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Ezra_The_Mad
2013-05-03, 06:02 PM
Hello, brewers. I'd like to join your ranks, and my first idea was a super pyromancer. The idea was that this was someone who had an open gate to the Plane of Fire in their souls, granting them power similar to that of a warlock. It would also be associated with everything that involved fire or the Plane of Fire. All the planes it touches or creates- the Plane of Ash, the Plane of Radiance, the Plane of Magma, everything. It's an invoker chassis with some druid/magus flavoring. Along with invocations, you gain five different Shapes-

-The Shape of Obsidian, gained at fourth level. This turned you into a natural weapons nightmare with extra speed and armor. This turned off your standard Firebolt, but you gained a progression of natural weaponry attacks similar to Milo v3's Tainted Scion of Venom. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13337259)

-The Shape of Ash, gained at tenth level. This turned you into a Fine Swarm of volcanic ash, taking up squares equal to your CL*10. You would gain a number of abilities revolving around the creation of Dustform (Sandstorm) creatures out of your own ashes, treating yourself as numerous types of "cloud" effects (Obscuring Fog, Solid Fog, Cloudkill, Incediary Cloud, etc), with the "capstone" allowing you to become a whirlwind of ash and flame.

-The Shape of Fire, gained at fourteenth level. This gave you the Incorporeal subtype, and enhanced your Firebolts and their CL. This also grants access to the Solar tier of invocations.

-The Shape of Magma, gained at eighteenth level. This grants a ridiculous amount of natural armor, an automatic aura of burning heat, and access to the Pyroclastic tier of invocations.

-The Shape of Light, also gained at eighteenth level. This also grants the incorporeal subtype, and most of the same powers as the Shape of Fire. Notably, you gain the ability to fight at lightspeed, effectively granting numerous teleportation-based SLA's and Flurry of Blows equal to your effective Monk level.

While the invocations and Shapes are the important ones, two other things are foremost in my mind- The ability to ignore fire resistance/immunity, and the relevant ability scores.

The solution to the first came to me while reading the d20pfsrd page for the Red Dragon. At the Ancient age level, they gain the ability to control any fire effect within a certain range as if they had cast it. A version of this could be spread out through the early-mid levels, first granting fire resistance and the ability to ignore resistance, then immunity and the ability to ignore immunity, followed by the full aura.

The second is still up for grabs. I'm toying with the idea of a Con-based invoker on the grounds that you're a walking nuclear reaction and how well you can regulate that bodily function governs how powerful you are. There are a number of ways to play the class as I envision it- a straight up brawler using the Shape of Obsidian and going for Str and Con, a roguish sort using the Shape of Ash using Dex and Int, and a blaster using Dex and Con to pump out the damage.


Because this is my first brew' and also kind of complex, I would appreciate suggestions and help.

EDIT- Following some research, there are a couple of pretty interesting Inner Planes that touch the Elemental Plane of Fire. these include Obsidian, Pumice, Fumes, and Sparks. These are being incorporated.

Note- If this ever actually gets off the ground, at least a third of the credit goes to ErrantX. His homebrewed invokers and running the PRC contest were what inspired me to brew, and his invoker chassis is what i'm building this off of.

Changelog
5/3- Begin project. Work on basic invocations begins.
5/4- Completed blast shape invocations, most of the least/lesser blast essence invocations. I do need suggestions for the greater/solar tier. Laid out framework for class features (BAB, saves, skill list, skill points)
5/5- Work on utility invocations ongoing. "Shape" class features beginning to take, well, shape. Completed a template for the Weeping Angels, denizens of the plane of Pumice.
5/6- Finished a bunch of class features, tightened up the weeping angels and their annoying quantum lock ability, added a couple of invocations, and created a special material. Feeling good! Except for the part where I wrote this entire thing in the incorrect grammatical form and had to redo it, and then redo it again with gender-neutral pronouns! Gaze into the maw of madness! Taste it's putrescent breath.
5/7- Still working on grammar edits, but I got all the inferno shape and essence invocations done. Book and internet diving for ideas for utility invocations has been rewarding and ongoing. Work on class features is also done. Problems with dead levels, which don't exist in PF, are cropping up. Bonus feats are the solution. Work on two more homebrew monsters related to the class- the neutronium phoenix and the nuclear dragon- will begin once there are at least 10-15 possible utility invocations for each tier and i've nailed down the bonus feat list.

