Healer below tier 2

[Seth1221]

I'm preparing a new team of players and decided to stick to tier 3 or 4, mainly for the balance reasons. I'm stumped as I see no healers below tier 2 (favored soul). Am I mistaken? Are there any dedicated healers below tier 2? What about alternate ways of healing (Not yet sure if the team will have UMD). Any insight on the issue?:)

[Slipperychicken]

Inb4 Healer.


EDIT: Oh my god, that actually worked.

[Lazers etcetera]

The 'Healer' class.

I kid you not.

It is in the Miniatures Handbook and it is crap. You do get a free unicorn though (but no sex).


EDIT: I see what you did there, SlipperyChicken.

It is the correct answer though.

[ArcturusV]

Shugenja. If you choose the Water element you get quite a bit of Healing. And if I remember Shugenja was rated at tier 4.

[Just to Browse]

The healer is indeed a class that exists. But I'd encourage you and your players just to be a favored soul and pick up all the healing spells, because despite sucking (as all healers do), you will at least not come with the healer's problem of having to prepare spells and thus accidentally preparing cure spells when party members get hit with poison or vice versa.

At least the healer gets fast spell access. *shudder*

EDIT: Slippery, having had the pleasure of updating this thread to reply just before you edited your post, wasn't your pre-edit text "inb4 cleric"?

[Seth1221]

The 'Healer' class.

I kid you not.

It is in the Miniatures Handbook and it is crap. You do get a free unicorn though (but no sex).




No thank you, then:smallwink:. What about non-class ways of healing? Other than wand of vigor or those nifty bandages? Startling level 3.

[Zaq]

The 'Healer' class.

I kid you not.

It is in the Miniatures Handbook and it is crap. You do get a free unicorn though (but no sex).


EDIT: I see what you did there, SlipperyChicken.

It is the correct answer though.

You're thinking of Beloved of Valarian, from BoED. BoV has the no-sex clause, not Healer.

This is important, or something.

[Slipperychicken]

EDIT: Slippery, having had the pleasure of updating this thread to reply just before you edited your post, wasn't your pre-edit text "inb4 cleric"?

I realized Cleric was Tier 1, and edited it to "Healer", which got through at 2:38 (same minute as Lazers posted, not sure if it was actually before or after).

[Lazers etcetera]

Slippery did do that. Tsk, cheeky sod.

Actually, Healer itself is probably too crappy for your game. It really is toilet and tier 5 (with 9th level spells, some kind of record).

Tier 3-4 healers...
Crusader has some.
Bard has some, and you could make it a divine bard and they are great to play, bards are good.
Ranger has a bit
Adept (requires some optimisation, otherwise okay)

Be a bard or shugenja. Both have lots of things that are actually fun to do aside from heal.

[Lazers etcetera]

You're thinking of Beloved of Valarian, from BoED. BoV has the no-sex clause, not Healer.

This is important, or something.

Good point. They are very similar but the healer is allowed both the unicorn and the sex. Maybe at the same time (casts Restoration afterwards)

[Frosty]

Doesn't the Healer get Gate at some point? How can any class with Gate get stuck at tier 5?

Good point. They are very similar but the healer is allowed both the unicorn and the sex. Maybe at the same time (casts Restoration afterwards)Many years ago, on the WoTC board I think, I tried to make the argument that by rules-lawyering the wording from Beloved of Valarian, the Beloved is technically allowed to have sex with her unicorn, and ONLY her unicorn.

[Slipperychicken]

Be a bard.

Seconding this. Grab Healing Hymn ACF (CChamp), it lets you improve healing rolls, and is notable for vastly increasing the usefulness of CLW wands (now healing 1d8+[your level+4] when you spend a Performance, instead of the regular 1d8+1).

[Diovid]

A Divine Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantDivineBard) using the Healing Hymn variant ability (Complete Champion) does an alright job at healing.

[Feint's End]

Seconding Shugenja and Favoured Soul. They both come with their own advantages.

Favoured Soul: Casting from the Clericlist which is by itself one of the 3 biggest lists ingame and therefor more versatile than the Shugenja list (though you should ask the dm to add appropriate spells to the Shugenja list anyways) and in addition somewhat better as a fighter (for what it's worth it)

Shugenja: The Shugenja is on it's own more a castertype than the Favoured Soul with less choices to make. On the outside there is not really a good reason to pick Shugenja over Favoured Soul but there are 2 reasons (well actually 3 if you count flavour but again ... it's always easy to reflavour) namely access to some unique spells (that is a small benefit though) and the detect element class ability (Which is downright good if you boost your spellcraft check what shouldn't be a big problem anyways).

What would I pick if you need a low tier healer? Maybe I'd go with a Crusader focusing on healing strikes and Martial Stance. No joke. Seeing on how ineffective healers already are a Crusader can do the trick for healing (though you have to find a way to rezz and heal attribute damage and poison) and if you build him around defense and lockdown (aoos are your friends).

If you want to go with a full caster I'd pick the Shugenja for the more caster like flavour and because Sense Elements is a great class ability with tons of in- and out of-combat uses and easily better than the classskills of the Favoured Soul together (depending on what kind of Character you want you might disagree)

Hope I could help

Edit: Favoured Soul is t2 btw (as sorceror) and argueably Shugenja too (after all it's a full casting class) so I'd think about taking a mix of bard and Crusader. That should give you most of the needed tricks.

[Slipperychicken]

What level are we starting at, by the way?

[Seth1221]

What about non-class ways of healing? Other than wand of vigor or those nifty bandages? Startling level 3.

Already answered that one:smallwink:

[Fyermind]

Healing damage isn't really a problem. It's cheap and easy in almost any party. If you want to heal damage fast you basically need a high end divine spellcaster. The problem is removing status conditions. The most problematic status conditions are being made out of stone and being dead.

For most other status conditions, waiting a round or having a paladin and a dragon shaman on call can solve your problems.

I give my vote for dragon shaman focusing on metabreath feats for in combat effectiveness after level 4. Play a dragonborn lesser aasimer so you can start taking breathweapon feats right away. If anyone really begrudges you the extra ability score points remind them how sucky your character is and that you will never be able to PRC out without losing your ability to effectively remove their status conditions. If that doesn't work threaten to play a kobold. Alternatively, going undead might make your breath weapon charisma based. If it does, do it and never look back.

[kulosle]

Bard is one of the best healers, in fact it's the only heal bot i'd ever play, because the main important thing a bard does is in round 1, then after that you can dedicate yourself to healing and aiding, while still being one of the biggest damage dealers, (via DFI buff). It's really great. You can heal while not feeling useless otherwise.

Another great option is dragon shaman, get the aura that gives everyone fast healing 1, and thats all you really need. If you need more than that your doing it wrong.

Oh so there is a thread from like a year ago about why you don't need a heal bot. You don't, there is enough healing items, and summon monster 4 or was it natures ally, one of the two that summons a unicorn and heals ALOT. The main idea is getting damage and defenses is more efficient than getting healing. And you definitely never want to prepare a healing spell. It's a grim day when you get ready for the day and you know you have to prepare to get hurt.

Edit: ah Fyermind got to dragon shamans before me. so consider this a vote for what he said.

[Lazers etcetera]

Doesn't the Healer get Gate at some point? How can any class with Gate get stuck at tier 5?

Many years ago, on the WoTC board I think, I tried to make the argument that by rules-lawyering the wording from Beloved of Valarian, the Beloved is technically allowed to have sex with her unicorn, and ONLY her unicorn.

