How to make an effective Dragon Rider?

[Ace Nex]

A buddy of mine wants to play a dragon rider, but doesn't know entirely what to do. We start at level 6, and he wants to go base either paladin or fighter and then the draconomicon PRC dragonrider for 5 levels, and then the Dragonlance dragonrider PRC for 10 levels. Would that work, or is there something better? As far as feats goes, he's got

1st: Skill Focus (Ride), Mounted Combat.(Bonus:Human)
3rd: Resist Dragonfear (Needed for Dragonlance PRC)
6th: Leadership (Also needed)
9th: Ride-byattack (bonus), Spirited Charge

Probably get a Valorous Lance (charge goes to X4), but aside from that he's drawing a blank.

[Gwendol]

Mount handbook: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=25

Skip the PrC, it looks quite terrible. Go with paladin, take dragon cohort feat at nine (switching out leadership you took at six).
Designate the dragon as your special mount (adds +2 LA), give it the celestial template through the ACF in the Planar Handbook (costs 1 use of remove disease/week).
Now, you dragon will be both a cohort and a (celestial) mount, gaining the benefits of both. Your dragon may want to consider the Vow of Poverty feat.

[Lazers etcetera]

A dragon would never consider the Vow of Poverty feat.

There's optimisation and then there are impossibilities. :smallsmile:


(The rest of your post is solid, powerful advice however)

[Gwendol]

Hehe, you mean because of this:

For dragons, there is no such thing as enough treasure.?

Yeah, highly unlikely. OTOH, for a dragon dedicated to a cause, sacrifying its wealth would be the highest form of sacrifice. Note that for a dragon cohort/mount, this might not be the most optimized choice of feat, but it reduces the amount of book-keeping somewhat.

[gorfnab]

Basic Supermount


LG Strongheart Halfling
1. Paladin - Mounted Combat, Track
2. Paladin
3. Paladin - Skill Focus: Handle Animal (prereq for Beast Master)
4. Paladin
5. Paladin
6. Beastmaster - Devoted Tracker
7. Beastmaster
8. Wild Plains Outrider
9. Wild Plains Outrider - Mounted Archery
10. Wild Plains Outrider
11. Halfling Outrider
12. Halfling Outrider - Natural Bond
13. Halfling Outrider
14. Halfling Outrider
15. Halfling Outrider - Ride By Attack (or some other feat)
16. Halfling Outrider
17. Halfling Outrider
18. Halfling Outrider - Spirited Charge (or some other feat)
19. Halfling Outrider
20. Halfling Outrider

Special Mount: 18th level Paladin = Paladin 5 + Wild Plains 3 + Half-Out 10
Animal Companion: 18th level Druid = Beast Master 5 + Natural Bond 3 + Half-Out 10

You could take Dragon Cohort/Steed at 12, Natural Bond at 15, and some other feat at 18.
Noble Heart Paladin ACF (CoV) gives you Track as a bonus feat and Survival as a class skill. This frees up a feat slot if you need/want another feat.

[Lazers etcetera]

Isn't there an utterly broken Pathfinder variant? The thing I am thinking of is Dragonrider 2/Witch 18 which makes you an almost full power witch... but with a full grown dragon as the spell book/familiar.

:smalleek:

It's D&D on easy mode, but I think it can be done.

[Lazers etcetera]

Hehe, you mean because of this:
?

Yeah, highly unlikely. OTOH, for a dragon dedicated to a cause, sacrifying its wealth would be the highest form of sacrifice. Note that for a dragon cohort/mount, this might not be the most optimized choice of feat, but it reduces the amount of book-keeping somewhat.

It might be doable for a Silver dragon as they are more or less paladins anyway. Especially if you gave their cash away in trust to something good.

A Red would tell you to f*** right off between fire breath and biting chinks out of you.

[stack]

Isn't there an utterly broken Pathfinder variant? The thing I am thinking of is Dragonrider 2/Witch 18 which makes you an almost full power witch... but with a full grown dragon as the spell book/familiar.

:smalleek:

It's D&D on easy mode, but I think it can be done.

Its only broken as far as stacking with other classes goes. The class itself is considered mediocre, I believe. Thought it would be hilarious to combine with tattooed sorcerer.

[Gwendol]

The point of advancing the dragon cohort also as a paladin mount is of course for the mount to gain the "command other" special ability.

[Urpriest]

The point of advancing the dragon cohort also as a paladin mount is of course for the mount to gain the "command other" special ability.

Also is a bad idea. Paladin's Mounts gain lots of bonus HD, and a Paladin's Mount who is also a Cohort has an extra +2 LA, so overall you end up with a really weak dragon.

Dragonlance Dragonrider is actually not that bad, assuming that it avoids this problem. Provided that the bonus HD apply after the Dragon Cohort ability goes into effect (which it really should specify, but as always the designers don't get how their own rules work), you get bonus HD and your leadership cap is equal to your level, not level -2, so overall your dragon will be more powerful than a normal Dragon Cohort from the Draconomicon feat. Note that your Paladin levels don't stack for mount advancement as far as I can tell. Your Mount may end up with fewer hit dice than the Supermount, but your HD are all full BAB (bonus HD from Dragon Mount still give 3/4) and you're an older dragon, with better ability scores and special abilities. If you're just looking to maximize your dragon I'd look at both options before deciding.

[Deaxsa]

It might be doable for a Silver dragon as they are more or less paladins anyway. Especially if you gave their cash away in trust to something good.

A Red would tell you to f*** right off between fire breath and biting chinks out of you.

i thought that the gold dragons were the uber-paladins, and the silver dragons were like a middle ground between bronze and gold?

[Gwendol]

Also is a bad idea. Paladin's Mounts gain lots of bonus HD, and a Paladin's Mount who is also a Cohort has an extra +2 LA, so overall you end up with a really weak dragon.


Not saying that you are wrong, but can you explain that a little more, because I don't follow at all.
I mean, you could just go by table 3-15, 3-16 and keep it simple, or go for supermount. Halfling is very much recommended in any case, since for the most part we're looking at medium sized dragons.

[Os1ris09]

So not using the ubermount cheese what would be a realistic mount build provided the dragon mount was a necessity?

I'm very interested in getting a dragon mount as well and I would gladly play a halfing caster to make it work so that I don't have to worry about the stupid damage decreases since halflings use small weapons.

[Gwendol]

I wouldn't worry too much about using small weapons. First off, because of sharing of spells with your mount, any casting of enlarge person will also cause your mount to grow.
Second, damage dice are nearly insignificant compared to all other bonuses to damage, especially as you gain levels.
Thirdly, supermount as detailed earlier (Gorfnab's post) isn't particularly cheesy; it's a build with a purpose.

But, if you want to keep it really simple, go with a strongheart halfling paladin and get a gold wyrmling dragon at level 12.

[Gwendol]

Oh, almost forgot.
Play a Hound Archon hero, they get a juvenile Bronze dragon as special mount! As usual, the racial HD and LA are horrendous, but in the right game this can be a lot of fun.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/archon.htm#houndArchonHero

Note the shapechanging ability of both the paladin and the mount. Note that the archon can assume the shape of a riding dog, and the dragon the shape of its halfling or gnome rider :smallwink: