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dascarletm
2013-05-07, 12:06 AM
In the summon undead spells, (Libris Mortis) when it says medium skeleton, and small zombie or the like, does that mean I can summon any medium sized skeleton, or small zombie? Or, is it that I need to pick the options in the MM?
If I choose
How do we optimize this?
The Mentalist
2013-05-07, 05:13 AM
Libris Mortis comes from the days of 3.0 when skeletons were rated by size category and not as templates.

Talk to your DM.

If he allows you to pick: Badger for low cheese Wolverine is bigger and badder Badger, Demons/Devils/Celestials get good resists that they keep because they keep their subtypes. Chokers are 3hd smalls that by some definitions keep their extra actions.

If you want to break it Ithilid has 4 tentacle attacks, 2 claws (as a skeleton), and 8HD for Medium. Black Etherguant has 20HD but you lose all it's best features. Werecreatures, Other templates
Khedrac
2013-05-07, 06:18 AM
If you want to break it Ithilid has 4 tentacle attacks, 2 claws (as a skeleton)
I like it! However expect the DM to rule that (like cephlapods) there are no bones in the tentacles.

I wonder what happens by RAW if you try to make a mollusc into a skeleton?
Most molluscs probably class as vermin, but giant squid and octopi are pretty intelligent though totally boneless...

Hey - extending this, what about cartilaginous fish (sharks and rays) - no true boes there either!
The Mentalist
2013-05-07, 06:25 AM
I like it! However expect the DM to rule that (like cephlapods) there are no bones in the tentacles.


As a DM personally, I've always ruled that cartilage kept it's attacks but did nonlethal.
Khedrac
2013-05-07, 06:34 AM
Nice call - I will try to remember that one if it ever comes up.:smallsmile:
KillianHawkeye
2013-05-07, 07:29 AM
Libris Mortis comes from the days of 3.0 when skeletons were rated by size category and not as templates.

Libris Mortis is most definitely NOT from the days of 3.0. In fact, it was published over a full year into 3.5's run.

That being said, Spell Compendium updated the Summon Undead line with a chart of specific creatures at each level, not mere size categories.