Robotech Kickstarter

[Wraithcannon]

It's crazy, 30 years after one of the first anime's out there, and it's follow up RPG, we finally get the miniature game.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm

Robotech got me into Battletech, but I tell you this game looks even more kick butt.

[OracleofWuffing]

I'm trying to decide between two possible reactions. :smalltongue:

The first one:
So, like, can I disrupt my opponent's turn by kissing a girl?

The second one:
Do the miniatures come with their own missiles, or are they sold separately?

[tensai_oni]

I'm surprised they managed to secure the rights, since Macross/Robotech is a real quagmire as far as copyright is concerned.

In the meantime...

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/m/image/1348/55/1348555785331.jpg

[HandofShadows]

I'm surprised they managed to secure the rights, since Macross/Robotech is a real quagmire as far as copyright is concerned.

Naw, all the rights and such were hashed out in Japanese courts a few years ago and the international rights were never in question. The only other problem was FASA ripping of Macross and other anime series for Battletech.

[Tengu_temp]

The only other problem was FASA ripping of Macross and other anime series for Battletech.

I have no idea what you're talking about. (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wasp)

[Ishikar]

The only other problem was FASA ripping of Macross and other anime series for Battletech.

FASA did use several anime designs for mechs (most notably the Warhammer, Rifleman, Marauder, and LAMs pulled from Macross) but they did go back later and fix issues regarding the licensing mistakes (except for when harmony gold, they who killed macross in the US, rose a stink about how they not the original creators had control of distribution rights here).

I've been watching the kickstarter and it looks fun. The rules seem simple enough and straightforward and with the large number of items coming out from the kickstarter it seems like it will be a good line. I do want my Quadluns though, how else will I have epic max/miria duels?

[HandofShadows]

FASA did use several anime designs for mechs (most notably the Warhammer, Rifleman, Marauder, and LAMs pulled from Macross) but they did go back later and fix issues regarding the licensing mistakes (except for when harmony gold, they who killed macross in the US, rose a stink about how they not the original creators had control of distribution rights here).

Ah, I see you get fed one of the many BS stories some BT fans tell. FASA only pulled the Mecross mechs when Harmony Gold sued them and their defense turned out to be less than paper thin. FASA didn't get permision from ANYONE to use the Macross mechs in a game (US or Japanese).

[Mando Knight]

Given how Harmony Gold has consistently mishandled the Macross license, I'm inclined to believe FASA's side of the story...

[HandofShadows]

Given how Harmony Gold has consistently mishandled the Macross license, I'm inclined to believe FASA's side of the story...

Then you would be buying into a lie.

http://terrania.us/hg-fasa/legal-4.txt


Contrary to defendants' assertions, plaintiffs do not rely on the rights to Japanese model kits in bringing this suit. Rather, plaintiffs dispute FASA's use of the Macross designs for its entire "Battletech" product line. Because plaintiffs rely on their exclusive rights in the copyrights to the Macross designs, we find that plaintiffs have standing to bring this suit for copyright infringement.


FASA got their so called "rights" from a model and toy importer called Twentith Century Imports. And what kind of license would an importer have? A license to import, not a license for artwork.

[GloatingSwine]

FASA got their so called "rights" from a model and toy importer called Twentith Century Imports. And what kind of license would an importer have? A license to import, not a license for artwork.

The thing is, Harmony Gold got theirs from Tatsunoko, who only had the rights to international licensing of the animation content of Macross, not the rights to the IP and therefore the rights to create derivative works based on character and mecha designs, like toys. TCI did have those rights at the time, and so FASA did actually legally license designs from Macross, Dougram, and Crusher Joe.

Harmony Gold sued based on a license they had acquired from someone who didn't have it in the first place, that's what the Studio Nue/Tatsunoko lawsuit was about a few years ago, around 2000 Studio Nue tried to sell Macross merchandise in the US, which Harmony Gold shut down based on the previous court judgements, at which point Studio Nue turned round and sued Tatsunoko because they had licensed out the character and mecha designs when they didn't have those rights. They won and, essentially, Harmony Gold's license to produce anything derivative of Macross, or attempt to lay claim to any IP in Macross other than the original animated content is void because it was based on IP rights that weren't Tatsunoko's to give.


