Bard alternate class features

[Grayson01]

Okay I have an idea for a bard evangelist. I am looking for some alternate class features. So far I have gone through the Complete Champion, Unearthed Arcana, PHB 2, and the Drow of the Underdark. Is there any other books that give alternate class features for a 3.5 Bard, no Homebrew?

[gorfnab]

Alternate Class Features Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=9488ls1ogds04rl823oa8veku4&topic=8732)
Bard (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=9488ls1ogds04rl823oa8veku4&topic=8686) Handbooks (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=9488ls1ogds04rl823oa8veku4&topic=8936)


Bardic Knack (PHB 2, p 35): Lose bardic knowledge, gain the ability to use half your class level in place of skill ranks.

Bardic Sage (UA, p 49): Adds additional spells and bonus to knowledge in exchange for reduced Bardic music abilities.

Divine Bards (UA, p 50): Wisdom used to determine if you can cast a spell, Charisma used for all other factors, some spells added to the the bard spell list.

Drow Bard (DU, p 57): Gain poison use, lose bardic knowledge and 1 bardic music use/day.

Eberron Bard (ECS, p 34): Trade new bardic music for feats.

Gnome Bard Substitution Levels (RS, p 147):
1st level: Gnome Cantrips (swap some 0-level spells), Counter Fear (replaces countersong)
3rd level: Inspire Defiance (resistance to mind-affecting), lose inspire competence
6th level: Phantasmal Song (fear-like song), lose suggestion
11th level: Secrets of Bardic Trickery, lose a 4th level spell known, get new spells

Half-Elf Bard Substitution Levels (RD, p 157):
1st level: Soothing voice, no countersong
6th level: Command, no suggesion
8th level: Secrets of the Diplomat (bonus spells known), lose 4th level spell known

Healing Hymn (CC, p 47): lose fascinate, boost natural healing and healing spells.

Hymn of Fortification (CC, p 47): lose inspire competence, use bardic music to generate protection from evil type effects.

Inspire Awe (DrM, p 13): Gain ability to inspire awe instead of courage.

Inspire Hatred (EoE, p 21): lose inspire greatness, gain inspire hatred

Inspire Turning (ECR, p 206): Replace Inspire Competence with the ability to boost an ally's ability to turn undead by spending a bardic music attempt they gain +2 levels on their turn check.

Loresong (DS, p 8): Give up bardic knowledge. Once per day (more at higher levels) add +4 bonus to an attack, save, or check roll.

Mimicking Song (DS, p 8): Give up countersong. Use bardic music to give allies a +2 bonus on move silently.

Nature Bard (UA, p 58): gain animal companion, nature sense, resist nature's lure, and wild empathy as a druid. Lose bardic knowledge, inspire courage, inspire competence, inspire greatness, and inspire heroics.

Planar Bard (PlH, p 29):
3rd level: Planar Inspiration (can use music to protect people from planar effects), lose inspire competence
6th level: Planar Dissonance (can temporarily redirect portals to new locations), lose suggestion
12h level: Planar Discordance (can use bardic music as a precipitate breach spell), lose song of freedom

Repel Domination (ECR, p 206): Lose suggestion power. +2 bonus on saves vs mind affecting spells and abilities of the undead, if you succeed in the save they become shaken.

Savage Bard (UA, p 50): Must be chaotic, good fortitude and will save, poor reflex. Modified skill and spell list. Illiterate.

Spellbreaker Song (CM, p 35): Lose countersong, can use bardic music to disrupt casters, giving them 20% spell failure chance.

Spellscale Bard Substitution Levels (RDr, p 110):
1st level: Draconic Bardic Knowledge (bonus on bardic lore checks involving dragons)
3rd level: Inspire Arcana (music gives +1 caster levels), no inspire competence
6th level: Superior Suggestion (higher DC's with suggestion)

Undead Bardic Knowledge (ECR, p 206): Replace Bard Knowledge with specialized knowledge about the undead, works like normal bardic knowledge but with a +5 competence bonus.