Don't know, but Healer is put at 5, which I think is too low. 'Tier 5: Capable of doing only one thing, and not necessarily all that well' - okay, they are not the best at healing, not like a Radiant Servant of Pelor, but they aren't exactly bad at it, are they? They do get Gate, the Ressurection spells, Heroe's Feast, Discern Location and Foresight which are all fine but dull dull dull to play. Not much fun to DM either, I imagine. I think the problem is that they are meant to be a battlefield healer who has to go round with light armour, a low-con mount and no quickened or swift healing so they stand next to the injured barbarian and get cut to ribbons. They do avoid AoOs though.

Your interpretation for BoV has to be correct. I will treat it as canon, Frosty, thank you.

[Frosty]

Your interpretation for BoV has to be correct. I will treat it as canon, Frosty, thank you.What made you decide mine is definitely correct? :smallbiggrin:

[Lazers etcetera]

What made you decide mine is definitely correct? :smallbiggrin:

D&D logic, my friend.

I have just read the entry in BoED and they are incredibly stupid, so it stands to reason they are atrocious perverts and this is exactly the sort of thing they would do.

[Golden Ladybug]

Another great option is dragon shaman, get the aura that gives everyone fast healing 1, and thats all you really need. If you need more than that your doing it wrong.


I give my vote for dragon shaman focusing on metabreath feats for in combat effectiveness after level 4. Play a dragonborn lesser aasimer so you can start taking breathweapon feats right away. If anyone really begrudges you the extra ability score points remind them how sucky your character is and that you will never be able to PRC out without losing your ability to effectively remove their status conditions. If that doesn't work threaten to play a kobold. Alternatively, going undead might make your breath weapon charisma based. If it does, do it and never look back.

Actually, funny thing, but most of what the Dragon Shaman offers, healing-wise, can be replaced with a feat :smallbiggrin:

Draconic Aura (http://dndtools.eu/feats/dragon-magic--62/draconic-aura--696/) lets you pick up Vigor, for infinite out of combat healing with no-action up to half HP. A Wand of CLW/Lesser Vigor will be able to pick up the rest of the healing, and is easily affordable at level 3.

Sure, the Dragon Shaman does a lot of other things that could be fun, like breath weapons and flight at level 19, but if you're just looking at it for Healing...

[Osiris]

I really like Shugenjas, at low levels, they can heal and help the wizard with battlefield control, even though obscuring mist is a bit. . . .Weak. But bards are quite better since they can wear armor, and use saps (I like saps, dunno why :) ) and they can heal as much and get other class abilities and suggestion. They do lose sense elements, though, is there a feat that can make up for that? :smallcool:

[Golden Ladybug]

Well, I'd tell you, but I don't actually know what Sense Elements does :smalltongue:

You know, despite owning and making great use of Complete Divine. I could never be bothered reading the Shugenja's class entry...

[Osiris]

Well, once you choose an element, you can sense the element, based on concentration (and "most creatures are made of all four elements" but fire doesn't make sense) by using a spellcraft check. So if you could sense water, you could find lakes, discern where the oceans are (to find your direction!) and to find people, not undead though, since they're purged of water and they're dried out. I THINK THIS IS CORRECT

Also, you should read shugenjas and their spell lists

[ArcturusV]

The problem is that Sense Elements takes a lot of time to use. And has really limited uses per day. So a lot of the standard uses you might think of for an ability like that is shorted out by the need to say, concentrate and do nothing else for 5 rounds to figure out there is a person sized body of water on the other side of a door (Four rounds after he peeked through the key hole, opened the door, and shanked you to death). Also it's range limited so using it to find water sources in the wilderness isn't really all that useful unless you're already within something like 100 feet of the landmark you're looking for.

Mostly I used it for things like cheating. "Shell game? SENSE EARTH. The Marble sized bit of Earth is under the left cup."

Or things like "Where did I leave my keys... Sense Elements! There's a key sized lump of Earth under my couch cushion."

[Marlowe]

Just one little thing. Shugenja has no armour proficiencies, but it doesn't have problems with ACF either. If you restrict yourself to armour with no ACP you won't have problems.

