The Necrontyr are going to wipe out sentient life, and that includes the Tau (and the Orks. Just.)!

The_Squid
2006-12-04, 11:52 PM
Remember what I said earlier about genestealer infestations? There's one on Tau. And if it gets to an Ethereal, there's big trouble in store for the Tau.

Plus, naming your homeworld Tau? Can you be more un-original? Seriously, be more smarterer.

blackout
2006-12-05, 12:23 AM
:P Kiss my pulse rifle barrel, buddy. We may not be original, but we can kill things very efficiently. And it's spelled T'au.

Selrahc
2006-12-05, 04:19 AM
Case in point: during the crusade against the Tau (I forget which one), IG troops had to be called away to join the fight against Abaddons Black Crusade. If the Imperium could focus all its resources, they could crush the Tau - but the Imperium is beset from all sides, so isn't able to destroy the little blue battlesuited freaks (:smalltongue:)


It was the Damocles Crusade, and they were called away to fight in the Battle of Macragge.

It wouldn't take anything likie 100% of the imperiums resources. 10 chapters of Space marines, backed up by maybe 150 battleships, and 500 regiments of Guard would absolutely clobber the Tau. A lot less than fought in either the eye of Terror or Armageddon, and a lot less than a fraction of 1% of the imperiums total resources.

blackout
2006-12-05, 06:39 AM
Tau Will Triumph! >:)