Combining items in 3.5

[NikitaDarkstar]

Yes I know I posted just recently to get help, but the game and concept took a very different turn.

Anyway, my question this time is, is it possible to combine a weapon and an instrument? I've ended up making a bard and I'd love to combine a guitar with a weapon (most likely an axe, or possibly a sword), are there any rules for it, or some nice, elegant, simple homebrew for it?

Also I remember seeing bard specific weapons somewhere, that basically was an instrument and weapon combined into one, but I can't find the source again. Does anyone know what book they might be in, and what rules were used to create them?

[Renen]

Well, you can always homebrew it. I dont play bards, but I assume you have to spend an action or some such to pull out the instrument. If that's the case, then just plop +1 enchantment on your weapon, and call it an instrument. If there are no penalties for pulling out the instrument, then just say you have a cool guitar sword.

http://spe.fotolog.com/photo/46/35/66/guitarras__rock/1213972259538_f.jpg

[NikitaDarkstar]

Yes, homebrewing is an option, but I need actual item costs, stats, etc. or creation rules for the DM to go for it. Or just official rules if there are any.

[Renen]

Are there any mechanical benefits to you having a weapon like that?

[Sgt. Cookie]

Do you mean the Instrument Blades from Complete Scoundrel?

[NikitaDarkstar]

Renen, yes and no. There are benefits to the weapon (or more like, penalties for losing it), but it doesn't absolutely have to be combined with an instrument. But since a masterwork instrument gives mechanical benefits on it's own, along with the fact that if an instrument and a weapon is combined you don't have to "waste time" switching between one to the other.

But it's mainly that it's something that would fit my character very well, but I need the mechanics to back it up.

Sgt. Cookie. No those aren't what I'm looking for, even if they're neat in themselves. What I'm looking for was fully magical weapons, that also happened to be fairly pricey.

[Renen]

So there IS a penalty (switching time). If there wasn't, most DM's woudn't care how your weapon looked.

[NikitaDarkstar]

Yes, there is, among several other things. But really, that's besides the point. The question is if there are any official rules/mechanics to support this idea, or if not, if there are any homebrew to support this idea. The details of the game it self are besides the point, and while I don't mind discussing it I would prefer if we stuck on topic until my question got answered. :)

(Really, to explain ALL the reasons for me wanting this would take several pages, and while it might be interesting to some it's honestly not necessary to answer this question.)

[Renen]

Well, looking at the weapon crystals from MIC, there are some that allow your weapons to literally leap into your hands. From that, its safe to assume that for the cost of the 2 crystals, you can swap between instrument and weapon at no cost. As such, add that to your weapon, and call it an instrument weapon.

[NikitaDarkstar]

Sorry, but what I want is a mechanic to actually, fully combine an instrument with a weapon, crystals don't do that, and yes due to house-rules it IS important that the two actually ARE combined. I appreciate the effort Renen, but what I need is exactly what I asked for, either an official, or a homebrew item creation rule that allowed a weapon to be combined with an instrument (or the source for the weapons I mentioned, even if I'm fairly certain they cost far more than a level 5 bard can afford).

[Gildedragon]

Gonna second: Complete Scoundrel instrument blades
or
Steel Flute from Secrets of Sarlona

explaining why:
"due to house-rules it IS important that the two actually ARE combined"
would be useful
as would be knowing which instruments and weapons you want to mesh.

[Chronos]

Note that if you do this, enhancements made to one function won't affect the other. So your "axe" could be masterwork or even magical as a weapon, but produce a sound no better than a normal guitar. Or vice-versa. If you wanted it to give both +1 to attack rolls and +2 to perform checks, you'd have to pay both masterwork prices.

[NikitaDarkstar]

Gonna second: Complete Scoundrel instrument blades
or
Steel Flute from Secrets of Sarlona

explaining why:
"due to house-rules it IS important that the two actually ARE combined"
would be useful
as would be knowing which instruments and weapons you want to mesh.


Actually I doubt it would. But basically the setup is that all our characters "power" is tied to this one specific item, which should be a weapon. We also start with one item, which is a weapon, and clothes. Which is the very, very, very shortened down version of it. Really it wouldn't mess with any mechanics. As for which weapon and which instrument, I'm pretty sure I pointed out sword or axe and guitar? The guitar is set in stone, the weapon is not.

Chronos, I'm well aware of that and I really don't mind it in the least. :)

[Gildedragon]

Oh yeah you did point out.

Instrument Blade is the most straightforward
Alternatively there is the modular weapon property (+150 gp) which lets the weapon be built of bits and pieces; it is not farfetched you could use it as a base to combine both item costs into one (takes a bit to assemble one into the other but...)
Also there is the "disguised" property for daggers (+50 gp) which makes them look like something else; another alternative for binding the prices.

A guitar can easily be made into a club or greatclub even
best make it of something really sturdy though.

[NikitaDarkstar]

The modular weapon property might do what I want it to do, where can it be found? (Sadly the instrument blade doesn't really, it's cool, but it doesn't really seem to do what I want.)

[Gildedragon]

Its from drag mag 316
it talks about turning the weapon into wearable items
Talk to your DM about it; making it a disguised weapon following the guidelines of the modular weapon or the disguised dagger for noticing its alternative purpose is sensible.

[KillingAScarab]

I just happened upon the lute-bow in this web-enhancement for Cityscape (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a). You seem to be looking for a melee weapon, though.

[NikitaDarkstar]

Yhea I am, and sadly my DM turned down modular on the basis of it being from a dragon magazine (the common dragon mag allergy struck :(). But the lute-bow is at least going in the right direction with setting a president for those types of weapons. Not ideal, but at least I can show that it's been done.

[Gildedragon]

A more expensive possibility:
Stat out the guitar as a club of some sort; use a heavier wood as a base
then give it the morphing special property

another alternative: weapon is also custom "summon instrument" magic item. Less expensive than morphing but odd.

In either case I'd say a price deduction is in order as the shapes are fixed (sword-guitar)

[NikitaDarkstar]

Hmm that does sound like a good option, again, source please? (and hopefully not a dragon mag this time :x)

[Jeff the Green]

A more expensive possibility:
Stat out the guitar as a club of some sort; use a heavier wood as a base
then give it the morphing special property

Any guitar sturdy enough to bash someone with won't make much sound. It relies on having a soundboard that vibrates, creating the sound.


Hmm that does sound like a good option, again, source please? (and hopefully not a dragon mag this time :x)

Summon instrument is a bard cantrip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonInstrument.htm). Putting it on a weapon as an at-will ability will cost 0.5*1*1800*2 = 1800 GP.

[NikitaDarkstar]

Seems like my DM agreed that Morphing was a good way to do this. Thanks guys, much appreciated! <3

[only1doug]

If you don't mind it not being simultaneously a weapon and an instrument you could gain inspiration from the swordbow range (MIC) which has a sword and a bow as part of the same item and you can switch its "mode" freely between the two. for further enhancements each part has to be enchanted seperately.

the pricing seems to be (roughly)
cost of each seperate item +1700gp

or perhaps (cost of more expensive of the two mundane items) + enchantment costs of each item + 2000 gp

[Annos]

I just happened upon the lute-bow in this web-enhancement for Cityscape (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a). You seem to be looking for a melee weapon, though.

This Reminds me of an episode of Robin Hood :smallbiggrin: