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View Full Version : The Minor master PLEASEe.a.c.h.



Thugorp
2013-05-06, 03:37 AM
Hay, peeps, the rest of the fluff stuff will come later. The day in the life and all that. It comes down to this, what should the capstone be? Also, it seems to me that there is still one ability missing. One that lets him do something unique with spells finally after all of his Perice study and practice. Or one that lets him tap his greater understanding in order to make a new spell. But I am not sure how to make such an ability. Finally. WHAT ELSE DO YOU THINK OF THIS CLASS? How can I make it better?

Edit: O.k. I listened to to the comments and added, Beginners Exercises, Lesson Of The Diligent Student, Technically Impressive Feat, Surpassing Mastery Of All Things Simple, Continuing Education Pool, and Coping Mechanism. What do peole think of these? Do they fit in with the rest of the class? Would the class work as an actual P.C. Class now?

Any other advice, comments, questions, or concerns? How does the fluff hit everyone? Should I do a day in the life section? Notable figures? Give me your opinions. ... please :-)


Minor Mastore

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs51/i/2009/302/a/2/Wizard_by_Stefana_Tserk.jpg

"Student Midterm Report To Department Head: At first the student seemed promising due to his rare talent at learning new spell, and then casting them later without reference or mnemonic. However, his progress appears to have stagnated. If he does not cast at least one fifth level spell during his next evaluation I will be forced to recommend expulsion to the head master."
-William Ravenloft, Professor of Congeration, St. Cuthbert College Arcanum.

The name minor master is actually a derogatory term bandied about by other wizards, and some sorcerers, as a gibe at the men and women described by this class. "Minor Masters," are wizards who think that it is more important to understand magic then it is to invent memory tricks that let them remember a spell for a few hours before forgetting it again. Due to the deep understanding, "Minor Masters," achieve of their spells once learned they are able to cast them spontaneously like a sorcerer would. However, wizards are a persnickety stubborn lot and, "Minor Masters," are no exception. The truth of the matter is that at a certain levels spells get so complex that memory tricks are necessary, the human mind isn't always capable of understanding the greater mysteries of higher level spells, and rote memorization may be the only way to cast these spells. "Minor Masters," are teased the way they are, not just because they don't cast higher level spells but also because their stubbornness will not allow them to attempt memory tricks; even for the spells that are clearly beyond human understanding. On some rare occasions, the, "Minor Master," attitude pays off allowing the idiosyncratic wizard to truly advance magical understanding in the world; but for the most part it relegates, the "Minor Master," to casting only the most simple spells and their attitude about the hole thing assures they will be teased for it.


Adventures:
"Minor Masters," aren't always adventurers. In fact more often than not they are home bodies, cooped up in their tower poring over their books, trying to understand the secrets of the magiks. As a matter of fact even when they do travel they often spend considerable time in camp or have extended stay periods at the inn so they can study their new tolms.(a lengthy proses for a minor master) However, when they do adventure it is for the same reason that Wizards do.


Characteristics:
"Minor Masters," are universally, stubborn, often persnickety, usually, talkative, but are without fail involved. "Minor Masters," LOVE, ideas, magic, philosophy, alchemy, and the places where they mix. "Minor Masters," are not limited casters for lack of trying, nor are they persnickety from snobbishness. Rather their spell casting limitations comes from their need to understand every single element of what they due before they can remember how to do it. Their persnickety attitude comes not from a dislike of people but because they are simply used to people not understanding them, and they grow weary of have to explain themselves over and over again.


Alignment:
There are no alignment restrictions for a, "Minor Master," though, evil minor masters are often just called, "untalented ass holes." Due to the fact that evil people are often more vane there are fewer evil minor masters than there are either neutral or good. Minor masters often respect rules, they need to in order to understand the Eldridge workings of magic, they also need to respect rules in order to function at an arcane collage or take books reliably out of a library. However, due to the low regard of the wizards commonly called Minor Masters, they often have to cultivate the ability to both sweet talk and lie in order to get what they want or need especially from other members of arcademe. As such a certain amount of responsible rule bending is often necessary. For this reason, "Minor Masters," are more often neutral along the ethical axis than lawful or chaotic.


Religion:
As wizards


Background:
So called, "Minor Masters," are usually young men and rarely young women, who begin training in an arcane school, or start on an apprenticeship with an older wizard or magic scholar. Along the way they realize, or are informed, that their talents don't quite lie with what the school, or the mentor wishes to, or is capable of teaching.


Races: All races have people who are capable of becoming, "Minor Masters," However, Elves are the least likely sort to fall into the trap of minor masterdom.


Other Classes:
Well as should be obvious if all of your teachers, or colleagues are calling you the, "minor master," you are probably not thought of well. Other wizards think you are both stubborn and an idiot. Sorcerers are actually a bit more sympathetic toward you. Since sorcerers don't know how any of their magic works to begin with, they are more willing to hear you out. They still tend to call you a minor master though because you clearly don't have the ability throw magic around like either themselves or your own counterparts; so clearly something most be up right? Bards are pretty much chill with everybody and are usually just happy that there is someone in the party that has a more limited spell selection pool than they do. To everyone else your just like any other wizard... only less useful(or so they think).


Role: "Minor Masters," are exactly what you would think. Mainline casters, from level one on, the "Minor master," can take over the job of any wizard or sorcerer in the game. At early levels there is little difference between the minor master and the Sorcerer except that the minor master has more spells, which he casts more powerfully at a slower rate. At high levels his ability to rapid-fire week spells, and cast slightly less week spells with a slew of meta-magic attached brings his power up to that of a normal caster. And even if he isn't as effective as a normal wizard his ability to charm and lie will make everyone believe that he is.


Adaptation: I am not sure there is any setting this wouldn't fit in would like any help you guys would like to give me. : - )


Bonus Languages: A wizard may substitute Draconic for one of the bonus languages available to the character because of
her race.


GAME RULE INFORMATION

Minor Masters have the following game statistics.


Abilities: Intelligence determines the power of the spells a Minor Mater can cast, and how hard those spells are to resist (see spells, below). A high dexterity score is helpful for a minor master because like wizards they typically wear little or no armor and dexterity provides him with a bonus to Armor Class. A good constitution score gives a Minor Master extra hit points a resource that he is otherwise very low on.


Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d4
Starting Age:As Wizard
Starting Gold: 4d6

Class Skills: A Minor Master's class skills(and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), intimidate (Cha), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha). See Chapter(P.Hb.): Skills for skill descriptions

Skill Points at First Level: (3 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 3 + Int modifier
"Minor Master"


Level Base attack bonus Fort save Ref save Will save Special01st2nd3ed4th5th6th7th8th9th
1 +0 +2 +0 +2 Summon Familiar, Spell Book, Attention to detail, Gifts of understanding +1, Beginners Exercises80--------
2 +1 +3 +0 +3 Bonus Feat100--------
3 +1 +3 +1 +3 Practiced Caster1130-------
4 +2 +4 +1 +4 Bonus Feat1240-------
5 +2 +4 +1 +4 Practiced Caster, Gifts of Understanding +2, Lesson of the diligent student1280-------
6 +3 +5 +2 +5 Closer Bond1290-------
7 +3 +5 +2 +5 Bonus Feat]121130------
8 +4 +6 +2 +6 Practiced Caster121140------
9 +4 +6 +3 +6 121280------
10 +5 +7 +3 +7 Gifts of understanding +3, Bonus Feat, Technically impressive display121290------
11 +5 +7 +3 +7 Practied Caster1212110------
12 +6/+1 +8 +4 +8 1212113------
13 +6/+1 +8 +4 +8 Bonus Feat121212810----
14 +7/+2 +9 +4 +9 Practiced Caster1212129110---
15 +7/+2 +9 +5 +9 Gifts of Understanding, Surpassing Mastery Of All That Is Simple13131311210---
16 +8/+3 +10 +5 +10 Bonus Feat, continuing education pool13131313210---
17 +8/+3 +10 +5 +10 Practiced Caster131313132210--
18 +9/+4 +11 +6 +11 1313131322110-
19 +9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Bonus Feat13131313222110
20 +10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Gifts of Understanding, Practiced Caster, Coping Mechanism, Trying It Out Once13131313222111


Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Minor Master.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Minor Master's are proficient with all Simple Weapons. They are not proficient with
any armor or shields.

Spells: A Minor Master casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below). To learn or cast a spell, a Minor Master must have an Intellegence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level and the spell must be recorded in the Minor Master's spellbook. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Minor Master’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Mainor Master’s Intelligence modifier. Like other spellcasters, a Minor Master can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Minor Master. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Inteligence score. Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a Minor Mster need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he’ll cast.


Spellbook: A Minor Master must study her spellbook each day for three hours after resting. A Minor Master will loose one spell book slot, starting from her highest level spellbook slot each day she does not study her spellbook. The Minor Master can, "forget," spells in this way, however, a Minor Master will always retain at least one spellbook slot of each level, and will never lose any 0 level spellbook slots. If the Minor Master runs out of Spellbook slots to lose she will lose the, "Gift Of Understanding," ability for all non-zero level spells, on the next day she does not study her spellbook. If the Minor Master has lost spellbook slots as described above, she may regain them by studying her spellbook. For every consecutive peiriod of six hours the Minor Master spends studieing her spellbook she will gain one spellbook slot up to her maximum number of spellbook slots for her level. The Minor Master may never learn new spells in this way, if a Minor Master has, "forgoten," spells due to lack of study she always regains those particular spells first when she regains spellbook slots. A Minor Master begins play with a spellbook containing six 0-level sorcerer/wizard spells of your choice. At each new Minor Master level, she gains new Spellbook slots as described on the table, "Spellbook Slosts," At any time, a Minor Master can fill those Spellbook Slost by adding spells to her Spellbook as a wizard does. The minor master takes twice as long to add spells to her spellbook than a wizard does. Once the minor master has added a spell to her spellbook she is considered to, "know," it and she may cast it as described under, "Spells."


]Spellbook Slots
Level | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3
1st | 6 | - | - | - |
2nd | 7 | - | - | - |
3th | 8 | - | - | - |
4th | 9 | 1 | - | - |
5th | 10 | 2 | - | - |
6th | 11 | 3 | - | -|
7th | 12 | 5 | - | - |
8th | 13 | 5 | 1 | - |
9th |13 | 7 | 2 | - |
10th |14 | 7 | 3 | - |
11th | 14 | 9 | 5 | - |
12th | 14 | 9 | 5 | 1 |
13th | 14 | 9 | 7 | 2 |
14th | 14 | 9 | 7 | 3 |
15th | 14 | 9 | 8 | 5 |
16th |15 | 9 | 8 | 5 |
17th | 15 | 10 | 8 | 6 |
18th | 15 | 10 | 8 | 7 |
19th | 15 | 11 | 9 | 8 |
20th | 16 | 12 | 9 | 8 |
[/table][/table]


Attention to detail: Due to what many call perfectionism and Minor Masters call attention to detail, when it comes to verbal and somatic spell components all Minor Maser spells take at least 1 full round action for the Minor Master to cast. If a spell takes longer than a full round action to cast according to it's spell description then it is cast as normal however, no spell may be cast in less than a full round action, except by way of a metamagic feat.

Gifts Of Understanding, The Minor Master's attention to detail is not without reason or benefit. The precise nature of the Minor Master's spell casting allows him to cast spells at +1 caster level / 5 character levels.

Summon Familiar: A Minor Master can obtain a familiar (see below). Doing so takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. A familiar is a magical beast that resembles a small animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant. The Minor Master chooses the kind of familiar he gets. As the Minor Master advances in level, his familiar also increases in power.If the familiar dies or is dismissed by the Minor Master, the Minor Master must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude saving throw. Failure means he loses 200 experience points per Minor Master level; success reduces the loss to one-half that amount. However, a wizard’s experience point total can never go below 0 as the result of a familiar’s demise or dismissal. A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs. A character with more than one class that grants a familiar may have only one familiar at a time.

Beginners Exercises: One of the first things an eventual, "Minor Master," will do is set up a comprehensive study regimen. The benefits of this is of coarse being good at studying magic, and at using magical aids. Many young wizards wish study actually helped them be better at magic, rather than just better at studying magic, but se, la, vie. At first level, "Minor Masters," gain all of the benefits of the Magical Aptitude Feat.

Bonus Feat: At level 2, and every three levels there after (4th., 7th., 10th., 13th., and so on.) Minor Masters, gain
a bonus feat, The bonus feat must be either an item creation feat, a meta-magic feat, or be off of the following list: Augment Summoning, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Improved Familiar, any feat from The Complete Arcane.

Practiced Caster: By the time a Minor Master reaches 3ed. level, most of them have become so in tune with the processes of their precise spell casting that they begin to become second nature to them. At third level the Minor Master gains the ability to cast zero level spells as normal, with the same casting time listed in their spell descriptions.