The Mentalist
2013-05-04, 01:58 AM
I would add a Ranger style "Path" allow access to all the forms but give a specialty.

Some Invocation ideas

Imbue with Flame
Any creature hit with this Evocation gains +1/2CL Dex but bursts into 5 points of Fire Damage per HD of the target in 5' per Size Category above Diminutive.

Body of X Invocation Series (all Dark Invocations)
(I envision these as transforming into small tears in the planes)

Body of Fire:
All creatures within 10' per CL take 1d6 damage per 2CL per round

Body of Radiance
All creatures within 10' per CL must close their eyes or be permanently blinded (Fort Negates every five rounds), in addition all creatures within the radius take 2d4 Positive Energy Damage and 1d4 Fire Damage per 4 CL per Round

Body of Ash
All creatures within 10' per CL must make Fortitude saves or holding their breath, in addition terrain within the area is treated as difficult and deals 2d4 Negative Energy damage and 1d4 Fire damage per 4CL per Round.

Body of Obsidian
You gain + twice your CL to Str and Con and DR equal to your CL/Adamantium and CLd6 Fire damage on all attacks

Body of Fumes
All creatures within 10' per CL are nauseated unless they make a Fortitude save and all creatures in the area gain 20% miss chance.

Body of Sparks
All creatures within 10' per CL have a 20% chance of losing their actions every round in addition all creatures within the radius take 1d6 Electrical Damage and 1d6 Fire Damage per 4 CL per Round

Tongues of Flame
You gain one tentacle attack per CL that deals 1d6 Fire damage, these tentacles have double your natural reach.

More to follow...

Ezra_The_Mad
2013-05-04, 03:34 PM
Oh, I apologize if I was unclear. You gain access to ALL the shapes and their permutations. The "dark" tiers of invocations are only accessible while in certain shapes because they're the equivalent of 7/8/9 level spells.

I love the Body of X invocations. I'll try to incorporate them as "Aura" invocations. You covered a couple of my ideas for Shapes in a few of them, and the Body of Obsidian is basically what i had planned for the Shape of Obsidian. I do like the Body of Sparks and Fumes.

Tongues of fire is probably way too powerful. Up to twenty natural attacks along with reach is the kind of thing that you normally have to make a specific, ludicrously complex build to do. While natural attacks are basically covered by the Shape of Obsidian, how about something like

Tongues of Fire (Xth) (Mantle): Your Mark of the Black Tower (flavor organization) flares into life and brings forth lashing whips of fire. You gain 1 tentacle attack per 4/CL. These attacks deal damage as appropriate for your size, and are valid targets for your Inferno Blade invocation. The tentacles have double your natural reach.

ironwizard
2013-05-05, 06:57 PM
CON based casting is a bad idea. It's too SAD. I experimented with a CON caster at one point, but after a single session of play test it was obvious that it was too good (Admittedly, this was traditional spell based casting). It might work for an invocation based class, since they're generally not as good as spells and not as stat dependent, but it does create the ultimate SAD class. It certainly fits flavor, but a different way to go with that might make it require good CON for something else. Or perhaps duel casting stats, bonus spells via CON, saves via INT or CHA or something.

Ezra_The_Mad
2013-05-05, 07:53 PM
I'm inclined to agree, but none of the other "casting" stats fit in my head. I'm going to post a couple of the more "unique" invocations for review. The "Mantle" invocations are effects similar to that of a martial stance, remaining on until the aura is left. Note that i'm balancing this around low-tier two, high tier three.

Commandment of Flame (8th): You reach out to the elemental earth and fire within creatures, and bend it to your will. This invocation mimics a dominate monster spell of your caster level. It works only on creatures that possess the earth or fire subtype, the Burn special attack, or creatures with a breath weapon that deals fire damage. Creatures with the Earth, Fire, or Elemental subtypes take a penalty to their save equal to your Constitution modifier. You may command a number of creatures equal to half your CL. This invocation has a 1d4 round cooldown.

Infrared Blast(4th): Your inferno blast becomes a wave of infrared radiation. This has two effects. Firstly, the massive thermal flare makes your targets clear to anyone possessing infravision (darkvision). Treat the targets as being affected by a faerie fire spell of your CL, but it is useful only to creatures possessing darkvision. Additionally, the Blast is now outside the visible wavelength of light-treat it as affected by the Invisible Spell metamagic feat (Cityscape 61).

