Could use a hand with Epic PC creation...

[dr awesome phd]

Hey, folks!

My DM decided we're going to start a new campaign that will begin in epic levels (Specifically with the amount of XP required to vault us half way through level 25, the extra being available toward item crafting or LA buy-back). It has been a very long time since I've played anything in epic, and wasn't sure what to throw together. I ended up deciding that I would play something I never actually play... a 'skill-monkey' style Rogue of some kind or another. I like the idea of toying with UMD, so that'll probably be a thing involved somewhere.

The only restrictions I've been given so far are a specific starting stat array, and that I can not use the 'gem-socket' items from the Magic Item Compendium. Aside from that, just about everything is fair game. I was wondering if anyone had some ideas as far as what direction I should go with a build and/or how to effectively purchase the starting equipment for something like this because I have no idea where to start with 2.1(ish) million gold.

The stat array will be 18, 17, 15, 14, 12, 10.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[The Mentalist]

Factotum 8 (Dungeonscape) is the start of that build. Extra Standard actions for great justice and the best skill monkey on the books.

If you want to go UMD abuse Artificer (EbCS) into the Wand Master (MoE) is not a bad way to go, especially with the amount of money you get in epic.

Equipment really needs to come after you get a build narrowed down as equipment serves the character but a few musts are a Belt of Battle (MiC) (extra full-round action once a day, or three move actions, or a standard and a move action) Heward's Handy Haversack (DMG), (and yes, it has to be a Handy Haversack, the decreased action to pull an item makes it useful, store things you'll need less frequently in a Portable Hole if you need too (or even better an Enveloping Pit (MiC) via UMD)

Read this: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101
And this: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4400

And with 2.1 million gold buy both. They'll cost you less than 100k total.

I personally start with a concept and build from there so what do you want your character to be first and we'll figure out how to make that most mechanically advantageous. (But as a skillmonkey, any skill monkey, Factotum 8 is a must)

[dr awesome phd]

Faster reply than I expected. To answer that question, I was actually leaning more toward an actual Rogue. I say this because I've basically never made one, and I thought that just grabbing a couple of daggers and hoping sneak-attacks would get me there was a little too boring, hence the introduction of the 'skill-monkey' idea. Don't get me wrong, not abandoning the sneaky flank-bot side so much as I wanted to make a Rogue with some depth... the problem is more that I don't know enough about it, or making Epic Characters for that matter, to know where to start.

[Sith_Happens]

Unseen Seer, perhaps?

[The Mentalist]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156350 Our very own Rogue's Handbook.

In addition let me grab my Epic Level Handbook and we'll get this party started.

Edit:
Epic Feat 1: Sneak Attack of Opportunity
Epic Feat 2: Improved Combat Reflexes

You may now make an infinite number of AoOs per round and all of them are sneak attacks. This can be remarkably useful.

Edit 2: A +1 Everdancing Dagger (or even a lot of them at 162k each) also makes you your own Flanking buddy and they can sneak attack on their own.

[dr awesome phd]

Was going through that Rogue Guide, really awesome pointers. I don't actually have ToB at the moment, so I'll have to fish around for a copy, but aside from that there were quite a few interesting ideas.

[The Mentalist]

As for skill-monkeying it's mostly in the minor items that you'll get your best benefit. I don't think epic really has much that's all that good for utility items but I will continue to look.

Edit 1: A Gate Key is infinite teleportation to 60 locations for 378k

[dr awesome phd]

Much appreciated. I've actually got to crash for the night, but I'll check back tomorrow. Thanks again!

[Carth]

Rogue1/wizard2/rogue+2/unseen seer 10/arcane trickster 10

Gets plenty of sneak attack dice and skill points. You'll want to use unseen seer's ability to learn non-wizard divination spells to grab the hunter's eye spell, from Player's Handbook 2. As a swift action it grants you CL/3 more sneak attack dice for a round. Peruse this thread (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872350/Raising_Caster_Level) for ways to boost your caster level, you should be able to get to 30, allowing you to do 10 more sneak attack dice as a swift action.

[graymachine]

A couple of random suggestions:

1. Make sure you dip something that gets familiars so that you can take an item familiar for heinous skill bonus fun.

2. Obviously max your INT, but keep in mind that the magic item bonus limitations increase for epic items.

3. Be aware of all of the pseudo-supernatural effects you can achieve with high skill checks, i.e. with a high enough Bluff check you can lie to the universe about your alignment.

4. Epic combat really is like playing tag with rocket launchers: whoever goes first typically wins. You need to maximize your initiative bonus as much as possible simply as a survival tactic.

5. Don't feel nervous about cheese (such as the above infinite sneak attack combo.) Epic is inherently cheesy and you will need a moderate amount of it to survive.

6. Expect to die. As implied above, if you lose initiative, you probably die. If you don't have a cleric in the party at least pay out for a few contingency resurrections on you. Probably a good idea even if you have a cleric. Also, keep a record of what your character looks like at lower levels for ease of reference.

7. You seem to want to stick closely to rogue, so you should be as worried about LA as casters are; look for highly advantageous templates. Also, since you want sneak attack, find a way to get HiPS.

8. Implied earlier, but at Epic levels, you pretty much need some kind of casting ability to supplement you abilities. Look for synergizing PrCs that are going to get you ~5th level casting.

9. Work a lot on your magic items; if you can work out ways to get effects you want cheaper, do that. While you do have a lot of money, you need to squeeze every ounce of utility out of it you can, since you aren't a primary caster.

10. Look into Diplomancy.

11. Keep two character sheets: one with you character's stats after prep time and one without prep time.

12. Keep in mind any casting class you dip into opens up that class spell list for magic items you can use without a UMD check; your a skill monkey, so you probably won't worry about UMD checks anyway, but you might be able to shave a few points off of UMD that could go elsewhere.

13-20. Maximize your initiative.

[Phelix-Mu]

Good stealth/utility items in Epic Level Handbook:

- Boots of Swiftness (256k gp): Moves the Dex-item to the substantially less crowded foot slot, counts as ring of evasion (good, cause there are many good rings for casters) if you want to trade that class feature, mad movement skill bonuses, haste 3/day for 20 rounds each, and IT DOUBLES YOUR SPEED. These are awesome, imho.

- Mantle of Great Stealth (242k gp): constant effect blur, unnamed +30 bonus to Hide and Move Silently, and constant non-detection. Nice, because it will stack with the standard competence bonus items from the DMG.

Other good things (many of which probably already mentioned or in the guide):

- Dark template via the magic item that grants it in Tome of Magic.

- Craven feat from Champions of Ruin

If you dip arcane (some spellcasting is advisable, if only to add options):

- Celestial Familiar if you are good-aligned to get a coure eladrin...some crazy good stealth options as it has an incorporeal alternate form that it has at will access to.

- Get the familiar class feature from Wizard, trade it for an ACF, then take the Obtain Familiar feat from Complete Arcane (strategically better than the Wizard class feature). The utility of an actual familiar for a rogue is pretty high, even if only for flanking. With UMD tricks and a raven/Improved Familiar/Celestial Familiar/etc, there are options for turning the familiar into a buffstick with wands and such, and there are practically innumerable tricks with the Share Spells familiar ability. Feats may be tight, though, especially pre-epic, but I find familiars to be win.

- If you dip Wizard, and unless you need or plan to use Scribe Scroll a lot or need it to qualify for something, consider the Martial Wizard variant, which allows you to trade the bonus feats from Wizard for any feat on the Fighter bonus feat list. The utility of Scribe Scroll is great, but anyone contemplating melee at epic levels should be squeezing maximum bang-for-buck out of every feat.

- Finally, ever heard of whisper gnomes? They are the LA+0 kings of stealth, introduced in Races of Stone. Well worth a gander. Especially at epic levels, there is NO drawback to being Small, and many benefits.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Spellthief 1/ StP Erudite 4/ Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) 4/ Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) 9/ Psionic adaptation Abjurant Champion 5/ Psychic Assassin 2

Get Mind Cripple from Psychic Assassin. Take Practiced Manifester, Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm), Psicrystal Affinity, the TWF tree, Extend/Persistent Power, etc. The HP damage you deal is irrelevant, Mind Cripple deals 2 Int damage per hit when you sneak attack, so four attacks from BAB plus a Speed weapon, plus Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, gives you ten attacks for 20 Int damage per round.

Always have Share Pain manifest on your psicrystal, and keep it in a compartment on your person that opponents never have line of sight/effect to. Keep persistent buffs like Force Screen, Psionic Freedom of Movement, Schism, Wraithstrike, etc. Your Schism can manifest Timeless Body every round, and then on your turn it ends and your buffs resume for your full attack, then it manifests it again.

Your item familiar should be a ring which you wear a glove or gauntlet over so opponents never have line of sight/effect to it. Item familiars are intelligent items, which are treated as constructs, and constructs cannot be disabled or destroyed by dispelling or disjoining and continue to function in antimagic and dead magic areas.