At fifth level The minor master becomes so used to casting zero level spells that he gains the ability to cast any zero level spell with a casting time of, "1 standard action," or less as a swift action.

At eighth level the Minor Master gains the ability to cast 1st. level spells as normal, with the same casting time listed in their spell descriptions.

At eleventh level the Minor Master has practiced enough to cast 1st. level spells with a casting time of," 1 standard action," or less as swift actions.

At fourteenth level the Minor Master has spent enough time in the field practicing his rigorous casting methods that he is finally able to cast 2nd. level spells as normal with the same casting speed listed in the spell descriptions.

At seventeenth level the Minor Master has gained such understanding of even the minor complex second level spells that he can now cast them extremely quickly. At level seventeen a Minor Master can cast second level spells with casting times of, "1 standard action," or less as swift actions.

At twentieth level the Minor Master has finally attained enough skill and practice at casting spells that he can finally cast third level spells normally, with the same casting times listed in their spell descriptions.

"Practiced Caster," superseads Attention to detail, but does not superseed the effects of, "Gifts of Understanding."

Lessons Of The Diligent Student: Something that many eventual, "Minor Masters," find early that oft speed them down the path of truly extraordinary anonymity, is the discovery that if a wizard properly understands the eldritch forces of arcane magic, and how exactly the complex rituals his masters teach him, interact with those forces; a person with sufficient force of will can direct the eldritch forces naked, without need to channel them with or focus them through material elements and representations of power, and can instead use his imagination and force of will in place of such material spell components. At fifth level, "Minor Masters," gain all the benefits of the Eschew Material Components feat.

Closer Bond: By the time sixth level comes around it is often the case that the burgeoning, "Minor Master's," pears begin to thing that perhaps their friend or colleague is falling a bit behind or maybe doesn't have what it takes to keep up. In academic circles and in arcane boarding schools alike this can lead to shunning. The fact that it isn't true and that the, "Minor Master," is in fact making leaps and bounds doesn't help when those leaps and bounds are in a holy different direction from the rest of everyone. This often leads to a situation where the, "Minor Master's," only close friend is his own familiar who often becomes, a friend, confidant, and study partner during these hard times. Due to the close bond that usually forms between a Minor Master and her familiar the Minor Master's familiar gets 3/4ths as much H.P. as its master instead of 1/2 h.p.

Technically impressive display: At tenth level a, "Minor Master," has progressed far enough down his line of study that he can do some tricks that any spell caster MUST admit are impressive, even if they are mostly useless. At Tenth level and there after all Metamagic feats applied to spells the, "Minor Master," gained form Minor Master class levels increase the spell level by one level less than the feat normally would(to a minimum increase of one spell level, unless the feat would normally not impose a spell level increase).

Surpassing Mastery Of All That Is Simple: By the time most Wizards are learning to control the weather, delay the explosion of their fireballs, and even cast somewhat limited wishing spells, the, "Minor Masters," are well... not. On the other hand they have without doubt become masters when it comes to the basic dynamics of magic itself. Once a, "Minor Master reaches 15th level. he gains the ability to sacrifice an unspent spell slot to cast a number of cantrips equal to twice that slot's level all at once; spell effects stack for this purpose. The spells must already be recorded in the Minor Master's spellbook, The Minor Master can use this ability a number of times per-day equal to half his level. Using this ability always takes a standard action.

Continuing Education Pool(su.): At this stage, "Minor Masters," have completed their initial goal of attaining mastery of the fundamentals and begin to move on. They begin the next stage in their plan to understand all magic, by gaining true understanding of new spells. Starting at 16th level the, "Minor Master," gains the ability to cast certain spells as spell-like abilities. Each level the, "Minor Master," may add one new spell to her, "Continuing Education Pool;" these spells must be between levels 0 and 6(0-6 level spells) and must be on the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. The, "Minor Master," may use these spell-like abilities collectively a number of times per day equal to her intelligence modifier. For example a, "Minor Master," with of 18th level with an intelligence score of 16(+3int.) could gain the use of Lesser Invulnerability, Cloud Kill and Repulsion. That, "Minor Master," could either use each spell once; Cloud Kill twice and Repulsion once; repulsion once and Lesser Invulnerability twice; Cloud Kill three times; or any other combination of the three spells that equals three collective uses of the spell like abilities in a day. These spell-like abilities function as though they were spells being cast by a caster of the, "Minor Master's," level in Minor Master. A, "Minor Master," can not gain a spell like ability threw this ability if the spell it would be based on has an xp. cost, or a material component that costs more than 1g.p. However he can gain a spell like ability based on a spell that has a costly focus so long as the, "Minor Master," actually has said focus.

Coping mechanism: It has now been a short wile since you attained mastery of all the fundamentals of magic, and although that is a rare feat it was supposed to be just a first initial goal. All those years back when you set up your study regimen you thought you would master the fundamentals then move on and truly learn all those spells that your colleagues just throw around blithely. But you haven't. You have made progress toward that goal but you have certainly not been making the leaps and bounds you were expecting; which is unfortunate because the life of a high level spell caster is dangerous, even your life is dangerous. In order to survive you have developed a little coping mechanism. Starting at 20th. level You may sacrifice a spell slot to improve a cantrip or first level spell. first you select a 0 or 1st level spell and then select a spell slot to sacrifice, the selected spell is then treated as though it were a spell of the sacrificed spell slot's level, and any variable effects are multiplied by twice the spell slot's level(ex. if you chose a cantripe that dealt a 1d3 damage and sacrificed a 3ed. level spell slot, the cantripe would now deal 6d3 damage).

Trying It Out Once: At some point everyone begins to wonder if maybe they were wrong, even the most optimistic of minor masters eventually want to see what all the fuss is about, when it comes to prepared spell casting and of coarse nothing but the best will do. At twentieth level the Minor Master gains the ability to cast one ninth level spell per-day as a spell like ability. The minor master may pick a new spell each day. The spell must be chosen at the same time the Minor Master studies his spell book each day and can not be changed there after, until the next day. The spell must be a Sorcerer/Wizard spell. The Minor Master losses this ability if he does not study his spell book one day, but gains the ability again after six hours of strait study.

Familiars

A familiar is a normal animal that gains new powers and becomes a magical beast when summoned to service by a sorcerer or wizard. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but it is treated as a magical beast instead of an animal for the purpose of any effect that depends on its type. Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar. An animal companion cannot also function as a familiar.

A familiar also grants special abilities to its master (a sorcerer or wizard), as given on the table below. These special abilities apply only when the master and familiar are within 1 mile of each other.