[danzibr]

Good point. They are very similar but the healer is allowed both the unicorn and the sex. Maybe at the same time (casts Restoration afterwards)


Doesn't the Healer get Gate at some point? How can any class with Gate get stuck at tier 5?
Many years ago, on the WoTC board I think, I tried to make the argument that by rules-lawyering the wording from Beloved of Valarian, the Beloved is technically allowed to have sex with her unicorn, and ONLY her unicorn.
Think I know what my next character is going to be ;)

[Bakeru]

(and "most creatures are made of all four elements" but fire doesn't make sense)Body heat.


Many years ago, on the WoTC board I think, I tried to make the argument that by rules-lawyering the wording from Beloved of Valarian, the Beloved is technically allowed to have sex with her unicorn, and ONLY her unicorn.Depends. They need "Vow of Chastity", and would lose that if they ever had sex with anything. But since the "You loose the Prestige Class if you don't meet the requirements any more"-rule isn't actually core, you might just not be able to progress any more if you loose it, without loosing the class features...

They have to be dedicated solely to "Good and their Unicorn Companion", so obviously, they can't have dedicated relationships with anyone else.

The Unicorn Companion leaves them should they ever "willingly couple with a mortal", making supernatural beings perfectly valid partners.

Or course, the dedication and the "willingly couple with a mortal" part are only in the fluff text, so they might not be taken to serious... In the actual crunch section, there's only this: "The unicorn appears instantly and serves the character for life, provided she remains chaste and of good alignment.", which, sadly, needs a lot more effort to be twisted into a "celestial whore"-interpretation.

[danzibr]

Body heat.

Depends. They need "Vow of Chastity", and would lose that if they ever had sex with anything. But since the "You loose the Prestige Class if you don't meet the requirements any more"-rule isn't actually core, you might just not be able to progress any more if you loose it, without loosing the class features...

They have to be dedicated solely to "Good and their Unicorn Companion", so obviously, they can't have dedicated relationships with anyone else.

The Unicorn Companion leaves them should they ever "willingly couple with a mortal", making supernatural beings perfectly valid partners.

Or course, the dedication and the "willingly couple with a mortal" part are only in the fluff text, so they might not be taken to serious... In the actual crunch section, there's only this: "The unicorn appears instantly and serves the character for life, provided she remains chaste and of good alignment.", which, sadly, needs a lot more effort to be twisted into a "celestial whore"-interpretation.
Was that a pun with the loose v. lose? If so I like it ;)

[Eldariel]

Honestly? Healing Belt for every character, Wand of Lesser Vigor or two for the party and maybe Bandages and you're covered. No class needed. Healer could be optimized to heal decently but that requires a lot of work. Cleric could be played on lower level and just focused on healing, which works just fine.

But Wand of Cure Light Wounds/Lesser Vigor is all the healing you really need. Healing Belt provides the "OH ****!"-burst healing. So...yeah, the classes are just kinda unnecessary.

[Jeff the Green]

Honestly, I suggest Healer, with a couple adjustments:


Casting is Charisma-based
They're full-list spontaneous casters like beguilers and dread necromancers.
They add spells from Spell Compendium to their list.
They add Sanctified spells to their list.


Here's SC spells:
1
Aura against Flame
Conviction
Delay Disease
Faith Healing
Foundation of Stone
Healthful Rest
Inhibit
Ironguts
Nightshield
Resist Planar Alignment
Resurgence
Snowshoes
Vigor, lesser
Vision of Glory

2
Aura against flame
Close Wounds* (Moved from 3rd)
Divine protection
Healing lorecall
Protection from negative energy
Stabilize
Summon elysian thrush


3
Cloak of Bravery
Conviction, mass
Mantle of good
Resist energy, mass
Resurgence, mass
Safety
Shield of warding
Snowshoes, mass
Vigor
Vigor, mass lesser