Radioactive Blast(5th): Your inferno blast becomes a blast of lethal radioactive plasma. On a successful hit, the target is heavily irradiated. They are infected with a radiation sickness (treat as mummy rot), which can only be cured by casting heal followed by greater restoration. A successful Fort save negates the radiation sickness, but the DC has a +3 bonus.

Burning Gaze (7th): For most people, this is a metaphor. You can do one of two things- you can use your inferno blast as a gaze attack, in which case it has a 60 foot range. While the gaze is active, you cannot use any other Inferno shape or essence invocations. You can also affect your inferno blast as if by the Ocular Spell metamagic feat (Lords of Madness 181). You can choose two inferno essence invocations and store each one in eye. When you so choose, as a full round action, you can fire both ocular inferno blasts as rays with a 60ft range. They both deal full inferno blast damage and offer any saving throw the essence might. If you have ocular inferno blasts stored, you cannot use the gaze attack.


Shooting Star (9th) (Mantle): Regular magical flight is fast. Flight powered by nuclear fusion is very fast. Upon activating this invocation, two thing happen. Firstly, you begin emitting light as a daylight spell of your caster level. This light rims your form and produces an effect similar to that of a winds of vengeance spell (A shell of breathable air, protection from ranged weapons and gases, immediate action retributive attacks). Secondarily, you gain the ability to fly. Very, very quickly. You gain a flight speed on (CL+Con)*10, with Perfect maneuverability.

Just to Browse
2013-05-05, 08:10 PM
Most of the problems with Con-casters is that they're MAD and they get mad hitpoints (C WAT I DID THAR?). If you're making them a Con-based caster, a d4 hit die is a good idea, or you can make all their spells tax hit points and give them some crazy regen or temp HP.

The homebrew itself is a little... out of focus. A super pyromancer immediately brings to mind
Summoning fire elementals
Turning into fire
Shooting fire
Destroying terrain

The stuff here doesn't really fit those ideas. A lot of it is just regular magic (fast flight, mind control, anti-invisibility, anti-melee buffs) with fire flavor. So my confusion is, do you want to make a pyromancer class that does specific fire things, or do you want to make a wizard-style class with fire flavor?

Neither of those is inferior to the other, it's just that there are easy ways to make each and hard ways to make each, and you appear to be picking a hard way.

Ezra_The_Mad
2013-05-05, 08:47 PM
I was planning on d6 hit die, medium BAB, and good Reflex and Will saves. Is that appropriate?

Don't worry, there's a ton of everything you mentioned. At least one class feature revolves around summoning dustform creatures made of ashes, another one is literally turning into fire (if you're familiar with One Piece, think of the Mera Mera no Mi), and a lot of the terrain deformation is present in things like transmute rock to lava, stone shape, soften earth/stone, vitrify, wall of fire, wall of stone, move earth, and so on.

The flavor is meant to be a warlock who is not only drawing power from the Plane of Fire, but from every para- and quasi- elemental plane that involves the Plane of Fire. Meaning smoke, fumes, sparks, radiance, magma, obsidian, pumice, and ash. Which is an admittedly broad range of possible effects. I think this might be a wizardly type class. What is your advice on the building of such a thing?

Just to Browse
2013-05-05, 09:17 PM
Well since it's your first homebrew, I would recommend taking the sorcerer and cleric or druid list (just pick 1-2 lists to go through so you don't die of worload), pick 5-10 interesting and effective spells, and then reflavor the **** out of them. You can get tons of mileage from making confusion into mindfire and changing charm person to charm elemental.

EDIT: Herp, this is supposed to be an invocation caster. I'm not sure what to do with that, since warlocks are all about small spell lists and at-will casting, and you seem to be emphasizing breadth, but I'd recommend bridging the two by making this a sorcerer. You could even hurt it a bit by giving it stuff like [Fire] subtype, which would give you an excuse to fill it with actual class features!

Ezra_The_Mad
2013-05-05, 09:31 PM
I...may not be following you here. Are you suggesting I scrap the "invoker" thing and give it Sorcerer casting with a different set of class features? I feel that the list of invocations can be as broad as you want, because the character only gets a total of 20, at twentieth level.


And it does get the Fire subtype! At level 8!

Just to Browse
2013-05-05, 09:40 PM
The way I read your class plan, it looks like you're trying to make the Pyromancer someone who has access to the entirety of fire magic. Someone who has access to gate (travel mode) when you need to get to get to the city of brass, but also has repair minor damage when the monk wants to fix his nunchaku and scryburning eye when you want to spy on the necromancer. That implies a wizard-style character with lots of spell flexibility.

Do you instead want a warlock-style class in which there is a huge number of invocations, but players only get to choose a few?

Ezra_The_Mad
2013-05-05, 09:52 PM
Yes! The latter. A large amount of invocations but you only get like twenty. Which is admittedly a ton of work and involves some splat diving but whatever.


And gate is for no! It turns combat into "lemme whistle up my boy Uriel to beat up this dude".

Just to Browse
2013-05-05, 10:02 PM
Yes! The latter. A large amount of invocations but you only get like twenty. Which is admittedly a ton of work and involves some splat diving but whatever.All right, then grab all the effective warlock invocations from Comp Arcane (or your favorite fix) and reflavor them! Your work decreases by a whole lot, you get to compliment other homebrewers, and your class is likely to be more balanced because you're adding hours of analysis to something that already has hours of analysis.


And gate is for no! It turns combat into "lemme whistle up my boy Uriel to beat up this dude". Of course.


gate (travel mode)

Ezra_The_Mad
2013-05-05, 10:10 PM
All right, then grab all the effective warlock invocations from Comp Arcane (or your favorite fix) and reflavor them! Your work decreases by a whole lot, you get to compliment other homebrewers, and your class is likely to be more balanced because you're adding hours of analysis to something that already has hours of analysis.



That's basically what i've been doing. I'm diving through any book with warlock support, any invoker or invoker like character I can find and reflavoring like nuts. I'm basically having to homebrew the entire planes of Fumes, Sparks, Obsidian, and Pumice, but it's great fun. The Plane of Pumice sounds boring until you realize it's where the Weeping Angels (who are a summon) live.

And travel gate. I am kind of silly.

Ezra_The_Mad
2013-05-06, 03:12 PM
Well, the three main Shapes along with the framework for the Plane of Pumice is done! The weeping angel template was kind of a chore, but it was worth it.

Ezra_The_Mad
2013-05-07, 07:39 PM
Well, that's the class features done. As a preview, here's the table. The only thing left to finish is the utility invocations and perhaps a few more shape invocations. The bonus feat list is sort of weird even to me but that's what PEACH is for. Hopefully, the class will have it's own thread up by today.

I'm also aware this this thing has a few features that will probably make people froth at the mouth. Again, what PEACH is for.


The Seraph
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Invocations

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2| Infravision (darkvision), inferno blast +1d6|2

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+3|Sparks|3

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|Elemental Aura, Black Tower Training, inferno blast +2d6|4

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Shape of Obsidian, Blessing of Flame|5

5th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Aura of the Flame Emperor, inferno blast +3d6|6

6th|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+5|Infravision (120 Feet, Low Light Vision), Invocations (least or lesser)|7

7th|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+5|inferno blast +4d6, Black Tower Training|8

8th|
+6|
+2|
+6|
+6|Imbue item, Shape of Ash|9

9th|
+6|
+3|
+6|
+6|Blessing of Flame (subtype and planar immunity), Aura of the Flame Emperor (Greater), inferno blast +5d6|10

10th|
+7|
+3|
+7|
+7|Shape of Ash (solid fog), Shape of Obsidian (Focused Strikes)|11

11th|
+8|
+3|
+7|
+7|inferno blast +6d6, invocations (least, lesser, or greater), Elemental Aura (+8 Bonus)|12

12th|
+9|
+4|
+8|
+8|Infravision (See In Darkness), Shape of Obsidian (Elemental traits)|13

13th|
+9|
+4|
+8|
+8|Shape of Ash (stinking cloud), inferno blast +7d6|14

14th|
+10|
+4|
+9|
+9|Black Tower Training, Shape of Fire|15

15th|
+11|
+5|
+9|
+9|Shape of Ash (cloudkill),inferno blast +8d6|16

16th|
+12|
+5|
+10|
+10|Invocations (least, lesser, greater, or solar), Shape of Magma|17

17th|
+12|
+5|
+10|
+10|Shape of Obsidian (Iteratives), inferno blast +9d6|18

18th|
+13|
+6|
+11|
+11|Phoenix Resurrection, Shape of Light|19

19th|
+14|
+6|
+11|
+11|Black Tower Training, inferno blast +10d6|20

20th|
+15|
+6|
+12|
+12|Ascension of Devastation|22[/table]