Levels of different classes that are entitled to familiars stack for the purpose of determining any familiar abilities that depend on the master’s level.

{table=head]Familiars and granted abilities
{table=head]Familiar | ability
Bat | Master gains a +3 bonus on Listen checks |
Cat | Master gains a +3 bonus on Move Silently checks|
Hawk | Master gains a +3 bonus on Spot checks in bright light |
Lizard | Master gains a +3 bonus on Climb checks|
Owl | Master gains a +3 bonus on Spot checks in shadows |
Rat | Master gains a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves|
Raven | Master gains a +3 bonus on Appraise checks|
Snake | Master gains a +3 bonus on Bluff checks|
Toad |Master gains +3 hit points|
Weasel |Master gains a +2 bonus on Reflex saves|
House Centipede | master gains a +3 bonus on hide checks.|
Fox | Master gains a +2 bonus on Reflex saves|
Goat | Master gains a +3 bonus on Survival checks|
Monkey | Master gains a +2 bonus on Will saves|
King Crab | Master gains a +2 bonus on grapple checks|
Otter |Master gains a +3 bonus on Swim checks|
Pig | Master gains a +3 bonus on Diplomacy checks|
Raccoon | Master gains a +3 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks|
Scorpion, greensting | Master gains a +4 bonus on Initiative checks |
Spider, scarlet | Master gains a +3 bonus on Climb checks|
Octopus, blue-ringed | Master gains a +3 bonus on Swim checks |
flying Squirrel | Master gains a +3 bonus on Fly checks|
Thrush | Master gains a +3 bonus on Diplomacy checks|
Parrot | Master gains a +3 bonus on Appraise checks|
Turtle | Master gains a +1 natural armor bonus to AC|
Snapping Turtle | Master gains a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves|
Armadillo | Master gains a +1 natural armor bonus to AC|
Dodo | Master gains a +4 bonus on Initiative checks|
Dwarf caiman |Master gains a +3 bonus on Stealth checks|
Giant Isopod |Master gains a +1 natural armor bonus to AC|
Marine Iguana | Master gains a +3 bonus on Swim checks|
Mongoose | Master gains a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves|
Osprey | Master gains a +3 bonus on Survival checks|
Platypus | Master gains a +3 bonus on Swim checks|
Sea krait | Master gains a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves|
Seal |Master gains a +3 bonus on Swim checks|
Skunk | Master gains a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves|
Snail kite | Master gains a +3 bonus on Fly checks|
Squirrle | Master gains a +3 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks|
Snail | Master gains a +2 Natural Armor bonus|
Toucan | Master gains a +3 bonus on Diplomacy checks|
[/table][/table]

Familiar Basics: Use the basic statistics for a creature of the familiar’s kind, but make the following changes:

Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master’s character level or the familiar’s normal HD total, whichever is higher.

Hit Points: The familiar has one-half the master’s total hit points (not including temporary hit points), rounded down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice.

Attacks: Use the master’s base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes. Use the familiar’s Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to get the familiar’s melee attack bonus with natural weapons.

Damage equals that of a normal creature of the familiar’s kind.

Saving Throws: For each saving throw, use either the familiar’s base save bonus (Fortitude +2, Reflex +2, Will +0) or the master’s (as calculated from all his classes), whichever is better. The familiar uses its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn’t share any of the other bonuses that the master might have on saves.

Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master’s skill ranks, whichever are better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar’s total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar’s ability to use.

Familiar Ability Descriptions: All familiars have special abilities (or impart abilities to their masters) depending on the master’s combined level in classes that grant familiars, as shown on the table below. The abilities given on the table are cumulative.


{table=head]Familiars
{table=head]Master Class Level | Natural Armor Adj. | Int. | Special
1st-2nd | +1 | 6 | Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link
3ed-4th | +2 | 7 | Deliver Touch Spells
5th-6th | +3 | 8 | Speak with Master
7th-8th | +4 | 9 | Speak with Animals of Its Kind
9th-10th | +5 | 10 |
11th-12th | +6 | 11 | Spell Resistance
13th-14th | +7 | 12 | Scry on Familiar
15th-16th | +8 | 13 |
17th-18th |+9 | 14 |
19th-20th |+10 | 15 |
[/table][/table]

Natural Armor Adj.: The number noted here is an improvement to the familiar’s existing natural armor bonus.

Int: The familiar’s Intelligence score.

Alertness (Ex): While a familiar is within arm’s reach, the master gains the Alertness feat.

Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a familiar takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage even if the saving throw fails.

Share Spells: At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit.

If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.

A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast).

Empathic Link (Su): The master has an empathic link with his familiar out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The master cannot see through the familiar’s eyes, but they can communicate empathically. Because of the limited nature of the link, only general emotional content can be communicated.

Because of this empathic link, the master has the same connection to an item or place that his familiar does.

Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master could. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.

Speak with Master (Ex): If the master is 5th level or higher, a familiar and the master can communicate verbally as if they were using a common language. Other creatures do not understand the communication without magical help.

Speak with Animals of Its Kind (Ex): If the master is 7th level or higher, a familiar can communicate with animals of approximately the same kind as itself (including dire varieties): bats with bats, rats with rodents, cats with felines, hawks and owls and ravens with birds, lizards and snakes with reptiles, toads with amphibians, weasels with similar creatures (weasels, minks, polecats, ermines, skunks, wolverines, and badgers). Such communication is limited by the intelligence of the conversing creatures.

Spell Resistance (Ex): If the master is 11th level or higher, a familiar gains spell resistance equal to the master’s level + 5. To affect the familiar with a spell, another spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the familiar’s spell resistance.

Scry on Familiar (Sp): If the master is 13th level or higher, he may scry on his familiar (as if casting the scrying spell) once per day.

The Mentalist
2013-05-06, 04:43 AM
*drops monocle* By Jove! It's brilliant! Needs some free metamagic to minor spells I think! (other than the quicken you already added)


Perhaps as a "make a new spell" ability "by spending a week (month?) in study the Minor Master may alter a spell of 0-3rd level in one of the following ways and treat it as a new spell that he may teach to others and scribe on scrolls."

+1 to Die size
+2 to a static numeric effect
Double Duration
+1 range category
-1 action to cast time
+to area (or grant it an area)
(add other effects of your choosing these are just examples)

He may modify a source spell up to Int Mod times before he can no further progress in that spell.

LordErebus12
2013-05-06, 05:40 AM
got an error on the spell prepared/spell per day table, mid way down.

you lose a spell level for one level, lol.

The Mentalist
2013-05-06, 05:44 AM
Lvl 12, 3rd lvl spells to be specific, just because I know how annoying they can be to scan.