That's why when they made Shadow Chronicles they basically had to avoid the Macross period, because they're no longer allowed to make derivative works based on it, they can still release their original hackjob, but if they want to make new Robotech content they have to stay in the bits that Tatsunoko actually did own and could legally license out.

[Alex Knight]

The whole kerfluffle started when the guys making the Exosquad toys released a copy of the BattleTech Mad Cat, which is not a Robotech/Macross design. FASA sued, the toy-makers turned to HG, HG counter-sued, and FASA said "wait, what? Didn't we get the rights from the correct people?"

As it turns out, they didn't, so now official Battletech no longer uses those images.

However, Lord Khyron deems this all irrelevant to the Kickstarter. PLEDGE MONEY, FOOLISH MICRONIANS!

[Tengu_temp]

Note that FASA stole some early BT designs not just from Macross, but also other anime, like Fang of Sun Dougram (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleMaster), or even freakin' Gundam. And on top of that, most of those stolen designs have really weak armor and weapons, as if they were saying "look, these robots are inferior to our original designs". The nerve!

Anyway, Robotech game. Looking at so many plastic VF models makes me feel good. So good. Especially Gerwalk/Guardian mode, which is the best idea ever.

[Alex Knight]

Note: Battletech didn't steal ANY designs. What happened was they ran afoul of convoluted Japanese licensing agreements.

It's worth pointing out that they now have the legal right to use the images from all of the "unseen" except the Macross mecha once again.

But anyway. Yes. Robotech! MAC II Monsters, Daedalus Attack specials!

[Hawriel]

The first thing when I found out about the Robotech mini game a few months ago was. Heck yeah I can now get a real pheonix hawk, warhammer, riflemen and archer!

[HandofShadows]

The thing is, Harmony Gold got theirs from Tatsunoko, who only had the rights to international licensing of the animation content of Macross, not the rights to the IP and therefore the rights to create derivative works based on character and mecha designs, like toys. TCI did have those rights at the time, and so FASA did actually legally license designs from Macross, Dougram, and Crusher Joe.


Sorry, but you missed something very important. Tatsunoko acquired the international merchandising rights to Macross at the same time they got the international distribution rights for the animation. Every book, toy, game, piece of clothing and model is *merchandising*. When Harmony Gold went in with Tatsunoko the only thing NOT included the importing of models and toys. TCI was a company that, wait for it, imported models and toys. There is zero reason that they would have anything other than a import/export license. And a import/export license does NOT give you the right to use the Macross images in a game. Heck, FASA never even proved that they even had the licenes they say they got from TCI, as it does not seem to have been shown in court.

And BTW the court case between Tatsunoko and Big West clearly stated Tatsunoko's international rights as including all merchandising. And that is what is important here. IP ownership has zero bearing on it.

[HandofShadows]

The first thing when I found out about the Robotech mini game a few months ago was. Heck yeah I can now get a real pheonix hawk, warhammer, riflemen and archer!

As opposed to unreal ones? :smallwink:

IIRC the scale on these minis will be different than the old Battletech ones, so you might have trouble fitting them on a hex.

[Hawriel]

As opposed to unreal ones? :smallwink:

IIRC the scale on these minis will be different than the old Battletech ones, so you might have trouble fitting them on a hex.

Thank you captain obvious.

[Hunter Noventa]

Of course, this is coming from Palladium, which means the rules will be absolutely terrifying.

It is quite odd though, because I'm pretty sure I've got some rules based on Macross as opposed to Robotech. Like, rules for using music as a weapon a la Macross 7 and everything.

Or maybe that was just fan work, impossible to tell some days.

Also, surprised that Palladium still exists.

[Ishikar]

There's actually a demo of gameplay on the kickstarter page. It's not fully refined (obviously) but it seems like it's going to be pretty straightfoward.

I'm just waiting for my paycheck so I can drop some money in on it and get the MASSIVE value the battle cry looks like it's going to be and with several people locally buying it I'm imagining we'll see some nice activity with it.

[Astrella]

This is really tempting but I already shelled out on Torn Armor half a month ago... :smallfrown:

[Wolf_Haley]

Thisi is cool but I still hold a bit of a grudge against Robotech for making it balls hard to get Maccross stuff.