4
Astral Hospice
Contingent energy resistance
Delay Death
Panacea
Positive energy aura
Recitation
Resistance, greater
Revenance
Sheltered Vitality

5
Dance of the Unicorn
Life's Grace
Revivify
Sanctuary, Mass
Vigor, Greater
Heal Animal Companion (unicorn companion)

6
Energy Immunity
Revive Outsider
Resistance, Superior
Vigorous Circle

7
Fortunate Fate
Renewal Pact
Restoration, mass

8
Death Pact
Death Ward, mass

[Urpriest]

Don't know, but Healer is put at 5, which I think is too low. 'Tier 5: Capable of doing only one thing, and not necessarily all that well' - okay, they are not the best at healing, not like a Radiant Servant of Pelor, but they aren't exactly bad at it, are they? They do get Gate, the Ressurection spells, Heroe's Feast, Discern Location and Foresight which are all fine but dull dull dull to play. Not much fun to DM either, I imagine. I think the problem is that they are meant to be a battlefield healer who has to go round with light armour, a low-con mount and no quickened or swift healing so they stand next to the injured barbarian and get cut to ribbons. They do avoid AoOs though.

Your interpretation for BoV has to be correct. I will treat it as canon, Frosty, thank you.

The reason Healer is Tier 5 is not because they are bad at healing (though overall they are worse than Clerics at it, which is very silly), but that healing is not a great strategy. Tier 5 can indicate that you're bad at the one thing you do, but it can also indicate that the one thing you do just isn't useful all that often, and an optimized healer is kind of a niche role.

[Golden Ladybug]

They're full-list spontaneous casters like beguilers and dread necromancers.

This is boggling in and of itself. Why are Healers Prepared Casters, by default? Its not like they've got much variety to choose from.

I'd also like to mention that I'm slightly amused by your suggestion; "Play a Healer, but fix it first" :smalltongue:

[Jeff the Green]

I'd also like to mention that I'm slightly amused by your suggestion; "Play a Healer, but fix it first" :smalltongue:

I'm actually fond of a (fixed) healer. One of the players in my Ravenloft game played one, and he was pretty effective, between buffs, reactive healing (which, with the changes, was reasonably effective), and damaging undead. I was sad when the player disappeared and I had to kill and zombify the character. :smallfrown:

It does require a player who's okay with that role, though at least with Charisma SADness it can do a bit of Diplomancy on the side.

[gorfnab]

Nightstalker - Dragonlance: Races of Ansalon.

[Bakeru]

Was that a pun with the loose v. lose? If so I like it ;)Sadly, no, it's a typo made by a dyslexic German for whom English is a second language =P

[Uncle Pine]

No thank you, then:smallwink:. What about non-class ways of healing? Other than wand of vigor or those nifty bandages? Startling level 3.

Here it is a very useful thread about healing items (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=1bi3oqpfr35dinpdrb22l0au60&topic=8965).

[JusticeZero]

What tier is the PF Vitalist? 2 or 3?

[137beth]

The reason Healer is Tier 5 is not because they are bad at healing (though overall they are worse than Clerics at it, which is very silly), but that healing is not a great strategy. Tier 5 can indicate that you're bad at the one thing you do, but it can also indicate that the one thing you do just isn't useful all that often, and an optimized healer is kind of a niche role.

It should also probably be noted that most true tier 4s can do stuff outside their one specialty. Versatility isn't about how many "things" you can do, it is about how often you can contribute effectively.

[Frosty]

Think I know what my next character is going to be ;)A Healer? :smallwink:



They have to be dedicated solely to "Good and their Unicorn Companion", so obviously, they can't have dedicated relationships with anyone else.

The Unicorn Companion leaves them should they ever "willingly couple with a mortal", making supernatural beings perfectly valid partners. Yeah, that was pretty much my basic argument. A lot of people bought it too.