Thugorp
2013-05-06, 06:32 PM
Thank you Mentalist. I am glad you like it. I was afraid that no one would. I was afraid people would think it was too weak. If it is by the way that is something else I would like help with. MMM... I was sort of hopeing the free meta magic would come from the bonus feats, but your ability does sound sound. I will think on that. Any Ideas for a capstone?

LordErbus. Thank you and fixed. :-)

The Mentalist
2013-05-06, 08:29 PM
No, I was thinking free to apply metamagic. (specific metamagics, not just a flat level reduction) or maybe a free Arcane Thesis every level or every other level. I'm always very fond of giving people specializing in low magic like this (I've made three classes to this effect, in various degrees of broken), or off-list spells, Free Spell Mastery would be a nice touch too.

I would honestly make the capstone related to whatever "make a new spell" mechanic you decide to add as I think that will be the unique point of the class.

Other capstone options are being able to cast 0-3rd level spells off of any list.

Gaining the ability to use a certain number of spells at will from his practice with them (if you go with the Arcane Thesis option above picking those spells would be perfect for it).

All in all, even as is it makes a very solid little tier 3 support caster.

Edit: Maybe give him a specialization mechanic too (as he seems to be Wizard Lite) though of course ramp up number of spell slots he gets for his focus. Maybe even a Focuses Specialist and a Microspecialist (he only has 1 or 2 schools but he can cast basically forever, It'd make a good NPC variant)


Just tossing out some ideas, take what you like, leave the rest. I may write variants of this class or ACFs for whatever you don't choose to take if you don't object.

Thugorp
2013-05-06, 08:40 PM
This all sounds very appealing, but what is an, Arcane Thesis?

The Mentalist
2013-05-06, 08:53 PM
Arcane Thesis is from PhB 2 and grants +2CL to a single spell and reduces the cost of all metamagic you attach to it by 1 level. It's broken if you abuse it but you don't get high enough slots to really break it.

Thugorp
2013-05-10, 02:26 AM
O.k. I listened to to the comments and added, Beginners Exercises, Lesson Of The Diligent Student, Technically Impressive Feat, Surpassing Mastery Of All Things Simple, Continuing Education Pool, and Coping Mechanism. What do peole think of these? Do they fit in with the rest of the class? Would the class work as an actual P.C. Class now?

Any other advice, comments, questions, or concerns? How does the fluff hit everyone? Should I do a day in the life section? Notable figures? Give me your opinions. ... please :-)

The Mentalist
2013-05-10, 02:37 AM
In Coping mechanism


and any venerable effects are

Should be variable effects.

I like it.

Be aware for SLAs that Permanency is a 6th level spell and that SLA's will remove the XP component for making a spell permanent, take that as you will. Forcecage is as well.

Thugorp
2013-05-10, 04:07 AM
What do you think I should do about it?

The Mentalist
2013-05-10, 04:16 AM
Take a page out of Energy Transformation Field and make it a "no xp or costly components" clause. If you want a flavor reason it could be "as such things are too expensive to experiment with at the lengths needed for that level of mastery"

Thugorp
2013-05-10, 02:29 PM
Change done.

Spelling fixed.

What do people think about the continuing education ability as a hole? Does it dilute the low level spell casting element?

HOW IS THE FLUFF?

Would love help.

Thugorp
2013-05-11, 08:01 PM
Added flavor to the closer bond ability. :-)

Debihuman
2013-05-12, 09:40 AM
When you get your bonus feats is incorrectly stated. At first you state that you gain them at 2nd level and every 3 levels thereafter, but really you gain one at 2nd level, one at 4th level, and then one every 3rd level in your chart and in your text. You should fix that.

It needs a lot of editing and and proofreading. I took some liberties here of making it more concise in some place but could do more.


The name “minor master” is actually a derogatory term bandied about by other wizards, and some sorcerers, as a gibe at the men and women described by this class. Minor masters are able to cast spells spontaneously as a sorcerer would but have a very slow spell progression.

Adventures: Minor masters are rarely adventurers. More often than not, they are homebodies cooped up in towers, pouring over their books, and trying to understand the secrets of the magic. When they travel, they often spend considerable time in camp or have extended stay periods at the inns so they can study their tomes (a lengthy process for a minor master). However, when they adventure it is for the same reason that wizards do.

Characteristics: Minor masters are universally stubborn, often persnickety and talkative, but are without fail, involved in their magical research. They positively love ideas, magic, philosophy, alchemy, and the places where they mix. Minor masters are not limited casters for lack of trying; nor are they persnickety from snobbishness. Rather their spell casting limitations comes from their need to understand every single element of what they do before they can remember how to do it. Their persnickety attitude comes not from a dislike of people but because they are simply used to people not understanding them; and they grow weary of have to explain themselves over and over again.

Alignment: There are no alignment restrictions for a minor master, though, evil minor masters are often just called, "untalented hacks." There are fewer evil minor masters than there are either neutral or good ones (usually for reasons of vanity more than anything else). Minor masters usually respect rules; they need to, in order to understand the eldritch workings of magic. They also need to respect rules in order to function at an arcane collage or take books reliably out of a library. However, due to their low regard in most communities, they often cultivate the ability to both sweet talk and lie in order to get what they want or need, especially from other members of academe. For these reasons, minor masters are more often neutral along the ethical axis than lawful or chaotic.

Religion: As wizards.

Background: Minor masters are usually young men and rarely young women, who begin training in an arcane school, or start on an apprenticeship with an older wizard or magic scholar, but part ways due to their slower magical advancement.

Races: All races have people who are capable of becoming minor masters. However, elves are the least likely sort to fall into this particular path.

Other Classes: Other spellcasting classes snub their noses at the slow advancement of the minor master and tend to disregard them.

Role: A minor master can take the job of any wizard or sorcerer in the game.

Adaptation: A minor master can fit into almost any setting.

Bonus Languages: A wizard may substitute Draconic for one of the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.

Debby

Thugorp
2013-05-12, 11:34 AM
So, if there are spelling errors, I would love to know them. Please point them out using bold or some such. This really would be a big help as I am quite bad at spelling, and my, "q," key does not work.

As for cutting down on the flavor text, that I am not interested in. D&D 3.5 is a role playing game, and I play it because I like to role play. I really don't have an interest in playing classes that are light on the Fluff. Which is why I don't do much playing out of the, P.H.B., and why my classes have a lot of fluff to them. Also, I think some of the humor may have past you by. That said if there is anything you think I may have missed in my fluff, an angle I may have missed a trope over or under utilized, simply a word choice you don't like. PLEASE I would love to hear a critique of my writing from that point of view.

All that said, really and truly thank you for your time and attention. :-)

Thugorp
2013-05-15, 02:33 AM
Bump, for one final last ditch effort to get a little more advice on this. Otherwise I will leave it for a wile.


No, I was thinking free to apply metamagic. (specific metamagics, not just a flat level reduction) or maybe a free Arcane Thesis every level or every other level. I'm always very fond of giving people specializing in low magic like this (I've made three classes to this effect, in various degrees of broken), or off-list spells, Free Spell Mastery would be a nice touch too.

I would honestly make the capstone related to whatever "make a new spell" mechanic you decide to add as I think that will be the unique point of the class.

Other capstone options are being able to cast 0-3rd level spells off of any list.

Gaining the ability to use a certain number of spells at will from his practice with them (if you go with the Arcane Thesis option above picking those spells would be perfect for it).

All in all, even as is it makes a very solid little tier 3 support caster.

Edit: Maybe give him a specialization mechanic too (as he seems to be Wizard Lite) though of course ramp up number of spell slots he gets for his focus. Maybe even a Focuses Specialist and a Microspecialist (he only has 1 or 2 schools but he can cast basically forever, It'd make a good NPC variant)


Just tossing out some ideas, take what you like, leave the rest. I may write variants of this class or ACFs for whatever you don't choose to take if you don't object.

Would love to hear about variations, also what is an A.C.F.?

The Mentalist
2013-05-15, 02:50 AM
Alternate Class Feature... also, I'll be more than happy to give you more advice and feedback on this I've just been caught up in an idea (I have some issues that make me kind of obsessive when I get interested in something so I haven't been doing anything really serious in terms of critique while I've been working on this)

The way I did my best Minor magician class was to give it a few paths that you could pick between, one that made it an item crafter, one that made it a commander/mass buffer, one that made it a self-buffer/power acquirer, one that learned slowly to cast all low level spells, one that restricted schools even further but gained A LOT of spells, and another one that was straight caster with some bonuses to low level spells (this one was kind of like FreakyCheeseMan's Spell Master but with low level spells instead of 1 spell per level).

I've been poking around my old workbooks to find it but I may just recreate it since there's been some interest in seeing it.

Debihuman
2013-05-15, 05:28 PM
So, if there are spelling errors, I would love to know them. Please point them out using bold or some such. This really would be a big help as I am quite bad at spelling, and my, "q," key does not work.

You don't need to put minor master in quotes after the first time you do so. and you have a tendency to put commas where you don't need them and to leave them out when they are needed. I fixed that. There were so many errors that it was easier to rewrite it than to point them all out.


As for cutting down on the flavor text, that I am not interested in. Repeating yourself is not fluff. I merely tightened your writing and removed the profanity.


Also, I think some of the humor may have passed you by. Sadly, you aren't as funny as you think you are or it is lost in a sea of bad grammar and misspellings. You beat a dead horse with how other casters taunt minor masters. We got it the first time. Repeating it over and over doesn't make it funny, it makes it repetitive. Capiche?

Debby

Hanuman
2013-05-15, 05:57 PM
For 3.5 this may be appealing, but a pathfinder caster will always have unlimited usages of cantrips or orisons but perhaps not the same utility as being able to learn and cast every level 0 spell in the SpC+SRD.
While allowing a huge number of 0 level spells isn't really a problem, it's the metamagic abuse of the enhancement of those spells which runs into balance issues, only because you essentially have unlimited free Quickened metamagic on 0th level spells, so you stick Fell onto that and you have Quickened Fell Sonic Snap (0th level spell, 2nd level spellslot, 6th level spellslot value), you can also just double it (or because of the wording Swift-Standard you could argue move as well) so that's 2-3 negative levels plus 2-3 deafen saves per round with no failure rate.
The only other issue I see is that the class is a giant wall of text, and while it adds a lot of flavor it is incredibly difficult to read. Perhaps put each flavor paragraph separated from the concise effect?

Thugorp
2013-05-16, 04:53 AM
Hmmm... Hanuman, I have to admit I my intent in making the class was to make a caster that only had access to extremely weak spells, but that could still hold it's own next to a caster with access to well, normal full casting, including 9th. level spells. Are you saying that you think this class is more powerful than that? IF SO PLEASE TELL ME that is a problem that I will need to address as I will have OVER shot my goal. But just to clarify my intent was that through the use of rapid-fire spells and use of meta-magic they could out maneuver normal casters as to in such a way as to make up for their lack of strong spells. Have I over corrected? if so, what would you suggest?

Debi-human, thank you again. I will look into the problem with the commas, though the quotes are actually Ironic-quotation marks added because the term Minor Master is actually a laughable but popular misnomer.

Debihuman
2013-05-16, 08:08 AM
the quotes are actually Ironic-quotation marks added because the term Minor Master is actually a laughable but popular misnomer.

Yes, that was clear the first time. The problem is that you kept repeating it unnecessarily and messed up the commas while doing so. However, repeating it at every turn while misusing the comma was no more ironic than the first time and grammatically wrong and a tad annoying as well. Do not assume your reader to be an idiot. You do not have to beat us about the head with quotation marks to get the point across.

The actual problem is balance. At low levels, the minor master is a much better opponent. Casting 13 0-level spells is more powerful than being able to cast 4. Granted they're only 0-level to 3rd level spells, but this is a rather hefty bonus at earlier levels even if it is offset by the fact that they are slow casters.

Pathfinder basically fixed the problem with 0-level spells by making them unlimited, while 3.5 kept the 4 per level as they were originally written by E. Gary Gygax in 1982, "Cantrips: Minor Magics for Would-Be Wizards." If you have house-ruled that cantrips are unlimited, then this class is even less attractive.

While you gain plenty of low level spells (making them deadly against low level and perhaps some mid level monsters), the loss of higher level spells really makes them much less effective against high level monsters especially those with any damage reduction/magic. I'm not convinced the loss of the high level spells is worth it at high level. For low- to mid-level campaigns this class works much better than the standard wizard class. It is a class that starts out with lots and bells and whistles but then peters out.