[Airk]

Of course, this is coming from Palladium, which means the rules will be absolutely terrifying.

THIS is pretty much MY first thought. As soon as they said anything about the old Palladium RPG I pretty much said "Haha, **** no." and closed the page. I'm sure the game has lovely miniatures, but I'm also sure it's going to be a crap game.

[Philistine]

Have they said anything about eventually adding Southern Cross or Mospaeda mecha? I don't see anything but Macross so far.

[GloatingSwine]

Have they said anything about eventually adding Southern Cross or Mospaeda mecha? I don't see anything but Macross so far.

That's largely because no-one gives a **** about Southern Cross or Mospaeda, and no-one would even remember them if they hadn't been tied on to Macross.

[Goobermunch]

For the record--the rules are being done by Ninja Division, a joint venture between two studios that do minis games. There are some concessions to the Palladium RPG, but not as many as you might think.

Yes, they are going to do all the eras of Robotech, but probably not in this Kickstarter. Plan on subsequent Kickstarters annually.

There are demo rules available. They seem straightforward and streamlined. It looks like it will be fun, and not obnoxious.

Also, MK II Monsters. On 70mm bases.

Also, these are 1/285 scale (or 6mm) exactly the same as your old BattleTech Minis.

There are a ton of reasons to join, not the least of which will be Super Veritechs (available as soon as you all pledge at $5,000). :smallsmile:

--G

[Alex Knight]

THIS is pretty much MY first thought. As soon as they said anything about the old Palladium RPG I pretty much said "Haha, **** no." and closed the page. I'm sure the game has lovely miniatures, but I'm also sure it's going to be a crap game.

You should go back and look at the demo video they have. Combat is fast and simple.

[Zorg]

You can actually download a rough draft of the rules as well (http://damommasboyz.com/sodapop/rtkick/robotech-rpg-tactics-rules-preview-v2.pdf), for a look at the mechanics.

[HandofShadows]

RT Tactics actually had a start as Robotech Battles (http://robotechbattles.blogspot.com/) and started off as a fan project that grew into an attempt to make a published game. The maker of RTB seems to be heavily involved with the project still.

[Hunter Noventa]

Thisi is cool but I still hold a bit of a grudge against Robotech for making it balls hard to get Maccross stuff.

This too. Though the cost of the music is most of the reason we didn't get anything after Plus, even to this day.

[mangosta71]

That's largely because no-one gives a **** about Southern Cross or Mospaeda, and no-one would even remember them if they hadn't been tied on to Macross.
The story in Southern Cross was total fail, but it had cool mecha. Hovertanks and AJACS (didn't get nearly as much screentime as they merited) FTW!

Mospaeda had a good story and cool mecha. Because honestly, has there ever been an idea as awesome as the Cyclone? Answer: No. No, there hasn't. Also, the Invid were much more interesting antagonists than "humans without emotions".

[GloatingSwine]

Mospaeda had a good story and cool mecha. Because honestly, has there ever been an idea as awesome as the Cyclone? Answer: No. No, there hasn't. Also, the Invid were much more interesting antagonists than "humans without emotions".

How about "the last remnants of a galactic civilisation that destroyed the essence of its culture and everything other than its ability to make war in order to save itself from a threat it couldn't comprehend?"

Because, y'know, that's what the Zentradi are.

[mangosta71]

Admittedly, the Zentraedi backstory has the potential to make an awesome prequel series. Instead of the triumph of the human spirit that underlies the rest of the franchise, it would show the depths of desperation in a struggle for survival as their empire collapses around them.

But in Macross/First Generation, it's nothing more than backstory. It's interesting, but it doesn't make the Zentraedi themselves interesting by itself.

[Philistine]

How about "the last remnants of a galactic civilisation that destroyed the essence of its culture and everything other than its ability to make war in order to save itself from a threat it couldn't comprehend?"

Because, y'know, that's what the Zentradi are.

You know what's funny? Until your last sentence, I thought you were describing the Masters from Southern Cross. Which is a big part of the problem with Southern Cross - it didn't so much "break new ground" as "recapitulate Macross, only in a more disjointed and incoherent way."

Hovertanks are still the bomb, though.