Increasing spell area

[DeusMortuusEst]

Hi,

I'm looking for various ways of increasing the area of spells. The best would be if it is applicable to (almost) any area spell, like how Widen Spell works, but I'm also interested in any special cases.

I've been searching around, but so far I've been unable to find a thread on this subject, nor does the usual caster handbooks discuss it.

Feats, prcs, items, everything is fair game. The goal is to get a normal area spell (circle, cone, sphere) and make it as large as possible.

War weaver is not an option as I'm looking to attack, rather than buff/protect.

Any suggestions?

[ahenobarbi]

Sculpt spell can increase area of some spells.

[DeusMortuusEst]

Sculpt spell can increase area of some spells.

Ah, true, but I was more looking for something that makes it possible to cover a battlefield with a single spell... Guess there's nothing like that.

[ahenobarbi]

I can't think about anything that would allow that. You could Widen & Sudden Widen a spell to get x3 measurements (x9 surface).

I'm not sure but I think Sculpted, Widened, Sudden Widened spell would cover 12 30ft cubes (12*6*6=432 squares, 10800 square ft, 972 square m).

[NeoPhoenix0]

I can't think about anything that would allow that. You could Widen & Sudden Widen a spell to get x3 measurements (x9 surface).

I'm not sure but I think Sculpted, Widened, Sudden Widened spell would cover 12 30ft cubes (12*6*6=432 squares, 10800 square ft, 972 square m).

unfortunately sudden widen applies the effect of widen spell so sudden widen & widen don't stack they overlap because they are the same source.

edit: to be clear, while the last sentence of sudden widen can be taken to mean you can apply both feats it doesn't say they stack. this is important because untyped bonuses stack universally but not with themselves.

[ahenobarbi]

unfortunately sudden widen applies the effect of widen spell so sudden widen & widen don't stack they overlap because they are the same source.

Could you explain why? This is not a bonus so bonus stacking rules don;t apply here (I could see why DM might not allow this but I wonder what is RAW).

[NeoPhoenix0]

well if widen isn't a bonus and and you take this sentence
You can still use Widen Spell normally if you have it. to mean you can use both on the same spell i guess it is possible by RAW.

[HalfQuart]

I take the "You can still use Widen Spell normally if you have it." to just mean that you don't HAVE to use Sudden Widen... you can still prepare a spell with a slot 3 levels higher if you have the Widen Spell feat. And I think because Sudden Widen has the specific language "you can apply the effect of the Widen Spell feat..." in its basic description, you would not be able to apply both feats. Now if it just reproduce the language of Widen Spell, without specifically referencing it, I think you'd have a better argument.

[DeusMortuusEst]

Well, looks like there's not much to do then. Thanks for your help everyone! :smallsmile:

[Skysaber]

3rd party there are several options. Quintessential Elf gives us elvan high magic in the form of metamagic feats.

Massive Spell takes whatever area your spell once was and makes it one mile diameter, which ought to be sufficient for most purposes.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Morninglord of Lathander (PGtF) doubles the area of any spell you cast with the light descriptor for free.

[ArcturusV]

Another specific, niche one would be the Eunich Warlock. It's "Mighty Spell" lets you permanently increase a particular spell of your choice for no Spell Slot Adjustment. Since it's a different effect it can probably be finagled to be stacked up with other effects like Enlarge spell, Maximize Spell, Shape Spell, etc, Metamagic.