Debby

Hanuman
2013-05-16, 02:14 PM
Hmmm... Hanuman, I have to admit I my intent in making the class was to make a caster that only had access to extremely weak spells, but that could still hold it's own next to a caster with access to well, normal full casting, including 9th. level spells. Are you saying that you think this class is more powerful than that? IF SO PLEASE TELL ME that is a problem that I will need to address as I will have OVER shot my goal. But just to clarify my intent was that through the use of rapid-fire spells and use of meta-magic they could out maneuver normal casters as to in such a way as to make up for their lack of strong spells. Have I over corrected? if so, what would you suggest
I don't see much of a use of going 15 levels in this class when you can just splash 5 and duck out for normal advancement, a lot of this class is based around improving the spells ability to penetrate saves and SR where as most of it's power is applied through draining levels with no saves.

Are you trying to make this class t1 or t2? Because that's basically what you just said.

Thugorp
2013-05-16, 02:59 PM
Yes, that was clear the first time. The problem is that you kept repeating it unnecessarily and messed up the commas while doing so. However, repeating it at every turn while misusing the comma was no more ironic than the first time and grammatically wrong and a tad annoying as well. Do not assume your reader to be an idiot. You do not have to beat us about the head with quotation marks to get the point across.

The actual problem is balance. At low levels, the minor master is a much better opponent. Casting 13 0-level spells is more powerful than being able to cast 4. Granted they're only 0-level to 3rd level spells, but this is a rather hefty bonus at earlier levels even if it is offset by the fact that they are slow casters.

Pathfinder basically fixed the problem with 0-level spells by making them unlimited, while 3.5 kept the 4 per level as they were originally written by E. Gary Gygax in 1982, "Cantrips: Minor Magics for Would-Be Wizards." If you have house-ruled that cantrips are unlimited, then this class is even less attractive.

While you gain plenty of low level spells (making them deadly against low level and perhaps some mid level monsters), the loss of higher level spells really makes them much less effective against high level monsters especially those with any damage reduction/magic. I'm not convinced the loss of the high level spells is worth it at high level. For low- to mid-level campaigns this class works much better than the standard wizard class. It is a class that starts out with lots and bells and whistles but then peters out.

Debby

hmmm... I tried to mitigate this petering of which you speak by adding the, Surpassing Mastery Of All That Is Simple, Continuing Education Pool, and the coping mechanism pool, abilities. However, if it is still a problem I would like to hear suggestions please. :-) As for the cantripes unlimited thing, I did consider that, but it seemed like it would over balance the class, so I stuck with 3.x rules. This class is there for a 3.5class. That said if you think unlimited cantripes wouldn't over power the Minor Master then I would consider it. Tell me what you think. :-)


Hanuman, I am not sure what you are talking about... I don't think I added any abilities that add to spell penetration, S.R. checks or especially that grant level draining effects, especially not within the first five levels. could you please clarify what you are saying for me, I think I have a lot of trouble understanding you.

I think I am aiming for somewhere in the tier 2 or 3 range.

As always thank you both for your time and attention. :-)

Debihuman
2013-05-16, 03:28 PM
No matter how you slice and dice it, a wizard with four 9th level spells will out gun the minor master. Not even unlimited cantrips can best that.

Debby

Hanuman
2013-05-16, 11:17 PM
hmmm... I tried to mitigate this petering of which you speak by adding the, Surpassing Mastery Of All That Is Simple, Continuing Education Pool, and the coping mechanism pool, abilities. However, if it is still a problem I would like to hear suggestions please. :-) As for the cantripes unlimited thing, I did consider that, but it seemed like it would over balance the class, so I stuck with 3.x rules. This class is there for a 3.5class. That said if you think unlimited cantripes wouldn't over power the Minor Master then I would consider it. Tell me what you think. :-)


Hanuman, I am not sure what you are talking about... I don't think I added any abilities that add to spell penetration, S.R. checks or especially that grant level draining effects, especially not within the first five levels. could you please clarify what you are saying for me, I think I have a lot of trouble understanding you.

I think I am aiming for somewhere in the tier 2 or 3 range.

As always thank you both for your time and attention. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bd5YUEOwlE

You are never going to make this better than T3.

K, first start with disabling fell metamagic, then expand on the pathfinder cantrips and choose whether you want to make it E6, if there's a reason NOT to make it E6 then expand. After that you should be able to easily develop the class' early levels, after that I'll have to see.

Thugorp
2013-05-17, 12:35 PM
What is E6?

Also, I didn't give it an ability called fell magic or disabling fell meagic, could you please explain your terms.

finally how do you mean expand the classes early levels, please give a suggestion. Most of this classes abilities start in the first 8 or 10 levels. What would you like to see added?

Zaydos
2013-05-17, 03:28 PM
Question: With Surpassing Mastery of All Things Simple and Coping Mechanism can the cantrips involved have Metamagic effects applied to them as long as they remain Lv 0?

On the question of this standing up to a 17+ level caster... it can't match their versatility level and it's best hope is making itself into a Cindy style blaster at which point... well a Cindy style blaster can already do enough to kill anything in the game in 1 round and it lacks the ability to use Foresight, Time Stop, and Shapechange, or Cindy's other security precautions. Normally I'd say it's not fair to compare things to Cindy but that's the style this would be going for with its emphasis on Metamagic-ing effects and how it would be trying to match 9th level spells (metamagic reducers on low level spells to create doom spells).

Edit: That's not to say I don't like the class, I do, but just to give a statement on the likelihood of standing up to 9th level spells.

On that note: Fell magic is referencing a metamagic feat Fell Drain from Librismortis, in short it adds 2 to the spell level but makes it inflict energy drain to things it damages.

Hanuman
2013-05-17, 03:51 PM
What is E6?

Also, I didn't give it an ability called fell magic or disabling fell meagic, could you please explain your terms.

finally how do you mean expand the classes early levels, please give a suggestion. Most of this classes abilities start in the first 8 or 10 levels. What would you like to see added?

1) Google
2) Google
3) See: E6

Thugorp
2013-05-18, 01:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bd5YUEOwlE

I very much liked this thank you. :-)


Question: With Surpassing Mastery of All Things Simple and Coping Mechanism can the cantrips involved have Metamagic effects applied to them as long as they remain Lv 0?

On the question of this standing up to a 17+ level caster... it can't match their versatility level and it's best hope is making itself into a Cindy style blaster at which point... well a Cindy style blaster can already do enough to kill anything in the game in 1 round and it lacks the ability to use Foresight, Time Stop, and Shapechange, or Cindy's other security precautions. Normally I'd say it's not fair to compare things to Cindy but that's the style this would be going for with its emphasis on Metamagic-ing effects and how it would be trying to match 9th level spells (metamagic reducers on low level spells to create doom spells).

Edit: That's not to say I don't like the class, I do, but just to give a statement on the likelihood of standing up to 9th level spells.