[Urpriest]

A couple of random suggestions:

1. Make sure you dip something that gets familiars so that you can take an item familiar for heinous skill bonus fun.


Item Familiars have nothing to do with regular familiars. You can't even have the same thing fill both roles.

[graymachine]

Item Familiars have nothing to do with regular familiars. You can't even have the same thing fill both roles.

Oops, sorry. I haven't thumbed through 3.5 books in a few years, so I simply misremembered. Closest I get to gaming nowadays is lurking on boards, offering (inaccurate) advice.:smalleek:

At any rate, following the link to Item Familiar posted by Biffoniacus, it is well worth it, even beyond the skill point boosting.

Everything else I suggested seems accurate. I think.

[Medic!]

Biggest thing I see people forget about when going into an epic level game is purchasing your inherent stat bonuses.

[herrhauptmann]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156350 Our very own Rogue's Handbook.

In addition let me grab my Epic Level Handbook and we'll get this party started.

Edit:
Epic Feat 1: Sneak Attack of Opportunity
Epic Feat 2: Improved Combat Reflexes

You may now make an infinite number of AoOs per round and all of them are sneak attacks. This can be remarkably useful.

There's another version of Improved Combat reflexes in dragon mag, it's a little less sexy, but it allows an iterative on your AOOs. Also Greater combat reflexes.

Is there likely to be a lot of enemies that are vulnerable to negative levels? (Some games it stops after level 12, others it lasts for longer) If so, take the life-drinker weapon enchantment and put it on each of your weapons. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#lifeDrinker
Now just need soulfire armor (BoED) which you would probably want anywy to protect you. 2 negative levels every hit.

If you're not a caster, I'd recommend the mageslayer line of feats. If you are a caster, I'd suggest taking abjurant champ and still taking the mageslayer feats. Take a -12 to your CL, then reset your CL to your BAB with AC5.(which might include our Epic AB as well, ask the DM)

[graymachine]

Biggest thing I see people forget about when going into an epic level game is purchasing your inherent stat bonuses.

Yeah, a lot of people forget it. I would suggest getting it from a Wish spell that you pay for six individual castings of, rather than purchasing the books. It should be cheaper, since the books mostly exist as treasure padding for people adventuring through the higher end of the first 20 levels.

[ericgrau]

As a skillmonkey you should know the epic skill usages. That said, they aren't that great compared to magic. Many even imitate 0 through 2nd level spells. I'd pick the best and craziest 1 or 2 to focus on, remembering feats and magic items to boost them, then get a normal modifier in the rest of your skills.

As for what to buy you're a bit of a utility character and you're crazy rich, so buy everything. You have the money and the use magic device modifier to use staffs and wands with up to 9th level spells. And at epic level you really should. A large variety of utility scrolls of 1st to about 4th level are nice too. Go down the list in the DMG and/or Magic Item Compendium and get a large number of wondrous items up to about 10,000 gp in price. There are a handful of nice utility rings and rods too. A mantra for a few of my characters has been "I have an item for that..."

It might be a little early but I consider Armor of the Celestial Battalion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/armor.htm#armoroftheCelestialBattalion) to be almost standard issue for epic characters, especially those with a decent dexterity. Highest AC, always-on flight, charm/domination immunity not only for you but for nearby allies and random people you meet, and almost non-existant penalties and restrictions.

[graymachine]

As a skillmonkey you should know the epic skill usages. That said, they aren't that great compared to magic. Many even imitate 0 through 2nd level spells. I'd pick the best and craziest 1 or 2 to focus on, remembering feats and magic items to boost them, then get a normal modifier in the rest of your skills.

As for what to buy you're a bit of a utility character and you're crazy rich, so buy everything. You have the money and the use magic device modifier to use staffs and wands with up to 9th level spells. And at epic level you really should. A large variety of utility scrolls of 1st to about 4th level are nice too. Go down the list in the DMG and/or Magic Item Compendium and get a large number of wondrous items up to about 10,000 gp in price. There are a handful of nice utility rings and rods too. A mantra for a few of my characters has been "I have an item for that..."

It might be a little early but I consider Armor of the Celestial Battalion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/armor.htm#armoroftheCelestialBattalion) to be almost standard issue for epic characters, especially those with a decent dexterity. Highest AC, always-on flight, charm/domination immunity not only for you but for nearby allies and random people you meet, and almost non-existant penalties and restrictions.

Well, Diplomacy has the best uses for Epic skill level, but that depends on how much the DM allows Diplomancy abuse. Bluff and UMD are a distant second.

EDIT: Oh, and on the magic item front, take Leadership to get a crafting cohort so that you can buy your items at cost rather than at book price.