[Waker]

Okay I have an idea for a bard evangelist. I am looking for some alternate class features. So far I have gone through the Complete Champion, Unearthed Arcana, PHB 2, and the Drow of the Underdark. Is there any other books that give alternate class features for a 3.5 Bard, no Homebrew?

When you say Bard Evangelist, do you mean the concept or literally Bard and the Evangelist PrC? Also gorfnab has listed all the ACFs available for the class, so that saves me a bit of effort. What kinda powers were you aiming for? Might make suggesting feats and PrCs easier.

And are you sure you don't wanna use some homebrew? All the cool kids are doing it.

[Grayson01]

When you say Bard Evangelist, do you mean the concept or literally Bard and the Evangelist PrC? Also gorfnab has listed all the ACFs available for the class, so that saves me a bit of effort. What kinda powers were you aiming for? Might make suggesting feats and PrCs easier.

And are you sure you don't wanna use some homebrew? All the cool kids are doing it.
I am talking Bard Base class with the PrC Evangalist yes. As far what I am going with more of a divine Bard who's goals are spreading the word and message of Corellon Larethian. For feats(3 cause of flaws) I am going with extra song, Jack of All Trades, and Negotiator. Third level Versatile Performer, 6th Arcane Disciple (War Domaine). 9th maybe True Beliver one of his goals will be locating one of the two Larethian relics from CD. So far the alternate class features I am taking at first taking Healing Hym and Bardic Knack (which will work best with Jack of all trades so I can use it with "Trained only skills") and at third Hym of Fortification.
I want him to be the face of the party and a bit of a controller/secondary healer. Also is there a feat/skill trick that allows concentration on Bardic music as a swift action. I was thinking about the swift concentration skill trick but don't know if there is a case to have it count towards Bardic Music.

[Grayson01]

Alternate Class Features Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=9488ls1ogds04rl823oa8veku4&topic=8732)
Bard (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=9488ls1ogds04rl823oa8veku4&topic=8686) Handbooks (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=9488ls1ogds04rl823oa8veku4&topic=8936)
Thanks for the help all great ideas.

[Waker]

Are you actually using the Divine Bard ACF? Its not too bad actually, even if the casting stat is split. Is there any particular reason you are getting Versatile Performer? It doesn't really add much, since most abilities don't tend to care what kind of Perform check you are making. You should take a peak at Melodic Casting in Complete Mage. Make a Perform check in place of Concentration and you can cast spells while using Bardic Music, very handy.

I was thinking about the swift concentration skill trick but don't know if there is a case to have it count towards Bardic Music.
Not sure, there are a few skill tricks from Dragon 357 that might interest you though.
Distracting Taunt- AoO or Readied action against caster, make opposed bluff check. If successful, caster needs to make a Concentration check DC 10+Bluff bonus+Spell lvl or they lose the spell.
Ecstatic Ferver- Apply only half damage to Concentration check DC when casting or maintaining a spell.

Also have you considered taking levels in Crusader? White Raven meshes really well with Bard, especially if you take Song of the White Raven.

[kulosle]

Just so you know, bardic knack ranks don't stack with normal ranks. I've had more than one player think they could break the rank limit with this.

And a little of topic but i've always wondered, so what happens if i have take another class like Troubadour of Stars that gives bardic knowledge when i switched it out for bardic knack, does the Troubadour of Stars levels count towards bardic knack or do i just gain bardic knowledge and are separate levels? Also what about classes who's levels only stack with bard levels for bardic knowledge, but doesn't actually give you bardic knowledge, like sublime chord, do they stack for bardic knack or do those virtual levels do nothing?

[Maginomicon]

Okay I have an idea for a bard evangelist.There's actually an "evangelist" base class (a variant cleric; Dragon 311 page 52) that might interest you.

[Talya]

Just so you know, bardic knack ranks don't stack with normal ranks. I've had more than one player think they could break the rank limit with this.