On that note: Fell magic is referencing a metamagic feat Fell Drain from Librismortis, in short it adds 2 to the spell level but makes it inflict energy drain to things it damages.

Yes you absolutely could use meta-magic, though I would love your opinion on whether you think that the meta magic should have to be quickened to be used with surpassing mastery of all that is simple.


1) Google
2) Google
3) See: E6

o.k. E6 is aparantly a non-D20 version of D&D invented on the E.N. forum, and fell magic is nothing, but zaydos suggests that you might have meant Fell Drain. I still can't tell whether you are telling me to add that to my class in some way(other then giving the op. to take it as a bonus feat like I already have) or to make it so people can't take it. I am also, not sure what you meant by, "expand on the pathfinder cantripes?"

I am not trying to be rude but you are not being very clear, nor forthcoming when it comes to clarifying. That said it seems like you are rather experienced(especially if you are a regular on the EN forums) and I would like your help if you decide you would actually like to give it.



O.k. it seems like people are telling me that the class is still a bit weaker than where I would like it and that adding pathfinder style unlimited cantripes would be a good idea. as sutch I will be adding that. Second, I will add the casting of 1 ninth level spell at 20th. level to give at least some high level casting.

Thank you all for you help so far, and I look forward to your on going conciliation. :-)

Zaydos
2013-05-18, 10:30 AM
In that case at Lv 15 you can apply 10-12 negative levels with a standard action and no save or attack roll needed 3 times per day (Arcane Thesis Sonic Snap + Fell Drain + Technically Impressive Display to get it as still a 0 level effect and then throw in Surpassing Mastery) and another 2 as a swift action (Twin Spell) ~15 times per day. It is also possible for you to get it up to 20-24 negative levels with a standard action (requires Dragonblood subtype and 2 more feats to get Twin Spell to +0 metamagic or requires using +0 metamagic to get negative metamagic via Arcane Thesis which is stinky cheese).

Now compared to a wizard meant to do the same thing.

Enervation is there best bet. It'll take all their build but at Lv 15 they can cast 8th level spells and without the abuse of using +0 metamagic for -metamagic levels they can only get about 10 negative levels twice a day.

Now if the DM doesn't allow Arcane Thesis (which I don't) this class get much much weaker and ends up having to rely on its first level spells more. But Practical Metamagic can still get Fell Drain as a +0 for 10 to 12 negative levels 3/day at 15th level.

Thugorp
2013-05-18, 05:52 PM
Wow thanks. :-)

Zaydos
2013-05-18, 05:58 PM
Wow thanks. :-)

That was a quick estimate, I didn't do a whole build (which might get more on both sides) or use any heavy optimization (this is ONLY using feats at the moment)...

and just realized I neglected Maximized or Empowered which could get it up to 12 negative levels 5 times per day (6 feats just for this).

Thugorp
2013-05-18, 09:55 PM
O.k. I am rather sick today so I didn't make all of the changes I prommised yet. But I did make a major change to, "Technically Impressive Display." I changed it so it now works with all Minor Master spells instead of just 0 level spells. :-)

Hanuman
2013-05-22, 11:17 PM
The level 15 fell-stacking isn't too much of an issue as wizards after level 14 are already well on their journey to becoming a god that can kill the tarrasque without breaking a sweat, it's that the class allows this so early and it becomes so gimmicky that you're basically playing as a gattling laser that shoots negative levels for a good year by the time you hit level 15 (at least).

The point of this class is to use small tricks readily such as you would expect from a gnome holding a Bag of Tricks, the challenge is to design these tricks so you can use them in inventive ways rather than powerful ones.

Thugorp
2013-05-26, 11:33 AM
I would generally agree, though I mean, that's pretty inventive. I didn't think of it, plus the class was specifically designed to take advantage of meta-magic feats. This is too much cheese though?

If so, what should I do about it. Everyone else is telling me this class is too weak, and you are saying to strong. How would you suggest fixing it?

Thugorp
2013-05-26, 01:21 PM
Added new ability, "trying it out once," though I am not sure I like it. What do people think of it?

Zaydos
2013-05-26, 02:12 PM
Question: With practiced caster, at level 5 if I add a +2 level metamagic to a level 0 spell is it still automatically quickened?

The problem is that the class currently mostly just enables and demands negative level cheese. Unfortunately a wizard can still do it slightly better if they use the same type of cheese (although the wizard version requires ranged touch attack rolls and therefore has answers, your version requires Sonic damage which can also be answered with Sonic Resistance 5).

The real problem is that currently it leans itself into a single specific build which is too powerful for some games but ultimately requires cheesy use of metamagic reducers which break wizard and sorcerer too and leaves them with more varied low level capabilities.

Thugorp
2013-05-27, 07:43 PM
I would have to see the feats to answer your question for sure, but it might be important to remember that at level 5 all practiced caster does is negate the effects of attention to detail for 0-level spells. :-)

Hanuman
2013-06-27, 08:52 PM
After some thought (you're welcome ;p) I've got a solution.

First, limit the use of metamagic's combination with the rapidcasting.

Second, don't make this an E20 class, make it an E6. (Have only 6 levels in the class, not 20.)

Third, allow the choice of spell lists, casting stat and spell type to be chosen at level 1 so for instance you could have a Cha based cleric spell list and therefore divine, or an Int based sorc spell list therefore arcane.

Fourth, think about this being multiclassed at any level, at level 1, at level 5, 10 or 14, allow it's power to scale off of total caster levels of it's first level's type (from point 3), that way a Minor Master 3(Cha/Druid/Divine)/Druid10 would be a CL13 for it's minor master effects.

Basically what this class is about, is action economy. You want to allow the wizard to throw many tricks in quick succession, this doesn't mean turn them into a gattling gun, this means you're more like a tome of battle initiator except you're a caster.

Every 2 levels is worth an extra spell slot advancement, so every 2 levels allow metamagic cost to be decreased by 1 level slot and double that for level 0 spells when it comes to quickening them so that by 4th level it has no additional cost, just make sure that you don't synergize this with fell magic, twin magic, ect. Keep it in line with just what you want it to do.

At 6th level you basically want to be able to cast 3 level 0 spells in a turn, so allow it to make it a move or a swift action with no cost and no additional metamagic or feat effects, then add appropriate effect based on caster level covered above (balanced below a warlock's invocation for flat blasting reference purposes).

This allows the wizard to technically progress slower, but act as if it were going to be using it's highest slots for quickened casting anyway, making up for it with more sustained damage and effects and better use of the action economy, which makes it more in-line with a warlock or sorcerer easily.