And a little of topic but i've always wondered, so what happens if i have take another class like Troubadour of Stars that gives bardic knowledge when i switched it out for bardic knack, does the Troubadour of Stars levels count towards bardic knack or do i just gain bardic knowledge and are separate levels? Also what about classes who's levels only stack with bard levels for bardic knowledge, but doesn't actually give you bardic knowledge, like sublime chord, do they stack for bardic knack or do those virtual levels do nothing?

Ultimately the rules are silent in all these cases, so ask your DM.

If you asked me:

Classes that grant bardic knowledge could also trade for bardic knack, if you wanted them to do so (Then the levels would stack.) If you don't trade, you get both, but at lower levels because they aren't stacking.

Classes that stack bardic knowledge would also add to bardic knack.

[kulosle]

Ultimately the rules are silent in all these cases, so ask your DM.

If you asked me:

Classes that grant bardic knowledge could also trade for bardic knack, if you wanted them to do so (Then the levels would stack.) If you don't trade, you get both, but at lower levels because they aren't stacking.

Classes that stack bardic knowledge would also add to bardic knack.

That is serious sadness. Cause i had an idea for a character that just took one level in all the classes that stacked with bardic knowledge, replaced it for bardic knack and had bloodline 3, that ends up being like 10ish classes each class would have an effective level of 4 or higher so at the end you end up with like an effective 50 for bardic knack. So many skills.

[Grayson01]

Are you actually using the Divine Bard ACF? Its not too bad actually, even if the casting stat is split. Is there any particular reason you are getting Versatile Performer? It doesn't really add much, since most abilities don't tend to care what kind of Perform check you are making. You should take a peak at Melodic Casting in Complete Mage. Make a Perform check in place of Concentration and you can cast spells while using Bardic Music, very handy.

Not sure, there are a few skill tricks from Dragon 357 that might interest you though.
Distracting Taunt- AoO or Readied action against caster, make opposed bluff check. If successful, caster needs to make a Concentration check DC 10+Bluff bonus+Spell lvl or they lose the spell.
Ecstatic Ferver- Apply only half damage to Concentration check DC when casting or maintaining a spell.

Also have you considered taking levels in Crusader? White Raven meshes really well with Bard, especially if you take Song of the White Raven.

Not using the Divine Bard because of the split my wis probably won't be high enough for the spell levels and would make me even more MAD then my character already is. As for Versitle Pfreformer for the fun of it, I need Preforme Oratory but I want him to play the flute too. No real game Inhansing reason other then the bonuse to preform when using more then one. Thanks for the hint on Meldodic casting

[Grayson01]

Are you actually using the Divine Bard ACF? Its not too bad actually, even if the casting stat is split. Is there any particular reason you are getting Versatile Performer? It doesn't really add much, since most abilities don't tend to care what kind of Perform check you are making. You should take a peak at Melodic Casting in Complete Mage. Make a Perform check in place of Concentration and you can cast spells while using Bardic Music, very handy.

Not sure, there are a few skill tricks from Dragon 357 that might interest you though.
Distracting Taunt- AoO or Readied action against caster, make opposed bluff check. If successful, caster needs to make a Concentration check DC 10+Bluff bonus+Spell lvl or they lose the spell.
Ecstatic Ferver- Apply only half damage to Concentration check DC when casting or maintaining a spell.

Also have you considered taking levels in Crusader? White Raven meshes really well with Bard, especially if you take Song of the White Raven.


Just so you know, bardic knack ranks don't stack with normal ranks. I've had more than one player think they could break the rank limit with this.

And a little of topic but i've always wondered, so what happens if i have take another class like Troubadour of Stars that gives bardic knowledge when i switched it out for bardic knack, does the Troubadour of Stars levels count towards bardic knack or do i just gain bardic knowledge and are separate levels? Also what about classes who's levels only stack with bard levels for bardic knowledge, but doesn't actually give you bardic knowledge, like sublime chord, do they stack for bardic knack or do those virtual levels do nothing?

I know Bardic Knack dosent stack with regular ranks, but you can't use Bardic Knack with Trained only skills, so by taking jack of all trades all skills are "trained".